Iran and the bomb...waht are they realy want ?

[UoUo]

As you all know iran is make a Nuclear Weapons...as we all know iran is a country that help terorisem..(hizbulla...al quida..and the list go on..)

what you think america and the free world should do ?

[Chet Mystery]

Bitch and complain about it...

And then when we finally say we are going to take action against them, people will bitch and complain about us being the bad guy.

That seems to be the biggest craze these days :roll:

[spier]

As you all know iran is make a Nuclear Weapons...as we all know iran is a country that help terorisem..(hizbulla...al quida..and the list go on..)

what you think america and the free world should do ?See how he put America in a different category than "the free world".

I like this man.

[Smintjes]

To have the common sense not to light the fuse of this powderkeg...

[UoUo]

As you all know iran is make a Nuclear Weapons...as we all know iran is a country that help terorisem..(hizbulla...al quida..and the list go on..)

what you think america and the free world should do ?See how he put America in a different category than "the free world".

I like this man.

what do you mean ... ?

[DixieDude]

rofl

[spier]

Haha and stuff.

[Seiyuuki]

...

[spier]

See how he put America in a different category than "the free world".

I like this man.

Yeah...real funny...this coming from someone who think that the Allies fighting back against the Germans and Japanese were an act of terrorism.Wow, did I write that? Or did I write that the killing of thousands of civilans could be considered as an act of terrorism?

If you want to go down that path again then you have just, indirectly, said that the 9/11 strike was a fair fight meant to take out vital military installations. :roll:

[Ratamacue]

Way to hijack the thread, both of you guys. Bravi, ragazzi.

[Seiyuuki]

...

[Kriz]

To have the common sense not to light the fuse of this powderkeg...
same here :D

[spier]

Sure, WORLD TRADE Center was certainly a vital US military target.Thank you for proving my point.*

*assuming you meant it sarcastically.

[Seiyuuki]

Sure, WORLD TRADE Center was certainly a vital US military target.Thank you for proving my point.*

*assuming you meant it sarcastically.

Yes, and everyone inside dress in BDU, carry an M-16 and follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

It's so nice you're trying to justify why your friends flew those planes into the WTC on 9/11, you don't have to prove to us how supportive you are of them.

[Herrmannek]

Seiyuuki & spier plz stop making village. :)

[vmpsmII]

Doesn't Israel have nuclear weapons also, why don't you bomb them why should "the United States and the free world" do the job for you guys?

[Seiyuuki]

There would be objection from the free world if Isreal did something.

There would be no objection from the free world if the free world did something.

[vmpsmII]

Sure but that would open a dangerous precedent for the future since nobody wins in a nuclear war.

[budanski]

Doesn't Israel have nuclear weapons also, why don't you bomb them why should "the United States and the free world" do the job for you guys?

I didnt get the memo that the U.S. would attack any nations in possesion of nuclear weapons.

Considering that oil rich Iran has no other use for a nuclear reactor than for developing weapons, don't be surprised if a repeat attack will be carried out like the one on Iraq from the Israelis.

Israel, unlike the US, is not hindered by a PC culture and endless debates on such vital issues as the security of their people. When the time is right, they will do what they have to do to preserve Israel regardless of what any of the Iranian mullahs or anti-Semite socialist worldwide have to say.

[StarvingStudent47]

I think that we should see if we can cool things down on the Korean Peninsula, and then use whatever methods worked there in Iran.

Fact is, though Iranian mullahs are pretty scary, and the liberal President Muhammad Khatami is losing the power structure, Iran's government is still a LOT easier to predict than the clinically insane Kim Jong Il.

[StarvingStudent47]

See how he put America in a different category than "the free world".

I like this man.

Ever seen the movie or read the comic "Josie and the Pussycats"? Well, Josie IS a Pussycat, even though she is listed separately. She is actually listed separately because she is the lead singer of the Pussycats. America is to the free world what Josie is to the Pussycats (no, I don't mean "the sexiest member").

[martinexsquaddie]

oh I don't know I think condawhatis rice the secuirity advisor would look quite good in a pussycat outfit :lol:

[RealUltimatePower]

Yea exactly what student said, America is the leader of the Free world so that's what that guy meant by "and the free world".

Furthermore jsut the fact you can't see the difference between terrorism and collateral damage shows me how dumb you are. In one case people make killing civies their primary target and go out of their way to inflict damage on civilians. However when a warplane has a bomb go a stray and kill a few dozen innoncents it isn't terrorism. Because we never said hey lets go bomb a hospital. Of course the endstate is just as sad the intentions were different. That's the seperation between terrorists and western troops.

