Bush Jr. Suspended: failed to meet NG pilot standards!!!!!!

[obd]

Newly unconvered National Guard records now show that Bush was suspended from flying for the National Guard because he failed to meet set standards for pilots and also failed to show up for mandatory physical tests, inlcuding drug tests. Jeez!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040909/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_national_guard&cid=544&ncid=716

[obd]

haha, every time I here new stuff about how pitiful George Bush was with regard to his national guard service I think back to what he said a long time ago when questions about his service first came up: "Im proud of my service to my country"

Well George, by the time I was 20 years old I had given more service to my country's military then you had during all your time in the National Guard. As I learned in ROTC, part of service is getting up each morning at 5:00 AM, getting dressed, and SHOWING UP!!!!!!!!!! I volunteered for Ranger ROTC program to challenge myself. You tried everything in your power to shirk your duties and get out of service.........you really are a joke and a disgrace and its no wonder the rest of the world hates us with you at the helm................

For christs sake, I dont think I have even witnessed a more pitiful example of a serving soldier than George Bush. EVERYONE in my ROTC class, even the fat asses and the guys who got drunk whenever they could, showed up!!!! But you!! You!!! You cant even follow simple orders to just be where you are supossed to be at the time you are supposed to be there!!!!!!! If you were anybody else but an over priviledge idiot son of the President, you would have been booted out of there faster than you could say "Errr....Im a lookin fer some Armadillas to shoot with this here rifle"

George, its clear you just wanted to work on your political future while you were in the NG. You were not serving your country, you were only serving yourself!!! You make me sick!!! You are the worlds biggest lazy ass, the worlds biggest underaciever, and the worlds greatest idiot. What makes it all so hard to take is that despite all your failings and faults you still managed to become president of the United States...........I fear for the future of my great country..............

[priccobe]

How did he get suspended if he was AWOL?

[priccobe]

"What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets..."

Read the rest here: http://www.thehill.com/york/090904.aspx

[XASA]

Already being discussed in great detail in another thread:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24074

[Trigger]

obd (AKA the Tourettes kid) wrote:

If you were anybody else but an over priviledge idiot son of the President, you would have been booted out of there faster than you could say "Errr....Im a lookin fer some Armadillas to shoot with this here rifle"
Your powers of deduction never fail to amuse me.
Tell me, my little undermedicated friend, when was George H. W. Bush President? Was it in the late 1960s? Could it be the early 1970s? Maybe you'd like to go for 'Double Jeopardy' and try the early 1980s? No? If he wasn't president until, hmmmm...after the election of 1988 how could George W. Bush possibly be the idiot son of a president during his time in the National Guard?

Once again, the only idiot present it YOU. You claim to be a college graduate? You couldn't think your way out of a wet paper bag. Now go take your meds and get out of my forum you pathetic excuse for a human being.

Love and kisses. :fork:

[Sir Zach of R.]

Can't think............... Going... back.. six months...... now the dems.... are.... just.... DESPERATE! AHHHHH! rofl

[obd]

haha nice. Well, by the time of George Jr.'s service it was clear where he was headed, which is why he requested time off of NG service to do political ass kissing contests.......

Oh yeah, and attacks on me dont really change the fact the Bush was susepended from the National Guard for failing the basic requirements of service, including physical fitness tests, and failure to show up for mandatory drug tests.........funny how you completely ignore that fact and launch attacks on me......after all, I wasnt attacking you.....I was attacking the moron that is Bush.............

[obd]

You know its kinda funny. Bush seems to have established a pattern in his life:

Get places off the hard work of others, then take vacations and act like a moron, then blame others when things go al to hell.

Fact is, the Clinton administration warned the Bush administration about the severe threat of Osama Bin Laden, they informed him of several attempts bu Clinton to kill Osama after it became clear he was more then just 1 of a million anti-American religious zealots around the world, and what did Bush do to combat the threat?? Hm.???

HE SPENT THE FIRST MONTHS OF HIS PRESIDENCY ON VACATION FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!!!!!

Sorry boys and girls, but you cant defend the nation and find a wanted man from the golf course, although thats what OJ Simpson wants us all to believe.....after all, as he said "Im spending my life hunting for my wifes true killer......now watch this drive".........

Whats funny is I caught news footage of Bush that was eirely similar to OJ Simpson. Bush said "Hard work and sacrifice of life are going to be necesarry in the months ahead in Iraq......now watch this drive"........what a freakin loser.........

If world leaders had to go fight themselves and send thier own sons and daughters to die to save thier dismal ratings and help them get re-elected......this world would be a much better place.......

[budanski]

Thanks XASA....

If this hasn't been posted before, this is an interesting bit on Bush's service: http://www.thehill.com/york/090904.aspx
Nice article.


...The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?...

Seems Bush far exceeded the minimum requirements. Now, if he could only figure out how to collect 5 medals in a span of 4 months, that'll be ****.

[budanski]

HE SPENT THE FIRST MONTHS OF HIS PRESIDENCY ON VACATION FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!!!!!
Vacations? Theyre called weekends. I'm sorry but Michael Moore used the Washington Post as his source and its been debunked.

[obd]

Actually, I remmember Bush's first months in office. Of course, being the new president he was pretty much nder 24/7 media coverage. Guess where he was 24/7: Golf course, Texas ranch, and uh.....pretty much thats it.......almost never in the white house..........end of story.

Bush spent his first months in office on vacation instead of attending to the national buisness. He should be impeached for dereliction of duty. He spent more days on vacation in his first 4 months than most presidents spend in two terms............its just plain sad.

[pistol]

There is a pretty good vid here of the guy who got Bush into the ANG talking about how bad he feels about it now:

http://media.greaterdemocracy.org/

[budanski]

Actually, I remmember Bush's first months in office. Of course, being the new president he was pretty much nder 24/7 media coverage. Guess where he was 24/7: Golf course, Texas ranch, and uh.....pretty much thats it.......almost never in the white house..........end of story.

Bush spent his first months in office on vacation instead of attending to the national buisness. He should be impeached for dereliction of duty. He spent more days on vacation in his first 4 months than most presidents spend in two terms............its just plain sad.
So the man likes to work at home on his 'working vacations'. I am fortunate enough to work at home at times. But I'm not fortunate enough to have my staff with me like Bush does. Notice everytime he's on 'vacation' his staff is with him? Rice, Card, etc.?


President Bush is accused of taking too many lazy vacations. (What is that about, by the way? Isn't he supposed to be an unceasing planner for future aggressive wars?) But the shot of him "relaxing at Camp David" shows him side by side with Tony Blair. I say "shows," even though this photograph is on-screen so briefly that if you sneeze or blink, you won't recognize the other figure. A meeting with the prime minister of the United Kingdom, or at least with this prime minister, is not a goof-off. (http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/)

For someone being absent so much, bills tend to miraculously get passed through. (http://www.calpoly.edu/~doleary/bushaccomplishments.htm)

So, what are your thoughts on Kerry? He's been on vacation 76% of his time for the past 20 years as senator.

[budanski]

There is a pretty good vid here of the guy who got Bush into the ANG talking about how bad he feels about it now:

http://media.greaterdemocracy.org/

Barnes was Texas House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, not lieutenant governor as he stated. I suggest you learn more about Ben Barnes (http://blogspirator.blogspot.com/2004/08/exclusive-dirt-on-ben-barnes-claims_29.html) before taking his word.

How convenient of Barnes to overlook this statement from his lawyer released 1999:


"Neither Congressman Bush nor any other member of the Bush family asked Barnes' help. Barnes has no knowledge that Governor Bush or President Bush knew of Barnes' recommendation,"

[scm77]

Vietnam is such a HUGE issue now for the democrats. Who served and who didn't. But when Clinton was running they were all "it isn't important what he did 30 years ago. It's important what he will do now".

The democrats are just getting desperate, and looking for anything to attack Bush on.

[Ekie]

Newly unconvered National Guard records now show that Bush was suspended from flying for the National Guard because he failed to meet set standards for pilots and also failed to show up for mandatory physical tests, inlcuding drug tests. Jeez!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040909/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_national_guard&cid=544&ncid=716

Documents are fake, go here:

http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200409\POL20040909d.html

Copies of the fake documents here:

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=272443&page=1

Note they are in WORD format, what a joke, not even a good fake. You would think the forger could have at least done them up on a type writer.

