Simulated drills show Taiwan overrun in 6 days

[2RHPZ]

Simulated drills show Taiwan overrun in 6 days

Simulated drills show Taiwan overrun in 6 days !

TAIPEI - Taiwan's armed forces staged a drill simulating an invasion by China yesterday as a military computer exercise showed that Taiwanese troops could withstand a similar onslaught for just six days.

The scenario of the manoeuvre, the first of two rehearsals for a major exercise to be held on Aug 25, was that Taiwanese troops had failed to hold off an amphibious landing by Chinese forces, TVBS cable television showed.


As the island's troops tried to stop simulated Chinese forces from pushing further inland, a fleet of US-made Cobra gunships fired laser-guided Hellfire missiles while howitzers and tanks fired on targets.

Defence Minister Lee Jye confirmed a report that in a recent computer-simulated exercise, Taiwanese troops were wiped out 130 hours after the People's Liberation Army started invading.

But Mr Lee was swift to urge the Taiwanese not to panic over the outcome of the simulation.

'The computer drill included the toughest scenarios so that we are able to know where our flaws are,' he told reporters.

The Defence Ministry issued a carefully worded statement to describe the computer war games, saying: 'Although the defending troops suffered severe losses, the losses by the invading troops were several times bigger. If we consider it as a war between the two sides, this indicates the enemy will have to pay a painful price.'

Also, the simulated attacks did not include intervention by the US or Japan, the Chinese-language Apple Daily said. -- AFP, *******

Time for Taiwan to beef up its military,and perhaps look at maintaining hidden caches of weapons in rural areas in preparation of guerilla warfare.

[perdurabo]

they are realy thinking about invading Taiwan :roll:

[Moledet]

As long as the chinese won't call it the six days war (them and their copies, arrr) I have no problem with them overunning any country in east Asia (except of Singapore).

[PsihoKeke]

It's possible that army wants bigger budget, so they let this info out to put some pressure on politicians (US army did the same douring the cold war). By the way didn't Sun Tzu wrote: Pretend that you are weak, when you are strong and pretend that you are strong when you are weak.

[ShotOver]

Hrmm.. Bugger.

[Kilgor]

dont believe everything a computer tells you.

is it possible to predict something as complicated as war ?

[Obergefreiter]

If they don't finish the job in 6 days help will arrive and all might be lost anyways. I wouldn't think they would have that long.

[oldsoak]

Now, if you knew you could be overrun in 6 days by your neighbour , who happens to be muttering dark things about you, would you publish the fact ? More to this than meets the eye.

[Backis]

Was this the same simulator that predicted a 30% casualty rate for the first airstrikes against Iraq in '91? :P

;)

[ROY H]

we would leave them high and dry pretty damn sad ...

[hood]

If intervention was going to happen, 6 days would be plenty of time to some kind of response going. As for China paying a painful price, I doubt the people in charge would really care if they're going to do it anyway.

[anonymous individual]

I doubt China will go to war with Taiwan.

[Khabbi]

kinda off topic but.. Hey China !, get out of Tibet !

[hood]

I doubt China will go to war with Taiwan.

The day will come when capitalism will make them powerful, and they'll be able to afford an impressive military. When they've reached that point, they may feel that they have more to gain than to lose from Taiwan.

[Uncle Sam]

A friend of mine, who is very religious, told me a few weeks ago, that China will be "the threat of threats". By that he meant, "They will start invading their neighbors" in the very near future.

The more I read about China, the more I think he may be right.

If China invades Taiwan, they will not stand a chance. Who will help them? The U.S.? With what troops?

[hood]

One hopes that the world has learned its lesson from WW1.

[Herrmannek]

If intervention was going to happen, 6 days would be plenty of time to some kind of response going. As for China paying a painful price, I doubt the people in charge would really care if they're going to do it anyway.
THis is all I need to dig safe and deep enough hole in remote location :)

[Beloved Shiv]

A friend of mine, who is very religious, told me a few weeks ago, that China will be "the threat of threats". By that he meant, "They will start invading their neighbors" in the very near future.

The more I read about China, the more I think he may be right.


Yes, some have taken comments in Revelations and ascribed them to mean China as the nation to initiate the final war. Notably their current troop strength supposedly matches the army as described in Biblical passage.

Regardless, China is an ever growing super power. Look at the increase in their oil consumption in just the last year. They are developing a more consumer-driven economy while still carrying heavy industrialization.

There's only so much oil to go around. We will be in significantly elevated competion against China for oil, within the next 3-4 years.

