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View Full Version : Some muslims take responsibility for Beslan



Nizark
09-05-2004, 01:02 AM
I found this on the Jordan Times web page. Quite interesting and encouraging.

http://www.jordantimes.com/sun/news/news3.htm

Russia siege prompts horror, self-criticism in Arab world


By Susan Sevareid
The Associated Press

CAIRO — Images of dead, wounded and traumatised Russian children being carried from the scene of a rebel school siege horrified Middle Eastern Muslims, prompting forthright self-criticism Saturday and fresh concern about an international backlash against Islam and its followers.

Arab leaders, Muslim clerics and ordinary parents across the Middle East denounced the school siege that left more than 340 people dead, many of them children, as unjustifiable.


Some warned such actions damage Islam's image more than all its enemies could hope. Even some supporters of militancy condemned it, though at least one insisted Muslims were not behind it.


"Holy warriors" from the Middle East long have supported fellow Muslims fighting in Chechnya, and Russian officials said nine or 10 Arabs were among militants killed when commandos stormed the Beslan school in southern Russia on Friday to end a siege that began Wednesday by rebels demanding Chechen independence.


Middle East security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was too early to know the nationalities of the Arabs among the dead militants.


However, a prominent Arab journalist wrote that Muslims must acknowledge the painful fact that Muslims are the main perpetrators of terrorism.


"Our terrorist sons are an end-product of our corrupted culture," Abdulrahman Rashed, general manager of Arabiya television, wrote in his daily column published in the pan-Arab Asharq Awsat newspaper.


It ran under the headline, "The Painful Truth: All the World Terrorists are Muslims!" Rashed ran through a list of recent attacks by extremist groups — in Russia, Iraq, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen — many of which are influenced by the ideology of Osama Ben Laden, the Saudi-born leader of Al Qaeda terror network.


"Most perpetrators of suicide operations in buses, schools and residential buildings around the world for the past 10 years have been Muslims," he wrote.


Muslims will be unable to cleanse their image unless "we admit the scandalous facts," rather than offer condemnations or justifications.


"The picture is humiliating, painful and harsh for all of us."


Arab TV stations repeatedly aired footage of terrified young survivors being carried from the school siege scene, while pictures of dead and wounded children ran on front pages of Saturday's Arab newspapers.


Ahmed Bahgat, an Egyptian Islamist and columnist for Egypt's leading pro-government newspaper, Al Ahram, wrote that the images "showed Muslims as monsters who are fed by the blood of children and the pain of their families."


"If all the enemies of Islam united together and decided to harm it ... they wouldn't have ruined and harmed its image as much as the sons of Islam have done by their stupidity, miscalculations, and misunderstanding of the nature of this age," Bahgat wrote.


Other Islamists were more cautious in their criticism.


Mohammad Mahdi Akef, leader of Egypt's largest Islamic group, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, said the siege did not fit the Islamic concept of "jihad," or holy war, but took care not to characterise it as terrorism.


"What happened ... is not jihad because our Islam obligates us to respect the souls of human beings," Akef said. "Real jihad should target occupiers of our lands only like the Palestinian and Iraqi resistance." Ali Abdullah, an Islamic scholar in Bahrain who follows the ultraconservative Salafi stream of Islam, condemned the school attack as "un-Islamic," but insisted Muslims weren't behind it.


"I have no doubt in my mind that this is the work of the Israelis who want to tarnish the image of Muslims and are working alongside Russians who have their own agenda against the Muslims in Chechnya," said Abdullah, reviving an old conspiracy theory altered to fit any situation.


Salafism and its similarly conservative kin, Wahhabism, which is widely observed in Saudi Arabia, are accused by critics of fostering extremism.


Some contributors to Islamic websites known for their extremist content praised the separatists and predicted the Islamic fighters across Egypt would avenge the killings of Muslims elsewhere.


Heads of state from around the region condemned the attack. It struck a chord with parents, including His Majesty King Abdullah who denounced it on state-run television.


