Which countries are "The West"

[Nizark]

Hey, this is a silly question, but can someone list who exactly is incorporated in 'The West' these days? I mean, with alliances going every which way, countries being bought off for their support, old rivalries coming up again and so on, who exactly is 'the west' besides the US and UK? I am probably thinking too much like an American, but when groups like Al qaeda say they want to destroy the west and israel, im curious, who is on our team?

[EvanL]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

[Sayeret]

I always thought Europe, Israel, New Zealand, and Australia were considered part of the West.

[moughoun]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

That would be allof Europe ;)

[EvanL]

I always thought Europe, Israel, New Zealand, and Australia were considered part of the West.
Technically Israel is considered the west in terms of its ideals. BUt its sort of out of place in the west in terms of itys inner conflicts. I really dont know. Its something to think about.

[EvanL]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

That would be allof Europe ;)
I woudlnt consider a country like Romania or Moldovia to be considered part of the west. thats why i stated Western Europe as opposed to all of Europe.

[moughoun]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

That would be allof Europe ;)
I woudlnt consider a country like Romania or Moldovia to be considered part of the west. thats why i stated Western Europe as opposed to all of Europe.

The Romanian's might take exception to that, they are joining the EU in 2007

[EvanL]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

That would be allof Europe ;)
I woudlnt consider a country like Romania or Moldovia to be considered part of the west. thats why i stated Western Europe as opposed to all of Europe.

The Romanian's might take exception to that, they are joining the EU in 2007
Yeh but there are still Europes poorest country arent they?

[Secret Squirrel]

"The west" is kind of an outdated cold war term. On one side you had "the west" and the other side you had "the cold front". Terrorists use it to refer to "western ideas" like democracy, among other characteristics.

[Khabbi]

North America ,Europe , Israel ( isnt Israel in europe ? ) , NZ and OZ .

[rafaelcb]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

That would be allof Europe ;)
I woudlnt consider a country like Romania or Moldovia to be considered part of the west. thats why i stated Western Europe as opposed to all of Europe.

The Romanian's might take exception to that, they are joining the EU in 2007
Yeh but there are still Europes poorest country arent they?

No. Albania is much poorer. Bulgaria is about the same as Rumania. I don't know exactly about the ex-yugoslavia countries, but I think Serbia and Bosnia also have big economic problems.

Anyway, the most 'west' of all EU countries is of course Portugal... Or should we consider Iceland as part of Europe?

[EvanL]

What aboiut countries like Japan, SIngapore, Taiwan, SK? All countries with high GDP. Are they also considered the west?

[n4292936]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

That would be allof Europe ;)
gotta agree with Moughoun on that one, all of Europe.
Aus and NZ are a bit trickier. NZ is geographically more of the south pacific (like Tahiti and New Caledonia) than the west, and Aus is between that and southeast asia. In terms of their values and cultural heritage however, they are both part of "the west".

One thing I dont like about the current Aus government is that they seem content to ignore geographic realities. Keating handled regional relations better, regardless of the public's sentiments on the issue

What aboiut countries like Japan, SIngapore, Taiwan, SK? All countries with high GDP. Are they also considered the west?gdp has nothing to do with how western a country is. None of those countries are even remotely western. "The West" in common parlance is used to denote cultural affinities, not geography per se.

[EvanL]

They probably speak of the west as in he Wests Ideals. Mainly countries in Western Europe and North America including Australia.
*edit
And New Zealand ;)

That would be allof Europe ;)
gotta agree with Moughoun on that one, all of Europe.
Aus and NZ are a bit trickier. NZ is geographically more of the south pacific (like Tahiti and New Caledonia) than the west, and Aus is between that and southeast asia. In terms of their values and cultural heritage however, they are both part of "the west".

One thing I dont like about the current Aus government is that they seem content to ignore geographic realities. Keating handled regional relations better, regardless of the public's sentiments on the issue

What aboiut countries like Japan, SIngapore, Taiwan, SK? All countries with high GDP. Are they also considered the west?gdp has nothing to do with how western a country is. None of those countries are even remotely western.
But after WW2, wasnt Japan sort of softly persuaded to turn Western? It would explain their fascination with every that is and in some cases "Isnt" western. Ala baseball, pop music, blue jeans.....Super fun happy hour!

[Gatling]

I'm sorry , I don't know how to say it differently, but all the countries predominantly populated by white people. In the case of Israel though , I 'm not sure.