[Helly]

As long as the chinese won't call it the six days war (them and their copies, arrr) I have no problem with them overunning any country in east Asia (except of Singapore).

Uh, okay bud. So you're saying that it's okay for China to invade countries like Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea? Sounds like you have intimate knowledge of the region... not.

And by the way, Singapore is not an East Asian country. It's in Southeast Asia.

I've always been a friend of Israel, and I've had a number of Israeli friends. I'm just glad you're not one of them.

[aartamen]

If you have anything to do with contruction industry, you'd know that concrete and steel are getting very hard to come by in the US markets. The Chinese are just gobbling them up. It's not only oil. The US is consuming some 20-30% (forgot) of the world oil. It has some 1/5 population of China. What would happen to the world oil prices if China reaches US levels of oil consumption per capita? Construction steel just about doubled in a year, btw.

[platform389]

If you have anything to do with contruction industry, you'd know that concrete and steel are getting very hard to come by in the US markets. The Chinese are just gobbling them up. It's not only oil. The US is consuming some 20-30% (forgot) of the world oil. It has some 1/5 population of China. What would happen to the world oil prices if China reaches US levels of oil consumption per capita? Construction steel just about doubled in a year, btw.

Ah, someone who understands. China is buying dismantled blast furnances from this country and taking them back and installing them there. They are ramping up FAST for something!

Wonder how long before China decides to take the Russian oil in Siberia a la Tom Clancy's "Bear And The Dragon" book? That region is the only undeveloped resource base left on the planet. Only a fool believes it will remain that way for very much longer.

Access to natural resources will be the hot button issue for the remainder of the century...

...if we have that long. :(

[Kriz]

We in the West wil have to learn to live with a superpower China, like it or not. Just the number of Chinese people make it an important player in regional but also international factor...
They can colonize the entire wolrd by just sending chinese workers around the globe.

[PALADIN]

Has anyone read Shark Mutiny by Patrick Robinson? The situation in the Novel sounds earily similar. :(

[Abolith]

stop it! you people are freakin me out here... reminds me of some fortune teller who said we would re-invade Iraq, followed by Iran and Syria. then when we are spread ultra thin China will make her move and we will not have the troops available to stop her. She (china) will start the domino effect that would lead to the end of the united states.

[hood]

The whole "not having enough troops" to stop her will literally never happen. If forces from a large country go to invade the lower 48 states, it's go time for nukes. I doubt there'd be much hesitation.

[Pandy]

Yea, last I heard, we still have about 700,000 some deployable troops in the United States Arm Forces, and that's out of our 1,600,000 total troops. That's not all that bad in my eyes, due to what has been going on, we should be in worse shape.

[Argyll]

6 days?........the computer is pretty generous is it not?

Ah the Chinese.........great food,but sneaky little sods,they know how to play the West...........dark horse's and was it not Nostradamus who predicted something like "Beware the yellow peril who falls from the sky" or something like that..........eeeek Chinese Para's.......Billions of em.
All joking aside there are too many people caught up in other arguments and threats,and have ignored the largest Army in Asia as a threat to world peace......

[UoUo]

The que is....if china will invade them (i hope not) all the west will help them? or again...most of europe will try to use diplomatic (like always - not includes UK) and sure nothing will came out of this....

I the all the west will Untie...china don't have chance....but if it will be just china vs US and UK...it will be a big problem...the US will won but with alot of deads. :|

[Argyll]

The que is....if china will invade them (i hope not) all the west will help them? or again...most of europe will try to use diplomatic (like always - not includes UK) and sure nothing will came out of this....

I the all the west will Untie...china don't have chance....but if it will be just china vs US and UK...it will be a big problem...the US will won but with alot of deads. :|

Good points...........but I wouldn't be too sure of the UK's involvement after the Iraq war debacle,trouble is by the time the West assembles and despatches a credible Force,it'll be too late.
Here's one for you all though,thinking back to Tane's topic,would you die for a belief/ideal.........would you all be willing to go and fight the Chinese,and assist a country that means sod all to you?How would US Soldiers and for that matter any soldiers feel about going to a war where there was no history behind it,unlike Afghanistan and Iraq?

[Freibier]

I think if China really wants Taiwan back, they'll get it.
No sane person would risk a (nuclear?) war for Taiwan.
Don't underestimate the chinese and don't forget that they can lob nuclear warheads on US soil and they can afford to loose millions and still outnumber anyone.

