10 vs. 12 Round Handguns?

[Options465]

What's the reasoning behind restricting civilian hanguns to 10 rounds per mag as opposed to the 12 rounds allowed for LEOs and military issue handguns?

[American Patriot]

Only Sarah Brady knows.

[Tributal]

What's the reasoning behind restricting civilian hanguns to 10 rounds per mag as opposed to the 12 rounds allowed for LEOs and military issue handguns?Actually, the restriction covers rifles as well - if you buy a Bushmaster rifle you will receive a 10-round magazine with it (though most of the time you can only squeeze 9 into the ****ing thing.) Also LEO/military are allowed to have any capacity magazine they want (not sure where you got the 12 rounds from or if you just tried to illustrate that LEO/military are allowed more than 10?)

Aside from that I think American Patriot pretty much nailed it.

But if you want the offical reason try Google (http://www.google.com) and search for Sarah Brady, the Brady Bill or Handgun Control Inc.

To be quite honest I think this thread should be in the political section and not here in the gear section.

[Howitz]

http://www.bradycampaign.org/

wow. :cantbeli:
Check out the tv ad on that page. The flag draped coffin is clearly being carried by airmen. You'd think they could have at least stolen a photo from the right funeral.

[Options465]

Edited:


Reading through the Brady bill I can't help but notice that some of the articles within are like speed limits in some areas; It doesn't always have to make sense, but it's the law and you must follow it.

[Burncycle]

You can still get high capacity magazines and own them legally. from what I understand. Companies just can't sell them anymore. So if you have a friend who's got a bunch of 15 round mags for the beretta, IIRC it's perfectly legal to do a private transaction and purchase some (correct me if I'm wrong)

[FallenAngel]

^ you're wrong. :D At least in Kommiefornia that's the case. You can't even "inherit" magazines with 10+ rounds. The rational behind the bills is that if some person goes ape **** and takes a automatic to work/school/church/etc. he can only squeeze off ten rounds before reloading at which point someone might be brave/stupid enough to try and disarm him.

Course, this is really f*cking stupid for a few reasons. A- someone who's been practicing mag changes can get it done pretty damn quickly. B- most people wouldn't be thinking about disarming such a person, they'd be worried about saving their own ass by getting as far away as humanly possible. C- high capacity mags are not THAT hard to get if you really wanted them. D- and nutjob who would go ape**** and kill a bunch of people probably won't give a **** about some weapons' violation and would use those easily obtainable high-capacity mags anyways.

But, who said it had to make sense. Most guns used in crimes (something like 90% or higher) are bouught and sold on the black market.

Course, there are exceptions. In the same great state of Kommiefornia, .22 caliber weapons are not restricted to such low-capacity nonsense because some genius thinks a .22 is less dangerous than a .223. :cantbeli:

[Options465]

:roll: ;)

[Burncycle]

^ you're wrong. At least in Kommiefornia that's the case.

Glad I don't live there p-)

[Beardog]

I always tought it was to counter the European hi cap wonder nines like the Glock, Sig, Hk....... Because i have the choice to choose from a Glock 17 with a 10 round mag. limit and a well customized 1911, i will go for the 1911. Why choose an oversized pistol when the governement drops the limit from 17 to 10. I think many civilians make this choice and the American industry gets a new boost.

I know it wouldn't make sense on the rifles though.

[Tributal]

I always tought it was to counter the European hi cap wonder nines like the Glock, Sig, Hk....... Because i have the choice to choose from a Glock 17 with a 10 round mag. limit and a well customized 1911, i will go for the 1911. Why choose an oversized pistol when the governement drops the limit from 17 to 10. I think many civilians make this choice and the American industry gets a new boost.Well, hopefully now you know the sad truth - that it wasn't a government ploy to boost domestic production.

For those of you who we're too lazy to check out any of the links or do any research of your own (not saying Beardog is one of them - I just don't feel like making two separate posts) it comes down to this:

All was fine and dandy in the U.S. until John Hinckley tried to kill the president Ronald Reagan. Reagan did sustain a life threatening wound, though due to the quick actions of the Secret Service Reagan received prompt medical attention and soon regained his health. However, Reagan's press secretary, Jim Brady, was not that lucky - due to a severe gunshot wound to the head Mr Brady is now confined to a wheel chair. Mr Brady has continued to live a very productive life in the world of US politics, though he and his wife naturally changed their agenda a bit after the assasination attempt.

