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View Full Version : UK Deploys HMS Daring



Nizark
01-07-2012, 05:06 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8997956/Royal-Navy-sends-its-mightiest-ship-to-take-on-the-Iranian-show-of-force-in-the-Gulf.html

Naval commanders believe the deployment of HMS Daring, a Type 45 destroyer, will send a significant message to the Iranians because of the firepower and world-beating technology carried by the warship.

Gotta love the, "world-beating technology" line. Sounds like Britain is deploying the Death Star.

MeiJoa
01-07-2012, 05:12 PM
So will it actually be armed with harpoons and tomahawks for the mission?

-Eddie-
01-07-2012, 05:14 PM
Nah, we'll probably just give it four AA missiles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064426/Just-FOUR-missiles-What-HMS-Westminster-carrying-sent-defend-Libyan-frontline.html

Nizark
01-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Nah, we'll probably just give it four AA missiles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064426/Just-FOUR-missiles-What-HMS-Westminster-carrying-sent-defend-Libyan-frontline.html

wow has that story been confirmed by the MoD?

-Eddie-
01-07-2012, 05:37 PM
The MoD accepted Westminster was short of missiles when she went to Libya and that she was not then replenished at sea. But a spokesman would not confirm or deny claims that the ship had just four missiles in the warzone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064426/Just-FOUR-missiles-What-HMS-Westminster-carrying-sent-defend-Libyan-frontline.html#ixzz1ioZWQBhS

vmpsmII
01-07-2012, 06:17 PM
Thatís very bad journalism! So it only had two of the four harpoon anti-ship missiles it usually carries. So what? Itís not like the Libyans had some serious naval power in the area.

happyslapper
01-07-2012, 06:30 PM
Thatís very bad journalism! So it only had two of the four harpoon anti-ship missiles it usually carries. So what? Itís not like the Libyans had some serious naval power in the area.

Westminster was deployed with a completely different tasking in mind, and never entered the air threat envelope (the little that hadn't been blown to kingdom come).
However, 4 missiles seems a wee bit off Charlie to me, so I suspect it's BS anyway.

---

On topic, good hunting to Daring, it'll be great to see all those taxes brought to bear!

BAF
01-07-2012, 07:45 PM
Gotta love the, "world-beating technology" line. Sounds like Britain is deploying the Death Star.

There is a reason why all the imperial officers in that movie were British ;)

The Dane
01-07-2012, 08:43 PM
So will it actually be armed with harpoons and tomahawks for the mission?

Not sure about Harpoons? It would probably be smart if things turn violent thou..
But I pretty sure that it can't fire Tomahawks.. unless they've installed a MK41 VLS recently?

Tocsin_Bang
01-07-2012, 08:50 PM
The 45s currently have no SSM capability. They can load and fire Harpoon from SYLVER but none are allocated to them.

Ought Six
01-07-2012, 09:24 PM
The 45s currently have no SSM capability. They can load and fire Harpoon from SYLVER but none are allocated to them.The Harpoons, if fitted, would be standard 4-tube angled launchers. There is no current version of the Harpoon that could be fired from SYLVER VLS cells.

Tocsin_Bang
01-07-2012, 09:46 PM
The Harpoons, if fitted, would be standard 4-tube angled launchers. There is no current version of the Harpoon that could be fired from SYLVER VLS cells.

Thanks for that.

HKDan
01-07-2012, 10:32 PM
Not sure about Harpoons? It would probably be smart if things turn violent thou..
But I pretty sure that it can't fire Tomahawks.. unless they've installed a MK41 VLS recently?

The Sea Viper system has the theoretical capability to fire the Tomahawk, but I can find no reference to it having ever been tested. For what I can tell, all of the Tomahawks that the Royal Navy is in possession of are submarine launched versions. Even without Tomahawk or Harpoon, the successful Aster 30 ballistic missile intercept test on Dec 1 shows the utility of this ship in the region.