[soma]

States invaded? I don't think American citizens would idly stand about, as they'd give a new meaning to guerilla warfare.

[UoUo]

Yes but people dob't understand...it won't end there...after they will take Taiwan maybe they will want more? again try to remember what happend when the last time the west try to avoid war. and sell a littile country to avoid big war...what do you think on that people?

[Sayeret]

We in the West wil have to learn to live with a superpower China, like it or not. Just the number of Chinese people make it an important player in regional but also international factor...
They can colonize the entire wolrd by just sending chinese workers around the globe.

China isn't a superpower yet, it may become one in the future if it switchs to a Democracy but for right now they aern't considered one by most people. I don't think China is going to invade Taiwan either and even if they did I don't believe it would result in a huge war between the United States and China.

[Argyll]

Yes but people dob't understand...it won't end there...after they will take Taiwan maybe they will want more? again try to remember what happend when the last time the west try to avoid war. and sell a littile country to avoid big war...what do you think on that people?
Don't speak in riddles Uo Uo.......explain clearly,for example who is the West?
China has longe wanted to annex Taiwan,and has stated so on many occasions

[Argyll]

We in the West wil have to learn to live with a superpower China, like it or not. Just the number of Chinese people make it an important player in regional but also international factor...
They can colonize the entire wolrd by just sending chinese workers around the globe.

China isn't a superpower yet, it may become one in the future if it switchs to a Democracy but for right now they aern't considered one by most people. I don't think China is going to invade Taiwan either and even if they did I don't believe it would result in a huge war between the United States and China.

You don't have to be a democracy to be a superpower,look at the former Soviet Union

[UoUo]

Yes but people dob't understand...it won't end there...after they will take Taiwan maybe they will want more? again try to remember what happend when the last time the west try to avoid war. and sell a littile country to avoid big war...what do you think on that people?
Don't speak in riddles Uo Uo.......explain clearly,for example who is the West?
China has longe wanted to annex Taiwan,and has stated so on many occasions


The west in ww2 and thier ways to avoid war with the nazis in the early 40'.....the west didn't do nothin until the war knock on thier door...i have to remind you who the nazis conquered first? the small countris that wont be defend by the superpowers....


i am not trying to comare the situation..but still...


Hope you will understand me with my very very poor english.

[Argyll]

Yes but people dob't understand...it won't end there...after they will take Taiwan maybe they will want more? again try to remember what happend when the last time the west try to avoid war. and sell a littile country to avoid big war...what do you think on that people?
Don't speak in riddles Uo Uo.......explain clearly,for example who is the West?
China has longe wanted to annex Taiwan,and has stated so on many occasions


The west in ww2 and thier ways to avoid war with the nazis in the early 40'.....the west didn't do nothin until the war knock on thier door...i have to remind you who the nazis conquered first? the small countris that wont be defend by the superpowers....


i am not trying to comare the situation..but still...


Hope you will understand me with my very very poor english.

My historical knowledge on WW2 is limited,so bear with me.
Germany Invaded Poland 1st in 1939,and on that same day I'm sure Britain declared War on Germany,the Blitzkreig on Europes low countries resulted in the British Expeditionary Force being evacuated from Dunkirk in 1940(?)
During that time Hitler signed a pact with Stalin stating he would not open up an offensive against the Soviets,there were no superpowers in Europe at that time,the lowland countries had defensive Armies,and were no match for Hitlers "Storm troopers",the speed and surprise and efficiency of the Nazi advance caught everyone in Europe by surprise.


Hows that info for you?,and I'm not interested in a slanging match,this is a different topic altogether ;)

[UoUo]

Yes but people dob't understand...it won't end there...after they will take Taiwan maybe they will want more? again try to remember what happend when the last time the west try to avoid war. and sell a littile country to avoid big war...what do you think on that people?
Don't speak in riddles Uo Uo.......explain clearly,for example who is the West?
China has longe wanted to annex Taiwan,and has stated so on many occasions


The west in ww2 and thier ways to avoid war with the nazis in the early 40'.....the west didn't do nothin until the war knock on thier door...i have to remind you who the nazis conquered first? the small countris that wont be defend by the superpowers....


i am not trying to comare the situation..but still...


Hope you will understand me with my very very poor english.

My historical knowledge on WW2 is limited,so bear with me.
Germany Invaded Poland 1st in 1939,and on that same day I'm sure Britain declared War on Germany,the Blitzkreig on Europes low countries resulted in the British Expeditionary Force being evacuated from Dunkirk in 1940(?)
During that time Hitler signed a pact with Stalin stating he would not open up an offensive against the Soviets,there were no superpowers in Europe at that time,the lowland countries had defensive Armies,and were no match for Hitlers "Storm troopers",the speed and surprise and efficiency of the Nazi advance caught everyone in Europe by surprise.