[n4292936]

Super fun happy hour, and other stuff like that, as cool as they are, are more cultural exports and the legacy of the post war occupation that the result of a concerted effort on the part of the Japanese to turn western. Their culture is incredibly distinct from anything western, their values are distinct, their diet is distinct, the style of diplomacy is distinct. Japan is one of the countries most radically different to the west in my humble opinion..... and the road-side food stalls in Korea are much better than any ive found in the states. That counts for alot you know p-)

[FallenAngel]

Any country with a McDonalds with 24 hour drive through. :lol:

[Ichhabe]

As an European living in western-Europe I have to agre with EvanLloyd on this one. Israel is partly a semi western-European country, but belonging in Asia.

Western-Europe has today it's eastern boarder on Polands east boarder. But Moldovia, Serbia and Albania? Forget it...

[futurepilot2004]

Israel is in the middle east ,not Europe. If you say that Israel is in Europe you might as well say the Lebanon, Jordan ,Syria etc etc are too. I would consider it part of the western world though.

[LordHalbert]

Any country that has a Starbucks woot

[moughoun]

Israel is in the middle east ,not Europe. If you say that Israel is in Europe you might as well say the Lebanon, Jordan ,Syria etc etc are too. I would consider it part of the western world though.

Yes, but Isreal, Morroco, and Lebanon, have asked to be considered for EU membership

[moughoun]

Any country that has a Starbucks woot

There are no starbucks in Ireland, we must be highly civilised ;)

[FDF_Hemppis]

Any country that has a Starbucks woot

In that case, Finland doesn't qualify :(

[futurepilot2004]

who needs starbucks when you have Bewleys :D

[Fee Fi Fo Fum]

Any country that has a Starbucks woot

There are no starbucks in Ireland, we must be highly civilised ;)

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2004/0218/3671441938HM1STARBUCKS.html

[moughoun]

Any country that has a Starbucks woot

There are no starbucks in Ireland, we must be highly civilised ;)

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2004/0218/3671441938HM1STARBUCKS.html

why does it suddenly feel like one of those 50s b-movies, with the unstoppable monster comming to get you p-)

[moughoun]

who needs starbucks when you have Bewleys :D

that was untill they stopped selling buns :(

[foxtrot023]

¨The West¨ is any country whose main cultural roots come from greco-roman ideals, including:

Alphabet,
Democracy or republic political systems, similar law systems (either the germanic or roman type systems)
Calendar,
Common History,
Christian religion
etc.

Hence this includes only Western and some central European countries, North and South America, NZ and Australia. Israel, even if it is westernized does not share calendar, religion nor alphabet with the West, likewise for some eastern europe nations (alphabet mainly- cirilic).

This term was mostly used in the cold war to refer to Nato countries. Currently, using the term West is outdated.

Regards,

[StarvingStudent47]

In my experience, "the west" actually refers to "people with pale skin." I'm not saying that's a GOOD definition, but that's what I see when people refer to "the west."

*Western geographic location means nothing, because Latin America rarely springs to mind when people talk about "the west," yet Israel IS included, despite being in the Middle East.
*Modern culture means nothing, because Japan is rarely thought of when people talk about "the west," despite their ultra-modern, highly-Americanized pop culture.
*Religion means nothing, because Christian countries in Africa are not thought of when people say "the west."

In the post-cold war world, I think "the west" is a PC-sounding way of saying "pale people." I'm not saying that's right; I'm just saying that's how it works.

[StarvingStudent47]

¨The West¨ is any country whose main cultural roots come from greco-roman ideals, including:

Alphabet,
Democracy or republic political systems, similar law systems (either the germanic or roman type systems)
Calendar,
Common History,
Christian religion
etc.

Hence this includes only Western and some central European countries, North and South America, NZ and Australia. Israel, even if it is westernized does not share calendar, religion nor alphabet with the West, likewise for some eastern europe nations (alphabet mainly- cirilic).

This term was mostly used in the cold war to refer to Nato countries. Currently, using the term West is outdated.

Regards,

Uh...Israel isn't Christian. Nor do they use the Latin alphabet.

[bloddyaxe]

Anyway, the most 'west' of all EU countries is of course Portugal... Or should we consider Iceland as part of Europe?

Do people really think that Iceland isn't in Europe? Iceland certainly isn't in America... although geologically Iceland is part of both...

[StarvingStudent47]

Anyway, the most 'west' of all EU countries is of course Portugal... Or should we consider Iceland as part of Europe?

Do people really think that Iceland isn't in Europe? Iceland certainly isn't in America... although geologically Iceland is part of both...

Here in the USA Iceland is DEFINITELY part of Europe. Greenland is a bit iffy (not that anyone really gives much thought to Greenland in general), but Iceland is European.

[foxtrot023]

In my experience, "the west" actually refers to "people with pale skin." I'm not saying that's a GOOD definition, but that's what I see when people refer to "the west."

Western geographic location means nothing, because Latin America rarely springs to mind when people talk about "the west," yet Israel IS included, despite being in the Middle East.

