2 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Iraq Attacks

[Seraphim]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030827/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_soldiers_killed&cid=540&ncid=716


BAGHDAD, Iraq - Two U.S. soldiers were killed Wednesday in separate attacks in Baghdad and a city just to the west, the military reported.


In one incident, a soldier was killed and three were wounded in a roadside bombing in Fallujah, 30 miles west of Baghdad. The military said the attack occurred at 7:10 a.m. The dead soldier was from the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, the military said. It provided no other details.


The second death came in an attack on a military convoy at 7:45 a.m. in Baghdad. The dead soldier was of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade. No other details were given.


The deaths brought to 281 the number of soldiers killed since the war began on March 20. Since President Bush (news - web sites) declared major combat over on May 1, 143 American soldiers have died.


Meanwhile, international relief agency Oxfam said that it had pulled its foreign staff out of Iraq (news - web sites) because the security level in the country had deteriorated to the point where the group could no longer operate.


"The risk level was becoming unacceptable for us, making it impossible for our programs to operate," Simon Springett, Oxfam's program manager for Iraq told The Associated Press from Amman, Jordan.


Oxfam began withdrawing its 15 international staff members on Monday and completed the move within 48 hours, Springett said. The London-based aid group had been working on water and sanitation projects with UNICEF (news - web sites) in Iraq.


Last weeks bombing of the U.N.'s Baghdad headquarters, which killed 23 and injured more than 100, was only one of the factors contributing to Oxfam's decision, Springett said.


"We felt international organizations were becoming increasingly targeted," he said.


"I think there's been a blurring of humanitarian and military operations in Iraq," Springett said. "It's setting a very dangerous precedent."


He said he had spoken to several other aid groups that were also reviewing their security in Iraq.






In other news

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061979998.iraq_xms107.jpg

A U.S. Military Police soldier, left, looks on as Sgt. Shawna L. Edmondson, one of the four U.S soldiers accused of abusing prisoners of war, takes a small break during a military hearing, at an army camp near Umm Qasr, some 675 kilometers from Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday Aug. 27, 2003. The four, all army reservists with the 320 military police battalion, are charged with punching and kicking several Iraqis, while escorting a busload to a P.O.W. processing center near Umm Qasr in May. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

Must have been the wrong time of the month rofl

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061980702.iraq_xms105.jpg

U.S. Army Major Dion Lyons, legal aid to the investigating officer, reads the manual for Courts-Martial, in a tent near a military hearing for four U.S soldiers accused for abusing prisoners of war at an army camp near Umm Qasr, some 675 kilometers from Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday Aug. 27, 2003. The four, all army reservists with the 320 military police battalion, are charged with punching and kicking several Iraqis, while escorting a busload to a P.O.W. processing center near Umm Qasr in May. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061980698.iraq_xms103.jpg

U.S. Army Maj. Dion Lyons, right, legal aid to the investigating officer, holding a Manual for Courts-Martial, talks to an unidentified Military Police officer outside the tent for a military hearing for the four U.S. soldiers accused of abusing prisoners of war, at an army camp near Umm Qasr, some 675 kilometers from Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday Aug. 27, 2003. The four, all army reservists with the 320 military police battalion, are charged with punching and kicking several Iraqis, while escorting a busload to a P.O.W. processing center near Umm Qasr in May. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061980676.iraq_xms104.jpg

A U.S. Military Police officer guards outside the tent where the military hearing of four U.S. soldiers accused of abusing prisoners of war is taking place, at an army camp near Umm Qasr, some 675 kilometers from Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday Aug. 27, 2003. The four, all army reservists with the 320 military police battalion, are charged with punching and kicking several Iraqis, while escorting a busload to a P.O.W. processing center near Umm Qasr in May. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061979996.iraq_xms101.jpg

U.S. Army captain Rebecca Ausprung, left, defence council, walks with one of the four soldiers accused of abusing prisoners of war, second left, for a military hearing, as other M.P.'s get their briefing at an army camp near Umm Qasr, some 675 kilometers from Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday Aug. 27, 2003. The four, all army reservists with the 320 military police battalion, are charged with punching and kicking several Iraqis, while escorting a busload to a P.O.W. processing center near Umm Qasr in May. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061979994.iraq_xms106.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061979887.iraq_xms102.jpg

U.S. Army investigating officer Chris R. Gentry, center, arrives at the military hearing of four U.S. soldiers accused of abusing prisoners of war, at an army camp near Umm Qasr, some 675 kilometers from Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday Aug. 27, 2003. The four, all army reservists with the 320 military police battalion, are charged with punching and kicking several Iraqis, while escorting a busload to a P.O.W. processing center near Umm Qasr in May. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/capt.1061979883.iraq_xms108.jpg

A U.S. Military police officer, left, stands guard as Sgt. Shawna L. Edmondson, right, one of the four U.S soldiers accused of abusing prisoners of war, takes a break at a military hearing, at an army camp near Umm Qasr, some 675 kilometers from Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday Aug. 27, 2003. The four, all army reservists with the 320 military police battalion, are charged with punching and kicking several Iraqis, while escorting a busload to a P.O.W. processing center near Umm Qasr in May. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

[spier]

Anyone remember what the estimated KIA was for this war?