Hows that info for you?,and I'm not interested in a slanging match,this is a different topic altogether ;)

Soory didn't meant the early 40'...any way what with chezslovakia?

And i am soory i didn't say you don't know the historical knowledge on WW2 you sure know more then me.

[Argyll]

Off the top of my head I think Czechaslovakia was invaded in 41,along with Austria and Yugoslavia.
The amount of countries that fell to Germany in such a short time is astonishing,sure they offered resistance,but they were no match for the likes of the SS and the Whermacht Panzer Divs.
Even the Balerics(Sp) were no match for Hitlers warmachine,Crete was a tougher nut to crack,but even that fell eventually

[WolverineBlue]

PRC is still trying to come to grips with their liberalized economy -- there is a ton of corruption and graft going on at the provincial and federal levels there...a financial timebomb waiting to go off.

[Roger Rabbit]

Off the top of my head I think Czechaslovakia was invaded in 41,along with Austria and Yugoslavia.


On September 29, 1938, Germany, Britain, France, and Italy sign the Munich Pact. This effectively gave Germany "permission" to invade the Sudeten territories of Czechoslovakia.

On March 15, 1939, German troops entered Prague and completed the invasion of Czechoslovakia, ignoring the Munich Pact.

Austria.


On 9th March 1938, the Austrian Chancellor Kurt Schuschnigg announced a plebiscite on the independence of Austria.

Adolf Hitler took this as an opportunity to take action against the Austrian State. Schuschnigg was pressed to resign. The National Socialist Arthur Seyss-Inquart took over the chancellorship and formed a new government. The Austrian National Socialists took power in Austria.

On the morning of 12th March 1938, troops of the German Wehrmacht and the SS crossed the German-Austrian border. On 13th March 1938, Hitler announced in Linz the legislation on the “Anschluss” (Annexation) of Austria into the German Reich.

Thats a basic overview. If you would like any more infomation i'd be happy to provide it.

Regards RR

[Argyll]

I had a feeling Austria was not invaded as such,but "annexed".....comes from watching the "Sound of Music" my wifes fave movie........God I hated the Von trapp brats!

[moughoun]

Off the top of my head I think Czechaslovakia was invaded in 41,along with Austria and Yugoslavia.
The amount of countries that fell to Germany in such a short time is astonishing,sure they offered resistance,but they were no match for the likes of the SS and the Whermacht Panzer Divs.
Even the Balerics(Sp) were no match for Hitlers warmachine,Crete was a tougher nut to crack,but even that fell eventually

The German's got luckey on Crete, they lost 1/3 of their para's in the intial landing, and they met stiff resistence from the Kiwi's and Indian's, infact there is a famous incident of the Kiwi's chanting a Haka, while in an assault, they drove the German's out of a village, it must of been one cool thing to see ;)

[Seiyuuki]

Vietnam got smaller, a few years ago, China "acquire" a big portion of land off the northern tip of Vietnam.

[Operation Ivy]

China would be stupid to attack us, and we would be stupid to attack china either way both sides will lose

[Hiroshima]

China's missing one or two things that'll allow it to be a superpower....and the major one is natural resources. They've been expanding into the desert starting to explore for oil and other materials.

[garyfanclub]

China has a serious natural resource, lots and lots of warm bodies to throw at us. That is one thing Western armies are not willing to sacrifice, the lives of their soldiers.

However, I also feel that China is equal to the Japan of the 1930's, they are just waiting for the correct time to strike. I feel that one day, our offspring, or the current HS/College generation, will have to fight China. Without a doubt.

I also have no doubts that we would win, but at a tremendous expenditure in lives and material.

[Hiroshima]

But they fight with soviet style tactics.....and we can kill a whooooole lot of them pretty quickly. Give the Dragon and the Bear written by Tom Clancy for an idea aobut it. We have effective kill weapons desgined to be used on massed troop movements.

[Durandal]

Here's one for you all though,thinking back to Tane's topic,would you die for a belief/ideal.........would you all be willing to go and fight the Chinese,and assist a country that means sod all to you?How would US Soldiers and for that matter any soldiers feel about going to a war where there was no history behind it,unlike Afghanistan and Iraq?

Good question.