[priccobe]

Kerry's own words:

In the 1992 presidential election, when Bill Clinton was accused of dodging the Vietnam draft, Kerry said, “I am saddened by the fact that Vietnam has yet again been inserted into the campaign. ... The race for the White House should be about leadership, and leadership requires that one help heal the wounds of Vietnam, not reopen them."

[Ekie]

Latest on the forged documents:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/596astgo.asp

[Hiroshima]

Can't think............... Going... back.. six months...... now the dems.... are.... just.... DESPERATE! AHHHHH! rofl

Not really..it's an election year...EVERYONE is desperate.

[budanski]

Hey Ekie, its growing legs... Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html)

So they had Sen. Harkin (http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/08/war-party.html) spewing "Mr. Bush it is not about Vietnam, but integrity, honesty" on the CBS interview. Funny how Harkin lacks any of them himself.

[DPGLAW]

Who gives a flying Fuc*, this was thirty years ago and I think that President Bush's ability to Command and Lead the armed forces of this great Nation is DEFINITELY evident. He has proven that so something 30 years old shouldn't matter. And at least he didn't make up medals that he didn't earn and don't exist fpr that matter, (Silver Star with Combat V)....*cough cough kerry :) On top of that, to get 5 medals (3 purple hearts) in four months, I would venture to say it was deliberate. I eman for anyone to get that many medals in 4 months, I would guess that it is bull**** now, and bull**** then. However, the same goes for Kerry, I wish they woudl drop this vietnam **** as what you do when you are 20-25 years old has NOTHING to do with the type of person you are at 50-55 and beyond....

On top of that, check this article out. If it was posted already I apologize but it just goes to show that the author of this thread, CBS, and all the media outlets "Owned" by and catering strictly to- the Democratic party and liberals

[Ekie]

Hey Ekie, its growing legs... Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html)

So they had Sen. Harkin (http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/08/war-party.html) spewing "Mr. Bush it is not about Vietnam, but integrity, honesty" on the CBS interview. Funny how Harkin lacks any of them himself.

Yeah, just got thru reading that, wow what a scandal. Wonder how CBS is going to handle this. This they will hold firm thru Friday night, and hope it just blows over this weekend?

[Romulus]

Hey Ekie, its growing legs... Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html)

So they had Sen. Harkin (http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/08/war-party.html) spewing "Mr. Bush it is not about Vietnam, but integrity, honesty" on the CBS interview. Funny how Harkin lacks any of them himself.

Yeah, just got thru reading that, wow what a scandal. Wonder how CBS is going to handle this. This they will hold firm thru Friday night, and hope it just blows over this weekend?

rofl

I just wonder how stupid Sen. Harkin feels about now.

[budanski]

The blood is in the water for CBS... ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-1.html)


"These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:"


Not going too good for the kerry media. First the AP 'boos' now CBS. rofl

[Romulus]

Damn..... So desperate to get some dirt on Bush they resort to fraudulent documents and assure the American public that these are legit?



It's sad really. rofl

[Trigger]

CBS is going to get McHosed...I'm lovin' it!

Who wants a Big Mac?

[Romulus]

CBS is going to get McHosed...I'm lovin' it!

Who wants a Big Mac?


rofl rofl





Seriously though..... What's the penalty for doing something like this. slap on the wrist for CBS?

[Ekie]

http://drudgereport.com/601.jpg

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-1.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131954,00.html

http://drudgereport.com/cbsd1.htm


XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU SEPT 09, 2004 22:45:32 ET XXXXX

Marjorie Connell — widow of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, the reported author of memos suggesting that Bush did not meet the standards for the Texas Air National Guard — questions whether the documents are real on tonight's NIGHTLINE, sources tell DRUDGE.

Transcript:

I WAS ANGRY, BECAUSE HERE THEY ARE GOING BACK AND PULLING RECORDS OF A MAN WHO IS DECEASED TWENTY YEARS, WHO IS NOT HERE TO EXPLAIN WHAT ANY OF THESE DOCUMENTS SAID OR SUPPOSED TO HAVE SAID, AND I JUST FOUND IT APPALLING. I WAS SICK THAT HERE WITHOUT WARNING HIS PICTURES ARE UP THERE, HIS NAME IS BEING BATTLED BACK AND FORTH AND I, LIVID I GUESS IS A BETTER WORD FOR IT."

"I THINK THERE WAS SO MUCH UNTRUTHS BEING SAID THAT THAT FRUSTRATED ME AND THAT I KNEW THAT IF JERRY WERE ALIVE TODAY THAT HE WOULD JUST, NUMBER ONE HE WOULD BE TURNING OVER IN HIS GRAVE TO KNOW THAT A DOCUMENT SUCH AS THIS WOULD BE USED AGAINST A FELLOW GUARDSMAN."

"THAT IS WHAT AGGRAVATED ME SO MUCH, WAS THAT HE CAN NOT BE HERE TO SAY AND YET THEY CAN DRAG HIS NAME ONTO TELEVISION, MAKING BAD ACCUSATIONS ABOUT OUR PRESIDENT AND A MAN THAT HE RESPECTED AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE THOUGHT THIS YOUNG MAN AS A SECOND LIEUTENANT OR FIRST LIEUTENANT WAS AN EXCELLENT AVIATOR, AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO BE IN THE GUARD AND WAS VERY HAPPY TO HAVE HIM BECOME A MEMBER OF THE 111TH F-I-S."

"NUMBER ONE, HE WOULD NOT HAVE TYPED BECAUSE HE DID NOT TYPE. NUMBER TWO, THE WORDING IN THESE DOCUMENTS IS VERY SUSPECT TO ME. I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT, IT LOOKS LIKE SOME THINGS MAY HAVE BEEN PICKED UP OUT OF A DOCUMENT AND THEN OTHER THINGS JUST MADE FICTITIOUSLY TO FILL IN THINGS, TO MAKE THEM FLOW. I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS IS HIS WORDS, MY LATE HUSBAND'S WORDS."

"NOT A TYPIST, DEFINITELY NOT A TYPIST. WE HAD NO COMPUTERS AT HOME BUT HE WASN'T A TYPIST, AND WHAT IS REMARKABLE TO ME IS THAT HE WAS A PERSON WHO DID NOT TAKE OR MAKE COPIOUS NOTES. HE CARRIED EVERYTHING IN HIS MIND AND HE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO MAKE NOTES."

"I AM STILL PRESENTLY LOOKING FOR OTHER DOCUMENTS. I HAVE FOUND SOME THAT SAY THE 147TH ON THEM AND THEY GO BACK TO 1970. I CAN NOT FIND ANY AT THIS MOMENT THAT HAVE ANY 1972 INDICATIONS ON THEM OTHER THAN A, AND I TOLD HER THAT, A FLIGHT SCHEDULE THAT HE HAD JUST SIGNED HIS NAME TO."

"UNFORTUNATELY WHEN WE MOVED I PUT THINGS IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AND I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE EVERYTHING IS AT THIS MOMENT AND I WAS SEARCHING FOR THEM AND I STILL HAVE NOT FOUND ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS. I DO HAVE ALL OF HIS FLIGHT RECORDS THOUGH AND THEY ARE IN MY HANDS."

"HE DISCUSSED WITH ME HOW PROUD HE WAS TO BE ABLE TO GO AND PIN THE WINGS ON YOUNG GEORGE AND TO MEET THEN MR. BUSH, I'VE FORGOTTEN IF HE WAS WITH THE CIA OR WHAT OFFICE HE HELD AT THAT TIME AND BARBARA BUSH."

"HE LEFT THE 147TH, FLEW TO WHEREVER GEORGE GOT HIS WINGS AND JERRY PINNED THEM ON HIM AND HE WAS, CAME HOME JUST, HE TOLD ME ABOUT THAT AND HOW PROUD HE WAS TO HAVE MET THE FAMILY."

"HE WOULD JUST WRITE LITTLE NOTES ON THE BACK OF ANYTHING. UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY AS THE CASE MAY BE, IF HE NEEDED TO JOT SOMETHING DOWN HE WOULD JOT IT ON ANY PAPER THAT HE COULD FIND, ON A CARD, LIKE A CALLING CARD THAT YOU WOULD HAVE, OR JUST LITTLE BITS OF PAPER. HE ALWAYS KNEW WHERE EVERYTHING WAS, AND IF HE NEEDED TO PULL IT OUT OF HIS WALLET ON A LITTLE NOTE OR SOMETHING, BUT HE JUST DIDN'T TAKE MANY NOTES."