Modern culture means nothing, because Japan is rarely thought of when people talk about "the west," despite their ultra-modern, highly-Americanized pop culture.

Religion means nothing, because Christian countries in Africa (such as Liberia) are not thought of when people say "the west."

In the post-cold war world, I think "the west" is a PC-sounding way of saying "pale people." I'm not saying that's right; I'm just saying that's how it works.

Mainly the West was the original catch phrase to include all cultures that come from the greco roman branch, and is a combination of factors. AS you mention, The west is an outdated misconcept.

[foxtrot023]

¨The West¨ is any country whose main cultural roots come from greco-roman ideals, including:

Alphabet,
Democracy or republic political systems, similar law systems (either the germanic or roman type systems)
Calendar,
Common History,
Christian religion
etc.

Hence this includes only Western and some central European countries, North and South America, NZ and Australia. Israel, even if it is westernized does not share calendar, religion nor alphabet with the West, likewise for some eastern europe nations (alphabet mainly- cirilic).

This term was mostly used in the cold war to refer to Nato countries. Currently, using the term West is outdated.

Regards,

Uh...Israel isn't Christian. Nor do they use the Latin alphabet.

That is why, the original term The West did not applied to Israel, whereas Israel is included now in it.

The easiest way to find The West now a days isto look for the list of countries forming the OECD.

Regards

[Fee Fi Fo Fum]

Anyway, the most 'west' of all EU countries is of course Portugal... Or should we consider Iceland as part of Europe?

Do people really think that Iceland isn't in Europe? Iceland certainly isn't in America... although geologically Iceland is part of both...

Here in the USA Iceland is DEFINITELY part of Europe. Greenland is a bit iffy (not that anyone really gives much thought to Greenland in general), but Iceland is European.

lol, funny you should say that, because Greenland is part of North America....

[Argyll]

Hey, this is a silly question, but can someone list who exactly is incorporated in 'The West' these days? I mean, with alliances going every which way, countries being bought off for their support, old rivalries coming up again and so on, who exactly is 'the west' besides the US and UK? I am probably thinking too much like an American, but when groups like Al qaeda say they want to destroy the west and israel, im curious, who is on our team?

easy.........all those not in the East!!

[scott]

As Foxtrot says, West is an archaic term from the Cold War.
I generally use Global North versus Global South.
(Yes and Aust, NZ etc count as Global North countries, dont ask why)

[n4292936]

Anyway, the most 'west' of all EU countries is of course Portugal... Or should we consider Iceland as part of Europe?

Do people really think that Iceland isn't in Europe? Iceland certainly isn't in America... although geologically Iceland is part of both...

Here in the USA Iceland is DEFINITELY part of Europe. Greenland is a bit iffy (not that anyone really gives much thought to Greenland in general), but Iceland is European.

lol, funny you should say that, because Greenland is part of North America....
In strictly geographical terms Greenland is not part of the continent of North America. It is the largest Island on the planet and is seperated from NA by distinct geological features that provide the islands geogrpahical identity.... if you follow.

[OB Kenobi]

West = Roman
East = Byzantine, Asian, barbarian

[Nizark]

Good debate so far...any countries in africa or south america count?

[Fee Fi Fo Fum]

Anyway, the most 'west' of all EU countries is of course Portugal... Or should we consider Iceland as part of Europe?

Do people really think that Iceland isn't in Europe? Iceland certainly isn't in America... although geologically Iceland is part of both...

Here in the USA Iceland is DEFINITELY part of Europe. Greenland is a bit iffy (not that anyone really gives much thought to Greenland in general), but Iceland is European.

lol, funny you should say that, because Greenland is part of North America....
In strictly geographical terms Greenland is not part of the continent of North America. It is the largest Island on the planet and is seperated from NA by distinct geological features that provide the islands geogrpahical identity.... if you follow.

My geography teacher begs to differ, from what ive learned in school Greenland is part of north america, look at this

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/glnewz.gif

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/gl.htm

[bloddyaxe]

In strictly geographical terms Greenland is not part of the continent of North America.
http://blueox.uoregon.edu/~courses/BrauImages/Chap07/FG07_016.jpg

This picture displays the continental shelves/plates... And as can be seen on it Greenland is on the same plate... Iceland however is half on the American plate and the other half on the Eurasian... these are of course geological terms... not geographical.... but whatever...