Yes. Not die for (that is very open ended and muddy), but defend a belief or idea? Yes.

Taiwan is a democratic republic, actually somewhat similar to ours. Their citizens vote. They have a supreme court and local representation.

They are, playing fast and loose here, a democracy, as much as free Western State is. They have established civil liberties and freedoms.

China is in many ways the direct opposite of Taiwan. Yes, the future bodes well for China, assuming it can kick the totalitarian and corruption aspects of their quickly growing pseudo free trade society.

But currently it has not.

Thus, if you asked me if the idea of helping a free state is fundamental to existence of democracy and civil liberties around the world. China will have the capacity to influence through conventional force most of Asia in another 2 decades. Founded by the Chinese nationalist that were our allies during World War II (yes, our nation does have a historical past with the Taiwanese). We also have a fairly numerous Taiwanese population in the United States.

So yeah, there is a certain importance in Taiwan.

It is one of the things I think the United States should have been doing all along. Screw these bastardized regimes who torture their people...rape them, murder the, starve them. We should have supported democratic development. Yet, many times, we do not. We adopt the "Enemy of my enemy, is my friend and thus build a delicate house of cards, not built on the faith of the people of these nations but their corrupt leaders.

There was a point in time when it made sense to me in some screwed up way. I does not anymore. How can a nation, that prides itself on its civil liberties...freedom of religion and speech, look at itself in the mirror and support something that is contrary to the very core of our nation?

Maybe we should take a REALLY close look at Taiwan. Maybe we SHOULD defend these people if the time ever comes.

Do the right thing.

Sorry for the rant, but I have been working on this concept in a vacuum deliberately and this seemed to be a perfect time to share. We have more ties with Taiwan...both America and Western culture as a whole...than we are either aware of or willing to admit and I think it is time we tell China to stick it where the sun don't shine. Taiwan represents democracy and we NEED to help defend that.

Especially in this day and age.

[Hiroshima]

Concidering we're investing heavilly in military spending for Tiwan

[moughoun]

Here's one for you all though,thinking back to Tane's topic,would you die for a belief/ideal.........would you all be willing to go and fight the Chinese,and assist a country that means sod all to you?How would US Soldiers and for that matter any soldiers feel about going to a war where there was no history behind it,unlike Afghanistan and Iraq?

Good question.

Yes. Not die for (that is very open ended and muddy), but defend a belief or idea? Yes.

.

If your not willing to die for it,it's not much of a belief

[Hiroshima]

But it's how a democracy works

[Fintin]

maybe i should buy that lead cup...6 days...those 6 days could end up being the end of the world as we know it...not saying the end of existance...but they could very well end up in a way we could only imagin...lets just hope and pray that the powers in charge on both sides relize they only have something to loose in the end

[[AFSOC]]

As long as the chinese won't call it the six days war (them and their copies, arrr) I have no problem with them overunning any country in east Asia (except of Singapore).

yea cause thats because your a douche bag....what if China invaded Israel you wouldnt mind either right? :backhand:

[Hiroshima]

Or we hit thm with first strike....

[Durandal]

If your not willing to die for it,it's not much of a belief

"Willing to die for..." is a very open ended question. I do not believe in martyrdom. I do not believe in actions that result in my suicide, BUT I do believe that taking on risk where my death could be one of the outcomes to defend that which MY nation holds true IS something that I would do.

Saying you are "willing to die" is different than saying you will "put your life on the line"...

At least to me. It may sound like semantics but not in my mind.

[Pandy]

If your not willing to die for it,it's not much of a belief

"Willing to die for..." is a very open ended question. I do not believe in martyrdom. I do not believe in actions that result in my suicide, BUT I do believe that taking on risk where my death could be one of the outcomes to defend that which MY nation holds true IS something that I would do.

Saying you are "willing to die" is different than saying you will "put your life on the line"...

At least to me. It may sound like semantics but not in my mind.

Aman, well said. That's my mind set with small odd ends... but you got it right on the money.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I don't see China trying anything in the near future, the next decade at least. They are putting some serious effort into transforming their armed forces and have a little way to go yet until they are where they want to be. They do have territorial aspirations all along their border and haven't been shy in telegraphing them, I don't know whether Taiwan would be the first step in an expansion policy but it wouldn't be the only one.
As for natural resources there is a **** load sitting due north of Manchuria....

moughoun wrote,

The German's got luckey on Crete, they lost 1/3 of their para's in the intial landing, and they met stiff resistence from the Kiwi's and Indian's, infact there is a famous incident of the Kiwi's chanting a Haka, while in an assault, they drove the German's out of a village, it must of been one cool thing to see

Kalamata(sp?) is the name of the town. 28th Maori Battalion performed a Haka then bayonet charged the germans. Only to be met by numerous steaming piles of fertilizer and fading cries of Gott in Himmel!