-----------------------------------------------------------
Filed By Matt Drudge
Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
(c)DRUDGE REPORT 2004
Not for reproduction without permission of the author

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/pg2/2001/1220/photo/i_rather_hi.jpg


XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU SEPT 09, 2004 22:45:32 ET XXXXX

CBSNEWS LAUNCHES INTERNAL INVESTIGATION AFTER SUSPICIOUS BUSH DOCS AIRED

**Exclusive**

CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush's National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

"The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.

The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being privately "shell-shocked" by the increasingly likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.

Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president's military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York.

MORE



-----------------------------------------------------------
Filed By Matt Drudge
Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
(c)DRUDGE REPORT 2004
Not for reproduction without permission of the author

[Romulus]

More coming out. CBS to launch internal investigation. rofl

http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd.htm





edit: Damn Ekie beat me to it.

[1C2X1]

Learn these facts to properly debate our poor misguided friends before election time !!!

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.....
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.
That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

When someone claims President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following

FDR...
led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From
1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman...
finished that war and started one in Korea...North Korea never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy...
started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. North Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson...
turned Vietnam into a quagmire. >From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...
went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent . Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has ...
liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...
It took less time to take Baghdad than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We found evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq in less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquid****.

it took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts

[Secret Squirrel]

The search button works wonders here; do they have one at freerepublic.com (or is that too complicated for their idiots..err...users rofl )?


When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, remember...

FDR led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us... Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an
average of 112,500 per year.

Japan attacked on Dec, 7 1941, and Germany declared war on the U.S on Dec 11th, and in turn the U.S declared war on Germany.
http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/germwar.html


Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

The communist victory in China, combined with the first Soviet nuclear tests in 1949, resulted in a new US policy of containment in Asia. The policy, called NSC 48/2, called for the containment to be primarily non-military, with economic and military aid given to non-communist regimes in Asia. Kim tried forcefully, with Soviet and Chinese backing, to unify Korea. Truman, who thought that if Hitler wasnt allowed to annex Czechoslovakia then WWII might not have happened, wasnt going to sit idly by and watch this occur. And he did put it through the U.N to secure the right act on behalf of the U.N. in Korea to prevent, as he saw it, a Soviet/Communist annexation.



John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Eisenhower first began steps to prevent a Communist govrenment in the North from consuming the South after the French were defeated. Kennedy sent, at first, American special forces to train South Vietnamese how to fight a counter insurgency war against Communist guerrillas in South Vietnam. And Johnson took the U.S into a "full" war in Vietnam. But above all presidents or administrations, was a policy of fighting global communism and avoiding a "communist domino" affect in Asia.


Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

Three times? I assume you're refering to the article by Mansoor Ijaz?


The Sudanese offered to arrest Bin Laden and extradite him to Saudi Arabia or, barring that, to "baby-sit" him--monitoring all his activities and associates.

But Saudi officials didn't want their home-grown terrorist back where he might plot to overthrow them.

Any word of where any of the documents supposedly used by Ijaz are held? Honestly, does his claims even make sense to anyone? If they could arrest him, and if he proved a potential threat, why didnt they deal with him themselves?


In the two years since terrorists attacked us president Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

Ghanny was justified. Is Al-Qaida crippled or just dispersed to the point where it can operate as small cells because the pressure was reduced for the Iraq invasion? Was it wise to give AQ a breather?


The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

Ok, this paragraph is sheer stupidity. Yea 51 days of major combat but how long will the occupation last? How long before Iraq is able to stand on its own? No one even questioned that the invasion would end quickly. And no one questioned that the invasion would witness fairly light casualities by coalition troops. However, the devil is in the details and everyone knew, or at least should have know, that the death toll was going to rise during the long occupation.


We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquid****. It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Again, moot points which are just presented for their smoke and mirror affect.

[Romulus]

Last 2 posts are way off topic.

[Ekie]

One more:

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/election/s_249796.html

This is really getting ugly:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/9/202100.shtml

Starts to make you wonder, who done it? That is the real story.

[Ekie]

Last 2 posts are way off topic.

No kidding, thought this thread was about forged NG documents.

[Trigger]

CBS is going to get McHosed...I'm lovin' it!
Who wants a Big Mac?
rofl rofl

Seriously though..... What's the penalty for doing something like this. slap on the wrist for CBS?

I don't know but I can think of a few things I'd like to see:
Dan Rather make a sincere, live, televised apology to President Bush on National TV, during a '60 Minutes' broadcast. Hmmmm....followed by a short clip of Dan sitting at the head of a long table in an executive board room and Donald Trump pointing at him, then saying "Yah Fiyahd!" and then another short clip of Dan emptying his desk and walking out of the CBS building with his pants around his ankles, carrying his box of belongings...and then, and then.... p-)

[Romulus]

CBS is going to get McHosed...I'm lovin' it!
Who wants a Big Mac?
rofl rofl

Seriously though..... What's the penalty for doing something like this. slap on the wrist for CBS?

I don't know but I can think of a few things I'd like to see:
Dan Rather make a sincere, live, televised apology to President Bush on National TV, during a '60 Minutes' broadcast. Hmmmm....followed by a short clip of Dan sitting at the head of a long table in an executive board room and Donald Trump pointing at him, then saying "Yah Fiyahd!" and then another short clip of Dan emptying his desk and walking out of the CBS building with his pants around his ankles, carrying his box of belongings...and then, and then.... p-)


pffffffftttt!!! Hahahahaha!!! rofl rofl
Thats classic.


But you know if he does give and on air apology it's going to be some watered down "I'm sorry to the American public for not using my Journalist skills to dicifer the truth" schpeil. I know damn well he wouldn't apologize to Bush or to the late Lt. Col. Killian's family.

[Ekie]

Published 9/10/2004 12:09:06 AM

More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.

The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.

"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."

The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."

The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."

A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.

"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."

The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.

Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries."

ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096

[budanski]

but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.

Thats it, Karl Rove did it with the help of the evil NeoCons. :roll:

[Rilence]

the politics of today...how wonderful :(













*sigh

[Siddar]

Scandal of the Century!!!


Hehe atleast so far. rofl rofl

[James]

WOW!!! It's like a funky disco robot from 1984!!!

[OB Kenobi]

Vietnam is such a HUGE issue now for the democrats. Who served and who didn't. But when Clinton was running they were all "it isn't important what he did 30 years ago. It's important what he will do now".

The democrats are just getting desperate, and looking for anything to attack Bush on.

Sorry SCM, but you can blame those Swift Boat Dip****s for this. Let me refresh your memory...

Kerry is nominated, he decides to go after Bush's leadership abilities, and highlight his own as an alternative

Bush starts going around saying he's a "war president" and Kerry is a pussy.

Kerry reminds Bush of his Vietnam record, and Bush's lack of one.

Bush lets loose the Swift Boat Traitors after he sees he's in trouble with this Vietnam issue. Remember, he pulled the same thing in 2000 with McCain. The money trail leads back to the same people, and the Republican party.

The Swift Boat Liars are discredited, Kerry's record is confirmed, *BUT*, and here's the important part, BUT Bush still hasn't found anyone to corroborate his claims about his service in Alabama. Not a single person can vouch for him. There is a $10,000 reward being offered for anyone who can vouch for Bush and NO ONE HAS!

Now some people have come forward to put the nail in Bush's coffin. They came forward to put this rest to permanently. They could have done this earlier, but they didn't. They came forward because Bush wouldn't keep his mouth shut about Vietnam.

So this is why we're still talking about Vietnam, because Bush decided to go after Kerry the way he went after McCain. Only this time, he messed with the wrong guy.

[Siddar]

Spin that spin as hard and as fast as you can OB because the next few days are going to suck for kerry suporters.

[priccobe]

OB Kenobi,

Bush starts going around saying he's a "war president" and Kerry is a pussy.
Get real, he never said that.

Kerry reminds Bush of his Vietnam record, and Bush's lack of one.
Kerry does not remind himself that he drove a boat while Bush spent YEARS on active duty flying interceptor jets...

Bush lets loose the Swift Boat Traitors after he sees he's in trouble with this Vietnam issue. Remember, he pulled the same thing in 2000 with McCain. The money trail leads back to the same people, and the Republican party.
Kerry conveniently ignores the Moore propaganda movie, F911, moveon.org, ACT, etc... who are all attached to his hip one way or the other, all who've been bashing Bush for months and years...