[moughoun]

Greenland is a protectorate of Denmark, it usedto be run from there untillthe were givin autonomy

[n4292936]

righto, but its not the extent of tectonic plates that dictates whether a piece of land is a part of a continent. For example, that would mean that most of Cuba was part of North America but that part of western Canada wasn't (Im refering to the Juan Defuca plate which abutts Canada near Vancouver). Similarly the MidOceanic Ridge that extends from Iceland southward is the demarcation point between two major plates, but you'll notice on the above pictures that (not including the Caribean plate above Venuzuela) there is not demarcation point between SA and NA. Clearly Brazil isnt part of Noth America. Britain is part of the European plate but is an island and is therefore not considered part of the continent. In a similar way, Greenland may be tectonicaly related to NA but geographically isnt. Neither are Australia and India part of the same continent despite being tectonically related.

[GAFES]

I THINK THAT WHEN ''alqaeda'' REFERS TO THE WEST, THEY MEAN THE UNITED SATES and its allies ( ISRAEL, CANADA AND UK), BUT MAINLY THE US. WICH IS WRONG TO GENERALIZE WEST, ALL THE AMERICAN CONTINEN IS WEST.

:)

[moughoun]

righto, but its not the extent of tectonic plates that dictates whether a piece of land is a part of a continent. For example, that would mean that most of Cuba was part of North America but that part of western Canada wasn't (Im refering to the Juan Defuca plate which abutts Canada near Vancouver). Similarly the MidOceanic Ridge that extends from Iceland southward is the demarcation point between two major plates, but you'll notice on the above pictures that (not including the Caribean plate above Venuzuela) there is not demarcation point between SA and NA. Clearly Brazil isnt part of Noth America. Britain is part of the European plate but is an island and is therefore not considered part of the continent. In a similar way, Greenland may be tectonicaly related to NA but geographically isnt. Neither are Australia and India part of the same continent despite being tectonically related.

My God man, did you swallow the text book's on every subject!! p-)

[n4292936]

righto, but its not the extent of tectonic plates that dictates whether a piece of land is a part of a continent. For example, that would mean that most of Cuba was part of North America but that part of western Canada wasn't (Im refering to the Juan Defuca plate which abutts Canada near Vancouver). Similarly the MidOceanic Ridge that extends from Iceland southward is the demarcation point between two major plates, but you'll notice on the above pictures that (not including the Caribean plate above Venuzuela) there is not demarcation point between SA and NA. Clearly Brazil isnt part of Noth America. Britain is part of the European plate but is an island and is therefore not considered part of the continent. In a similar way, Greenland may be tectonicaly related to NA but geographically isnt. Neither are Australia and India part of the same continent despite being tectonically related.

My God man, did you swallow the text book's on every subject!! p-)
one of my undergraduate degrees is in envrionmental science with a focus on Geology...... I took a long time to decide what I really wanted to study and so canvassed lots of subjects. I've been learning all my life :cantbeli:

[n4292936]

on a final note, Greenland is part of the Canadian Shield and so geologically is part of North America, Geographically (geography having to do with geomorphology, thereby taking into account sea boundaries) it is not. Depends on definitions I suppose.

[moughoun]

righto, but its not the extent of tectonic plates that dictates whether a piece of land is a part of a continent. For example, that would mean that most of Cuba was part of North America but that part of western Canada wasn't (Im refering to the Juan Defuca plate which abutts Canada near Vancouver). Similarly the MidOceanic Ridge that extends from Iceland southward is the demarcation point between two major plates, but you'll notice on the above pictures that (not including the Caribean plate above Venuzuela) there is not demarcation point between SA and NA. Clearly Brazil isnt part of Noth America. Britain is part of the European plate but is an island and is therefore not considered part of the continent. In a similar way, Greenland may be tectonicaly related to NA but geographically isnt. Neither are Australia and India part of the same continent despite being tectonically related.



My God man, did you swallow the text book's on every subject!! p-)
one of my undergraduate degrees is in envrionmental science with a focus on Geology...... I took a long time to decide what I really wanted to study and so canvassed lots of subjects. I've been learning all my life :cantbeli:

We should just have a special section in here, "ask n429", it would be great, you could charge :D

[n4292936]

rofl Thanks Moughoun, but ummmm I dont think so ;) The most valuable thing that all my education has taught me is that in the grand scheme of things, I dont know ****! There's so much to learn and understand and the human mind can grasp but a fraction of it. I know I know very little.

[digrar]

Where does South Africa fit in the great scheme of things. While there is a white minority, they did run the southern tip of the Continent for a few hundred years untill recently.
When I think of the West, I still think West of the Berlin wall, North America and Australia (with the Shakey Isles to our east :P ).

[n4292936]

I guess it has most to do with heritage, cultural values, and worldviews. Those things are shared by most of EU, all of north America, Aus, NZ, UK, and a very few others. As of now, given South Africa's cultural and political alignment with the rest of subsaharan Africa I would say its not part of the west - though it may have once been if you discount the views of the majority in that country.