As for us killing civilians back in WW2, that's a completely different matter. Back then civilians were considered targets and very easy ones at that. It's pretty retarded for you to compare actions from over half a century ago to present day actions.

[spier]

Yea exactly what student said, America is the leader of the Free world so that's what that guy meant by "and the free world".

Furthermore jsut the fact you can't see the difference between terrorism and collateral damage shows me how dumb you are. In one case people make killing civies their primary target and go out of their way to inflict damage on civilians. However when a warplane has a bomb go a stray and kill a few dozen innoncents it isn't terrorism. Because we never said hey lets go bomb a hospital. Of course the endstate is just as sad the intentions were different. That's the seperation between terrorists and western troops.

As for us killing civilians back in WW2, that's a completely different matter. Back then civilians were considered targets and very easy ones at that. It's pretty retarded for you to compare actions from over half a century ago to present day actions.Hm, it could have been a joke you know, with that "haha" and all.. :roll:

For the rest of you post: rofl

Just a tiny pile of unimaginitive and worthless excuses. Although the bit about it being "completely different" was amusing at first. When I thought you were joking.

[GazB]

"Considering that oil rich Iran has no other use for a nuclear reactor than for developing weapons, don't be surprised if a repeat attack will be carried out like the one on Iraq from the Israelis. "

Ahh, so the Iranians cannot have Nuclear power plants because you say so. If the Iranians really wanted nuclear weapons they have chosen to get the Russians to build them the wrong type of nuclear reactor. Equally their compliance with international regulations and the fact that they are not even intending to reprocess the nuclear rods themselves, but send them back to Russia for reprocessing suggests that if they have a nuclear program then it is mature enough for them to do it with outside help... the type of reactor the Russians are building for them and the fact that they wont even have a reprocessing plant built on their territory by the Russians suggest they can do it on their own.

According to the Cia world factbook they produce 3.804 million bbl/day (2001 est.) but use 1.277 million bbl/day (2001 est.). Seems to me if they earn most of their money exporting oil that using nuclear to provide electricity for their own needs makes sense... it frees up more oil to earn export dollars.

[He219]

It's inevitable that nations like Iran as well as others will develop the capability to produce nuclear weapons over time. It would be impractical to bomb them all. The real question is in the level of accountability for possible abuse of having this capability.

[budanski]

Not surprising coming from you GazB, all for the sake to further finance research for more Russian gear to drool over.

New Report Cites Traces of Uranium at Iran Plant (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/27/international/middleeast/27NATI.html?ex=1062561600&en=9da674e9ff02959f&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE)
U.N. finds radioactive traces at site in Iran (http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030827-121007-1943r.htm)
U.N. Finds Uranium at Iran Nuclear Plant (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/6621376.htm)

In case you've forgotten to take off your blinders, heres one more:
Iraninan Press Service:RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL (http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm)

As I said, If Israel feels threatened, they'll do what they do to eliminate that threat. They are less tolerate than the U.S.

[martinexsquaddie]

oh yes gaz bad enough israel got nukes

[mocking_loudly]

Ill be honest and say I only read one of two posts on this topic.

No one is going to change any ones opinion on Middle East matters...why?....because of our basic arrogant assumption that we are already right.

The Middle East has no peace-orientated solution - the hatred between the various parties is so ingrained that the only way forward is complete annihilation.

I just hope they remember to set the cameras up so we can sit back here and make important military observations.

"whooooa, look at the dude explode when that Israeli shot a 203 up his ass!"

Excuse me I have a pie to collect....

[GazB]

"Not surprising coming from you GazB, all for the sake to further finance research for more Russian gear to drool over."

Most of Irans hardware is American. F-4s, F-14s etc etc. The Iranians are not likely to spend very much on military hardware... China and India spend far more.

I could turn around what you have said and say that what you say is not surprising either. Iran has gone through some very tough times and been crapped on from a great height by both Britain and the US... the British basically used it for oil supply... British companies basically owning the countries oil. The US interfered with elections in Iran and brought a nutter to power, who was worse than most of their leaders before or since. But it is Iran that is evil? It is little Iran that can't be trusted? The US has stated it would like to go in and change the government. They have named Iran as being part of the axis of evil. Is the US really objective enough to make such statements?
China has nukes... why don't they use them? Russia has nukes, why don't they use them? The US has nukes, why has it only used them twice?
Why would Iran use nukes? Why would it destroy sites of historical significance to its own religion? Why would it think the US or Israel itself would not retaliate?