Ought Six
01-07-2012, 10:48 PM
Is there any thought of procuring the French naval development of the Storm Shadow/SCALP land attack cruise missile for ships? It is designed to work in an A70 Sylver VLS cell. I know the Type 45 is equipped with A50 VLS cells, but if they are considering VLS Tomahawk, surely the cells would also fit SCALP Naval, would they not? Since the RAF is already operating SCALP, it is likely a favorable deal could be worked out on price; perhaps much more favorable than Tomahawk.

The Dane
01-07-2012, 11:11 PM
The Sea Viper system has the theoretical capability to fire the Tomahawk, but I can find no reference to it having ever been tested. For what I can tell, all of the Tomahawks that the Royal Navy is in possession of are submarine launched versions. Even without Tomahawk or Harpoon, the successful Aster 30 ballistic missile intercept test on Dec 1 shows the utility of this ship in the region.

Surely a great defensive ship and a great asset to have in the area. Especially, if Iran starts to fire ballistic missiles at.. what ever their twisted minds decide to attack. But you should be able to retaliate if attacked. That why I suspect that Daring is followed by a sub..

And..My guess is, Harpoons are probably installed on Daring. It doesn't make much sense to send a vessel without any(or very limited) offensive capabilities.. if you wanna send a message to the Iranian's. Not when this is mainly preventing the Iranian naval forces from closing the Strait of Hormuz.. not to me anyway? Okay.. Sea Skua can do some damage, but you can't keep that chopper in the air all the time. And it might be risky attacking an Iranian frigate with that combination?(not sure about their AA capability).

Btw, anyone know what version of Harpoon UK uses?

Nizark
01-07-2012, 11:22 PM
There is a reason why all the imperial officers in that movie were British ;)

Cute...I see wut you did thar

Nizark
01-07-2012, 11:24 PM
Surely a great defensive ship and a great asset to have in the area. Especially, if Iran starts to fire ballistic missiles at.. what ever their twisted minds decide to attack. But you should be able to retaliate if attacked. That why I suspect that Daring is followed by a sub..

And..My guess is, Harpoons are probably installed on Daring. It doesn't make much sense to send a vessel without any(or very limited) offensive capabilities.. if you wanna send a message to the Iranian's. Not when this is mainly preventing the Iranian naval forces from closing the Strait of Hormuz.. not to me anyway? Okay.. Sea Skua can do some damage, but you can't keep that chopper in the air all the time. And it might be risky attacking an Iranian frigate with that combination?(not sure about their AA capability).

Btw, anyone know what version of Harpoon UK uses?

Well also, I would think that the Daring would fold into the Anti-missile umbrella that the US battle group and allied vessels would have, which could free them to be used more offensively.

HKDan
01-07-2012, 11:25 PM
Im not sure about the Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles that the HMS Daring carries, but the major USN SAMs like SM-2, ESSM, SM-6, RAM all have an anti-surface capability. If thats the case with Aster, then Harpoon might not be necessary. I guess we will have to wait for photos from the deployment to come out in a couple of month before we know for sure though.

Halidon
01-08-2012, 12:49 AM
Aster has no Anti-surface at present. Its do-able, with software work and testing, though the expense would probably be greater than buying off the shelf alternatives, and would result in far less capability.

The Daring has provisions to be fit with Harpoon, but the RN hasn't installed them yet. She has some Sea Skuas for her Lynx, I think.

If she is to be operating with a USN Task Force she'll be fine without ASMs. Her defensive armament is quite formidable, including a pretty good gun compliment to keep small boats at bay, and the small Iranian big boat Navy won't last long against a Carrier Strike Group plus whatever the West has underneath the Gulf.

The Dane
01-08-2012, 01:41 AM
the major USN SAMs like SM-2, ESSM, SM-6, RAM all have an anti-surface capability. If thats the case with Aster, then Harpoon might not be necessary.