[achilles]

rofl Thanks Moughoun, but ummmm I dont think so ;) The most valuable thing that all my education has taught me is that in the grand scheme of things, I dont know ****! There's so much to learn and understand and the human mind can grasp but a fraction of it. I know I know very little.

I know I know very little

The first step towards wisdom lol paradoxical isnt it?

The ancient Greek philosophers smiled in their graves after they read your post ;) ..." "...so true bud...no matter how much you study, you still feel like you know sh**...and its true!

εν ειδα οτι ουδεν ειδα (Socrates)=i ve seen one thing...that i have seen none (lousy translation but so much i can do)

[n4292936]

my other undergrad was in Philosophy ;) woot

[achilles]

my other undergrad was in Philosophy ;) woot

Thought so ;) Is there anything you havent studied? That maybe a shorter list :D

[n4292936]

I find the world an interesting place, what can I say :D
Im sure Im not alone on that score.

[achilles]

I find the world an interesting place, what can I say :D
Im sure Im not alone on that score.

Alone? Not at all ;)

As for who is part of the 'west'...i think the west is gradually being defined culturally rather than geographically. A good example is Japan. Its the definition of the 'far east' and their tradition is based on the honour in the samurai sense (in theory). Yet their 'national' sport can be claimed to be baseball (!?), they have starbucks, mcdonalds and burger king all over the place. They also want to look like westerners...hair, dressing style...almost everything...
All in all, it seems as if we will end up living within a global 'westernized' monoculture (allow me the term) which will be geographically divided in the good old North-South-East-West way...i prefer to define the west in terms of life-style and mentality..its more real than location itself...the middle-east is closer to the west than Japan...but Japan is more 'west' than the middle-east no matter what any compass might say...

Jim Morisson (1944-1971): "The west...is the best..." ;)

[mobster]

I find the world an interesting place, what can I say Very Happy
Im sure Im not alone on that score.

All I can tell you when you travel big time, take an IPod, a change of socks (even though they offer them to you), and a portable DVD player. Don't bring your own, rent them at the airport. Drink alot and get used to jet lag, that is what sucks the most. Also, tip everybody like it's you last day on earth, people respond better to you whether your at the bar, or coach or 1st class.

[n4292936]

Radio Korean Airlines and a good Wyndham book have always served me well while travelling ;)

Thanks for the advice, but it kinda came outa left field. ???

[ikurinturbiini]

Where does South Africa fit in the great scheme of things. While there is a white minority, they did run the southern tip of the Continent for a few hundred years untill recently.

Colonial SA = West, ruled by Anglos. Christian and capitalist.
Apartheid SA = Nominally and politically West but distinctively African, ruled by Boers, the White Tribe of Africa. Christian and capitalist but governed by people with medieval values and siege mentality.
New SA = African, ruled by ANC, but still the most Western place in Africa. Could go either way. Could go really bad. Could be next Zimbabwe.

One easy definition of West: White but not Russia. That about covers it.

[Nizark]

Holy mother of crap, did i see a posting on techtonic plates?

hahahaha, all i asked for was a list.

[Grimmer]

You should more like trying to describe western people and culture than trying to locate continents.

What is a western man?

He is usually a bit over 180cm(5.91 Feet) tall and weights about 85kg.
He has pale white skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Alltought the hair and eye colour can vary, like height and weight.

He is christian and uses roman alphabet. He's ideals are from ancient greek. He believes in democracy, equalship of sex, freedom of speach, choice and religion. He is a freeman and has no other authority than a god itself.
He believes that his duty is to serve humanity, promote freedom and to help those who are weak and poor.

[Kriz]

You should more like trying to describe western people and culture than trying to locate continents.

What is a western man?

He is usually a bit over 180cm(5.91 Feet) tall and weights about 85kg.
He has pale white skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Alltought the hair and eye colour can vary, like height and weight.

He is christian and uses roman alphabet. He's ideals are from ancient greek. He believes in democracy, equalship of sex, freedom of speach, choice and religion. He is a freeman and has no other authority than a god itself.
He believes that his duty is to serve humanity, promote freedom and to help those who are weak and poor.

NO auther authority then god himself rofl The only authority is the state and it's laws in any decent western country. Seems you have never heard of separation of religion and state.

[n4292936]

You should more like trying to describe western people and culture than trying to locate continents.

What is a western man?

He is usually a bit over 180cm(5.91 Feet) tall and weights about 85kg.
He has pale white skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Alltought the hair and eye colour can vary, like height and weight.