[He219]

I bet you still don't realize that 77 of the deaths were through accidents and that this number exceeds actual combat related deaths. It's relative, just as someone pointed out, around 10000 Frenchies died from the heat alone in a matter of days! Go figure.....

:slap:

[Seraphim]

There are 79 non combat deaths since May 1st

And only 62 deaths from combat since May 1st

[spier]

I bet you still don't realize that 77 of the deaths were through accidents and that this number exceeds actual combat related deaths. It's relative, just as someone pointed out, around 10000 Frenchies died from the heat alone in a matter of days! Go figure.....

:slap: Not from the heat alone, most of them where either old, homeless or sick people.

Anyway, let's try again:

Anyone remember what the estimated KIA was for this war?

[Seraphim]

Deaths since begining of war
US 278
Britain 48
Other 1

[budanski]

Anyway, let's try again:

Anyone remember what the estimated KIA was for this war?

According to leftist propagandists prior to the war, hundreds of thousands would die.

[spier]

Anyway, let's try again:

Anyone remember what the estimated KIA was for this war?

According to leftist propagandists prior to the war, hundreds of thousands would die.Yeah, because of Saddams massive stocks of WMD. rofl

look not to the mote in thy neighbour's eye, when thou has a beam in thine own. indeed..

I was more thinking about a Pentagon made estimate, they usually have one of those estimates before they go to war.

[He219]

Not from the heat alone, most of them where either old, homeless or sick people.

Anyway, let's try again:
Anyone remember what the estimated KIA was for this war?

I didn't know that there was an official estimate to a KIA figure prior to any action. Did the Frenchies have any KI'Heat' figure prior to the lastest weather pattern?

[spier]

I didn't know that there was an official estimate to a KIA figure prior to any action. Did the Frenchies have any KI'Heat' figure prior to the lastest weather pattern? IIRC, then there was a semi official "leaked" estimate.

Oh, and you think France have problems? How is that obesity epedemic going? Or the murder rate? Or how about the thousands of homeless people that die everytime the temprature drop below 0C?

look not to the mote in thy neighbour's eye, when thou has a beam in thine own, I think I might add it to my sig. It's so useful when speaking to Americans.

[usa320]

Yeah, because of Saddams massive stocks of WMD rofl

Only little french bitches laugh at something as serious as weapons of mass destruction.

[/img]

[budanski]

look not to the mote in thy neighbour's eye, when thou has a beam in thine own. indeed..

look not to the mote in thy neighbour's eye, when thou has a beam in thine own. INDEED... (http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/00000006DA7A.htm)Euro-Weenie

[spier]

look not to the mote in thy neighbour's eye, when thou has a beam in thine own. indeed..

look not to the mote in thy neighbour's eye, when thou has a beam in thine own. INDEED... (http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/00000006DA7A.htm)Euro-WeenieAHAAH, so that's where you got it from,

As amusing as that article was; I don't see the relevance. The US is currently being imperialistic, while Europe used to be. Or: the US currently has a beam in its own eye, while Europe got rid of theirs and is currently laughing at the idiot with a ****ing beam in his eye.

Btw. the original is: And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? - Bible

[budanski]

I don't know what you Euro-Peons are being taught in school...

im·pe·ri·al·ism n.
The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.

Just what is imperialistic about the agenda of the United States? We have been funding the United Nations so 180 or so countries can kick America in the teeth at every opportunity that they can get. If we were imperialistic, we would be kicking back, taking over their countries, and pursuing a course of America first on international issues.

What foreign territories have we acquired? We bombed Iraq into oblivion in 1991, then helped them financially to get back on their feet, only so they can prepare to go to war with us again. If we were imperialistic, we would have taken over their oil fields and used that money to pay for the cost of the war—and then some.


BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR (What if the US were Imperialistic)
exerpt from MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/856672.asp)
Glenn Reynolds

I keep hearing complaints from the French and the Germans — and sometimes from United Nations apparatchiks — that the United States is acting as a unilateralist (though we have the support of 18 European nations plus many non-European nations), imperialist (though we aren’t likely to claim Iraq as territory) bully (though the Security Council passed a resolution calling for Saddam Hussein to do exactly what we’re demanding that he do). But I’m tired of responding to these comments with facts that will fall on stony and unreceptive ground.

Instead, I want to perform a “thought experiment” by asking this question: “How would the United States be acting if it really were an imperialist bully?” The answer is, “very differently.”

An imperial nation, possessed of the kind of lopsided military power the United States has in today’s world, wouldn’t waste its time with inspectors and diplomacy. Nor would it limit its ambitions to Iraq.

An Imperial America would probably join with nascent superpower India to divide up and conquer the region. India could have Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran; we’d take Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Egypt.