[RealUltimatePower]

Yea so glad you find civilian deaths amuzing there spier. Just goes further to showing us what kind of a moron you are.

[S'13]

This is what I think should be done: http://www.wrmea.com/Washington-Report_org/www/backissues/0695/9506081.htm

[He219]

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world"

"Jews shall expect to be once again scattered and wandering around the globe the day when this appendix is extracted from the region and the Muslim world", Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani warned, blaming on the United States and Britain the "creation of the fabricated entity" in the heart of Arab and Muslim world.

Pretty scary stuff, Budanski.......

:|

[spier]

Yea so glad you find civilian deaths amuzing there spier. Just goes further to showing us what kind of a moron you are.You sig:
What makes the grass grow!
BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD
What do we do!
KILL KILL KILL
Although I don't find the killing of civilians amusing, I do think people saying that it is "completely different" when the US does it is.

Idiot.

[StarvingStudent47]

Nobody worries about Britain having nuclear weapons because we know they won't use them except as a response to nuclear attack.

Nobody worries about Israel having nuclear weapons because we know they won't use them except as a response to nuclear attack (the litmus test being the Yom Kippur War--as expected, Israel did not launch even when it was losing early on).

Countries like North Korea and Iran are different because we have no freaking idea what they'd do with weapons. First launch? Sell them to the highest bidder? Who knows?

That's why there's a "double standard" in who we "let" have nuclear weapons. It seems like a reasonable double standard to me.

[budanski]

Wackos do not see a difference between weapons in the hands of democratically elected governments and weapons in the hands of brutal tyrants.

[GazB]

"Countries like North Korea and Iran are different because we have no freaking idea what they'd do with weapons. First launch? Sell them to the highest bidder? Who knows? "

I am pretty sure that if the Israeli government truely thought it was going to be overrun that nuclear weapons would have been used. The fact they didn't use them when initially attacked means nothing.
The fact that you can't treat North Korea or Iran as rational is your problem.
They didn't send little HAMAS teams to the US to blow up the twin towers even after you blew up half their fleet and shot down one of their airliners.
They do support terrorist groups, but then so do you... one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Saudi Arabia spends more money helping terrorists than Iran does... simply because it has more money to give.

If the Israelis try to bomb Iran I will be very interested... Israeli pilots are very capable and professional, but I wonder how they'll go having to fly that far and coming up against F-14s?
Of course they could take a short cut over Iraq... wonder what effect that will have on relations... and of course they'd have to go over Jordan.

Even if they succeeded I am sure it would only be the best reason the Iranians could have to buy S-300s.

[Seiyuuki]

Damn...I didn't know the F-14 was that good in the hand of the Iranians!!!

[Bulkowski]

UoUo, how come you always manage to spell tons of stuff wrong?

[Vance]

UoUo, how come you always manage to spell tons of stuff wrong?
Because he's from Isreal and English isn't his first language.

[budanski]

Hi Mom

[Trigger]

GazB wrote:

I wonder how they'll go having to fly that far and coming up against F-14s?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're referring to Iranian F-14s? From the '70s? Last I heard they weren't all too reliable since we haven't supplied spare parts for roughly a quarter-century. I haven't researched it but I doubt they would trouble the Israelis much. I'm not slamming you, just wondering.

[GazB]

"Damn...I didn't know the F-14 was that good in the hand of the Iranians!!!"

The Iraqis in the gulf war (ie desert storm... when they had an AF) are on record as not turning from a fight when F-15s or F-16s or F-18 turned on their radars, but when they detected F-14 frequency radars painting them they turned and ran. This suggests they recognised the F-14 by its radar (which you'd expect after fighting Iran), and that they knew its capabilities.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're referring to Iranian F-14s? From the '70s? Last I heard they weren't all too reliable since we haven't supplied spare parts for roughly a quarter-century. I haven't researched it but I doubt they would trouble the Israelis much. I'm not slamming you, just wondering."

I don't know a huge amount about the F-14, but I know a chap who does. Tom Cooper has cowritten one of the few books published on the Iran/Iraq war, and although we are not buddies I have respect for his knowledge on the subject. Check out www.acig.org

If you can't be bothered let me just say that the Iran Iraq war took place long after the US had withdrawn its aid and there is evidence that Irans F-14s may have gotten more than 70 kills.