"As a father, I can tell you that all the fathers and mothers in Jordan pray humbly to God to stand by their counterparts in Russia in their grief," said His Majesty King Abdullah.


Syria's foreign ministry described the school siege as "a terrorist, cowardly action," which Damascus "condemns in the harshest terms," according to the state-run SANA news agency.


Mona Khalil, a 48-year-old Amman secretary, said her heart ached at the sight of the frightened children and their weeping relatives.


"What on earth were the kidnappers thinking about when they took the children hostage?" she asked. "These criminals don't fear God? They have no mercy in their hearts? They don't have children?" Mohammad Saleh Ebrahim, a 31-year-old Bahraini who was back-to-school shopping in the Gulf island nation with his two daughters, described the hostage-takers as "worse than animals." "It's because of these people Muslims and Arabs are getting a bad name around the world," he said.

usa320
09-05-2004, 01:07 AM
The fact of the matter is terrorists are digging their own grave.

Their extremely brutal tactics are turning away even their potential friends.

People that might have sympathized with them in the past no longer are.

bison3255
09-05-2004, 01:08 AM
"I have no doubt in my mind that this is the work of the Israelis who want to tarnish the image of Muslims and are working alongside Russians who have their own agenda against the Muslims in Chechnya," said Abdullah, reviving an old conspiracy theory altered to fit any situation.
:roll:

Kilgor
09-05-2004, 04:02 AM
"I have no doubt in my mind that this is the work of the Israelis who want to tarnish the image of Muslims and are working alongside Russians who have their own agenda against the Muslims in Chechnya," said Abdullah, reviving an old conspiracy theory altered to fit any situation.

For f*cks sake.
:cantbeli:

he must be joking .. right ?

FDF_Hemppis
09-05-2004, 09:39 AM
"I have no doubt in my mind that this is the work of the Israelis who want to tarnish the image of Muslims and are working alongside Russians who have their own agenda against the Muslims in Chechnya," said Abdullah, reviving an old conspiracy theory altered to fit any situation.

For f*cks sake.
:cantbeli:

he must be joking .. right ?

I’m afraid he's not :|
People like this really exist... No matter how unbelievable it sounds.

jedisponge
09-05-2004, 09:49 AM
so thats like the 5179231829571293712983 umph time they blamed israel for something thats not remotely possible. get real.

UkrainianAmerican
09-05-2004, 10:58 AM
And the press calls THIS, self-criticism?
Islamist ****s.

SFontaine
09-05-2004, 11:08 AM
Aw crap.. My newspaper is late.. DAMN YOU ISRAEL!

Herrmannek
09-05-2004, 11:18 AM
The fact of the matter is terrorists are digging their own grave.

Their extremely brutal tactics are turning away even their potential friends.

People that might have sympathized with them in the past no longer are.
Its not true... I still hear voices that those terrosist where pushed to such actions becuase of russia, becuse noone cares about 10 poeople dying so they need to kill 100 now etc etc etc etc. terrorist got what they wanted: attention, now world will look closely at chechenya or other coutry and will try to push moscow to change politics, and already did in last days, just read letters to putin from other presidents. I don't say that change of direction in Russian politics wasn't need, but seeing that noone cared before and now just after that shamfull act they jump on Putin to politicaly solve problem in chechenya makes me cry. Terrorism realy work you want it or not, maybe not always directly like in Spain fe months ago but works... SHAME SHAMNE SHAME

UkrainianAmerican
09-05-2004, 11:21 AM
The fact of the matter is terrorists are digging their own grave.

Their extremely brutal tactics are turning away even their potential friends.

People that might have sympathized with them in the past no longer are.
Its not true... I still hear voices that those terrosist where pushed to such actions becuase of russia, becuse noone cares about 10 poeople dying so they need to kill 100 now etc etc etc etc. terrorist got what they wanted: attention, now world will look closely at chechenya or other coutry and will try to push moscow to change politics, and already did in last days, just read letters to putin from other presidents. I don't say that change of direction in Russian politics wasn't need, but seeing that noone cared before and now just after that shamfull act they jump on Putin to politicaly solve problem in chechenya makes me cry. Terrorism realy work you want it or not, maybe not always directly like in Spain fe months ago but works... SHAME SHAMNE SHAME
Especially if gut-less ****s, like the E.U. are involved. :fork:

Herrmannek
09-05-2004, 11:25 AM
The fact of the matter is terrorists are digging their own grave.

