Our business too[Russia+UE]

[mack pl]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/comment/0,11538,1298894,00.html

part of article
"Experts suggest that western help to train Russian special forces might be welcome: Mr Putin has publicly acknowledged the evident shortcomings of their performance at School No 1 in Beslan, part of the wider weakness of the post-Soviet state. The west should also be quick to press home the case for better access for humanitarian relief organisations, which have long been hampered by the Russian military. It could then hold out the carrot of longer-term structural aid and institution-building that the EU - desperate to do something constructive with its most important and volatile neighbour - would be prepared to mobilise as part of a broader strategy. Observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe - a body favoured by Moscow - should be allowed to operate freely in Chechnya. Restrictions on journalists, one of the reasons so little is known about the war, should be lifted too. Security - stopping evil people killing the innocent - is paramount. Yet hearts and minds must be won as well. It will now be harder than before, but Russia's friends have a duty to urge it to seek political dialogue that promises some slender hope beyond the bloodshed."

......
Regards
mack pl

[moughoun]

Maybe GROM, might go in and train them up a bit, improve relation's at the same time, everyone's a winner, except the dead terrorist's

[mack pl]

Maybe GROM, might go in and train them up a bit, improve relation's at the same time, everyone's a winner, except the dead terrorist's

well, Im sure Russian SF are very well trained, but the point is-We should train together, our SF units should divide(?) knowledge etc...

its not another thread-"How good are ours SF, and how lame are Russian SF units".......all units had some skills, and we shouldn't keep them only for us, our SF units should play in one league...because we have the same enemy-Terrorists....thats my point...

btw I would like to see Alfa operators in Poland in some join training with GROM, Im sure both units could learn something interesting from eachother....

Regards

[fdt]

Maybe GROM, might go in and train them up a bit, improve relation's at the same time, everyone's a winner, except the dead terrorist'sIMHO Russia is not seeking for any help in training nor planning. They have quite decent CT forces that are well trained in combat maybe even in hostage situations. Russian authorities now are rather seeking now political benefits of the tragedy. Many Chechens have been seeking refuge in West, many have found it. Russians want West to crack down on them in their alleged terrorist activities... and propaganda activities that spoil the Russian image in West now. Russian authorities will not allow West (OSCE or any other organisation) to sniff at Chechnya, because they consider that as "unacceptable involvement in internal affairs of Russian Federation". Media will not be granted a free access to Chechnya too... if even they would be allowed - safety of the journalists there would be at least doubtful as many Chechen clans considers kidnapping as a good business... and there were also many cases of "unresolved kidnappings" that "nobody knew" who kidnappers were... ;) .

I think, that this tragedy will not change much in overall situation and mutual approach of West and Russia... problem is that both sides have not much confidence to each other... what is a pity... Both sides know each other's agendas that unfortunatelly do not match.... for now.

Good beginning of the new level co-operation would be an honest information exchange on the terrorist events and activities ... but this seems to be more difficult than many assumed.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=38855


Moscow Outrage over Dutch "Blasphemy"


Politics: 4 September 2004, Saturday.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has dismissed as blasphemous the statement of Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot with which he asked Russia to explain the high death toll in the Beslan school hostage crisis.

"In the situation, in which the whole world knew that the main priority was saving the children, and there would be no storm, we consider the minister's remarks as blasphemous," Lavrov said.

In a statement in the name of the presidency of the 25-nation EU, Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot on Friday said all countries should work together to prevent such tragedies.

"But we also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/chechnya/Story/0,2763,1298019,00.html


Dutch provoke diplomatic row by questioning siege tactics

Kremlin rails at first criticism

Owen Bowcott
Monday September 6, 2004
The Guardian

The first muted criticisms of Russia's handling of the siege - and the protracted Chechen crisis - emerged at the weekend amid outpourings of humanitarian sympathy.
The Dutch government, which holds the European Union presidency, asked the Russian authorities to explain "how this tragedy could have happened". Diplomats at Valkenburg in the Nether lands, where EU ministers met, said Latvia, the former Soviet republic, had also pressed other states to react more strongly to Russia's conduct of the security operation.

In London, the Conservative foreign affairs spokesman, Michael Ancram, cautioned about the danger of pursuing "military solutions internally" and urged President Vladimir Putin to refrain from launching a backlash against the Islamic community in the region.

