Julia Gillard vs Kevin Rudd [Archive]

Toddy1

02-21-2012, 10:50 PM

The leadership crisis is coming to a head here in Australia.

Do you think it is prudent for Julia Gillard to sack Kevin Rudd?
Do you think it is prudent for her to keep him?

A completely wild theory I have is, would Kevin Rudd join the Liberal party if he does get sacked, is he allowed to do that and does that then mean we have a hung parliament again?

Sorry, I am not really au fait with how it all works and am relying more on the collective knowledge of those who post on this board regularly.

BLUE THOR

02-21-2012, 10:59 PM

How about the ALP form circle and play Russian Roulette with a machine gun? They can invite the Greens in the spirit of Multi-culturalism

Toddy1

02-21-2012, 11:02 PM

How about the ALP form circle and play Russian Roulette with a machine gun? They can invite the Greens in the spirit of Multi-culturalism
Sounds like fun as long as Bob Brown is first to go...I have never been one for extreme acts but I could possibly make an exception for that man :)

ReallyTiny

02-21-2012, 11:10 PM

Who genuinely cares? I wish the media would find something else to report on.

Toddy1

02-21-2012, 11:11 PM

I genuinely care. It's the future leadership of our country, you not remotely interested in that?

ReallyTiny

02-22-2012, 12:29 AM

KNIVES OUT: Julia Gillard expected to sack Kevin Rudd in showdown next week

CABINET minister Greg Combet declared "enough is enough" today as he and other top supporters of Julia Gillard called for an end to the ongoing leadership speculation.

That word in bold is dead on.

They are from the same party, the policies are (roughly) the same just a different head on the chopping block if something fails. It's a public bitch fight, and yes I'm interested in the leadership of our country, when its voting time.

Toddy1

02-22-2012, 12:32 AM

That word in bold is dead on.

They are from the same party, the policies are (roughly) the same just a different head on the chopping block if something fails. Its a public bitch fight, and yes I'm interested in the leadership of our country, when its voting time.
Kevin Rudd has always been liberal in his views anyway hence the reason the union supported Gillard (oh and the mining tax breaks). "If" he joined the Libs would that not mean a hung parliament and then election time again? I can't remember if Labour are two seats up or only one at the moment since Wilkie withdrew his support. Yes its speculation but it could change everything depending on what she decides to do next week.

As I mentioned above I am not very on the ball when it comes to politics hence I am asking genuine questions as to whether it is possible or not to do that.

themacedonian

02-22-2012, 12:39 AM

So she sacks him out of the job. Based on what justification? For doing a bad job? I think she is a weak leader and guided by people in the background.

Toddy1

02-22-2012, 12:41 AM

So she sacks him out of the job. Based on what justification? For doing a bad job? I think she is a weak leader and guided by people in the background.
For plotting to challenge her for the leadership, kind of ironic

themacedonian

02-22-2012, 12:48 AM

For plotting to challenge her for the leadership, kind of ironic

Has he failed his current job? She was pushed first time around and she is pushed right now. It would be nice if Kevin preempts it.

Toddy1

02-22-2012, 12:50 AM

Has he failed his current job? She was pushed first time around and she is pushed right now. It would be nice if Kevin preempts it.
Absolutely and that is why she comes across as a puppet, do this Julia, do that Julia - doesn't look good

ReallyTiny

02-22-2012, 12:59 AM

As I mentioned above I am not very on the ball when it comes to politics hence I am asking genuine questions as to whether it is possible or not to do that.

Sure and I respect that they are genuine questions, I just dislike those who base questions on speculation creating more speculation. Not even the media who everyone knows blow most things out of proportion is suggesting a hung parliament. Each to his own I guess, have fun.

Elliott70

02-22-2012, 01:02 AM

Who genuinely cares? I wish the media would find something else to report on.

Same. Isn't there more important sh1t to be worried about?

1. Julia says she is not worried by the speculation and has the support of the caucus.
2. Kev says he doesn't want the job and is happy being Foreign Minister

End of story until something does happen. Time for the muppedia to let it go.

steyr_88

02-22-2012, 01:05 AM

I don't like either of them.