He is christian and uses roman alphabet. He's ideals are from ancient greek. He believes in democracy, equalship of sex, freedom of speach, choice andreligion. He is a freeman and has no other authority than a god itself.
He believes that his duty is to serve humanity, promote freedom and to help those who are weak and poor. then Im definitely not a western man. :( sorry fellas

[Loco]

What is a western man?

He is usually a bit over 180cm(5.91 Feet) tall and weights about 85kg.
He has pale white skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Alltought the hair and eye colour can vary, like height and weight.
:roll: I think this it´s more like a I-wannabe-like-that. Greeks of ancient and modern Greece time didn´t look like that, btw, included those who compited in Olympia, and I think greeks were those who began this thing called "the west". I coincide with those that think that "western" it´s a bit outdated word, but "western" would mean people who share culture with common roots (Greek-Roman heritance plus jew religious influence), and the defense of a democratic way of living. Note that marxist inspired regimens and secular totalitarian governments are fruits of western countries too, but they don´t define what westerners defend. And of course, definitions musn´t be ethnocentrist, in this case anglo-centered, of course many southamericans countries fit definitions of western countries, I´d include countries like Chile, Argentina or Uruguay that are like extensions of europe in that continent in all senses: most of people came from western europe, they have and they share the roman-greek heritance..

[oldsoak]

Picked this up a bit late . West can be used to mean geographic west - which is daft , because if you went far enough west, you end up coming home via the east. Its common usage is to mean European and democratic nations or nations largely settled by people of European descent, with democratic instituitions and independent judiciary. That covers places like Oz, NZ, US, Canada and possibly Israel.

[Hawkeye]

West = Roman
East = Byzantine, Asian, barbarian

welcome to the 21st century!!! rofl rofl

[Hawkeye]

I THINK THAT WHEN ''alqaeda'' REFERS TO THE WEST, THEY MEAN THE UNITED SATES and its allies ( ISRAEL, CANADA AND UK), BUT MAINLY THE US. WICH IS WRONG TO GENERALIZE WEST, ALL THE AMERICAN CONTINEN IS WEST.

:)

I don't think they consider those three as there only allies, if you ask me the west is: US, UK, Australia, Canada, Israël and West-Europe

[foxtrot023]

Hello all,

The term ¨The West¨ can be traced originally to the time in which the roman empire was divided into West /capital Rome) and East (Capital Byzacium or Constantinople). That division caused a shift into the mainstream cultures of the roman empire, mainly the West keep Catholicism as its branch of Christianism and the East kept their Christianity as Orthodox. As the Western Roman empire fell, the differences between the western part and the Eastern part grew, and the Eastern part keep growing more greco-eastern and the western part became more latin-germanic.

We find out then, that the western part of the empire (or western europe as define by a straight line going north from Italy) and thanks to the Catholic Church which kept latin going had already several Western Culture values such as: Commonality of languages (divided into 2 main groups- latin based and germanic base) same alphabet, same calendar, same religion, same law (based on Roman law code). This similar culture was the same one that England, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland and others exported to America (the continent) and several other parts of the world in the 15th and 16th centuries. Along we got that Catholicism split into Catholicism and Protestantism, but Western Culture remained the same.

So circa 5th century to 18th century, The West was mainly Western Europe.

Along came the new countries of the US, Canada, and all the South American nations in the 18th and 19th century, and they became part of the West as well (even if in some South American countries, the indigenous population kept their own language, traditions, religions etc.- mainly Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, etc.) since they either were direct offsprings of western nations such as the US and Canada, or adopted Western values, such as South America. Also into this group of new western nations, we must add NZ, Australia, and South Africa.

In the later half 20th century, the West became a buzzword for the commies which meant ¨anyone who is not a commie¨ and mainly referring to NATO countries, and which added nations to the West such as Japan, S. Korea and Israel, that previously had not been part of the west, and which up to the original definition of the West, are still not part of it.

Now a days, the term The West is obsolete, but is usually used to defer to wealthy nations with a tradition of free market economies and democratic nations (Europe. The americas, Aus, NZ, Israel, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, etc.).

As mentioned before, a more actual term would be North vs South.

Regards all,

[bloddyaxe]

What is a western man?

He is usually a bit over 180cm(5.91 Feet) tall and weights about 85kg.
He has pale white skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Alltought the hair and eye colour can vary, like height and weight.

He is christian and uses roman alphabet. He's ideals are from ancient greek. He believes in democracy, equalship of sex, freedom of speach, choice and religion. He is a freeman and has no other authority than a god itself.
He believes that his duty is to serve humanity, promote freedom and to help those who are weak and poor.

In my country we do not usually consider our ideas coming from ancient greek more than from our own ancient times. We are also more like demi-christians since even the most christian people here believe in various unseen (pagan) creatures and the rest if not completely pagan are semi pagan or atheists...
And that last sentence is slightly more idealistic than most westerners would ever act... We westerners are greedy, which is good, otherwise people wouldn't bother to work...