They have been shown in recent Iranian airshows and seem to be in full service. The Iranians are not stupid and are very resourceful.

[StarvingStudent47]

If you can't be bothered let me just say that the Iran Iraq war took place long after the US had withdrawn its aid and there is evidence that Irans F-14s may have gotten more than 70 kills.

Yeah, against Iraqi pilots. Not exactly Top Gun here. I think that against a properly-trained air force (Israel, or for that matter USA, Britain, Germany, whatever), Iranian pilots would get massacred. This is just for the record--I don't think it's likely that anyone will be going to war with Iran any time soon. I think all of this is just posturing.

[Seiyuuki]

Maybe I should have added:

Damn...I didn't know the F-14 was that good in the hand of the Iranians!!!



While service of the F-14 in the US Navy is well-known and well-documented, by the classic film Top Gun, at the very least, its operations with the Imperial Iranian Air Force (IIAF) and Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) have largely remained a mystery. Under the pro-western Shah of Iran, the IIAF had benefitted greatly by interaction with the West, and Iran was able to purchase large amounts of sophisticated US military equipment to protect against the Soviet threat. By the early 1970s, the bulk of the IIAF was made up of Northrop F-5A and E, McDonnell Douglas F-4D and E Phantom II, and Lockheed P-3F Orion aircraft. However, none of these were able to ward off Soviet MiG-25 reconnaissance fighters that were making frequent flights over Iranian terrirory. This fact was made clear to US President Richard Nixon during his visit to Iran in May 1972 during which the Shah requested a means of intercepting the high-speed Soviet aircraft.

Having received permission from the US government, Iran decided to purchase the F-14 Tomcat over a competing F-15 Eagle offer. An intial order for 30 F-14s was signed in January 1974, and this number was later increased to 80. The first of these aircraft arrived in Iran in January 1976, differing only from their American counterparts in the removal of certain classified avionics systems. These aircraft were also fitted with the improved TF30-414 engine, standard on later production models. Twelve aircraft were delivered by May 1977, and one of these was used to shoot down a BQM-34E target drone flying at 50,000 feet with an AIM-54 Phoenix missile in August of that year. This successful demonstration quickly convinced the Soviets to end the MiG-25 overflights. Deliveries continued until 1978 when the 79th unit was delivered, one example remaining in the US as a testbed (this plane was later transferred to US Navy flight test duties at the Point Mugu Naval Air Station following the Revolution). Some 714 Phoenix missiles were also ordered, but only 284 of these were delivered by the time of the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

Following the overthrow of the Shah and the ascension of Ayatolla Khomeini to power, the new government cancelled further contracts for Phoenix missiles and other Western arms. Continuing decay in relations with the US led Pres. Carter to impose an arms embargo on Iran that still continues today. Without Western contractor assistance, a lack of spare parts and maintenance support quickly degraded the ability of the IRIAF to operate its fleet of US-built aircraft. Fundamentalist purges of Air Force officers, pilots, and personnel who were perceived to support the Shah further worsened the situation.

In addition to the effects of the embargo itself, it has also been reported that all 77 remaining Tomcats (two had been lost in 1977 during training flights) were somehow sabotaged so that they could no longer fire their Phoenix missiles. Who performed this sabotage and how is still not known for sure, but various accounts credit either departing Grumman technicians or Iranian Air Force personnel friendly to the US. Perhaps the simplest and most effective means of performing this sabotage would have been to remove or somehow corrupt the software in the aircraft's flight computer that interfaces with and commands the missiles, but we do not have any proof that this was done. Some sources even go so far as to claim that Iranian revolutionaries performed the sabotage as revenge against an Air Force perceived to be pro-Shah, but this seems unlikely.

Regardless, the IRIAF was in a rapid state of decline by the time the Iran-Iraq War began on 22 September 1980. Due to the poor state of both air forces, air power played little role in the conflict. Early air battles tended to favor the Iranians whose pilots were better equipped and trained, but the lingering arms embargo and repeated purges of experienced personnel continued to reduce the nation's air capabilities. Meanwhile, Iraq took delivery of Dassault Mirage F1s armed with Matra R-550 Magic air-to-air missiles that steadily improved the nation's effectiveness in the air.