Instead of focusing on the fact that Hinckley had mental problems and an unhealthy obsession with the actress Jodie Foster that had gone undiagnosed, they focused on firearms instead. The Brady Law (or Brady Bill as it sometimes is referred to) mandates a fedaral background check prior to the purchase of handgun from a licensed dealer (FFL) . People with a criminal background or with a history of mental illness would thus be prevented from obtaining handguns. Of course, the law doesn't affect private sales...

After the Stockton Massacre, California passed a ban on "assault weapons" and hicap magazines, a ban that was later expanded to be nation-wide in 1994 with the federal Violent Crime and Control Act and the Assault Weapons Ban. These two federal legislations prevented the manufacture and distribution of any new hicap magazines intended for civilian use - they also banned the combination of several features that were deemed especially dangerous - pistolgrips, retractable stocks, bayonet lugs, flash hiders, and magazines that "conspiciously extend past the grip of the rifle". If you had a rifle or magazine manufactured before September 1994 this would become known as a "pre-ban" rifle or magazine - ie it is exempt from the aforementioned laws.

The Assault Weapons Ban was limited to only be in force for 10 years, so unless George W signs off on it again, "hi-cap" and "pre-ban" will soon become a thing of the past.


[Edited to replace store-bought with licensed dealer (FFL)]

[Whisper_44]

Good Post Trib...

9/14/2004 here we come..

[Geezah]

I 2nd that great post woot

Sept 14th here we come :hug:

[ChuckThunder]

http://www.bradycampaign.org/

wow. :cantbeli:
Check out the tv ad on that page. The flag draped coffin is clearly being carried by airmen. You'd think they could have at least stolen a photo from the right funeral.'

LMAO!

Also, I'm more worried about the guy with a .22 handgun hidden in his pants than the guy an AK sticking out of his jacket.

[Sayeret]

Actually, the restriction covers rifles as well - if you buy a Bushmaster rifle you will receive a 10-round magazine with it (though most of the time you can only squeeze 9 into the f*** thing.) Also LEO/military are allowed to have any capacity magazine they want (not sure where you got the 12 rounds from or if you just tried to illustrate that LEO/military are allowed more than 10?)

Aside from that I think American Patriot pretty much nailed it.

But if you want the offical reason try Google and search for Sarah Brady, the Brady Bill or Handgun Control Inc.

To be quite honest I think this thread should be in the political section and not here in the gear section.

The law stops the the gun companies from producing anything larger than 10-round magazine but its legal to buy a 30-round magazine that was created before the law.

[Tributal]

Actually, the restriction covers rifles as well - if you buy a Bushmaster rifle you will receive a 10-round magazine with it (though most of the time you can only squeeze 9 into the f*** thing.) Also LEO/military are allowed to have any capacity magazine they want (not sure where you got the 12 rounds from or if you just tried to illustrate that LEO/military are allowed more than 10?)

Aside from that I think American Patriot pretty much nailed it.

But if you want the offical reason try Google and search for Sarah Brady, the Brady Bill or Handgun Control Inc.

To be quite honest I think this thread should be in the political section and not here in the gear section.The law stops the the gun companies from producing anything larger than 10-round magazine but its legal to buy a 30-round magazine that was created before the law.
Okay, surely you didn't read the whole thread before making that post, now did you? :cantbeli:

[Durandal]

You can still get high capacity magazines and own them legally. from what I understand. Companies just can't sell them anymore. So if you have a friend who's got a bunch of 15 round mags for the beretta, IIRC it's perfectly legal to do a private transaction and purchase some (correct me if I'm wrong)

Depends on where you live.

At a federal level, not at all. Completely legal. I have several hi-cap mags for both rifles and pistols. All completely legal where I live and shoot.

But lets look at the State of Ohio. A less radical State, traditionally conservative and fairly pro-gun (relative to say California).

Pistols: Hi-Cap mags are fine so long as they are legal under federal law.

Rifles: Hi-Cap mags also legal so long as they are legal under federal law. EXCEPT: Mags over 30 rounds. Which means, regardless of wether the rifle is semi-automatic, it is considered a MACHINEGUN. :cantbeli:

But wait, it gets better...