[Loco]

West = Roman
East = Byzantine, Asian, barbarian

welcome to the 21st century!!! rofl rofl
Even this sounds funny, it´s true in a big way. West are roman descendant countries(cultural or political) and East are byzantine descendant countries(cultural or political): Greek, serbians, ukrains, bielorrussians, russians, with their orthodox christianism and cyrilic alphabet that it´s an straight evolution of greek alphabet. But then again, Byzantine empire, which had the core in today Greece, was the east survivor of barbarian invasions of Roman Empire. Byzantine Empire, Greece, enlighted Russian in the early dark times with missioners and wise men, russian kings called themselves Czar=Caesar because they considered themselves natural heirs of Byzantium Empire when it was conquered by turks, so if I think many people agree that Russia wasn´t/isn´t western, then isn´t Greece western? I think Greece it´s western since Salamina battle at least, but Russia, a cultural son of Greece, is western? Brrrr, I think this are byzantine discussions, as we say at home. Since it seems that alphabet or being orthodox opposed to catholic/protestan it´s not the question that defines being a western or eastern european, I think you´re a western at the eyes of Bin Laden et alia because the values you defend, and I haven´t any doubt that Russia is a western country for any muslim integrist. Even I´d say that Soviet Union(Russia at last) was defending some western values(not all western values) when it fought in Afghanistan 20 years ago, although it was wrong because it used the force.
Edited: When I wrote this post I hadn´t read the ones posted by Foxtrot and Bloddyaxe. I agree with what Foxtrot wrote, but we musn´t forget that Roman Laws were almost forgotten or just unknown in Western Europe thanks to barbarians invaders until the Low Middle Age. We re-discovered in Western Europe the Roman Law thanks to Byzantine Empire, there is Justianiano´s Code of Roman Law and byzantine interpretations of roman laws that were standing in Byzantium until 1453, and the begining of Renaissance in Italy began when otomans started their incessant attacks against byzantines and many byzantines scientists and jurists flown away to Italy, in similar way that many european brains did to USA in difficult times. In fact, this period when byzantines experts stablished themselves in Italy it´s knows as the time of "Reception of Roman Law"(literal translation), at least in Spain, where even we always kept some tradition of roman laws, it was influded by germanic laws until that reception in the Low Middle Age. Btw, it´s interesting what Bloddyaxe says about opinions icelanders have regarding themselves. Even in Spain you can draw a line today in the map in the areas where roman influence was almost inexistent, some kind of paganism survived and in some places simply there´s other way of thinking where roman roots are weaker, but this it´s off topic and certainly a problematic topic in Spain today.

[aartamen]

Define "the East", what's left is "the West". :lol:

[oldsoak]

Define "the East", what's left is "the West". :lol:

Thats easy. East is where the sun rises. :lol:

[aartamen]

See how easy it is?

[moughoun]

Define "the East", what's left is "the West". :lol:

Thats easy. East is where the sun rises. :lol:

I'm Irish, what is this "sun" you speak of? ;)

[StarvingStudent47]

You should more like trying to describe western people and culture than trying to locate continents.

What is a western man?

He is usually a bit over 180cm(5.91 Feet) tall and weights about 85kg.
He has pale white skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Alltought the hair and eye colour can vary, like height and weight.

He is christian and uses roman alphabet. He's ideals are from ancient greek. He believes in democracy, equalship of sex, freedom of speach, choice and religion. He is a freeman and has no other authority than a god itself.
He believes that his duty is to serve humanity, promote freedom and to help those who are weak and poor.

Well, this American is too short, too slim, and too Jewish to be a Westerner then :roll:

[Mark_Aspen]

But Israel is on the Asian landmass, and over 50% of the populaton is of African or Asian extraction.

I'd go with the idea that it is less geographic and more socio-economic. Why would Israel be the West, but not Japan? For the most part I'd except the Greek ideals, largely Christian notation.

Moughoun. Your question is deep and speaks of an educated and sensitive upbringing. Much like the question my people must ask; "Where is this good ale you speak of?"

[S'13]

and over 50% of the populaton is of African or Asian extraction.


Mybe this is true for the years that were prior to the great
immigration from the former U.S.S.R.
I highly doubt this figure would be true today. I'm sure that not long ago it was publicized that the majority of the Jewish population in Israel is of European extraction.