ReallyTiny

02-22-2012, 01:21 AM

Oh look he resigned, so much for the speculation he would be sacked.

themacedonian

02-22-2012, 01:22 AM

Kevin resigned live

wagon

02-22-2012, 01:32 AM

The Governor General should force an election IMO. What a farce.

Toddy1

02-22-2012, 01:35 AM

Election here we come

Violet Fashion by Mindy

02-22-2012, 01:37 AM

The Governor General should force an election IMO. What a farce.

I highly doubt any sane person would vote for a guy who's own daughters think is a political idiot if a new election is called.

themacedonian

02-22-2012, 01:42 AM

I highly doubt any sane person would vote for a guy who's own daughters think is a political idiot if a new election is called.

At least he has a daughter Ms Gillard does not like to have children

EvilMinion

02-22-2012, 10:47 PM

The Weekend Australian was adamant that Rudd had the necessary support to mount a successful challenge for the leadership, so I wonder if that support fell through, or if The Australian got a bit over-excited. Rudd couldn't help throwing a few barbs Gillard's way, but I can't say that I wouldn't either. However this all turns out, I think we need an election soon. Labor's reliance on the support of the independents and the Greens hobbles their decision-making process, IMO.

Toddy1

02-22-2012, 10:52 PM

I don;t think Rudd would have resigned and launched a leadership challenge if he did not think he had the necessary support. The problem for Labour is that the damage is probably already done and the Libs might launch a vote of no confidence in the current government to force an early election. Abbott unfortunately isn't a leader either. All of this scares me into thinking that at the next election the fvcking greens will get more and more votes...Labour and Liberal should team up to **** them off, they're doing the real damage behind the scenes

EvilMinion

02-22-2012, 10:54 PM

Gillard, Rudd, and Abbott = a triumvirate of suck. But the Greens in charge? No.

Toddy1

02-22-2012, 10:57 PM

The greenies don't pose a serious challenge to being in control, but with enough seats they are already controlling a lot of the decisions and putting their own agendas as trade off

SuchIsLife

02-22-2012, 11:42 PM

The ALP is royally fvcked.

ALP Members know Gillard can't win the next election. But they like her.
They know Rudd can win the next election as most people prefer him over Gillard and Abbott. But the members hate him.

So if they want to keep their jobs what to do?

Vote Rudd in, bang independents kick up a fuss and you have a hung parliament and an election.

baboon6

02-23-2012, 06:53 AM

At least he has a daughter Ms Gillard does not like to have children

So what? Why should she if she doesn't want to?

digrar

02-23-2012, 05:03 PM

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9119/42833810150578859843546.jpg

Julia to win this battle, Tony to win the war, independents to miss out next time after backing the wrong horse last time.

EvilMinion

02-23-2012, 06:33 PM

^ I got that picture e-mailed to me yesterday, it's quite clever.

Gillard, Rudd, and Abbott = a triumvirate of suck. But the Greens in charge? No.

I should clarify: that should read 'Greens in charge? Oh god no, don't let that happen'.

Homer

02-23-2012, 08:50 PM

Never liked Gillard. Really dislike Abbott.
Rudd isn't too bad. But what will the repurcusions be for those in cabinet who have backed Gillard and publicly attacked him, if Rudd wins next week?
If there is a leadership challenge like everyone suspects, then Labor needs to put this leadership issue behind them regardless of who wins.
Howard managed to keep Costellos leadership ambitions in check long enough till the voters got sick of seeing both of their mugs on tv.
How can any voter have confidence in a party that is too busy trying to stab each other in the back rather then worry about running the country?

There was also speculation on Sunrise this morning that Rudd could launch his own party....he certainly seems hell bent on the top job again.
Wonder how many Labor MP's would be prepare to jump ship with him if that ever happened?

wagon

02-23-2012, 09:05 PM

Australian Democrats MkII : Keeping the bastards in office.