As for the F-14s, only a small number were ever airworthy at any given time (generally 10 to 20) and these were typically kept out of combat. They were most often used as airborne early warning platforms owing to the design's powerful radar, and were therefore deemed too valuable to risk in air-to-air combat. In this role, the planes were sometimes defended by F-4E and F-5E fighters. At least some F-14s were lost in action, but the claims of the two sides are in poor agreement, as is always the case in warfare. Iraq claims some 11 kills:

1. 21 November 1982: F-14 shot down by a Mirage F1EQ
2. March 1983: F-14 shot down by a MiG-21
3. 11 September 1983: 2 F-14s shot down while attempting to intercept Iraqi aircraft
4. 4 October 1983: F-14 shot down in a dogfight
5. 21 November 1983: F-14 lost during air battle over Bahragan
6. 24 February 1984: F-14 lost
7. 1 July 1984: F-14 lost
8. 11 August 1984: 3 F-14s shot down

Meanwhile, Iran claims that the F-14 accounted for 35 to 45 kills against the Iraqi Air Force for only one shot down. Iran has admitted to up to 12 further losses, but claims they all resulted from engine stall during dogfights rather than enemy fire. Though the claims of neither side have been verified, F-14s are known to have accounted for 3 air-to-air kills against Iraqi aircraft, including two Mirage F1s and a MiG-21. Western estimates for the true kill-loss ratio attained by the F-14 during the conflict credit 4 kills against 4 or 5 losses.

The US has estimated the number of operational Iranian F-14s at any given time at 15 to 20, and sometimes less than 10, due to the cannibalization of other planes to keep a few flying. Iran claims a much higher number, of course, and was indeed able to assemble 25 aircraft for a flyby over Teheran on 11 February 1985. By whatever means, Iran has been able to maintain a steady supply of spare parts for its F-14s, F-4s, and F-5s in spite of the embargo. Some of these parts may have been supplied through the arms-for-hostages deal that was revealed during the Iran-Contra scandal. Other sources claim that parts may have been smuggled through collusion with Israel. Some parts are also manufactured domestically by Iranian Aircraft Industries, and Iran has even gone so far as to claim that 100% of the parts required to keep the aircraft operational can be produced domestically. Nonetheless, US intelligence places that value closer to 70%, and a number of foreign nationals have in fact been implicated in efforts to illegally smuggle aircraft components from the US to Iran. Two men were so charged in December 2000 for attempting to illegally purchase F-4, F-5, and F-14 parts and ship them to Iran by way of Singapore. A fellow named Houshang Amir Bagheri is still listed on the US Customs Most Wanted list for his attempts to acquire classified F-14 components on behalf of Iran.

But while Iran has managed to keep at least a portion of its Western aircraft in service, the status of the vaunted Phoenix missile is still debated. Most sources indicate that none were used during the Iran-Iraq War owing to their supposed sabotage while others claim that up to 25 Iraqi planes were downed by AIM-54s before Iran exhasuted its supply in 1986. Regardless, the aircraft is still able to fire AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-9 Sidweinder missiles, and typically carries four AIM-7s and two AIM-9s for air-to-air operations. Iran is reportedly developing a domestic version of the Sparrow to replace its stock of expended missiles.

It is also believed that one or more F-14s were delivered to the Soviet Union in exchange for technical assistance. In addition, at least one Iranian F-14 aircrew was reported to have defected to the Soviet Union with their aircraft. Some believe that Soviet access to Iranian Phoenix missiles allowed the Vympel Design Bureau to develop the R-33/AA-9 Amos long-range missile that equips the MiG-31, but chief designer Gennadiy Sokolovskiy has indicated that his team never had such access. In any event, it is believed that Soviet and Russian expertise has allowed Iran to operate, maintain, and upgrade the F-14 fleet. The aircraft are reportedly being upgraded with a new Russian radar, engines, and a glass cockpit allowing them to serve until well into the 21st century. The Iranian press has further indicated that the surviving aircraft have been adapted for a heavy bombing roll, perhaps armed with air-to-surface anti-ship missiles. Some 50 to 55 are believed to remain in service, but only about 30 of these are considered airworthy at any one time.

[budanski]

Targeting Iran
By Bill Gertz and Rowan Scarborough

THE WASHINGTON TIMES (http://www.washtimes.com/national/inring.htm)
****Israel has ready a plan to bomb Iran's Bushehr nuclear-power plant should the Persian Gulf coast facility, now under construction, begin producing weapons-grade material, an insider tells us.

****This source says Israel has mapped out a route its jet fighters would take to destroy what is designed to be a two-reactor plant. A successful strike would ensure that the radical Tehran regime does not develop nuclear weapons. Iran has tested 600-mile-range ballistic missiles that can reach Israel and carry nuclear, biological or chemical warheads.

