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View Full Version : Norwegian, female soldier ordered to swim ***** with fellow male soldier



Fiber
11-17-2011, 08:10 AM
A female soldier was ordered to swim ***** along her male comrades during an exercise. She followed orders under protest after asking her lt. to bathe in another part of the river or with bra and briefs on. She felt abused and filed a report to the local police.

Translated by google: "All the soldiers had to wash the ****** in the icy water." I'm pretty sure the 30 boys didn't have to wash the vag but had to wash their own junk instead.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.an.no%2Fnyheter%2Farticle5810668.ece&act=url

Sure, if you sign up for military service you should do what you are told but to order a female to swim ***** and rub her unmentionables while the boys are rubbing theirs is pretty stupid. It is bound to create a **** storm. I personally think the lt. should have had the brains to let it slide.

flanker7
11-17-2011, 08:14 AM
But they want equal rights, this means equal oblications and duties. I'm not talking about this particular case as I don't know all the details but I don't loke the idea of women in combat units

Honneur et Patrie
11-17-2011, 08:19 AM
Just another argument for feminists to bash the machist armed forces and the rapists-in-being male soldiers... and another argument for chauvinists to criticize the feminization process! Everybody is happy!:roll:

By the way, it seemed to me that nordic people didn't have the same reluctancy about nudity as the latin people?

tea drinker
11-17-2011, 08:31 AM
Sounds like a major breakdown in trust or maybe just brains. Shw was unable to operate in normal training situation no? Why? This is more important than feelings post factum

muck
11-17-2011, 08:50 AM
I don't get Google's translation. Was she wearing underwear or not? If yes, what's the big deal? That'd be perfectly normal over here during bivouac.

Was she expecting to get a folding screen in a field exercise?

Fiber
11-17-2011, 08:59 AM
She was ordered to bathe ***** and was her *******s along with the male soldiers. She asked if she could wear underwear or go to a more secluded part of the river for some privacy. She wasn't allowed any of that.

Piirka
11-17-2011, 09:01 AM
Equal treatment - you want it, or not?

Btw: Is communal ******* washing in icy fjord some norwegian tradition? ;)

Fisker
11-17-2011, 09:04 AM
1. Why go to the police with this? The MP's would be much more suitable to turn to. They know the Army regulations.
2. If it was indeed an illegal order to give, according to Norwegian army regulations, she should have refused to do it. She would win any case easily afterwards.




But they want equal rights, this means equal oblications and duties. I'm not talking about this particular case as I don't know all the details but I don't
loke the idea of women in combat units

What has that got to do with anything? It doesn't say anywhere which unit she's in.

Fiber
11-17-2011, 09:26 AM
Equal treatment - you want it, or not?

Btw: Is communal ******* washing in icy fjord some norwegian tradition? ;)

What's equal treatment? It's not like its instrumental to a soldiers training to be able to wash your *******s in an icy river, traditions be damned! I'm pretty sure you can find something any soldier would be very reluctant to do and order him/her to do it in the name of equal treatment. Lot's of people are particular about who they get ***** in front of and if it's not hampering their job performance, why order them to *****?

She was in an air defense unit not some sort of arctic, nüde ninja squad out of a 007-novel. They sit indoors tracking bleeps on radar screens. If they ever go out it's to smoke a *** or man the Robot 70.

Piirka
11-17-2011, 09:36 AM
What's equal treatment? It's not like its instrumental to a soldiers training to be able to wash your *******s in an icy river, traditions be damned! I'm pretty sure you can find something any soldier would be very reluctant to do and order him/her to do it in the name of equal treatment. Lot's of people are particular about who they get ***** in front of and if it's not hampering their job performance, why order them to *****?

She was in an air defense unit not some sort of arctic, nüde ninja squad out of a 007-novel. They sit indoors tracking bleeps on radar screens. If they ever go out it's to smoke a *** or man the Robot 70.

You admit the existance of norwegian nudé ninja squads? ;)

If the training doesn't require ******* washing in icy water, is it a gender issue, or isn't that as demeaning to the dudes too?

Einhander
11-17-2011, 09:37 AM
Cue "Starship Troopers" shower scene.

Let her read the book btw.

Scarren
11-17-2011, 09:42 AM
Btw: Is communal ******* washing in icy fjord some norwegian tradition? ;)

Its called Commando wash... more or less everyone in scandinavia experienced it, during basic... something with removing mental barrier..

muck
11-17-2011, 09:43 AM
Cue "Starship Troopers" shower scene.

Let her read the book btw.In Scandinavia and elsewhere there are actually militaries or law enforcement agencies that do not practice segregated personal hygiene. The scene depicted is way different from that, though.

