Quiet Muslims

[chomstein]

Why aren't there Islamic clerks taking to the streets, condemning these acts. I'm not talking about an editorial here and there. I mean wide spread condemnation on every street in France, Canada, USA, etc. Personally, I believe their silence is a vote of support for these actions.

[Brozozo]

You're not the only one that feels that way, trust me.

[Chris1]

well, you see most people have these things called
JOBS
and unfortunately, this tends to limit the amount of time one can spend appeasing people like you.
Sorry.

[Trident-za]

I think the average Muslim spends as much time "demonstrating their disgust by marching through the streets" as you do. You haven't marched anywhere have you? But, I bet you still feel pretty disgusted by this crap (just like me).

[soma]

Because clerics speaking up look too much like angry clerics demanding the death of coalition members.

[obd]

Yes, actually many clerics do speak out and are speaking out. You obviosly choose to see what you wish to see and you are influenced in your perception by the fact that you WANT to see the entire Muslum world as the enemy and thus give yourself a sense of purpose and a mission to destroy them which will guide your life until you die..............Waite, arnt I talking about Al Queda?........hehehehehehehehe

[aartamen]

Examples of clerics speaking out? And not a handful, but statistically significant numbers.



The truth is that the majority of populations of Islamic countries consider these acts justified, just like the Palestinian terror. Those who don't prefer to keep quiet.

[obd]

There are almost twice the number of Muslums in the world as there are Christians.........If they were all out to kill us then we would be in some serious **** right now.

There are also millions of Muslums right here in America. If they all supported Al Queda then we would be in trouble......they could shut our nation down if they all got thier rifles and just started pulling John Mohamed sniper attacks all over the place........but they arnt. Millions of Muslums are in America for the same reason hundred of millions of other immigrants are: To provide a better life for themselves and their families and raise thier children in a free and open society.

Fact is, I dont see ANYBODY out in the street protesting terror actions these days. Does that make them guilty of supporting them? Nope. But I guess to you, it only makes Muslums guilty doesnt it? What a stupid idea. I didnt see Christians come out by the thousands after Christian radical Timothy McVeigh committed the second worst and most devestating terror strike on American soil : Oaklahoma City Bombing.......so are Christians guilty of secretly supporting them??

Do white people protest in the streets every day because tens of thousands of Americans are killed by white people every year in murders?? Of course not. Do black people demonstrate every day because a disproprtionate number of violent crimes are attributed to them? Nope, unless it is to demand more equal treatment by Mr Police man. Fact is, just because a few members of any group, be it race, gender, religion, ethnicity, nationality etc do something wrong it does not in any way place guilt on the others......and they have no greater responsiblity than anyone else to protest publicly..........They have nothing to do with it............You cannot descriminate based on certain things.......usualy the same types of things you shouldnt be stereotyping about either..........

All you have to do is run a google search and you will find dozens and dozens of Christian radical groups in America that have tens of thousands of members and who preech death to gays, jews, Catholics, the federal government, blacks, other Christians who arnt radical enough, etc etc etc.........I dont see everyday Christian Americans standing up against them.....So I guess by your logic they are all terrorist scum supporters too arnt they???? Huh?????

Jeez, the idea that 1.3+ billion people are collectively guilty of supporting terrorism because they arnt out in the streets every day protesting against Osama bin Laden is the hieght of idiocy............

I dont see ANYBODY out there doing it these days accept maybe on anniversary of 9/11 and then only in small groups.

Muslums in America are just like everybody else. They send thier kids to American schools, they work alongside us, they participate in our economy and in politics. You can find Muslum teachers, Muslum police officers, Muslum Army soldiers, Muslum Marines, Muslum Air Force pilots, Muslum buisness leaders, Muslum civil rights leaders, Muslum entrepenuers, Muslum religious leaders..........Muslum are participating in American society 100%. They are not guilty of supporting terror because they dont come out EVERY day and protest.......To say that they are is simply racist bull****..........

[VorpalDoom]

for the most part, its the way thier culture works.... thats why. plain and simple.

[obd]

Hey aartman, I got some news for you: Failure to come out and protest something in the streets does not mean guilt!!!!!!

If you go by that logic, we are all guilty of thousands and thousands of horrible crimes.

Have you protested recently over thousands of women being raped every year in America aartman? No? Well then, your guilty of supporing rapists. You should die. See how dumb that is? You are making unrealistic expectations of everyday normal people. NOBODY protests all the time.