****Russia has signed an $800 million contract to provide two reactors for the plant near the port city of Bushehr. The United States opposes the deal, as well as any nuclear program in Iran.

****Israeli F-16s penetrated Iraqi airspace in 1981 to bomb the Osiraq nuclear-power plant, at the Tuwaitha nuclear center near Baghdad. Analysts believe the action, while condemned by the international community, kept Saddam Hussein from acquiring the bomb.

****U.S. Central Command has contingency plans for war with Iran, but there is no active discussion of invading a country that President Bush has put in the "axis of evil." Still, some in the Pentagon talk unofficially of what would be needed to take out the Bushehr plant.

Iran has has openly declared it's wish for an end to the Jewish state. Like I said, don't be surprised.

[GazB]

"While service of the F-14 in the US Navy is well-known and well-documented, by the classic film Top Gun, at the very least, its operations with the Imperial Iranian Air Force (IIAF) and Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) have largely remained a mystery. "

Perhaps you should go to www.acig.org Tom is quite biased in favour of the F-14...

"Iran has has openly declared it's wish for an end to the Jewish state. Like I said, don't be surprised."

And bush has talked to god about the axis of evil countries... pretty sure he wants to do to them what Iranian religious leaders want to do to Israel... what is your point? Israel can look after herself... she has show that many times.

"Yeah, against Iraqi pilots. Not exactly Top Gun here."

No, not Topgun.. the real world.

"This is just for the record--I don't think it's likely that anyone will be going to war with Iran any time soon. "

Well the US and UK did so well in Iraq with 20 odd million... try Iran with 60 million fanatics.

[Seiyuuki]

The Iranians also told me that the actual combat kills for the F-14 were around 236,855,324 in the war. Also it was commented just by having the F-14, the Iranian Air Force have become one of the premier dominant Air Force in the world capable of wiping the floor clean with anyone anyday.


"Iran has has openly declared it's wish for an end to the Jewish state. Like I said, don't be surprised."

And bush has talked to god about the axis of evil countries... pretty sure he wants to do to them what Iranian religious leaders want to do to Israel... what is your point? Israel can look after herself... she has show that many times.

Yeah...and the United States is rule by a council of Protestants' "mullah" that dictate all our policies. What is your point?


No, not Topgun.. the real world.

Oh schuck!!! I always thought the Navy's fighter school in Fallen, Nevada was named after the "Top Gun" movie and all the pilots that graduated from the school are called "Top Gun" too just because of the movie. I'll bet they have a time machine somewhere and when they needed a name for the school in the 60s', they went forward in time to the 80s' to saw the movie, then came back and gave the school the name "Top Gun."

[GazB]

Ohhh you are absolutely right... fighting over neutral territory in F-14s and F-15s against F-5s is exactly like flying a very long way over lots of enemy territory, into enemy airspace to attack a target that is no doubt defended by a SAM system that the US has never come up against before.

What was I thinking?

I am sure a strike against Iran would be met with a huge upswelling of good will from all Iranians and all Iranian backed groups.

[Seiyuuki]

Ohhh you are absolutely right... fighting over neutral territory in F-14s and F-15s against F-5s is exactly like flying a very long way over lots of enemy territory, into enemy airspace to attack a target that is no doubt defended by a SAM system that the US has never come up against before.

What was I thinking?

It is no longer F-5, but F-16 and F-18. Yeah...What was I thinking? I no longer any faith in the capability of the US's military aviation and their pilots, those idiots are worthless. The Iranian, ever since they were given the F-14 have dominated the sky and even the US are rank far behind them. US technology are so far behind the Iranian and so far outdated that it lack any capacity what so ever for an effective suppression system for Iranian's SAM. Who the hell would be stupid enough to invent in-flight refuelling? With the exception of the Iranian, what is the point if no other Air Force in world can have pilots crossing great distance and carry out a successful strike operation. Even Israel couldn't carry out a successful strike of a nuclear reactor in Iraq, who the hell would think they would be successful in Iran? You can see it now...whenever the Iranian F-14 meet any USs' planes in the hostile sky...those poor American bastards won't even have a chance. It's a given, Iranians' pilot are far superior than Americans' pilots anyday anywhere, those Americans' weaklings can't even fly around for hours without losing any effectiveness.

[GazB]

"Seiyuuki"

Yeah, whatever.