Their extremely brutal tactics are turning away even their potential friends.

People that might have sympathized with them in the past no longer are.
Its not true... I still hear voices that those terrosist where pushed to such actions becuase of russia, becuse noone cares about 10 poeople dying so they need to kill 100 now etc etc etc etc. terrorist got what they wanted: attention, now world will look closely at chechenya or other coutry and will try to push moscow to change politics, and already did in last days, just read letters to putin from other presidents. I don't say that change of direction in Russian politics wasn't need, but seeing that noone cared before and now just after that shamfull act they jump on Putin to politicaly solve problem in chechenya makes me cry. Terrorism realy work you want it or not, maybe not always directly like in Spain fe months ago but works... SHAME SHAMNE SHAME
Especially if gut-less ****s, like the E.U. are involved. :fork:

if they realy believed in what theyasked Putin, it should be constant presure on Putin not only just after teracts(terror acts). What is worse they encourage followers to do even worse things...BE CONESQUENT DUMB ASSHOLES OR STFU

Mr Gently Benevolent
09-05-2004, 12:31 PM
Especially if gut-less ****s, like the E.U. are involved. :fork:
Take note the EU is a closer friend to Russia than the US or Israel will ever be.

szr
09-05-2004, 12:36 PM
Especially if gut-less ****s, like the E.U. are involved. :fork:
Take note the EU is a closer friend to Russia than the US or Israel will ever be.

Why wouldn't they be? They both love to stand in the way of US and Israeli policy. Of course you guys are closer. The EU is probably closer to China than the US will ever be, too.

Anyway, glad to hear that some Muslims are appalled by the current trends.

-Max2-
09-05-2004, 12:42 PM
Especially if gut-less ****s, like the E.U. are involved.

Another stupid comment...

Funny to see that all my favorite trolls on this site are Russians living in America (Permski, RavenW, and now you).

bison3255
09-05-2004, 01:05 PM
Russia wont change its policy on chechnya. ever. get used to it.

Russian thinking:
-350,000 checs dead
-400,000 ran away
-400,000 left
-kill the rest. problem solved :D

StarvingStudent47
09-05-2004, 03:42 PM
And the press calls THIS, self-criticism?
My thoughts exactly. SELF-criticism is not the same as "blaming **** on somebody else."


Aw crap.. My newspaper is late.. DAMN YOU ISRAEL!

I got shot down by a gal I liked on thursday. I know the Mossad f---ed this one up for me. If it weren't for Israel, I'd be having *** right now.

I hate the Zionist entity.

UkrainianAmerican
09-05-2004, 04:32 PM
Especially if gut-less ****s, like the E.U. are involved.

Another stupid comment...

Funny to see that all my favorite trolls on this site are Russians living in America (Permski, RavenW, and now you).
Likewise (switch russian americans to Europeans)
And why would I be a troll. I try not to start **** based on nothin. But we Russians, americans, etc. are not going to be reporting to a bunch of euro-****s as to why this or that was 'allowed' to happened. Especially not after 340 of OUR civilians got brutally butchered by Islamist pigs.

And what is Brussels doing about the War on Terror? O, yeah, defending Europe from the imminent threat of the Israelis.. How could I forget.

Navy
09-05-2004, 05:13 PM
MAN TO MAN -RussianAmerican:

1. How old are you?

2. Are you in the military?

Plz respond, cause im toward feeling NO RESPECT for you.

Yes im older then 18 and i do serve my country (if Sweden counts).

Kilgor
09-05-2004, 05:15 PM
just watching the news...

aparently one girl was shot in the back over 40 times.

:|

Macs.
09-05-2004, 06:07 PM
Especially if gut-less ****s, like the E.U. are involved.