For many politicians and commentators, the massacre served to reinforce international alliance and extend battle lines in the war against terrorism. In the Arab world, the atrocity was widely perceived as discrediting the cause of Chechen independence and Islamism.

Russia denounced the request by Bernard Bot, the Dutch foreign minister, for an explanation for the bloody end to the hostage seizure. "In a situation when the whole world knew that the main priority was saving children, and that there would be no storming, to hear such words from a minister seems to us to be blasphemy," Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, said.

The Dutch ambassador in Moscow was summoned to the foreign ministry on Saturday to clarify Mr Bot's remarks. Mr Bot insisted he had been misunderstood and said he would try to calm the row by talking to his Russian counterpart. After the same meeting, the Swedish foreign minister, Laila Freivalds, said she understood the Russian reaction, while the Irish foreign minister, Brian Cowen, said it would be "a very premature and wrong judgment" to fault the Russian security forces.

Italy's foreign minister, Franco Frattino, spoke for many when he said: "We understand the tragic dilemma in which Russia found itself. Nobody in Europe has ever doubted, and nobody does in Italy, that, in such a tragic moment, to our Russian friends we should only express solidarity and outrage at terrorism, which has caused these innocent deaths."

In the past, Russia has accused European governments of hypocrisy for pursuing the war against terrorism while criticising Russia's human rights record in Chechnya. Mr Putin has characterised his southern war as another front in the fight against international terrorism.

Russian officials allege that EU states are sheltering Chechen warlords. Last year they failed to extradite Akhmed Zakayev, a London-based envoy for the Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov. Moscow has also been critical of Scandinavian states deemed to be sympathetic to the Chechen cause.

In the US, news of the death toll prompted President George Bush to call it "another grim reminder of the length to which terrorists will go to threaten this civilised world".

The president's spokesman, Scott McClellan, later added: "The responsibility for the tragic loss of life rests with the terrorists. The United States stands side by side with Russia in our global fight against terrorism."

France, which, like Russia, opposed the war in Iraq, offered practical support and political backing. "In the face of this terrible terrorist drama, I want to convey my emotion and to express the solidarity of France with the Russian people," President Jacques Chirac said in a letter to Mr Putin.

In the Arab world, there was similar outrage. "What happened at the ill-fated school is not only unjustifiable and unacceptable," Jordan's Al-Dustur newspaper said. "It also provokes anger and revulsion among Muslim public opinion, since it tarnishes the name of all Muslims and distorts the image of our noble faith."

http://www.capitallinkrussia.com/news/20040904170219.html


Russia bewildered by Dutch Foreign Ministry's statement
09/04/04

The Russian Foreign Ministry has called sacrilegious the request of the Dutch Foreign Ministry to explain the reasons for the tragedy in Beslan. According to Senior Deputy Foreign Minister Valery Loshchinin, the request made by the Dutch Foreign Minister bewildered and shocked Russia, as the cause-effect relation of what happened in Beslan was obvious to everyone because everything was broadcast live.

[Sergei]

Maybe GROM, might go in and train them up a bit, improve relation's at the same time, everyone's a winner, except the dead terrorist's

well, Im sure Russian SF are very well trained, but the point is-We should train together, our SF units should divide(?) knowledge etc...

its not another thread-"How good are ours SF, and how lame are Russian SF units".......all units had some skills, and we shouldn't keep them only for us, our SF units should play in one league...because we have the same enemy-Terrorists....thats my point...

btw I would like to see Alfa operators in Poland in some join training with GROM, Im sure both units could learn something interesting from eachother....

Regards

The problem is not so much with training of SF but the political asylum that many chechen terrorists get in the West, namely Zakaev, and support they receive, like from Vanessa Redgrave and other liberal scums.
I hope you get my point, that even a top-notch SF will stop something like hostage taking as long as terrorists are given a free ride in some parts of the world.

[bison3255]

they get assasinated asylum or not case in point qatar

[mack pl]

The problem is not so much with training of SF but the political asylum that many chechen terrorists get in the West, namely Zakaev, and support they receive, like from Vanessa Redgrave and other liberal scums.
I hope you get my point, that even a top-notch SF will stop something like hostage taking as long as terrorists are given a free ride in some parts of the world.

yeah, I know what are you talking....anyway, I doubt "West" and Russia will cooperate in this matter(asylum etc.).....its politic, and different point of view....Russia always had different point of view than "West", so this cooperation is very difficult, maybe even impossible :roll:

Regards