What about the “Arab street?” The answer would be machine guns, labor camps, and bulldozed mosques. (Replaced, perhaps, by new mosques with pliable mullahs). Really troublesome populations would be relocated, a la Stalin and the Crimean Tartars. (If the task proved too ugly for American troops, we’d hire mercenaries — excuse me, “Foreign Legion troops” — from sub-Saharan Africa, East Timor, and other places whose populations dislike Muslims. There would be atrocities and brutality, of course, but that would be part of the plan.) The response to people who said the war was just about oil? “You’re right. And if you’re nice to us, we’ll sell you some.” To keep the Russians happy, they’d get a cut of the action so long as they played ball.

Complaints from France and Germany would be ignored. And, given French history and German pacifism, the complaints would probably be muted once they realized they were dealing with the sort of brutal empire that they have historically either accommodated, or aspired to be. Any efforts at going beyond complaint would be met by unpleasant consequences ranging from trade sanctions, to sponsored insurgencies, to war.

Shocking? Utterly unlikely? Of course. But also entirely consistent with the way that real empires have behaved throughout history — and consistent with the way nations like Russia and China (to say nothing of France and Germany) have behaved in historical times. (The German role in facilitating Turkish massacres of Armenians, for example, is little remembered, but it drew on German experience with colonial massacres in West Africa — and laid the bureaucratic foundation for the Holocaust.)

It ought to be obvious, but given the tendency of people for misunderstanding (or, sometimes, feigned misunderstanding) in such matters, let me be clear. I don’t think that the imperial behavior I describe would be a good thing. I think it would be a very, very bad thing, and that doing it would put the United States on the same moral plane as the Soviet Union, or the People’s Republic of China, or pre-Liberation Germany, or colonial France, or Indonesia in East Timor, or Belgium in the Congo, or Syria, or — well, come to think of it, a lot of members of the United Nations. And that would be wrong, not only for its victims, but for the soul of America.

But I’m getting kind of tired hearing the United States accused of behaving like an imperial power when it isn’t. And I worry that these false accusations, repeated over and over, may actually make genuine American imperialism more likely, as the “American street” decides that if we’re going to be called an empire, we might as well act like one. What, after all, could Robert Fisk or his ilk say about America in reponse to the above that they haven’t already said anyway?


btw,
If this business were about acquiring oil, we'd be targeting Canada, Venezuela and Mexico. More oil, shorter supply lines and less resistance! If it were about acquiring a colony, we'd hit Cuba. Better weather, nicer beaches and prettier women! If it were about getting free beer, we'd topple Schroeder and his clowns. But you get the idea.

[spier]

I read the rules the other day, interesting stuff:


The first one to start using profanity or insults in an argument loses.
I don't know what you Euro-Peons are being taught in school... You loose.

(yes, I only did that because I was bored, but not bored enough to make a boring reply to complete POS post.)

[Fioraon]

And they wonder why we didn't enter the war till 1941?

[Takeda Shingen]

I beseech the Emperor and vassals of the United States Imperium to extend its national authority by the territorial acquisition of Switzerland and the establishment of an economic and political hegemony over other that nation.

The Swiss are just bitter their chance at being the richest country in the world was ruined in World War 2 by the Allies defeating Germany. Swiss was pretty much bank central for the Third Reich, they're just bitter!!! They're still bitter that one of their biggest client, the Apartheid regimes in the 20th century were defeated by the world. They're still bitter by the disappearance of their one third of share in the Compagnie des Indes, the French company that held a monopoly over the the West African slave trade. They're still bitter that their trading houses can no longer financed and do business with slave traders.

War are fought over resources, land, wealth, etc...The Swiss never had a need to fight a war to be wealthy, that's why it's so easy for them to be neutral and spout the morality of nonviolence.

[Fioraon]

I didn't know that there was an official estimate to a KIA figure prior to any action. Did the Frenchies have any KI'Heat' figure prior to the lastest weather pattern? IIRC, then there was a semi official "leaked" estimate.

Oh, and you think France have problems? How is that obesity epedemic going? Or the murder rate? Or how about the thousands of homeless people that die everytime the temprature drop below 0C?

look not to the mote in thy neighbour's eye, when thou has a beam in thine own, I think I might add it to my sig. It's so useful when speaking to Americans.

Obesity is a French problem yes. Recent studies show a third of their population has falling victim to such an epedemic as is most of Western Europe. Crime rate in the United States is at its lowest since 1974, hows Fance holding up?

Why must thy mote not in thy neighbour's even thus with a beam in thine own?

[budanski]

Thats the least (http://www.techcentralstation.be/2051/wrapper.jsp?PID=2051-100&CID=2051-082803M) of their worries (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/28/business/worldbusiness/28fran.html?pagewanted=print&position=).

Someone please tell the Yanks how imperialism works. (http://www.af.mil/stories/story_ops.asp?storyID=123005507) Its seems they havent quite grasp the idea yet.