The Swift Boat Liars are discredited, Kerry's record is confirmed, *BUT*, and here's the important part, BUT Bush still hasn't found anyone to corroborate his claims about his service in Alabama. Not a single person can vouch for him. There is a $10,000 reward being offered for anyone who can vouch for Bush and NO ONE HAS!
Bush has found people to vouch for him. But, unlike Kerry, HUNDREDS of them aren't vouching that he's "UNFIT FOR COMMAND". Every single one of the liars? Come on!

Now some people have come forward to put the nail in Bush's coffin. They came forward to put this rest to permanently. They could have done this earlier, but they didn't. They came forward because Bush wouldn't keep his mouth shut about Vietnam.

They've come forth with forged documents? LOL! And Bush won't shut up about Vietnam? Surely you are kidding!!!

So this is why we're still talking about Vietnam, because Bush decided to go after Kerry the way he went after McCain. Only this time, he messed with the wrong guy.
We're still talking about Vietnam because Kerry won't shut up about it! And the Media thinks they're going to use forged docs to nail the final nail in Bush's coffin! Even the best laid plans...

I agree with you about "he messed with the wrong guy." Kerry is definitely the wrong guy to be CINC. I think even the democrats are realizing this now!!!

[Ekie]

Thats it, Karl Rove did it with the help of the evil NeoCons. :roll:

Well, the question now is who done it. So motives come in to play here. Either they were put into play to hurt Bush or hurt Kerry. I have a hard time believing the forged memos were directed to hurt Bush, the memos are just to over the top stupid.

[Pralix]

I've been suspecting for awhile that the Clinton camp might attempt to torpedo Kerry so Hillary could run in 2008. Perhaps this is the start of that.

[priccobe]

Yep, I think that's the reason for all of this. The Clintons convinced Kerry to take on his ex-campaign staffers who are actually loyal to the Clintons. They're going to attempt to minimize the damage at the elections (losing the presidency, losing 4-5 Senate seats and losing 15-20 House seats) by trying to run a safety campaign, a campaign only designed to preserve the presidency for Hillary in 2008.

If Kerry wins this year, the earliest she'd possible be able to run would be 2012 and she'd be running, most likely, against Edwards in the Democratic primaries.

[Ekie]

So, you don't think it is a coincidence that when the Clinton team joined the Kerry team the issue against Bush was his NG service, and now that issue has been replaced with who it was that forged the documents? That is a very devious conspiracy theory.

[BlackRain]

http://ratherbiased.com/images/cbs-donkey-small.gif
See "BS"

[Ekie]

DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: I know that this story is true. I believe that the witnesses and the documents are authentic. We wouldn’t have gone to air if they would not have been. There isn’t going to be — there’s no — what you’re saying apology?

QUESTION: Apology or any kind of retraction or...

RATHER: Not even discussed, nor should it be. I want to make clear to you, I want to make clear to you if I have not made clear to you, that this story is true, and that more important questions than how we got the story, which is where those who don’t like the story like to put the emphasis, the more important question is what are the answers to the questions raised in the story, which I just gave you earlier.

[BlackRain]

Sorry SCM, but you can blame those Swift Boat Dip****s for this. Let me refresh your memory...



Those are fighting words. Those Swift Boat Vets served their country with honor and are entitled to their opinion regarding John Kery.

The Swift Boats Vets earned the right with their own blood, sweat, and tears, to speak out against what they feel is fraud by Kerry.

To call hundreds of Vietnam Veterans "dip****s" is scandalous and you owe them an apology.

Since I doubt that you would ever recognize your partisan attack was a grievous wrong, all I can say is enjoy your time in hell.

[BlackRain]

The Hoaxing of CBS
Why were they so easily duped?
by Richard Starr
09/10/2004 12:00:00 PM
The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/598wfpet.asp)

A NUMBER OF EXPERTS have now weighed in on the inauthenticity of the documents CBS breathlessly revealed on 60 Minutes earlier this week--documents purportedly typed by the deceased commander of George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard unit in 1972 and 1973, but actually produced on a personal computer using Microsoft Word. I predict--and here I'm going out on a limb 10-feet wide and only an inch off the ground--that it's only a matter of time before CBS admits it was deceived. If there's any honor and professional pride left in the CBS newsroom, they will then expose the party or parties who deceived them.

Why did the premier news show in what was once reputed to be the premier television newsroom fall for such transparent fakes? Anyone old enough to have used a typewriter can look at them for a few minutes and figure out that they weren't typed on a typewriter in the early 1970s. A poster on FreeRepublic.com whose screen name is "Buckhead" was, to my knowledge, the first to do so at midnight Wednesday, shortly after CBS's scoop had aired. "Every single one of these memos to file is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman," this person wrote. "In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts. . . . I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old."

Indeed, some have speculated that a generation gap may
have contributed to the blunder, since only those of us over 40 can remember what it was like to try to type, say, "187th" with the "th" raised above the baseline. You had to turn the platen by hand. (Do you remember what a platen is?) And you couldn't have gotten a smaller "th" without changing the little type ball. Would you have gone to such trouble in typing a memo for your own files?

But the more important reason CBS was duped is that they wanted to believe the story. And the memos neatly fit the anti-Bush narrative that they believed to be true: Namely, Bush was a slacker at the end of his tour of duty and his superiors covered for him because they were under political pressure to do so.

Here's a revealing anecdote reported by Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen in this morning's Washington Post:


A senior CBS official . . . named one of the network's sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of the documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said that a CBS reporter read the documents to Hodges over the phone, and that Hodges replied that "these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

"These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda, but was telling other people," the CBS News official said. "Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."



Obviously, you can't authenticate a document by reading it to someone over the phone. (CBS claims to have had other "experts" examine the documents but has been unwilling to name them.) What this reporting should have suggested to CBS is that whoever forged the documents was someone who knew what CBS's sources would be saying--someone well informed on the anti-Bush scuttlebutt about his National Guard service. The "documents" neatly reflect the reigning anti-Bush theories of the events of 1972 and 1973 and perfectly buttress the anti-Bush narrative because they were produced by someone who was obsessing over that narrative and understood that reporters would need "documentation" to advance the story.

Just as obviously, the journalists who went into overdrive for the National Guard story when the phony memos were released, with few exceptions, want to see Kerry win and Bush lose. This makes them suckers for a good anti-Bush story. It's conventional to call this media bias and be shocked by it. But really it's just human nature. That's why we have to be especially skeptical of the stories we fall in love with. And that's why CBS screwed up.

Richard Starr is a managing editor at The Weekly Standard.

[Seoulstriker]

:lol: What say you, OBD?? I suggest that you edit your original post. rofl

[Trigger]

Sorry SCM, but you can blame those Swift Boat Dip****s for this. Let me refresh your memory...



Those are fighting words. Those Swift Boat Vets served their country with honor and are entitled to their opinion regarding John Kery.

The Swift Boats Vets earned the right with their own blood, sweat, and tears, to speak out against what they feel is fraud by Kerry.

To call hundreds of Vietnam Veterans "dip****s" is scandalous and you owe them an apology.

Since I doubt that you would ever recognize your partisan attack was a grievous wrong, all I can say is enjoy your time in hell.
Yeah Kenoobi, take it back or I'll summon Huck Mucus to take you to task for blaspheming those warriors.

[Ekie]

McClellan says:


"an orchestrated effort by Democrats and the Kerry campaign to tear down the president."

McAuliffe say:


"I can unequivocally say that no one involved here at the Democratic National Committee had anything at all to do with any of those documents. If I were an aspiring young journalist, I think I would ask Karl Rove that question," Mr. McAuliffe said.

[Romulus]

People who don't think this is important better listen up.

Forging government documents holds a jail term up to 5 years plus a huge fine. When the news medias come out with stuff like this and "claim" the documents are offical and should be aired to the public as "truth" then there are some serious issues that need to be addressed at these stations.


I find it funny how alot of the Democrats thought that this was the golden ticket to victory after CBS aired the spot the other night. Now that the documents are being considered forgeries by the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and numerous other experts, the tables have turned and the Democratic spin doctors are now avoiding direct questions pertaining to the memos and basically saying " Yeah, Well, so what? , the question is john kerry served his country in vietnam and bush wussed out and joined the
Guard".


And Ekie is right. They are hoping for the "Weekend amnesia" at cbs and the dnc. Sorry folks you just can't come out and claim that this is fact then back off it when you get caught. Dan Rather you dope.