Another stupid comment...

Funny to see that all my favorite trolls on this site are Russians living in America (Permski, RavenW, and now you).
Likewise (switch russian americans to Europeans)
And why would I be a troll. I try not to start **** based on nothin. But we Russians, americans, etc. are not going to be reporting to a bunch of euro-****s as to why this or that was 'allowed' to happened. Especially not after 340 of OUR civilians got brutally butchered by Islamist pigs.

And what is Brussels doing about the War on Terror? O, yeah, defending Europe from the imminent threat of the Israelis.. How could I forget.

Maybe if russian would put out of chechenya you wouldn't have a problem with so much terror.

Killing hundred thousands of civilians, destroying whole citys etc. What russia is doing in chechenya could be named terror, too. (just look at grozny)

I don't want to defend this terrorists scums, but this blind-terrorism needs a place to get recruits, and chechenya is a very good place for recruiting ppl which are ready to do everything for their "religion".

bison3255
09-05-2004, 06:41 PM
chechnya will be fully stamped out if it breeds terror :roll:

UkrainianAmerican
09-05-2004, 06:50 PM
MAN TO MAN -RussianAmerican:

1. How old are you?

2. Are you in the military?

Plz respond, cause im toward feeling NO RESPECT for you.

Yes im older then 18 and i do serve my country (if Sweden counts).
18.5
No military experience.
Nor do I pretend to have any. Nothing against Swedish armed forces in particular. Just dont like the EU foreign policy too much, thats all.

Navy
09-05-2004, 07:45 PM
Thanks for that sincere answer. Maybe i dont like everything in the EU foreign policy too.

p-)

StarvingStudent47
09-05-2004, 11:24 PM
To get back to the original topic...

There was just a story on CNN (TV). The lead-in said that more and more Muslims were beginning to vocally condemn such atrocities like the Beslan massacre. Yet when the story actually got to interviews, none of their interviewees said that! One complained it was harder to go through airports and get visas, whereas another defended the Beslan terrorists because "they were oppressed and had no other way to fight for freedom."

If these media sources really have quotes from prominent Muslims unilaterally condemning the Beslan terrorists, they should publish those quotes. But if they don't have them, they shouldn't mislabel stories to imply they do.

talib_killa34
09-06-2004, 02:41 AM
To get back to the original topic...

There was just a story on CNN (TV). The lead-in said that more and more Muslims were beginning to vocally condemn such atrocities like the Beslan massacre. Yet when the story actually got to interviews, none of their interviewees said that! One complained it was harder to go through airports and get visas, whereas another defended the Beslan terrorists because "they were oppressed and had no other way to fight for freedom."

If these media sources really have quotes from prominent Muslims unilaterally condemning the Beslan terrorists, they should publish those quotes. But if they don't have them, they shouldn't mislabel stories to imply they do.

Seems to be a conflicting story as to where their hearts and minds are.

No one would be happier if tomorrow, the heads of state of Syria, Jordan, Iran, Egypt. Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Kuwait and all of the so called "Arab Street" came clean and said "Our policy of hostility towards Israel has gotten us nowhere. While some of us have already recognized the Jewish State, the rest of us, especially IRAN, concede the right to exist of said country".

That and " We condemn this Beslan act as terrorism and hereby renounce those murderers having anypart of our religion, Holy Islam."

Sounds nice, but will you or I hear it tomorrow?

Methinks no....

:(

Warlord
09-06-2004, 02:53 AM
You would really think that the Arab Muslims are really regretting what just happened. But in reality, if you ask the ordinary, slightly educated Arabs here, they thinks it was still perpetrated by the CIA and the Mossad. They always say that they cannot beleive a Muslim can do such a thing. THis goes for every terrorist attacks even the 9/11 incident was said to be a CIA conspiracy. I can hear it all over the radios here. Actually some of the deliberations are very convincing. If I was a bit more half-witted I could've been convinced that Moshe Dayan crashed those planes in one of the towers.

Arabs will never change. Sadistic animals.