In addition to the laws above, there are six cities (Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Toledo, and Akron) that have laws making ANY hi-capacity magazine illegal...10 rounds or less for both rifles and pistols. I know from friends' (plural) experiences that if they pull you over or see the gun they simply take it from you and do not cite you. Which still sucks, but the law is the law.

So, with that said, ask your local government for exact details. never ask cops, they often times do not know, believe it or not.

Every gun owner needs to know the laws. You could be driving ten minutes and actually commit a felony without every really knowing it.

*shudder*

Edit: The ban on hi-cap mags at the Federal level grandfathered in any mag built before the cut off date. A little note here on this. Bill Clinton had it on his desk for two solid weeks. He wasn't going to veto the bill. Everyone knew he wanted this turned into a law in a big way. For two weeks companies that produced hi-cap mags and "assault-rifles" churned out products at an unbelieveable rate while Clinto sat on his ass on vacation. rofl

Which is why pre-ban stuff, regardless of what it is, is STILL so easy to find, even if it is a bit pricier.

Edit 2: I am not a lawyer. You should check up on your local gun laws and NEVER use the internet as a source of legal counsel. :)

[Durandal]

I 2nd that great post woot

Sept 14th here we come :hug:

The motion succeeds...

Booo Ya!

A little bit more freedom.

[Options465]

:) :roll:

[MEGR]

Is this Sarah Brady serious? When the ban lifts, I wanna get a drum mag, and tape another drum mag to it.

[Beardog]

tributal,

Thanks for the insight. The impression we got on the subject over here in Europe was indeed a plot from the governement to counter the hi cap 9 mm made in Europe.

I hope mister Bush is going to do the right thing in September. It looks kind of silly, Ar-15 with a 10 round clip.

[Tributal]

Tributal, aside from the bitterness that was a good post.Thanks, but "the bitterness"?


A) You need to work on your people skills.Dude, you've been registered for a week, and you're basing your opinion of me on three posts in one thread? I'm starting to feel like I should sort you into the lazy-group after all. Even though you apparently did follow my suggestion about going "outside" for more info on the subject (and I applaud you for doing so) you were apparently too lazy to read any other posts of mine (in their context) before passing judgement on me?


B) Searching this forum for information before posting is one thing, but you almost make it sound like no questions should be posted in here since the information is "out there" (On the WWW). What are you talking about? The only time I referenced searching the net was in regards to finding the "official" reason for why we have the AWB. The reason I suggested Google for finding that info is because my experience is that this would provide for a less biased answer than what you would be able to get here (pro-gun people are biased one way, anti-gun people the other - sampling Google would provide you with answers from both).


Surely, this is a forum where everyone can post their opinions and share knowledge at the same time instead of being bullied by persons like you.Who the hell did I bully?! What in my posts did you find bullying? My half-sentence comment in my second post about lazy people was in regards to those people who had followed the thread but not searched for the background on the VVCA and the AWB.

My third post, which was directed to Sayaret, was in regards to the fact that his post was completely redundant, and that if he had not been too lazy to read the whole thread before making his post he would've known that (see where my comment about lazy people just became justified?) It would serve many well to read through entire threads before making any posts of their own, thus preventing redundant posts with information that has already been stated by others.

I hate to crush your view of the online-population, but many if not most will not follow links that go outside the thread they are reading. Given the fact that we have 20 posts but 685 viewings should tell you that there is good basis for my assumption of there being a few lazy people checking this thread out. That we've only had one "lazy person" actually posts should be noted as something out of the ordinary. In light of that, if you still feel I was being a bully to Sayaret, well that's just too bad.


If every time someone wanted to know something about a piece of equipment or any other military related matter and they spent hours on Google trying to find that information, not only is it a waste of everyone's time, but forums will not exist, people won't have a place to share experiences and no one will be able to post their opinion.I agree but, and I hate to burst your bubble, MilitaryPhotos.net is not a good source for political information (the Brady Campaign and the laws I've mentioned have more to do with politics than with technical issues.) So when questions arise about such matters I would really suggest that people search for boards/forums that specialize in such matters rather than limiting themselves to this website.