[usa320]

HE SPENT THE FIRST MONTHS OF HIS PRESIDENCY ON VACATION FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!!!!!


Just because hes in Texas and not washington doesnt mean hes on vacation. He never truly has a vacation from work.

[priccobe]

New documents released by CBS and Dan Rather!
http://www.rightwingnews.com/graphics/killian.jpg

;)

[Geezah]

haha, every time I here new stuff about how pitiful George Bush was with regard to his national guard service I think back to what he said a long time ago when questions about his service first came up: "Im proud of my service to my country"

Well George, by the time I was 20 years old I had given more service to my country's military then you had during all your time in the National Guard. As I learned in ROTC, part of service is getting up each morning at 5:00 AM, getting dressed, and SHOWING UP!!!!!!!!!! I volunteered for Ranger ROTC program to challenge myself. You tried everything in your power to shirk your duties and get out of service.........you really are a joke and a disgrace and its no wonder the rest of the world hates us with you at the helm................

For christs sake, I dont think I have even witnessed a more pitiful example of a serving soldier than George Bush. EVERYONE in my ROTC class, even the fat asses and the guys who got drunk whenever they could, showed up!!!! But you!! You!!! You cant even follow simple orders to just be where you are supossed to be at the time you are supposed to be there!!!!!!! If you were anybody else but an over priviledge idiot son of the President, you would have been booted out of there faster than you could say "Errr....Im a lookin fer some Armadillas to shoot with this here rifle"

George, its clear you just wanted to work on your political future while you were in the NG. You were not serving your country, you were only serving yourself!!! You make me sick!!! You are the worlds biggest lazy ass, the worlds biggest underaciever, and the worlds greatest idiot. What makes it all so hard to take is that despite all your failings and faults you still managed to become president of the United States...........I fear for the future of my great country..............

You know that info may be forged right,


News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training. That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years. Not two years of weekends. Two years. After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements."



And this is interesting. "At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation. According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis). Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970." Remember, the minimum requirement is 50. "He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?" Not being reported. Did you know that?



"That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush 'deserted' (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went 'AWOL' (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee). Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971. 'In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,' Campenni says. 'The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.'



"So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement. Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently. In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year. Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service. During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot. A 1970 evaluation said Bush 'clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot' and was 'a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.'" He got a bunch of other citations.

*****************************

Don’t trust the Liberal Media ......

[Trigger]

rofl

[Durandal]

This is either the saddest thing yet or the most hilarious.

I am still trying to decide.

Whatever happened to journalistic integrity? Dan Rather needs to be fired after this. If he didn't lose his integrity during the Sadam interview he certainly should here.

And it was something SOOO simple to follow up on.

:( :D

[OB Kenobi]

Turns out that the documents are real. Everybody apologize to Dan Rather...

Authenticity backed on Bush documents
By Francie Latour and Michael Rezendes
Boston Globe

After CBS News on Wednesday trumpeted newly discovered documents that referred to a 1973 effort to ''sugar coat" President Bush's service record in the Texas Air National Guard, the network almost immediately faced charges that the documents were forgeries, with typography that was not available on typewriters used at that time.

But specialists interviewed by the Globe and some other news organizations say the specialized characters used in the documents, and the type format, were common to electric typewriters in wide use in the early 1970s, when Bush was a first lieutenant.

Philip D. Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times published Thursday, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe yesterday that after further study, he now believes the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, ''th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing which varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was alloted the same space.

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised ''th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record that the White House made public earlier this year.

Meanwhile, ''CBS Evening News" last night explained how it sought to authenticate the documents, focusing primarily on its examiner's conclusion that two of the records were signed by Bush's guard commander, Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian. CBS also said it had other sources -- among Killian's friends and colleagues -- who verified that the content of the documents reflected Killian's views at the time.

One of them, Robert Strong, a Guard colleague, said the language in the documents was ''compatible with the way business was done at that time. They are compatible with the man I remember Jerry Killian being."

But William Flynn, a Phoenix document examiner cited in a Washington Post report Thursday, said he had not changed his mind because he does not believe that the proportional spacing between characters, and between lines, in the documents obtained by CBS was possible on typewriters used by the military at the time.

Flynn told the Globe he believes it is ''highly unlikely" that the documents CBS has obtained could have been produced in 1972 or 1973.

Flynn said his doubts were also based on his belief that the curved apostrophe was not available on electric typewriters at the time, although documents from the period reviewed by the Globe show it was. He acknowledged that the quality of the copies of the documents he examined was poor.

Also suspicious is Killian's son, Gary D. Killian of Houston. ''I still contend that my father would not have written these documents. I know the type of man he was -- if he felt he was being pressured, he'd confront it head on, not write a memo about it," Killian, 51, said in a telephone interview. His father died in 1984.

The controversy over the authenticity of the documents has all but blocked out discussion of their content. In the first document, dated May 4, 1972, Killian appears to order Bush to show up for a flight physical ''no later than 14 May, 1972." On Aug. 1, 1972, a document bearing Killian's signature notes that he had suspended Bush from flight status ''due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination (flight) as ordered."

At the time of the memo, Bush had not flown since April. He moved to Alabama in May of that year to work on a political campaign, and had not attended drills for more than four months.

In a ''memo to file" dated May 1972, Killian appeared to write that he had counseled Bush about his commitment to the Guard. And the final memo obtained by CBS, dated Aug. 18, 1973, said that the group's commanding general had sought to have Killian ''sugar coat" Bush's annual fitness report -- even though Bush had apparently not trained at his Houston airbase during the year in question.

But reporters and political figures focused much of their attention yesterday on the suggestion that CBS might have been the victim of a hoax.

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had dismissed the Bush documents in an interview with The New York Times because the letters and formatting of the Bush memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Bouffard yesterday said that he had not considered one of the machines whose type is not logged in his database: the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the Bush memos to Selectric Composer samples obtained from Interpol, the international police agency, Bouffard said his view shifted.

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Bouffard yesterday provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 -- three years before the dates of the CBS memos -- the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

As for the raised ''th" that appears in the Bush memos -- to refer, for example, to units such as the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron -- Bouffard said that custom characters on the Composer's metal typehead ball were available in the 1970s, and that the military could have ordered such custom balls from IBM.

''You can't just say that this is definitively the mark of a computer," Bouffard said.

Meanwhile, the political fray over the documents continued unabated. At a news conference yesterday, Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, again accused Bush of lying about his record.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan defended the president's service record, but offered no view on whether the CBS documents are authentic.

Globe reporters Stephen Kurkjian and Walter V. Robinson contributed to this report.

[Durandal]

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had dismissed the Bush documents in an interview with The New York Times because the letters and formatting of the Bush memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Bouffard yesterday said that he had not considered one of the machines whose type is not logged in his database: the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the Bush memos to Selectric Composer samples obtained from Interpol, the international police agency, Bouffard said his view shifted.

i.e. - The DNC got to me, paid me lots of money to say this.

[BlackRain]

Turns out that the documents are real. Everybody apologize to Dan Rather...

Authenticity backed on Bush documents
By Francie Latour and Michael Rezendes
Boston Globe




The National media including NBC states the documents were forged. Are you seriously going to stick with this obvious lie?

Just because you want these forgeries to be true, does not make them true. Sad little man.

Example headlines from today:

1) Questions mount on Guard memos' authenticity -Washington Times (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040910-104821-5968r.htm)

2) Bush military documents may be forgeries - experts: Democrats stay on attack - National Post, Canada (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=abdc8e46-031d-48ec-953c-3471dadc3c46)

3) CBS falls for Kerry campaign's fake memo - Chicago Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn12.html)

4) Amid Skepticism, CBS Sticks to Bush Guard Story (New info--CBS 'expert' looked at only 1 doc) - Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guard11sep11,1,6728631.story?coll=la-headlines-nation)

[budanski]

Turns out that the documents are real. Everybody apologize to Dan Rather...

Authenticity backed on Bush documents
By Francie Latour and Michael Rezendes
Boston Globe



Dr. Bouffard Speaks About Boston Globe!
InDC (http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000859.php)

I just interviewed Dr. Bouffard again, and he's angry that the Globe has misrepresented him. He's been getting hate mail and nasty phone calls since last night's story was posted, and he wants me to correct the record. He did not change his mind, and he and his colleagues are becoming more certain that these documents are forgeries.