Elliott70

02-23-2012, 09:12 PM

There was also speculation on Sunrise this morning that Rudd could launch his own party....he certainly seems hell bent on the top job again. Wonder how many Labor MP's would be prepare to jump ship with him if that ever happened?

He could team up with the Mad Hatter, Big Bob Katter.

p-)

themacedonian

02-23-2012, 09:18 PM

There is a need for another party in Australia. To keep the bastards honest :).

Even if he wins the ballot on Monday it is a G-G call and Julia has to resign on her own. He will not win.

Toddy1

02-23-2012, 09:44 PM

Speculation is that Rudd only has 26 votes and Julia Goolia has around 60 odd, he will not win. The party hates him but there could be a backlash from the public.

wagon

02-23-2012, 09:51 PM

I've heard various political commentators saying there might be a third clown to throw its hat into the ring.. Three way contest?

themacedonian

02-23-2012, 09:59 PM

Speculation is that Rudd only has 26 votes and Julia Goolia has around 60 odd, he will not win. The party hates him but there could be a backlash from the public.

With such high difference (would have been known to him) why would he even consider? I think there might be more on his side.

Toddy1

02-23-2012, 10:01 PM

Rudd is making a statement today at 2pm, he might not actually run he has not even said that he will contest.

Bill Shorten and Simon Crean could blindside Gillard though. The biggest benefit Julia has is that she currently has the support of the Union bosses - "Faceless Men"

Elliott70

02-23-2012, 10:54 PM

With such high difference (would have been known to him) why would he even consider? I think there might be more on his side.

So do I. How many of the caucus, front bench etc are looking down the camera and saying that they are supporting Julia and come ballot time will vote for Rudd (or someone else)? That will keep the pressure off them between now and the ballot and allegedly some of the back bench are getting threatened with cancellation of their pre selection next time around if they don't tow the party line. So why not go with the party flow and at the last minute, switch horses. It wouldn't be much of a reach for a polly to say one thing and do the opposite, would it?

Toddy1

02-23-2012, 10:56 PM

Interesting speech but the ALP are in all sorts of trouble. I never knew Abbot was so keen on an Angloshpere, might be some extra votes for him come next election ;)

themacedonian

02-23-2012, 11:11 PM

The race is on. So which horse is going to win? The public is once again taken for a ride.

Toddy1

02-23-2012, 11:15 PM

You'd have a better chance of picking the next Melbourne Cup winner than you would on backing who's going to win on Monday

Elliott70

02-23-2012, 11:25 PM

The race is on. So which horse is going to win? The public is once again taken for a ride.

Harder to pick than a broken nose

wagon

02-24-2012, 04:07 AM

http://www.slapapollie.com/game/1/Gillard
p-)

Sandgroper

02-24-2012, 05:44 AM

http://www.slapapollie.com/game/1/Gillard
p-)

My record is 688 metres

Homer

02-24-2012, 06:23 PM

With such high difference (would have been known to him) why would he even consider? I think there might be more on his side.

That, and the fact he is trying to use the public support he has.
People prefer him there's no denying it.
Labor would be stupid to not vote him to the top job again.

Violet Fashion by Mindy

02-24-2012, 06:46 PM

One thing is certain. Unless the ALP sort their **** out the country is going to be well and truly ****ed with Abbott running the show.

Homer

02-24-2012, 09:11 PM

Anthony Albanese has thrown his support behind Rudd.

Latest galaxy poll.
52% prefer Rudd
26% prefer Gillard
6 out of 10 voters believe he was removed unfairly
Half believe she has failed to deliver

It's ironic she is publicly accusing him of being treacherous given what she did to get the top job in the first place.

http://s18.postimage.org/tjm8cnkpz/happy_little_vegemite.jpg
http://s9.postimage.org/wdrhsxvv1/ruddirela.jpg

digrar

02-25-2012, 03:26 AM

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/2782/21538119733297358921322.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/21538119733297358921322.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

themacedonian

02-25-2012, 05:23 AM

173679

This is from 2 years ago. So true even now.