Perhaps next time when you want someone to listen to you you could try it with more assertiveness. In your second post in this thread you sound like you want to beat everyone into submission. :roll:Really? "Beat everyone into submission"? How's that? I really think you're reading more into my posts than there is to them. Let's do another recount:
Post No 1: I explain that the AWB covers rifles as well as handguns. I also point out that LEO/military are not limited to just 12 rounds - and I even took care to tell you why I pointed this out in a paranthesis. How rude of me!

Post No 2: I reply to Beardog's statement that he previously thought this was some sort of government way of shielding the US gunmanufacturers from the european wonder-nines. Since we at this point only had 11 posts but a few hundred viewings of this thread, and having been around long enough to know how some people behave - ie being lazy - I figured I might as well write a summary of the information people would've found if they indeed googled on their own or followed any of the links. My "bullying" was limited to half a sentence pointing out that "for those of you who we're too lazy..."

Post No 3: Sayaret indeed proves my point that we have lazy people here - people even too lazy to read the entire thread, though it only consists 14 posts, before making redundant posts of their own. My comment about people being too lazy to do "outside" research into the subject at hand should at this point be proven - if someone doesn't even read the whole thread, then how can you expect them to take the time to go find accurate information on their own?

Now since we live in a civil society, please remember this, knowledge is NEVER a substitute for good manners or a jovial disposition.Like I said in my second paragraph - you might want to read more of my posts than the ones in this thread before you pass any kind of judgement on my perceived need for "good manners or a jovial disposition." That and give "Shiny Happy People" a rest for a few hours.
rofl

[Options465]

:roll:

[Tributal]

It was very nice of you to take the effort and write a summary for (I'm paraphrasing) all those who were too lazy to Google the information on their own. But, I know a few people that would call this "and having been around long enough to know how some people behave - ie being lazy" an assumption. I can see how you can draw from your own experiences and come to that conclusion though. Assumption and experience is not the same thing. My actions were based on my experience here at MilitaryPhotos.net. In time you will gain experience as well, and maybe you will learn the same things that I have. Time will tell.


Finally, Where in my post did I mention anything about Sayaret's post?Nowhere. I mentioned Sayaret's post because A) it was only in my response to him that I came close to being border-line rude to anyone, and B) his post served as proof that people indeed are too lazy to read whole threads. This made the case for me in regards to how some people, contrary to what you may hope and wish for, are extremely lazy. Conclusion: by bringing up Sayaret's post I was offering proof for my argument.

Like I said in my previous post I fail to see how I was being rude or bitter to anyone. I guess you somehow felt a need to be offended on the behalf of those who indeed are too lazy to read whole threads and/or do any outside investigation into the subject at hand (or others for that matter.) Most people in your shoes (that would be someone who actually did read the whole thread and did some research of their own) would have read that half sentence and realized that "hey, he's not talking about me", chuckle a bit and then let it go.

To be quite honest I think you really need to follow your own advice and lighten up some.

Basically you made a ****load of assumptions about me based on that half sentence. I would suggest that you spend a little more time on military-related forums before you comment on people's need for a cheerful disposition. Feel free to visit SOCNET sometime. ;) If you go back and check my posts in other threads you will note that I more often than not start out in a very respectful manner and only if warranted will use a harsher tone. After all, I could have made that half sentence sound a lot worse than I did; all I did now was to sprinkle a healthy dose of sarcasm over it - as I'm wanton to do.

[Options465]

I'm putting this one to rest. You win, ok? I'm starting to have a headache.

I gotta go woot "Shiny happy people" is playing on VH1 now.

[Geezah]

In addition to the laws above, there are six cities (Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Toledo, and Akron) that have laws making ANY hi-capacity magazine illegal...10 rounds or less for both rifles and pistols. I know from friends' (plural) experiences that if they pull you over or see the gun they simply take it from you and do not cite you. Which still sucks, but the law is the law.


Your not allowed to own assault weapons if you live in the City of Dayton, it's not illegal to travel though with Assaullt weapons. Also I think the same applies to the pistol high caps, I'm good to go into Dayton with 15rnd magazine but I'm not sure about if I live there.

By the way I thought I throw this in, I completed my 12hrs of training over the weekend to get my CCW woot