Instead of providing my analysis of our conversation, I'm largely going to transcribe his unaltered quotes (please note that he's a rather colorful, engaging older gentleman):

(I'm dynamically updating as I transcribe quotes, so keep refreshing)

"What the Boston Globe did now sort of pisses me off, because now I have people calling me and e-mailing me, and calling me names, saying that I changed my mind. I did not change my mind at all!"

"I would appreciate it if you could do whatever it takes to clear this up, through your internet site, or whatever."

"All I'd done is say, 'Hey I want to look into it.' Please correct that damn impression!"

"What I said to them was, I got new information about possible Selectric fonts and (Air Force) documents that indicated a Selectric machine could have been available, and I needed to do more analysis and consider it."

"But the more information we get and the more my colleagues look at this, we're more convinced that there are significant differences between the type of the (IBM) Composer that was available and the questionable document."

"The (new Selectric) typefaces sent to me invalidated the theory about the foot on the four (originally reported to INDC), but after looking at this more, there are still many more things that say this is bogus."

"... there are so many things that are not right; 's crossings,' 'downstrokes' ..."

"More things were looked into; more things about IBM options. Even if you bought special (superscripting) keys, it's not right. There are all kinds of things that say that this is not a typewriter."

"Any form of kerning may be critical (he hasn't rendered a definitive verdict if there is a form of kerning yet). If there is any type of kerning, it obviously isn't a typewriter or it's definitely a typeset document."

On the Globe and others:

"You talk to someone on the phone and it comes out different than you said!"

On the source of the 1969 Air Force Supply Memo:

Dr. Bouffard received an e-mail from the address of Roy Huber, a noted retired forensic analyst in Ottawa, but a response indicated that it was Lynn Huber.

"I presumed that it was a relative of Roy. The document said that there are fonts from the IBM that don't have the foot on the '4.'"

The e-mail also contained an attachment to possible Selectric fonts that indicated that the "4" had a foot, and the Air Force memo that indicated that the military purchase of such a machine was a possibility.

But since having had more time to analyze the fonts of the Selectric:

"We've looked into more and more IBM options and ... there are all kinds of things that say this isn't a typewriter."

UPDATE: These are all the transcribable quotes that Dr. Bouffard gave me at this time. More as the story develops.

I provide his words, you decide ... but I have come to the definitive conclusion that the Boston Globe misrepresented their main source's testimony to stunningly misleading effect.

Whether or not the docs are even forgeries or not is almost secondary in the media narrative at this point. The fact is, Dr. Bouffard was used as the main source to write the following headline in the Boston Globe:

Authenticity backed on Bush documents

Square that headline with the quotes from their source that are listed above.


UPDATE: NOTE TO COMMENTERS - Feel free to parse the details of whether the document is fake or not, if that's your passion, but I think that many of you that bother are missing the real point here. At this point, with this angle, the veracity of the document is almost secondary to the Boston Globe's willingness to mislead you into believing that the case is closed.


UPDATE: Also, to be perfectly clear - Dr. Bouffard is not indicating yet that the the docs are definitely fake, he's just clueing me in on a preponderance of indications that it may be likely. Expert analysis is still underway.

Just want to make sure that I don't present a mischaracterization that is the opposite of the Globe's presentation.

[Syncmaster]

I am just curious, seems like everybody went so far in this election thing that they believe now that ONE (1) guy really runs the US (for some even the whole world) by himself...

Just elect one, don't start a a civil war because of that (just kidding) and start to believe in good, it seems everybody forgot what that is. I blame the f... media for that! :bash:

[Romulus]

Turns out that the documents are real. Everybody apologize to Dan Rather...

Authenticity backed on Bush documents
By Francie Latour and Michael Rezendes
Boston Globe



Dr. Bouffard Speaks About Boston Globe!
InDC (http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000859.php)

I just interviewed Dr. Bouffard again, and he's angry that the Globe has misrepresented him. He's been getting hate mail and nasty phone calls since last night's story was posted, and he wants me to correct the record. He did not change his mind, and he and his colleagues are becoming more certain that these documents are forgeries.

Instead of providing my analysis of our conversation, I'm largely going to transcribe his unaltered quotes (please note that he's a rather colorful, engaging older gentleman):

(I'm dynamically updating as I transcribe quotes, so keep refreshing)

"What the Boston Globe did now sort of pisses me off, because now I have people calling me and e-mailing me, and calling me names, saying that I changed my mind. I did not change my mind at all!"

"I would appreciate it if you could do whatever it takes to clear this up, through your internet site, or whatever."

"All I'd done is say, 'Hey I want to look into it.' Please correct that damn impression!"

"What I said to them was, I got new information about possible Selectric fonts and (Air Force) documents that indicated a Selectric machine could have been available, and I needed to do more analysis and consider it."

"But the more information we get and the more my colleagues look at this, we're more convinced that there are significant differences between the type of the (IBM) Composer that was available and the questionable document."

"The (new Selectric) typefaces sent to me invalidated the theory about the foot on the four (originally reported to INDC), but after looking at this more, there are still many more things that say this is bogus."

"... there are so many things that are not right; 's crossings,' 'downstrokes' ..."

"More things were looked into; more things about IBM options. Even if you bought special (superscripting) keys, it's not right. There are all kinds of things that say that this is not a typewriter."

"Any form of kerning may be critical (he hasn't rendered a definitive verdict if there is a form of kerning yet). If there is any type of kerning, it obviously isn't a typewriter or it's definitely a typeset document."

On the Globe and others:

"You talk to someone on the phone and it comes out different than you said!"

On the source of the 1969 Air Force Supply Memo:

Dr. Bouffard received an e-mail from the address of Roy Huber, a noted retired forensic analyst in Ottawa, but a response indicated that it was Lynn Huber.

"I presumed that it was a relative of Roy. The document said that there are fonts from the IBM that don't have the foot on the '4.'"

The e-mail also contained an attachment to possible Selectric fonts that indicated that the "4" had a foot, and the Air Force memo that indicated that the military purchase of such a machine was a possibility.

But since having had more time to analyze the fonts of the Selectric:

"We've looked into more and more IBM options and ... there are all kinds of things that say this isn't a typewriter."

UPDATE: These are all the transcribable quotes that Dr. Bouffard gave me at this time. More as the story develops.

I provide his words, you decide ... but I have come to the definitive conclusion that the Boston Globe misrepresented their main source's testimony to stunningly misleading effect.

Whether or not the docs are even forgeries or not is almost secondary in the media narrative at this point. The fact is, Dr. Bouffard was used as the main source to write the following headline in the Boston Globe:

Authenticity backed on Bush documents

Square that headline with the quotes from their source that are listed above.


UPDATE: NOTE TO COMMENTERS - Feel free to parse the details of whether the document is fake or not, if that's your passion, but I think that many of you that bother are missing the real point here. At this point, with this angle, the veracity of the document is almost secondary to the Boston Globe's willingness to mislead you into believing that the case is closed.


UPDATE: Also, to be perfectly clear - Dr. Bouffard is not indicating yet that the the docs are definitely fake, he's just clueing me in on a preponderance of indications that it may be likely. Expert analysis is still underway.

Just want to make sure that I don't present a mischaracterization that is the opposite of the Globe's presentation.


Buwhahahahahahahaha!!!! rofl rofl


Now what say you OB? rofl rofl

[Siddar]

This story is like watching Lies being thrown into a blender.

[Ekie]

Hey OB Kenobi, before you drink the Kool-Aid that Dan Rather has served up, check into it yourself. Are you at all familiar with typewriters and Word? If not this might be tough for you to get, I will just trust that you are somewhat familiar with such things. I have used both, showing my age here, ahem, but I can not take for granted that you have. Not asking to do anything I have not done myself, only took me a few minutes to do this. First print this document Mr Rather was nice enough to post on the web (I picked this one because it requires less typing):

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf

Now, with this document in front of you, type it out on Word in the default setting. That is, Times New Roman at 12pt. Then hit print. You will get this:

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug181973memo-word.gif

Notice that they are the same thing, other then that Dan's is a shrunk down photo copy. If he ever requires the original, you have it. Might mail it of to him, LOL.

[Ballistic]

Turns out that the documents are real. Everybody apologize to Dan Rather...

