French commercial interests behind Iraq stance

[budanski]

LONDON, Feb 23 (AFP) - 02:40 GMT - French President Jacques Chirac's diplomatic campaign to block war with Iraq is merely the product of French commmercial interests masquerading as a moral case for peace, a top Pentagon adviser said Sunday.

"What you're hearing is what the French President perceives to be in the interests of France. And the French president has found his own way of dealing with Saddam Hussein," Richard Perle said in an interview with The Observer.

"It would be counter to French interests to destroy that cosy relationship and replace it with a hostile one," Perle said.

The remarks follow anger in Washington at France, which earlier this month -- with German and Belgian support -- opposed US requests that NATO boost defenses for Turkey in the event of war with Iraq.

Both France and Germany have taken a strong stand against a US-led war on Baghdad.

According to Perle, the French position against regime change in Iraq is fatally undermined by its multi-billion-dollar oil interests negotiated since the last Gulf war in 1991, The Observer said.

"There's certainly a large French commercial interest in Iraq, and there are contracts that a new government in Iraq may not choose to uphold, partly because they're so unfavourable to the people of Iraq," Perle told the paper.

"Saddam has been prepared to do deals to keep himself in power at the expense of the people," he said.

"My understanding of the largest of these deals, which is the French Total-Fina-Elf contract to develop certain oil properties in Iraq, is that it is both very large and very unfavourable to the Iraqis," Perle said.

The Pentagon adviser said he was "rather pessimistic that we (the US) will get French support for a second resolution authorising war.

"I think they will exercise their veto, and in other ways obstruct unified action by the Security Council: they're lobbying furiously now," he told the paper.

Talk about blood for oil.

Right out of the liberal handbook: Accuse the other side of what you're really for and soon enough people will start believing it. If this were true with the accusations against the U.S., wouldn't you think it would of been cheaper for the U.S. to lift the sanctions and deal with Sadaam directly? Or better yet, keep the oil fields after the last Gulf War.

[StarvingStudent47]

Let's not make this a "liberal versus conservative" thing.

I'm a die-hard liberal who supports war with Iraq, knows about French oil interests, and is thoroughly disgusted with Jacques Chirac.

[FallenAngel]

i am a die- hard conservative who supports the war on Iraq, I also know about French oil interest, and I am thoroughly digusted with Chirac too.

I wonder if the US will try a "regime change" in France when we're done with Iraq :D

[OzMan]

I am 99.5% conservative, .5% centrist. So that little .25% is the liberal inside me. I am learning to speak French, and my teacher just got back from a three-month stay in Paris, so every day in there is a living hell, also because it is my second hour class, so I'm still pissed off at my alarm clock by then. She makes us watch French news, which also sucks because they speak so damn fast and it's all about French politics. One of these days I will explode in there. I have to either speak the French I know to her or keep my mouth shut, and sometimes I can't hold back. That is the only reason why I want to learn the language (besides evading the other "foreign" language of Spanish and I need to for grauation credits), so I can just tell her what the hell is happening in the world. :backhand:

[Sir Nob]

Bloody frogs, who needs them anyway. Have they ever won a battle or campaign? Napolean was the only decent warrior they ever had, and he got beat at Waterloo. The French Foreign Legion is the only competent military force from France, and thats because very few of them are French! On the other hand they do have good wine.

[budanski]

You mean great whiners

[GazB]

I think there is one Legionare you'd respect...

I don't really know what conservative and liberal are.

I know about French oil interests in the region, and about Russian oil interests in the region.

If the US really cared about the Iraqi people it would have killed Saddam 20 or 30 years ago. It doesn't. If it really wanted democracy in the region it would have stopped supporting the ProUS monarchy in Saudi Arabia (you know... the guys who made up more than 70% of the hijackers that killed people on 11/9, but noone cares cause they flipflop faster than a Springfield politician) and not interfered with free and fair elections in Iran all those years ago.
What the US wants is for there to be lots of little oil producers. Its economy is based on oil. If there were a problem with the supply... whether the US gets their oil from there or not then the price goes up. It doesn't matter if the US got all its oil from Venesuala, Alaska, and Russia, if Saddam had control of Kuwaiti oil and he shares a rather large border with Saudi Arabia he could easily control the price by himself. He has a history of not doing as he is told. Far too dangerous for the US to sit back and allow that.

If you support Isreal you will not support the invasion of Iraq.

(I can see it now a Palestinian state will be the price for a US presence in Iraq).

On the positive side a quick war will have the potential to be one of the first free wars... they could increase oil production for a few months and drop the price of oil to the point where they save more than it cost them to go to war.

Of course they can't give the Iraqis real freedom, or the Kurds in the north will want independance and they can't have that for some very fundamental reasons... the the rest of Kurdistan is in Iran and Turkey... the US could care less whether the Kurds take a piece of Iran, but Turkey is a member of NATO and they are bound to defend its boundries.

[100%Marine]

Be warned that in the media the French and their apologists have been skirting their economic ties with Iraq with a new spin. While their trade with Iraq accounts for some $300M/year , many French state that their intensions with Iraq could not be economic since trade with us accounts for billions. Their stand for Iraq thus is an economic disaster by jepordizing their economic security. Bull, this yearly quote doesnt calculate the billions the Saddam regime owes French businesses, a figure that ranges between $3-5 billion from over numerous years, about 10-15. Remember western technology flows from Paris to Baghdad. Much of Iraqi intrastructure such as cable lines and computers are French. So dont buy into the new French spin.

[Ratamacue]

Even if our interests are to have some control over oil facilities, what's so horrible about that if we are liberating the Iraqis at the same time?

But you really have to realize that at the moment, oil is an absolute necessity. We need it for gasoline, all types of lubrication, plastics/polymers, among infinitely many other things.