[Hiroshima]

What's gonna be really bad for the military of China is that they favor the son heavilly in that country, and it'll suffer a severe J curve when it comes down to it.

[Virus]

If war between the US and China ever came (which it wont in my opinion) either the draft would be re-instated (it would almost have to be) or soooo many people in the US would join up...you look at our fighting strength right now, just imagine how many potential recruits are out there, SOOO MANY.....and we have lots of nukes....so yah :) (/end ramble)

[Redragon]

I still don't know how China will be able to ferry the amount of troops that is required over to Taiwan given that most of their navy is only suitable for coastal missions. Like, the most powerful surface ship in their navy is the newly aquired Russian Sovremenny. The rest of their ships either can't even venture out near Taiwan or does not have the capability to defend itself against air threats. In my opinion, the only way China has a chance is with a surprise missile attack eliminating most of Taiwan's defences.

[Argyll]

I still don't know how China will be able to ferry the amount of troops that is required over to Taiwan given that most of their navy is only suitable for coastal missions. Like, the most powerful surface ship in their navy is the newly aquired Russian Sovremenny. The rest of their ships either can't even venture out near Taiwan or does not have the capability to defend itself against air threats. In my opinion, the only way China has a chance is with a surprise missile attack eliminating most of Taiwan's defences.

Massed Para drop!

Interesting things coming about the question of beliefs ideals and doing what's right,so where is the Belief and Aid for the White Zimbabwean's?......I see no Nation,even ours(UK) rush to their aid.
What about Tibet..........I see no Nations rush for their ideals and beliefs there.
Are those places any different from Taiwan?
Africa is being decimated in spots all over,and there is little in the way of "doing what's right" there.

Is the life of a Tibetan or a Sudanes,or a White farmer who's been beaten to death for his land worth less than someone from Taiwan?

Human Nature at it's best......choosing an ideology and "doing what's right" is not that simple is it?
The example's given are just off the top of my head,I'm sure that there are other places who are/were crying out for help..........the classic above all was the Balkans.......for years we knew what was going on and the West sat back......no belief,no ideology,and not doing "what's right"
Another one Rwanda......... :(

[StarvingStudent47]

The whole "not having enough troops" to stop her will literally never happen. If forces from a large country go to invade the lower 48 states, it's go time for nukes. I doubt there'd be much hesitation.

Three words.

HICKS. WITH. SHOTGUNS.

Nobody's gonna invade the 48 contiguous.

[StarvingStudent47]

EDIT--double post.

[Felix]

Just to put it out there:

Austria was invaded in 1936, completely bloodlessly.
Czechoslovakia:1938
Poland was invaded in 1939.
Yugoslavia in Greece in 1941.

[Trident-za]

Interesting things coming about the question of beliefs ideals and doing what's right,so where is the Belief and Aid for the White Zimbabwean's?......I see no Nation,even ours(UK) rush to their aid.
What about Tibet..........I see no Nations rush for their ideals and beliefs there.
Are those places any different from Taiwan?
Africa is being decimated in spots all over,and there is little in the way of "doing what's right" there.

Is the life of a Tibetan or a Sudanes,or a White farmer who's been beaten to death for his land worth less than someone from Taiwan?

Human Nature at it's best......choosing an ideology and "doing what's right" is not that simple is it?
The example's given are just off the top of my head,I'm sure that there are other places who are/were crying out for help..........the classic above all was the Balkans.......for years we knew what was going on and the West sat back......no belief,no ideology,and not doing "what's right"
Another one Rwanda......... :(

Good points! I fear that the west will look the other way if China tries this any time soon... at least in the short term.

And to Hood... 6 days is enough for some sort of response??? (I don't want to move back to page 1 of this thread to quote you exactly) I'm currently reading a book written by a journalist embedded with the 101st in Iraq, and it took a LOT longer than 6 days for them to unload the ships at the harbour (a few weeks before combat started)..... let alone respond in an effective manner to a military threat half way around the world from where your troops are currently focused.

I can't remember the book's title offhand, but it's a good read - never realized before how much any modern military is dependant on things like gas, AAA batteries, duct tape etc. etc. Take that stuff away, and most modern units are completely useless. 6 days wouldn't give the US a chance to respond.....