Authenticity backed on Bush documents
By Francie Latour and Michael Rezendes
Boston Globe



Dr. Bouffard Speaks About Boston Globe!
InDC (http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000859.php)

I just interviewed Dr. Bouffard again, and he's angry that the Globe has misrepresented him. He's been getting hate mail and nasty phone calls since last night's story was posted, and he wants me to correct the record. He did not change his mind, and he and his colleagues are becoming more certain that these documents are forgeries.

Instead of providing my analysis of our conversation, I'm largely going to transcribe his unaltered quotes (please note that he's a rather colorful, engaging older gentleman):

(I'm dynamically updating as I transcribe quotes, so keep refreshing)

"What the Boston Globe did now sort of pisses me off, because now I have people calling me and e-mailing me, and calling me names, saying that I changed my mind. I did not change my mind at all!"

"I would appreciate it if you could do whatever it takes to clear this up, through your internet site, or whatever."

"All I'd done is say, 'Hey I want to look into it.' Please correct that damn impression!"

"What I said to them was, I got new information about possible Selectric fonts and (Air Force) documents that indicated a Selectric machine could have been available, and I needed to do more analysis and consider it."

"But the more information we get and the more my colleagues look at this, we're more convinced that there are significant differences between the type of the (IBM) Composer that was available and the questionable document."

"The (new Selectric) typefaces sent to me invalidated the theory about the foot on the four (originally reported to INDC), but after looking at this more, there are still many more things that say this is bogus."

"... there are so many things that are not right; 's crossings,' 'downstrokes' ..."

"More things were looked into; more things about IBM options. Even if you bought special (superscripting) keys, it's not right. There are all kinds of things that say that this is not a typewriter."

"Any form of kerning may be critical (he hasn't rendered a definitive verdict if there is a form of kerning yet). If there is any type of kerning, it obviously isn't a typewriter or it's definitely a typeset document."

On the Globe and others:

"You talk to someone on the phone and it comes out different than you said!"

On the source of the 1969 Air Force Supply Memo:

Dr. Bouffard received an e-mail from the address of Roy Huber, a noted retired forensic analyst in Ottawa, but a response indicated that it was Lynn Huber.

"I presumed that it was a relative of Roy. The document said that there are fonts from the IBM that don't have the foot on the '4.'"

The e-mail also contained an attachment to possible Selectric fonts that indicated that the "4" had a foot, and the Air Force memo that indicated that the military purchase of such a machine was a possibility.

But since having had more time to analyze the fonts of the Selectric:

"We've looked into more and more IBM options and ... there are all kinds of things that say this isn't a typewriter."

UPDATE: These are all the transcribable quotes that Dr. Bouffard gave me at this time. More as the story develops.

I provide his words, you decide ... but I have come to the definitive conclusion that the Boston Globe misrepresented their main source's testimony to stunningly misleading effect.

Whether or not the docs are even forgeries or not is almost secondary in the media narrative at this point. The fact is, Dr. Bouffard was used as the main source to write the following headline in the Boston Globe:

Authenticity backed on Bush documents

Square that headline with the quotes from their source that are listed above.


UPDATE: NOTE TO COMMENTERS - Feel free to parse the details of whether the document is fake or not, if that's your passion, but I think that many of you that bother are missing the real point here. At this point, with this angle, the veracity of the document is almost secondary to the Boston Globe's willingness to mislead you into believing that the case is closed.


UPDATE: Also, to be perfectly clear - Dr. Bouffard is not indicating yet that the the docs are definitely fake, he's just clueing me in on a preponderance of indications that it may be likely. Expert analysis is still underway.

Just want to make sure that I don't present a mischaracterization that is the opposite of the Globe's presentation.


Buwhahahahahahahaha!!!! rofl rofl


Now what say you OB? rofl rofl

rofl Owned !!!!!!!!! :D

[priccobe]

I sent this email to CBS earlier today. Wishful thinking I know but I would LOVE to see Dan Rather apologizing in a primetime newscast!


I'm contacting you to let you know that I'm finished watching CBS News and any of your related news programs.

The reason for this is very simple. Your use of obvious forgeries during your hit piece on President Bush's National Guard service was shameful and despicable. The fact that you claim the story and documents were reviewed for six weeks is completely ridiculous. It took less than 48 hours for people on the Internet to find gaping holes in the validity of these documents. Added to that, the hit piece had Ben Barnes, a large individual Kerry contributor, as your back-up to the falsified story.

The only way to remedy this situation is the following to happen in the next few days:

1. Dan Rather must admit that he used forged documents in a prime time newscast.

2. He must reveal his source of the documents.

3. He must apologize to the viewers of CBS News for misleading them and admit that he used these documents and Barnes in an attempt to change voter's minds about the President.

4. He must apologize to President Bush for this personal attack.

5. The director of CBS News must also apologize, on air, for Dan Rather's behavior and the behavior of the crew behind the hit piece.

Additionally you may want to begin outsourcing some of your document reviewers, fact-checkers and story analysts to proven entities on the Internet that often have to only Google a name to find a mistake.

I will be contacting any businesses that have advertisements during your news shows asking them to withdraw their advertisements. Until you take steps to remedy your bias and apologize, I and my family will not be purchasing any of their products and will also email friends with requests to not buy from these businesses.

One last thing, it would only be fair, since you've spent so much time on negative pieces on Bush's Vietnam era service, to also run a story on the Swift Boat Vets or the creators of "Stolen Honor."

[priccobe]

Also, this is on the DrudgeReport right now:


DNC TO LAUNCH FRESH ATTACK ON BUSH GUARD DUTY: WILL RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT 1978 CAMPAIGN LIT

**Exclusive**

Faster than a CBS eye can blink, dogged Dems are set to take to the airwaves anew hoping to keep questions about President Bush's National Guard duty in play, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Candidate Kerry apparently has rejected former President Clinton's advice not to get further locked in a 2004 Vietnam quagmire.

"George W. Bush's campaign literature claimed that he 'served in the U.S. Air Force.' The only problem? He didn't," slams a new DNC press release set for distribution.

Dems will attempt to increase the heat on Bush ahead of his planned Tuesday address before The National Guard Association gathering in Las Vegas.

In 2000, Bush opened his National Guard Association speech: "General, I am reporting for duty."

MORE

Kerry plans to speak to the group on Thursday, but he personally hold back questioning Bush's service, sources explain.

The coordinated nationwide effort this week by the DNC has been code-named "Operation Fortunate Son."

"George Bush has a clear pattern of lying about his military service," DNC Communications Director Jano Cabrera blasts in the new release. "From 1978 to the present day, George Bush has refused to tell voters the truth about his service. It's time for the President to come clean."

"Flyers distributed to Texas voters during Bush's failed Congressional race say 'he served in the U.S. Air Force and the Texas Air National Guard.' But according to Air Force officials, Air National Guardsmen are not counted as members of the active-duty Air Force."

[Romulus]

Also, this is on the DrudgeReport right now:


DNC TO LAUNCH FRESH ATTACK ON BUSH GUARD DUTY: WILL RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT 1978 CAMPAIGN LIT

**Exclusive**

Faster than a CBS eye can blink, dogged Dems are set to take to the airwaves anew hoping to keep questions about President Bush's National Guard duty in play, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Candidate Kerry apparently has rejected former President Clinton's advice not to get further locked in a 2004 Vietnam quagmire.

"George W. Bush's campaign literature claimed that he 'served in the U.S. Air Force.' The only problem? He didn't," slams a new DNC press release set for distribution.

Dems will attempt to increase the heat on Bush ahead of his planned Tuesday address before The National Guard Association gathering in Las Vegas.

In 2000, Bush opened his National Guard Association speech: "General, I am reporting for duty."

MORE

Kerry plans to speak to the group on Thursday, but he personally hold back questioning Bush's service, sources explain.

The coordinated nationwide effort this week by the DNC has been code-named "Operation Fortunate Son."

"George Bush has a clear pattern of lying about his military service," DNC Communications Director Jano Cabrera blasts in the new release. "From 1978 to the present day, George Bush has refused to tell voters the truth about his service. It's time for the President to come clean."

"Flyers distributed to Texas voters during Bush's failed Congressional race say 'he served in the U.S. Air Force and the Texas Air National Guard.' But according to Air Force officials, Air National Guardsmen are not counted as members of the active-duty Air Force."


It went from funny to actually sad to see my old party self-destructing.

[priccobe]

Did you see this part from the DNC's new attacks? The new attack claims that Bush LIED about serving in the Air Force.