Also, if our only interests in the Middle East have been oil, why didn't we take possession of some Kuwaiti oil fields after the 1991 Gulf War?

And why is it so hard to believe that we aren't going to war over Hussein? The man has been a thorn in the world's ass for the past 12 years. You can always say that he's been complying with inspections, but you know he isn't. The reason he let the inspectors discover the Al-Samoud missiles was so that people would have reason to believe he's starting to cooperate and that he had nothing else besides that. Bull****.

You know he has biological weapons. He's used them on his own people. You know he has chemical weapons. He's used them on his own people. Not to mention that he even authorized his military to use them in case of a US Military attack...how is that in itself not evidence?

[Scrim]

The Frogs sold Iraq their nuclear reactor, can you imagine what we'd be facing today if the Israeli Air Force hadnt blown it to ****e back in the 80s?

[100%Marine]

The Israelis actually didnt destroy the French built reactor, since they didnot destroy the inner casing of the reactor. Im quoting Khadir Hamza the writer of Saddam's Bombmaker. Actually, someone, nobody knows who, gained access to the core during its construction and blew a hole in its outer casing. The speculation is that the Israelis did that one. Anyway the French made money off the Iraqi nuclear bomb project.

[PATHFINDER]

it all comes down to business, whichever side you look at, U.S. or france...

nobody here is the "white knight" out to save the world.

politicians are scum.


france has interests in iraq, so does USA... We should really be worried about North Korea, theres a place that needs a 'nice regime change'

[GazB]

"Even if our interests are to have some control over oil facilities, what's so horrible about that if we are liberating the Iraqis at the same time? "

You mean like the Marsh arabs in the south and the Kurds in the north that rose up against saddam when the US asked them to and were crushed by saddams forces... he drained the southern marshes by building dams.
I can understand that pressure from Turkey who were also fighting and killing Kurds and a NATO member might have influenced the US decision to leave the Kurds and Marsh Arabs swinging in the breese but it was still a very nasty thing to do.

Now you want to go in for them?
Of course when Saddam gassed the Kurds in the 80s the US were very vocal in their support... for Saddam... the US state department blamed the Iranians.

But now you care about the Iraqi people...

[Ratamacue]

Maybe. Times, people, and governments change.

What I don't get is why you people are so against removing Saddam Hussein from power. What good is it doing leaving him in power as one of the more oppressive dictators in the world?

[PATHFINDER]

this is interesting: http://www.idleworm.com/nws/2002/11/iraq2.shtml
and frightening...

its not about Hussein, its about POWER BALANCE in that region.. its like WW1 almost.. where you have these powers contesting in 1 area Gulf (or 1914 Europe), one goes down, others try to snatch up remains creating turmoil.. and prolly worst things later on.. ex WW2 or Gulf War 3?.......
I have no idea how we will stabalize that region after Iraq.. so many competing interests... its like the Balkans, only much worse...

I just hope we wont lose many Allied lives when it comes to it.

[redondomarine]

Well I dont see what is happening in that site ever happening in real life. Maybe we will make an enemie or two but what are you going to do. Nobody over there really likes us anyway. Also by that time we will probably have a lot of misile defence programs up. There are some i know of that would make it stupid to try and launch at one of our allies or at the US.

As far as the french go, is the friend of enimy our enimy? Bush said that any country who harbors terrorist should be taken out. Im not saying invade france, but its just an interesting thought.

[GazB]

"What I don't get is why you people are so against removing Saddam Hussein from power. What good is it doing leaving him in power as one of the more oppressive dictators in the world?"

Call me old fashioned but I prefer the old way. If the US doesn't like saddam they should support his opponents with money and weapons and let them do it. There is nothing democratic about going in and changing a government because the current regime doesn't suit your current needs.
The US already supports many dictators with records far worse than Saddam, what difference is one more?

The Iraqis haven risen up and taken him out, his neighbours aren't doing anything to stop him... why should we... even the ones we help will not thank us.

[GazB]

"What I don't get is why you people are so against removing Saddam Hussein from power. What good is it doing leaving him in power as one of the more oppressive dictators in the world?"

Call me old fashioned but I prefer the old way. If the US doesn't like saddam they should support his opponents with money and weapons and let them do it. There is nothing democratic about going in and changing a government because the current regime doesn't suit your current needs.
The US already supports many dictators with records far worse than Saddam, what difference is one more?

The Iraqis haven risen up and taken him out, his neighbours aren't doing anything to stop him... why should we... even the ones we help will not thank us.

[Bala ya khumak]

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/medsearch/FocusAreas/riegle_report/report/report_index.htm

And

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/medsearch/FocusAreas/riegle_report/staff_report/staff_report_index.htm

[warchild1/27scout]

saint-we gave them ****?good!get over it!so did everybody else!now lets do the right thing and go in thier and destroy it.

[budanski]

What does that prove saint? nothing. We were allies with the soviets during ww2 which later became bitter enemies during the cold war. We fought against England, Spain, and Japan yet we are allies today. Allying back then with Sadaam against Iran was a big mistake (no country is perfect) but we've corrected it. "my enemy's enemy is my friend"

[Bala ya khumak]

saint-we gave them ****?good!get over it!so did everybody else!now lets do the right thing and go in thier and destroy it.

Sorry, wrong links, they was supposed to be reports on France's violations of the Iraqi arms embargos.

[the keepa]

Jean Chretien's (Canada's PM.) family or very close relatives has extensive commercial interests in Iraq through a french company called Total-Fina-Elf . The PM's family is the second largest shareholder in this oil company. So not only is he an embarrassment to his country , he is also a traitor . :oops:

[chickenhawk]

these colors don't run...

[chickenhawk]

...the world!