Lets just hope the world never has to test it's response time to this kind of incident.......

[Flagg]

Good points! I fear that the west will look the other way if China tries this any time soon... at least in the short term.

And to Hood... 6 days is enough for some sort of response??? (I don't want to move back to page 1 of this thread to quote you exactly) I'm currently reading a book written by a journalist embedded with the 101st in Iraq, and it took a LOT longer than 6 days for them to unload the ships at the harbour (a few weeks before combat started)..... let alone respond in an effective manner to a military threat half way around the world from where your troops are currently focused.

I can't remember the book's title offhand, but it's a good read - never realized before how much any modern military is dependant on things like gas, AAA batteries, duct tape etc. etc. Take that stuff away, and most modern units are completely useless. 6 days wouldn't give the US a chance to respond.....

Lets just hope the world never has to test it's response time to this kind of incident.......

I think it was Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf that said something along the lines of: "Armchair soldiers talk about tactics, real soldiers talk about logistics." I reckon that's a good one

[Trident-za]

I think it was Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf that said something along the lines of: "Armchair soldiers talk about tactics, real soldiers talk about logistics." I reckon that's a good one

100% true. Good quote mate (sorry about the 3N :)) 6 days is nowhere near enough time for anyone to respond..... just hope that China is more interested in economic expansion right now....

[Flagg]

100% true. Good quote mate (sorry about the 3N Smile) 6 days is nowhere near enough time for anyone to respond..... just hope that China is more interested in economic expansion right now....

Well after this year's Tri-Nations, I'd say SA has developed a strategic weapon system......para-qual the Boks....drop them right on China's second echelon with a week's supply of Castle Lager....they oughta be able to hold out until the cavalry arrives ;)

[Trident-za]

Well after this year's Tri-Nations, I'd say SA has developed a strategic weapon system......para-qual the Boks....drop them right on China's second echelon with a week's supply of Castle Lager....they oughta be able to hold out until the cavalry arrives ;)

:lol: As long as yellow cards aren't issued for off-sides play, this theory of yours might work ;)

[Seiyuuki]

When dealing with China...I'm my own quagmire...I'm part chinese, japanese, cambodian and vietnamese.

[usa320]

The whole "not having enough troops" to stop her will literally never happen. If forces from a large country go to invade the lower 48 states, it's go time for nukes. I doubt there'd be much hesitation.

You cant invade the US, its impossible.

Countries like Iraq and Afghanistan are easy countries to invade because you have all your populus concentrated in a few major urban centers. The large majority of the countries are open desert or uninhabitable mountainous regions. So as long as you control those 5 or 6 cities, you are pretty much in control of the country.

The US on the otherhand, as well as most European and Asian countries now, are so built up, that everywhere you go there are large urban sprawls. There are cities everywhere. People everywhere. Well maintained infrastructure. The US Has about 18,000 airports in its boundries, about half of them are capable of housing operating military aircraft, and all are capable of operating helictopers. So even if they wiped out our air force bases, aircraft could be dispersed in large numbers.

Our highway systems would allow mechanized and armored units to delpoy quickly.

Almost every city has an armory in it housing national guard and reserve forces and equipment, and most major cities have at least one air force base or major military installation. Some cities have many. Look at Norfolk Virginia. It has Norfolk NAS, Norfolk Naval Base, Langley AFB... San Antonio has 3 air force bases and an army base... Our cities are well defended. Not to mention a large number of the American public are armed.

NO ONE could ever invade the US... not even the Soviets back in the 60's. They might have gotten alaska or florida, but they wouldnt get much further.

[Seiyuuki]

The U.S. is safe...you guys seen the thread "Americans are loaded to the teeth..." all the firearms of the members of this forum are more than enough to go take over a third world countries...and that's just people from this forum alone, not counting Texas.

[aartamen]

To really really hurt the US China has to stop all the exports to the US. I am not even sure how bad it will get. Practiaclly speaking, if it was not for nukes, China can conquer Eurasia. Once that's done we will be in a bad shape. How concentrated is the Chinese population?

[Identity31690]

Interesting to see none of our Chinese friends have anything to say about this...

[Steel21]

Before anything else, lets set one thing straight: HISTORY IS ABOUT THE DECIDING FACTORS IN HUMAN LIFE, *** AND MONEY.


China does not want a military takeover because.... $$$$$$
The Taiwanese and the PRC has somthing of a synergy going on. Labor cost in Taiwan are rising, but in PRC its cheap. Taiwan is more and more focused on hi-tech industries (ie ASUS) and leaving the simpler manufacturing to PRC. I dont hav ehte numbers but Taiwan is one of the top trading partners of PRC.

