f-14 scheduled to retire?

[el borracho]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but I came across this article. Does anyone have any futher info?

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=24037

[Durandal]

They've been retiring 'em for some time now... a group here and group there.

[Burncycle]

Indeed, IIRC a squadron a year was being retired since before 2000

[kutter]

Right now only the F-14B and D are in service. The scheduled retirement date for the last examples is 2008.

[AFACadet]

All pilots going though Top Gun right now are Super Bug pilots as well :|

[HoboWithAK]

I want a new weps system to replace the AIM-54. And have variants for both the Navy and the Air Force. You can't tell me that making BVR missile kills at 100+ KM isn't a good tool for morale.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Dunno about the significance of the Phoenix any more. That I know of, the Navy has never scored a kill with one (one source says that the only time the US has ever fired one was during Gulf War I - at a Mil helicopter, and missed). With all the IFF/blue on blue issues of today, it's hard to imagine getting authorization to fire at something 100km away. My .02. . .

[HoboWithAK]

Not in total war, there is no need to question blue on blue. You get a radar contact, confirm no friendlies in that area if you want to, and fire.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Not in total war, there is no need to question blue on blue. You get a radar contact, confirm no friendlies in that area if you want to, and fire.

Whaaa? IFF if you want to? And what about civilian traffic? Remember the Stark shooting down an Iranian airliner that wasn't supposed to be there, but was?

The only time I can remotely imagine such a scenario would be in the event of a massed attack against a CBG..with 20, 30 raids all following the same path. With the Soviet threat gone, I can't see that happening any time soon. But even then, when all the smoke cleared, the pilots and fire control personnel would have to answer for what they did. Who would volunteer to kill innocents and destroy their careers when they could just use another missile?

The proof is really in the pudding. The Navy evidently was uncomfortable with employing the Phoenix as well, since they only fired one all this time. By the time they could positively ID their target, it was inside the range of other systems.

I hope the super bug is everything it's cracked up to be. I've sort of lost track of it's development & deployment...gotta go check fas.org....

[Ratamacue]

From what my brother has been able to tell me from the briefings he gets through ROTC, the Super Hornet is a damn good aircraft. Even though it's not as strong an interceptor as the Tomcat, it's a much better multi-role fighter.

[HoboWithAK]

There are some people these days that think our entire military needs to shift to small theater wars "on terror". That's bull****. The F-14 and it's AIM-54 were part of a plan to down Soviet wave attacks on CBGs during the Cold War. So, the cold war is over. What about the Chinese? There is no replacement for detterrent, and that is what the AIM-54 provided. Launch 6 missiles that can down 6 large bombers at or over 100KM, and that is simply the firepower of one plane. It really has no place in a "war on terror" type theater, but it's place in a CBG should not be terminated.

[Ratamacue]

In case you haven't really read above dude, the AIM-54 wasn't a particularly effective missile. It's loss won't really be a very tragic one.

[Helly]

In case you haven't really read above dude, the AIM-54 wasn't a particularly effective missile. It's loss won't really be a very tragic one.

The AIM-54 IS an effective missile. Just ask the Iranians and their Iraqi targets. ;)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

In case you haven't really read above dude, the AIM-54 wasn't a particularly effective missile. It's loss won't really be a very tragic one.

The AIM-54 IS an effective missile. Just ask the Iranians and their Iraqi targets. ;)

The US military is not the Iranian military. If we used the same criteria, we would have used a lot more than one Phoenix over the last 30 years. Did anybody else notice that - we used -one- . And it missed.

That is not to say that it's a bad missile - it's simply an outdated concept. Just like you can't just walk into a darkened room full of people and indiscriminantly start shooting into the dark, you can't fire missiles at people who are 100km away. At least not with current technology.

Who's going to stick their neck out in procurement to justify a system who's release criteria are so restricted that it's been used once? Compare that to the various flavors of AIM-120, AIM-7, AIM-9. Hell, even an A-10 shot down a helo in Iraq - and that's an air to ground platform. It's got a better air to air record than the Phoenix.

[Coban03]

im sad to seem em go...they were the stars of topgun :D

[Pandy]

Does anyone know what we'll do with our surplus F-14, maybe sell them to Iraq or another country or something? huh?

[FallenAngel]

Probably go to Davis-Monthan AFB and either mothballed or scrapped like everything else...including the F-14s retired in the '90s due to budget cuts which reduced F-14 squadrons to one per carrier.

http://home.zonnet.nl/rcpranger/Arizona-Graveyard-F-14-Tomcats-2.jpg

http://www.strategic-air-command.com/bases/images/davis-monthan_afb_aerial1.jpg

http://www.merc.mercer.edu/mercinternet/projects/photos/20.jpg

More here: http://gallery.colofinder.net/albums/aircraft/davis_monthan_AFB_AMARC.jpg

[HoboWithAK]

In case you haven't really read above dude, the AIM-54 wasn't a particularly effective missile. It's loss won't really be a very tragic one.

Alright, but i'm saying the niche is now empty and needs to be filled again. Preferably by a better missile.

[Helly]

In case you haven't really read above dude, the AIM-54 wasn't a particularly effective missile. It's loss won't really be a very tragic one.

The AIM-54 IS an effective missile. Just ask the Iranians and their Iraqi targets. ;)

The US military is not the Iranian military. If we used the same criteria, we would have used a lot more than one Phoenix over the last 30 years. Did anybody else notice that - we used -one- . And it missed.

You have to consider that USN Tomcats haven't really seen that much A2A action compared to USAF Eagles. The last time US pilots have to face a credible fighter threat was during Operation Desert Storm, and F-15s did most of the killing that time 'coz they were the ones in front escorting the strike packages. A grand total of 10 F-14s took part in actual combat during the opening night compared to 96 F-15s. F-14s were used mostly for recon (TARPS) and when they were doing CAP, it was mostly over water, controlled by AEGIS cruisers, not AWACS.

BTW, it wasn't just one Phoenix. Two were also used against Iraqi planes entering the southern no-fly zones during the late 90's. No hits. Just like there were no hits when USAF fighters fired 1 AIM-7 and 3 AMRAAMs that very same day. Report (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/stories/nofly010699.htm)


That is not to say that it's a bad missile - it's simply an outdated concept. Just like you can't just walk into a darkened room full of people and indiscriminantly start shooting into the dark, you can't fire missiles at people who are 100km away. At least not with current technology.

In a total war, yes you can. AWACS can detect targets flying way farther than 100km away, and so can AEGIS. If you've got a bunch of supersonic bombers going after your battle group, you better make sure you can shoot down those suckers before they can launch their surface-to-air missiles. By the time the Super Hornets with their woefully short range are able to launch AMRAAMS at the bombers, it'll be too late and you already have missiles inbound.


Who's going to stick their neck out in procurement to justify a system who's release criteria are so restricted that it's been used once? Compare that to the various flavors of AIM-120, AIM-7, AIM-9. Hell, even an A-10 shot down a helo in Iraq - and that's an air to ground platform. It's got a better air to air record than the Phoenix.

The "release criteria" is created by the powers-that-be, not the missile itself. Take away the "release criteria" (like in a total war where no civilian aircrafts will be flying) and the Phoenix will shine. The Phoenix is a long-range missile, but it's also effective against fighter-sized targets in the 20km to 50km range.

Anyway, just go to acig.org for more *confirmed* reports regarding Phoenix usage and effectiveness.