[OB Kenobi]

West = Roman
East = Byzantine, Asian, barbarian

welcome to the 21st century!!! rofl rofl

People wanted to know where that division between "east" and "west" came from, that's where it came from. Europe (including the Balkans and Caucasus in this for brevity) was divided between the Roman Empire in the west and later the Byzantine Empire in the East. You also had the Nordic states which to this day remain neutral. Also note Germany's repeated attempts to claim to be the "new" Roman Empire (Barbarossa, the Third Reich, etc), these never had legitimacy and were not allied with the true followers of Roman ideals (not that I support those ideals, btw). That is why you have the Catholic church and the Orthodox church, and those allegiences still play a major role today.

Still not convinced? Look at who the leaders of the "anti-terror" coalition are and those that oppose it. It's divided up by the descendents of Rome (and the Jews) and the descendents of the barbarians/pagans and Byzantines, with the Asians siding with the barbarians/pagans since they missed the whole Rome thing entirely and think its crazy.

Or I dunno, maybe you might want to look at American federal architecture and symbolism. Very Greco-Roman, wouldn't you say? With just a slight touch of Egyptian.

So think of it this way, it's not just about Muslim vs. Christian-Jew, it's about Catholic, Orthodox, and pagan as well; the legacy of Rome still affects us today as much as ever, 2000 years of lies.

[UkrainianAmerican]

and over 50% of the populaton is of African or Asian extraction.


Mybe this is true for the years that were prior to the great
immigration from the former U.S.S.R.
I highly doubt this figure would be true today. I'm sure that not long ago it was publicized that the majority of the Jewish population in Israel is of European extraction.
Yie. Ashkenazis REPRESENTIN'.

[Nizark]

which one of the arab nations are closest to being called 'the west?'

i say either its between kuwait, bahrain, the UAE states and on a lesser level, Jordan

[Gatling]

Nizarkwhich one of the arab nations are closest to being called 'the west?'

i say either its between kuwait, bahrain, the UAE states and on a lesser level, Jordan The only arab nation that's ever been close to being part of the west was Lebenon before the war.

[n4292936]

Nizarkwhich one of the arab nations are closest to being called 'the west?'

i say either its between kuwait, bahrain, the UAE states and on a lesser level, Jordan The only arab nation that's ever been close to being part of the west was Lebenon before the war. I've been to Bahrain, Kuwait and the UAE and out of all of them the closest would be the UAE, but none of them are very close at all really..... and I dont think that Lebenon is an arab nation - though it is a middle eastern one. There is a distinction.

[Gatling]

n4292936I dont think that Lebenon is an arab nation - though it is a middle eastern one. There is a distinction. What makes you say that? In fact according to some statistics Lebenon is 95% arab, which makes it even more arab than Iraq.

[n4292936]

I meant "pure" arab ;) They speak a dialect of arabic, though not Gulf arabic (regarded by those on the penninsula as the true form) and have interbred with other semetic people from around the area including Phonecians, turks, Kurds, assyrians and others. They're arab-lite :P

[-ile-]

Hey guys, check out the location of Finland...talk about a hot spot in cold war days. After the WWII we HAD TO lean towards east although we had (or so I heard) some"hush-hush" meetings with the US and NATO also some agreements that don't look good in the sunlight.

Also we didn't know who to call if either one started an invasion :cantbeli: If we would've called the Soviets to help us with some kind of threat the Soviets would've just taken the country and vice versa.

But Finland has been some kind of melting pot for east and west. For example we have a SPAA featuring T-55 chassis (eastern tech.) and a Swiss made Marksman AA-system (west tech.). Many engineers from these countries have came to Finland to wonder about the Marksman SPAA.

I sh*t you not when I tell that Finland has one of the most reliable assault rifles in the world. Israeli's Galil is based on the Finnish RK. Also it is the only rifle in the world that works in Siberia in Russia. Their own AK's tend to freeze at those -40 Celsius degrees. So they purchased some of the Finnish rifles there..

And of course, because of our location and threat assesments it fires the 7.62 x 39 AK-47 round. There has been several tests in Finland if we should adopt the 5.56 mm round here, but the answer is always no. Why? Because we have so thick forests here that the light 5.56 would change direction almost everytime from the twigs when it is fired in our forests. It wouldn't perform as well as the 7.62x39 in here...although the regular infantry soldier could carry more ammo. Also the adopting of totally new weapons system would be very expensive.

But since we bought FA-18 Hornets and Leopard 2's and the NH-90's are on their way, I think we can speak of a western country..there's a lot of debate now that should we join the NATO or not..

[ikurinturbiini]

Indeed, Finland (and Sweden) have very little in common with the undisputed bastions of the "West", such as USA and UK, or even France, Germany, Italy, etc.

There ought to be an option "North" in the debate. Naturally, North is closer to the West than the East in terms of tradition, religion and economy.

It's relative. Compare Finland with Russia, Turkey, or any other Asian/Eastern culture, and you see that Finland is West.