Didn't know that. But I have seen a video with a Canadian(I think) concept vehicle(LAV something..) firing a Stinger missile at an other land-vehicle. AA missiles could probably be quite effective against smaller vessels but not against corvettes and larger vessels. Warhead size/type/design and angel of attack are the main reason's for that.

happyslapper
01-08-2012, 07:10 AM
Is there any thought of procuring the French naval development of the Storm Shadow/SCALP land attack cruise missile for ships? It is designed to work in an A70 Sylver VLS cell. I know the Type 45 is equipped with A50 VLS cells, but if they are considering VLS Tomahawk, surely the cells would also fit SCALP Naval, would they not? Since the RAF is already operating SCALP, it is likely a favorable deal could be worked out on price; perhaps much more favorable than Tomahawk.


Surely a great defensive ship and a great asset to have in the area. Especially, if Iran starts to fire ballistic missiles at.. what ever their twisted minds decide to attack. But you should be able to retaliate if attacked. That why I suspect that Daring is followed by a sub..

And..My guess is, Harpoons are probably installed on Daring. It doesn't make much sense to send a vessel without any(or very limited) offensive capabilities.. if you wanna send a message to the Iranian's. Not when this is mainly preventing the Iranian naval forces from closing the Strait of Hormuz.. not to me anyway? Okay.. Sea Skua can do some damage, but you can't keep that chopper in the air all the time. And it might be risky attacking an Iranian frigate with that combination?(not sure about their AA capability).

Btw, anyone know what version of Harpoon UK uses?

The RN only use conventionally surface launched models now. Presumably the UGM-84B we did use on subs are still stockpiled for war use (but not routinely carried any more). The RAF also have air launnched version for use from Tornado.
I think it's the Block 1G we use from surface ships, which have supposedly been SLAM readied but without stock. (all part of the UK MoD's FFBNW obsession).

There's no Harpoon on Daring, Dane. The RN don't like fitting surface weapons on destroyers (even the main gun was a last minute addition). Doctrinally, we'd hit enemy surface units with submarines and aircraft, with an FF/DD shield behind.
The good news is that the embarked Mk8 Lynx is more than capable of dispatching Iranian PBs.

The papers are making a bit of a meal of it. Daring is deploying as the Gulf patrol vessel, as part of our permanent commitment to CTF-152. It's not in direct response to Iran (though I'm sure she'll give them something to think about).

Regards SCALP-N, I suspect we'll get them for the Type 26, which will have strike-length cells. Conrary to what some will tell you, it's not overly difficult to refit the Type 45's with A70 cells (either totally or in combination). Doctrinally, it would make no sense at the moment.

Zeico
01-08-2012, 08:36 AM
Type 45s are ready for 2x4 Harpoon launchers but those are not fitted on them atm.

happyslapper
01-11-2012, 02:21 PM
She set sail from Portsmouth today.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/HmsDaringSetsSailOnMaidenDeployment.htm
(http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/HmsDaringSetsSailOnMaidenDeployment.htm)
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2012/January/11/120110-Daring-Debut

http://www.youtube.com/v/becLI2A2BLg

shuredgefan
01-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Too bad MOD decided to put off installing CEC (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/cec.htm) in its Type 45 ships until 2014 (or never). I'm sure it would be handy to be able to integrate all available US sensor platforms instantly. Without it, they'll have to run that honking big SAMPSON radar all of the time, meaning their exact location will be known to the enemy, all of the time.

happyslapper
01-11-2012, 04:57 PM
Meh, the RN/USN have existing systems to share data.

She's going out there to be seen. It would be a shame, having invested billions in a supposedly world-beating radar system, not to wave it in the faces of our potential foes.

Halidon
03-20-2012, 06:42 PM
Royal Navy article on the Daring working with a couple Carrier Strike Groups in the Gulf (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2012/March/20/120320-Daring-Carriers).