Wally1967

02-25-2012, 04:53 PM

So do you think Labor Ministers will keep Gillard or back Krudd on tomorrow ballot if's going ahead from today?

themacedonian

02-25-2012, 05:28 PM

1. Labour chooses Gillard - Rudd is still around, still making noise, people not happy, election disaster.

2. Labour chooses Rudd - Abott is going to have a field day, people happy, labour has better chances in the elections.

Zorro C9

02-25-2012, 05:34 PM

There's also the "people don't want a party that's divided" factor which will see Labour's results at the election drop.

themacedonian

02-25-2012, 05:52 PM

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2012/02/26/290761_ntnews.html

THE mood was tense as the country's most political croc sank his teeth into Julia Gillard's face.
Harry the Psychic has spoken.
The talented inmate of Crocosaurus Cove went straight for the neck - a sure sign that the Australian leader will keep her throne in tomorrow's ballot against the casualty of her power-grab, Kevin Rudd.

Hold on I think the croc wants to eat Gillard not choose her!!

http://www.ntnews.com.au/images/uploadedfiles/editorial/pictures/2012/02/25/croc-psychic-650.jpg

Wally1967

02-25-2012, 06:01 PM

Can Greens and Independence can vote tomorrows ballot?
Which I doubt.

themacedonian

02-25-2012, 06:02 PM

Can Greens and Independence can vote tomorrows ballot?

No. They vote after if Kevin wins.

8.56am Peter Garrett has told Sky News he would not seek to serve in a Kevin Rudd Ministry because Julia Gillard is the best person to lead the country

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/labor-pill-tipped-as-kevin-rudd-quits/story-e6frfkvr-1226278761878#ixzz1nRBVXHxz

what OTHER incentive do people want now?! No one likes him.

Homer

02-26-2012, 12:38 AM

themacedonian

02-26-2012, 12:48 AM

Other political parties and the Independents don't get to vote on this at all.
This is an internal Labor issue that the Labor national caucus will decide on.
Elections will probably be announced soon though anyway by who ever wins.

Lets say Kevin wins labour vote he is not PM automatically. Rule is PM is the one that has majority in parliament. That is when the greens and ind. get to vote.

themacedonian

02-26-2012, 06:58 PM

Julia Gillard won. 73 vs 29.

DivingEngineer

02-26-2012, 07:03 PM

Julia Gillard won. 73 vs 29.

Damm. Really? Wasnt really much of choice though. I hate hearing Gillard speak though- just that tone she has, grates on the ears, sounds like im back at school and getting in trouble for something.....

Bring on the next election... Cando Cambell has got a heap of support up this way.

BLUE THOR

02-26-2012, 07:11 PM

I think utter ****fight is the political analogy that best describes the Labor Party at present.

EvilMinion

02-26-2012, 07:16 PM

73-29, that's Greek tragedy levels of crash and burn right there, although it sounds like they're counting again. I can't wait to start reading the behind the scene stories, in particular what made Rudd think he had the support to do this. Were people lying to him, was he not listening to his advisors? Who knows.

themacedonian

02-26-2012, 07:21 PM

When Rudd was ousted even though he was popular it was said people vote for party not for the man. Well next time around people will not for the party at all.

Elliott70

02-26-2012, 07:24 PM

@EvilMinion

Possibly he was beliving the news polls which were saying he had public support or was he still being an arrogant pr1ck and over estimated his caucus support?

Maybe he hasn't 'learnt' anything.

EvilMinion

02-26-2012, 07:25 PM

But Rudd wasn't popular, that's why he was ousted. He's a control freak who alienated the bureaucracy, other Labor ministers, and the unions; his leadership has been described as 'toxic'. He's what happens when the smart kid doesn't learn to play with others.

Sorry, this was in response to themacedonian, I posted at the same time as Elliott70. I do agree with Elliott70's assessment of Rudd as 'arrogant', probably sums it up.

themacedonian

02-26-2012, 07:27 PM

^^Possibly he was reading the news polls which were saying he had public support or was he still being an arrogant pr1ck and over estimated his caucus support? Maybe he hasn't 'learnt' anything.There will be some soul searching and quite a few big Labour names stuck their necks out for him.