And since all of the goods cannot be transported directly to PRC, they are often routed through Hong Kong.

So lets look at the big picture here. Invasion would negate the benefits of a prosperous island takeover(Taiwan's GDP is almost equal to PRC's) and they would also have to deal with the turmoutous local insurgency.

Im sure the Chinese has been hard at their abacus and has since figured out that its far easier and permanent to take over a people by their checkbooks.

The previous analogies to WWII does not hold because all territorial interventionin the 20th century has been unsuccessful and most importantly UNPROFITABLE. The chinese are not looking to vindicate Mein Kamf of any ideology, they are driven by profits and the quest for PLSMA TV and BMW.

Case and point, ask any mianlander if they care about 1989, and they will tell you it was wrong, but they would also tell you they have greater interestin mind, such as how to make more $$$$. Basically its:"Screw those idiots in 1989, im here to make my buck, there's alot more chinese where that came from.."

The argument of a democracy also does not hold becuase before 1980, Taiwan was not a democracy. Taiwan existed under martial law for arounf 25 years after the KMT landed. THe KMT also oppressed the natives or Kahas on the island which is why you see a shift towards the opposition party these days. p-)

Ah, in case any f you forgot, Japan and Korea wasnt really democratic for a long long time. In the case of Japan, the ruling Zaibatsus are reinstated to ward off communism and rule to tcountry until about late 1970's. As for Korea, there were still military coups up until the 80's. :fork:

Democacy is not based upon rights and ideals but a preservation of self interest. And in order for self interest to prevail, there have to be substantial amount of private property. If the populace is poor then they may very well vote for conquest and war. For example, would the mongols have voted to keep the conquest going in 1250 had they been a democracy? So they pillar of a civil democracy is private property and a stable and somewhat educated middle class. :bash:

Why would the chinese fight the russians over siberia? The Russians lack the capital to develop their resources. The Russians have been in a selling mode ever since the collapse of the USSR. There is no reason to believe they wont cooperate with the chinese in Siberian development. There is no conflict of interest and $$$$ there.

Aside from these factors war is likely. Utherwise, there will be a lot of rattling and not much chopping.

As for superpower-dom? Im sure the chinese will figure out a cheaper way of projecting power, war and deployment is a risky and expensive endeavor afterwall.

Mao was probably right when he said "power grows from the barrel of a gun." But control probably stems from the 15th and the 1st.

[J-10]

Quote my comment from another thread: China seek for territory integrity, it's right. Amost countries in the world include U.S. legalize Taiwan is a part of China, only one China in the world. And U.S. support "one China" policy. Unify China not means will change taiwan's life style, they are doing democracy test, that's OK, continue it.

No "Taiwan independence", no war. China will exert its "utmost efforts" to resolve the Taiwan issue by peaceful means, but will never tolerate independence for the island.

[Redragon]

About the invasion of the US, I think a direct assault on their territory would never result in a success, you were right, the infrastructure would allow its forces too mobilize very quickly. And theres that gay law that allows everybody to possess firearms :P. Allow them to own handguns, shotguns, rifles and assault rifles.... Prevented them from being invaded by one great power, probably will from another. The US can be paralyzed though... I notice that the entire country, every aspect of it is being run by a handful of places (New York, Cheyenne Mountain, Washington D.C. among others) And every attack however little it is on the continental US is a huge attack on their economy which is where the world has it by its balls :P. I think if you want to ruin that country, you first have to ruin its economy.

I wanna say that there should be more of a priority in disarming the world of nukes because everytime I hear the word war, I always know what word comes next :P

[PeoplesPoster]

I don't even understand how this invasion of US debate got started. Why in hell would China want to invade the US? It makes no strategic, political, or economic sense. So in other words it will never, ever happen.

[Sayeret]

The day will come when capitalism will make them powerful, and they'll be able to afford an impressive military. When they've reached that point, they may feel that they have more to gain than to lose from Taiwan.

Right now China's military doesn't seem too advanced and lacks too powerful of an air force. People always say they have the second most powerful military in the world but a lot of their weapons seem to be copies of American or Russian weapon. I bet Taiwan would survive a war against China because even though they have a small military they are more advanced than China and the US would support them. If China really wanted to take them over and was willing to loss a lot of troops and the US wasn't supporting Taiwan then they would probably take over Taiwan.