Fiber
11-17-2011, 09:45 AM
Its called Commando wash... more or less everyone in scandinavia experienced it, during basic... something with removing mental barrier..
Well, our unit never did. I did take nüde baths everyday during the Joint Winter exercise, but that was voluntarily and in snow, not water.

PEMM
11-17-2011, 09:48 AM
Oh this is nothing.

I remember one case in which female soldier shouted ****** harassment for being women up for guards duty.

Having things done their way always adds some extra work.

Sarig
11-17-2011, 09:52 AM
In Scandinavia and elsewhere there are actually militaries or law enforcement agencies that do not practice segregated personal hygiene. The scene depicted is way different from that, though.

Not in this part of Scandinavia. And for everyone screaming equal rights. What's equal when there's one woman, and 30+ guys?

Scarren
11-17-2011, 09:54 AM
Well, our unit never did. I did take nüde baths everyday during the Joint Winter exercise, but that was voluntarily and in snow, not water.

Sorry.. in DK it`s standard procedure....

Fiber
11-17-2011, 10:00 AM
DK is the tropics. Doesn't count.

UJB
11-17-2011, 10:05 AM
If the officer in charge of this did it to singler her out, then it was pretty much an ***hole thing to do and it should be reported (although why not up the chain of command I don't know); if it was simply a case of a run of the mill scenario, then there are ways to get the job done while protecting everyone's dignity, and she needs to toughen up.

**** Norwegian ninjas huh? So that's y'alls secret weapon.

Scarren
11-17-2011, 10:06 AM
DK is the tropics. Doesn't count.

Whats the topic female rights.. ?

Seek
11-17-2011, 10:11 AM
What's the goal in this exercse? Getting used to be ***** around others, or getting used to washing in cold water?

Scarren
11-17-2011, 10:16 AM
What's the goal in this exercse? Getting used to be ***** around others, or getting used to washing in cold water?

Too make sure the soldier wash and change socks even if its -10 celsius outside.. :)

Fiber
11-17-2011, 10:16 AM
Lieutenant Colonel Bent-Ivan Myhre who is the spokeperson for the defence chief called it unacceptable that a soldier was forced to undress and bathe in front of others.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10031593

Scarren: For me it's not about gender. It's about officers using thinking things through and considering the soldiers well being and even their feelings. The point of the exercise was to train the soldiers in field hygiene. There are ways to do that that doesn't hurt anyone's feelings. You can of course go the Gung ho route and just tell everyone to drop their clothes and get in the cold water but then you might wind up one the front page of the tabloids.

The military is not disconnected from the civilian world. Most people in the military actually where civilians before they joined the military and if the military wants people to join they should stop acting like idiots, like this lt. did.

I know there are lot of great people in the Norwegian armed forces, heck I used to be one of them, but there are some imbeciles too.

Piirka
11-17-2011, 10:18 AM
Well, she'll need to live closely with those guys. Better get used to it. You can't always cater to everyone's special needs.

UJB
11-17-2011, 10:23 AM
Well, to a certain extent, once you enter the military your personal feelings be %%%%ed. However, if not prodded into a no-win situation, the troops usually find a workable solution on their own even with a gung ho attitude, which should have been encouraged here (that may be the offending piece of this: did the officer in charge not allow that to happen? in which case that is a more serious leadership faux pas).
I'm sure the males had just as little desire to be airing their cold temperature inhibited tackle in front of a female as the lone female had of doing the same, so they probably could have worked something out.

Universals
11-17-2011, 10:23 AM
I don't get Google's translation. Was she wearing underwear or not? If yes, what's the big deal? That'd be perfectly normal over here during bivouac.

Was she expecting to get a folding screen in a field exercise?

why should she wear underwear when the guys aren't. If the guys are *****, then so should the girl. The only thing that seems fair to me is to let everyone including the guys wear their briefs ( but that would mean altering a standard exercise)....Alternatively, they should organize her own excessive seperate for her alone during which she would have go through exact same process as did the guys (but that's extra resources spent to accommodate a single soldier).

Scarren
11-17-2011, 10:25 AM
Lieutenant Colonel Bent-Ivan Myhre who is the spokeperson for the defence chief called it unacceptable that a soldier was forced to undress and bathe in front of others.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10031593

Scarren: For me it's not about gender. It's about officers using thinking things through and considering the soldiers well being and even their feelings. The point of the exercise was to train the soldiers in field hygiene. There are ways to do that that doesn't hurt anyone's feelings. You can of course go the Gung ho route and just tell everyone to drop their clothes and get in the cold water but then you might wind up one the front page of the tabloids.

The military is not disconnected from the civilian world. Most people in the military actually where civilians before they joined the military and if the military wants people to join they should stop acting like idiots, like this lt. did.