Elliott70

02-26-2012, 07:28 PM

There will be some soul searching and quite a few big Labour names stuck their necks out for him.

It will be interesting to see who gets shown the door after the next reshuffle.

BLUE THOR

02-26-2012, 07:30 PM

His recent outburst on Youtube was his downfall - the Chinese puppet masters took offence, pulled some strings, the Labor party did as it was told and Rudd loses.... cool story.

Wally1967

02-26-2012, 08:06 PM

Heh Have Hitler downfall prody on Julia today's victory.

Kilgor

02-26-2012, 08:31 PM

It will be interesting to see who gets shown the door after the next reshuffle.

And the new minister for Aboriginal Affairs, Anthony Albanese !

Violet Fashion by Mindy

02-26-2012, 08:33 PM

Lets say Kevin wins labour vote he is not PM automatically. Rule is PM is the one that has majority in parliament. That is when the greens and ind. get to vote.

And you are incorrect.

Political parties or a parliament majority have nothing to do with who becomes Prime Minister. The Prime Minister like all Cabinet Ministers are appointed by the Governor General or the Monarch if she is in country. what political party they are in or whether they have the support of the majority has nothing to do with it.

There is nothing stopping the Governor General or Monarch appointing whoever the hell they like. They simply are following the advice of Parliament. They can ignore this advice if they wish.

themacedonian

02-26-2012, 08:41 PM

And you are incorrect. Political parties or a parliament majority have nothing to do with who becomes Prime Minister. The Prime Minister like all Cabinet Ministers are appointed by the Governor General or the Monarch if she is in country. what political party they are in or whether they have the support of the majority has nothing to do with it. There is nothing stopping the Governor General or Monarch appointing whoever the hell they like. They simply are following the advice of Parliament. They can ignore this advice if they wish.Convention has it G-G follows the parliamentary majority and names the nominated person as PM. Having said that G-G has vested powers that can name anyone as PM. Which at this day and age would be a scandal to go against majority.

Toddy1

02-26-2012, 08:50 PM

I think that's what Min said :)

Violet Fashion by Mindy

02-26-2012, 08:51 PM

braveheartnju

02-26-2012, 09:27 PM

a liar and an ego, labor party is doomed

Wally1967

02-27-2012, 02:25 AM

From 7News

Who do you intend to vote for at the next election?

Labor (2790)15%
Liberal/National (12575)65%
Green (1068)6%
Independent (1086)6%
Other (1533)8%

....Labor doomed.

Homer

02-27-2012, 05:40 AM

Convention has it G-G follows the parliamentary majority and names the nominated person as PM. Having said that G-G has vested powers that can name anyone as PM. Which at this day and age would be a scandal to go against majority.

That's exactly what Min said.
I wonder what would happen, what peoples reactions would be, if the GG did decide to do that.

I get the feeling Rudd isn't done quite just yet. Labor will lose the next election by the looks of things.
Another challenge after the next election? Maybe a third contender will step into the ring?

digrar

02-27-2012, 06:29 AM

Exactly convention. It is not law. It is not written down on a piece of paper anywhere as a rule.

Seriously if there is one thing that annoys me is when people do not know how our system works and make assumptions.

It's not hard to find out.

Meanwhile back in reality, the G-G appoints whoever the Party running the show says is the boss man/lady and when Labor are getting bent over by independants, then they have influence in who gets to run the show if they can act collectively.

Toddy1

02-27-2012, 05:39 PM

Rudd knew he was short of votes, yes the people love him but most of the party hates him. So was Rudd used as a proxy to draw out the votes for the most hated man in the party so that another Crean, Shorten can take those votes plus there own to oust Gillard before the next election?

BLUE THOR

02-27-2012, 05:47 PM

Next election I am voting for Harry.

Toddy1

02-27-2012, 05:58 PM

Next election I am voting for Harry.
King Harry Windsor of Australia - I'd rather have an Apache pilot running our country than the pencil pushing morons we have at present. He is the modern day Henry V :)