"Flyers distributed to Texas voters during Bush's failed Congressional race say 'he served in the U.S. Air Force and the Texas Air National Guard.' But according to Air Force officials, Air National Guardsmen are not counted as members of the active-duty Air Force."

[Ekie]

EXCLUSIVE // Mon Sep 20 2004 11:58:02 ET
STATEMENT FROM DAN RATHER:

Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a 60 MINUTES WEDNESDAY story about President Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question—and their source—vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome.

Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where—if I knew then what I know now—I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question.

But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

Please know that nothing is more important to us than people's trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully.

[Geezah]

Turns out that the documents are real. Everybody apologize to Dan Rather...

Authenticity backed on Bush documents
By Francie Latour and Michael Rezendes
Boston Globe




The National media including NBC states the documents were forged. Are you seriously going to stick with this obvious lie?

Just because you want these forgeries to be true, does not make them true. Sad little man.

Example headlines from today:

1) Questions mount on Guard memos' authenticity -Washington Times (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040910-104821-5968r.htm)

2) Bush military documents may be forgeries - experts: Democrats stay on attack - National Post, Canada (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=abdc8e46-031d-48ec-953c-3471dadc3c46)

3) CBS falls for Kerry campaign's fake memo - Chicago Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn12.html)

4) Amid Skepticism, CBS Sticks to Bush Guard Story (New info--CBS 'expert' looked at only 1 doc) - Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guard11sep11,1,6728631.story?coll=la-headlines-nation)

He's trying the Jedi mind trick!

[Trigger]

EXCLUSIVE // Mon Sep 20 2004 11:58:02 ET
STATEMENT FROM DAN RATHER:

Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a 60 MINUTES WEDNESDAY story about President Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question—and their source—vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome.

Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where—if I knew then what I know now—I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question.

But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

Please know that nothing is more important to us than people's trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully.
How lame. 'If I knew then...'
Yes Dan, if you stick your **** in a blender it's gonna f'ing hurt. A big boy like you ought to know better.

[Durandal]

How lame. 'If I knew then...'
Yes Dan, if you stick your **** in a blender it's gonna f'ing hurt. A big boy like you ought to know better.

What I find more insulting is:


It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

My ass. They did it for one of two reasons both of which make their claims to be a unbiased news agency fraudulent...

A) They in fact DID do it to add disfavor to the Bush campaign...

or (and I believe this to the more likely case)

B) They wanted to boost rating and pushed a "breaking news" story through without ANY research (because there wasn't any). They used OBVIOUSLY biased sources and ignored opinions an advice from people they should have listened to. Thus proving that it is in fact not about "investigative reporting" but all about the "Benjamin's"...cash.

The insulting part is that he thinks we are somehow going to stomach his half-ass apology.

Sorry don't cut it Danny Boy.

[101ABN327]

Well I think this thread is a moot point now. CBS has admitted the memos were lies and now to find out who originated them. Does anyone care to put money on the DNC or the Kerry campaign? Dan Blather has dishonored himself and the entiore network, but has sucessfully reinforced the fact that the mainstream news media are all leftists.

[Romulus]

Well I think this thread is a moot point now. CBS has admitted the memos were lies and now to find out who originated them. Does anyone care to put money on the DNC or the Kerry campaign? Dan Blather has dishonored himself and the entiore network, but has sucessfully reinforced the fact that the mainstream news media are all leftists.

Someone has some criminal charges headed their way. Forging government documents can bring a 5 year jail term plus a few thousand clams.

Someone is in BIG trouble!


ps. OB kenobi how you like us NOW!!!!!!!! rofl

[OB Kenobi]

Well I think this thread is a moot point now. CBS has admitted the memos were lies and now to find out who originated them. Does anyone care to put money on the DNC or the Kerry campaign? Dan Blather has dishonored himself and the entiore network, but has sucessfully reinforced the fact that the mainstream news media are all leftists.

Someone has some criminal charges headed their way. Forging government documents can bring a 5 year jail term plus a few thousand clams.

Someone is in BIG trouble!


ps. OB kenobi how you like us NOW!!!!!!!! rofl

Hey, throw the guy who forged those documents in jail, he deserves it. But while you're at it, send Bush to a firing squad for being AWOL in wartime. He couldn't even handle that cushy NG job his father got him. You "patriots" who support Bush for this are spitting on every man who fought in Vietnam, and the graves of all who died there.

Romulus, can you hear me NOW???????

What Is Bush Hiding?
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, September 21, 2004; Page A21
Washington Post

It is to be welcomed that President Bush wants to clear up questions about his National Guard service. He wants more details out there, and good for him. This story should be laid to rest, and the one person who can do it is named George W. Bush.

Up to now, Bush has been interested in a rather narrow aspect of the story. He wanted Dan Rather and CBS News to come clean about whether they used fake documents in reporting on the president's Guard service back in the 1970s.

"There are a lot of questions and they need to be answered," Bush told the Union Leader in Manchester, N.H., last week. "I think what needs to happen is people need to take a look at the documents, how they were created, and let the truth come out."

I couldn't agree more. And apparently CBS came to the same view. CBS messed up, and yesterday, Rather fessed up. He said the network could no longer stand behind the documents. There will be much hand-wringing about the media in the coming days, and properly so.

But what's good for Dan Rather, who is not running for president, ought to be good for George Bush, who is. "There are a lot of questions and they need to be answered." Surely that presidential sentiment applies as much to Bush's Guard service as to Rather's journalistic methods.

The New York Times put the relevant questions on the table yesterday in a lengthy review of Bush's life in 1972, "the year George W. Bush dropped off the radar screen," as the Times called it. The issues about Bush's National Guard service, the Times wrote, include "why he failed to take his pilot's physical and whether he fulfilled his commitment to the guard."

Oh, I can hear the groaning: "But why are we still talking about Vietnam?" A fair question that has several compelling answers.

First, except for John McCain, Republicans were conspicuously happy to have a front group spread untruths about John Kerry's Vietnam service in August and watch as the misleading claims were amplified by the supposedly liberal media. The Vietnam era was relevant as long as it could be used to raise character questions about Kerry. But as soon as the questioning turned to Bush's character, we were supposed to call the whole thing off. Why? Because the media were supposed to question Kerry's character but not Bush's.

And, please, none of this nonsense about how Kerry "opened the door" to the assault on his Vietnam years by highlighting his service at the Democratic National Convention. Nothing any candidate does should ever be seen as "opening the door" to lies about his past. Besides, Vietnam veterans with Republican ties were going after Kerry's war record long before the Democratic convention.

But, most important, there is only one reason the story about Bush's choices during the Vietnam years persists. It's because the president won't give detailed answers to the direct questions posed by the Times story and other responsible media organizations, including the Boston Globe. Their questions never depended on the discredited CBS documents.

Bush could end this story now so we could get to the real issues of 2004. It would require only that the president take an hour or so with reporters to make clear what he did and did not do in the Guard. He may have had good reasons for ducking that physical exam. Surely he can explain the gaps in his service and tell us honestly whether any pull was used to get him into the Guard.

But a guy who is supposed to be so frank and direct turns remarkably Clintonian where the National Guard issue is concerned. "I met my requirements and was honorably discharged" is Bush's stock answer, which does old Bill proud. And am I the only person exasperated by a double standard that treated everything Bill Clinton ever did in his life ("I didn't inhale") as fair game but now insists that we shouldn't sully ourselves with any inconvenient questions about Bush's past?

I'm as weary as you are that our politics veer away from what matters -- Iraq, terrorism, health care, jobs -- and get sidetracked into personal issues manufactured by political consultants and ideological zealots. But the Bush campaign has made clear it wants this election to focus on character and leadership. If character is the issue, the president's life, past and present, matters just as much as John Kerry's.

Dan Rather has answered his critics. Now it is Bush's turn.

http://www.whatididinthewar.com/buttons/awol.jpghttp://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20photo%20negatives/2003%20news%20phot%20negatives/June%2003/g30.jpghttp://artmine.tripod.com/cafe/daddy150.jpg

[Romulus]

Bush has released his records bub.

How bout a peek at Kerrys?

Whats that? He refuses to allow the release of his military records??

Better act fast OB your titanic is sinking fast.

[Hot Lips]

I thought there were still required reports missing from his files? That they only released "what they could find".

[Durandal]

You are correct Hot Lips...there are portions that Bush has not released.

Both are playing the "I have a secret game."