I know there are lot of great people in the Norwegian armed forces, heck I used to be one of them, but there are some imbeciles too.

I agree.. but i am used toO that officers lead by examples.. So the officer is butt ***** like the rest... if not, and the officer is clothed, and orders others to get *****.. I am incliened to agree that that is not kosher...

Hollis
11-17-2011, 10:47 AM
But they want equal rights, this means equal oblications and duties. I'm not talking about this particular case as I don't know all the details but I don't loke the idea of women in combat units

Has nothing to do with equal rights.

JRT
11-17-2011, 11:57 AM
But they want equal rights, this means equal oblications and duties. I'm not talking about this particular case as I don't know all the details but I don't loke the idea of women in combat units

Define combat units.

Dufus old hag
11-17-2011, 12:05 PM
In a way, this is some what of a harassment. Knowing how most men are in the military, they would probably brag about seeing that individual female soldier ***** with their buddies and taunt them into revealing their body parts.

Also, just because one individual of an opposite gender refused to follow order which she sees as an inappropriate act doesn't mean anyone here have the rights to taunt her about Equality. You guys are acting like this was some kind of BUD/S training or Q-Course where there is no exception for anyone when it was suppose to just be a regular field exercise. Not that I'm oppose to the training, but they should atleast have different gender instructors similar to the US Military to avoid this type of uproar.

Piirka
11-17-2011, 12:21 PM
If we want to have full integration of women into the military on equal terms, segregation can't be the answer. Do people need to be re-indoctrinated to consider *****ness in normal versus ****** situations? Maybe all people of the world need finnish sauna culture... ;)

Leaper
11-17-2011, 12:27 PM
The women in My battalion/company/platoon never complained. And we washed ourselfs in the ocean/some lake plenty of times

Blasphemy
11-17-2011, 12:29 PM
your all beating this to death, im in a mixed s3x unit and in the field the females simply just wander off to a different part of the woods to conduct "hygiene time" its not that big a deal, i don't see what is so hard about this. If she was the only female, just grant her request to "go to a more secluded part of the river" its training, not a combat environment...hajji ain't gonna slit her throat while shese washing her unmentionables.

Sounds to me like the Officer in Charge was just an idiot and didn't want to make a special consideration for a situation that warranted it.

flanker7
11-17-2011, 12:56 PM
Has nothing to do with equal rights.

True. As the thread evolved I realized this, however, as I wrote, I was not talking about this particular case as I don't know much about it, but my comment was based on my initial impression that this was another feminist cry.

flanker7
11-17-2011, 01:00 PM
Define combat units.

Infantry type units mosly. But also other combat arms. Those that require phisical effort and not paper pushing

JRT
11-17-2011, 02:34 PM
Infantry type units mosly. But also other combat arms. Those that require phisical effort and not paper pushing

What combat arms? So a guy in a tank is not a combat dude, since driving the thing aint't exactly running a marathon? Is a fighter pilot a combat dude? A sniper? What about a sailor who fires a gun? Combat engineers? ATGM teams? MANPADS teams? Mortar dudes? Artillery? The driver of an APC? The gunner of an IFV? A sailor steering the boat or a friggin aircraft carrier? Medium to heavy air defence missile operator? A radar operator? A fighter controller? Land-based anti-ship missile operator? The guy who pushes the red button that launches ICBM's? UAV operator? ELINT operator? Is an infantry platoon leader a combat dude? Company CO? Battalion CO? Brigade CO? Division CO?

The division to combat arms and combat support arms is artificial and has no basis on it. The battlefield is not two dimensional, it's at least 3D, some argue that the EW sphere is the 4th dimension etc. Separating troops on the basis of the range of their primary weaponry or the amount of physical effort is idiocy, as the most defining asset of a warrior is his mind.


Sorry for the offtopic, but where the F are the pics???

Pics or it didn't happen FFS. Norwegian chicks are hawt.

muck
11-17-2011, 02:40 PM
Infantry type units mosly. But also other combat arms. Those that require phisical effort and not paper pushingYou make it sound like anybody but an infanteer does only paper-pushing and lacks the physical strength required for proper soldiering.
Never underestimate the supporters who shell your targets, make your vehicles run, give you ammo to shoot as well as meals to eat and patch you up once the **** hit the fan.

I'm with JRT on this one.

Shark with freaking laser
11-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Sorry for the offtopic, but where the F are the pics???

Pics or it didn't happen FFS. Norwegian chicks are hawt.

She is all over the newspapers.

165251

flanker7
11-17-2011, 02:45 PM
In the Greek military combat arms are Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Signals, Engineers and Army Aviation. No disrespect for any branch. I answered to JRT via pm and I'll leave it here to not derail the thread