How about this logic aartman: The simply fact that there are several MILLION Muslums living in America who have NEVER demonstrated in SUPPORT of Osama Bin Laden shows me they DO NOT support him!!!

If you can say that they are guilty of supporting terror because they arnt protesting against it then I can say they are innocent because they havnt demonstrated to support it.

I can also demand that you show me statistically significant numbers of Muslums demonstrating to support Osama Bin Laden IN AMERICA (Not in Pakistan or somewhere else.....we are talking about American Muslums here).

[obd]

Well thankfully for them, and for all of us, cultural differences do not give people the right to assault and kill other people.

All of us, down to every individual, have differences in how we view the word. As long as those views dont cause us to attack the rights of others, than we ourselves have a right to our own views....Its called freedom. Get used to living with it.

[aartamen]

Well, I AM NOT like some Muslims in the US. I never send any money to Hamas or the Chechen rebels. Yet these and other terrorist and marginally terrorist sub-cultures are funded in a very large part by American Muslims. So don't give me this **** about American Muslims being like everyone else. That's one.
Secondly, criminal murders are sometimes so heinous that people do take to the streets. And you know when especially? When there's a hint of politics involved. The terrorism is all about politics. All governments that have a shred of decency exressed their outrage about Beslan. Don't remember many Islamic gov-t's though saying much. And why gov-ts feel they need to exress? Because they are politicial creatures. Islamic clergy is politicized since after Mohammed died. They have an opinion on everything and express it. They obviously support the terrorists by being silent on the subject.

The reason the Muslims can't do anything about Christians basically running the world is not because Islam is religion of peace, but because they got their butt handed to them on several occassions. And they know that will happen again, perhaps on a scale that will make Muslims join Zoroastrians, whom they exterminated. They would have done the same to the Christians but were too stupid to keep up with technical progress.

[Trident-za]

The truth is that the majority of populations of Islamic countries consider these acts justified, just like the Palestinian terror.

You realize, of course, that IF this truth of yours was actually the real truth, the USA would have exactly 0% chance of EVER succeeding in Iraq, or anywhere in the Middle East for that matter. Personally, I think the majority of the Muslim world is probably as horrified as you are by these types of acts. Thats not to say all these Muslims are pro-US.... but the world is not a "love it or leave it" kind of place.

[aartamen]

.we are talking about American Muslums here.

You might be, I am not.

[aartamen]

You realize, of course, that IF this truth of yours was actually the real truth, the USA would have exactly 0% chance of EVER succeeding in Iraq, or anywhere in the Middle East for that matter. Personally, I think the majority of the Muslim world is probably as horrified as you are by these types of acts. Thats not to say all these Muslims are pro-US.... but the world is not a "love it or leave it" kind of place.

This is the truth. Some people understand it some don't and some prefer to stick their head into quicksand. I do not see how it has anything to do with the US chances for success in Iraq. Muslims are very used to doing what they are told. I am sure that if Qaddafi told the Lybians to march tomorrow with American flags and learn Star Spangled Banner by the dawn, many would have done that. The only issue at hand is not what the Muslims do, but what their opinion leaders do. Those I think we can keep friendly. What's left is fringe elements that undremine these rulers. And they will deal with them. That's my plan. See Pakistan, SA, Quatar. The public opinion is rabidly anti-American. Nobody gives a hoot.

[Mongrel]

Why don't you go ask Muslims this question, and let us know what you find out. You can also ask some Christans, and some Jews the same questions about their hypocritical actions, and apathy on such matters of their members.

Cheers!
M.

[obd]

and some people like you are racist little bastards whose entire lives are based on hating others.......If there were no Muslums in the world, you probably would be in the KKK. Why dont you go join up and get sent to Iraq so a haji sniper can take your head off and the world can be free of you. Or better yet, why dont you go around killing every American Muslum women you can find so they cant reproduce.........then you can be a little terrorist and get sent to the slammer and ass raped for the rest of your life.............

[obd]

Hey aartman, how come you arnt demonstating RIGHT NOW against the Christian terror network that launched the Oaklahoma City bombing and which still exists to this very day!!! You are a Christian terrorist!!! You are a threat to the security of America. You are not innocent until prven guilty. You are guilty by whatever random logic I decided to find you guilty by......... You should be out protesting. Love it or get out!!! hehehehe

[Novara]

There are almost twice the number of Muslums in the world as there are Christians........

Stop talking out of your arsehole....

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

You'll also note that most muslim countries are third-world, whereas very few Christian countries are...if any. The shoes definitely on our foot. ;)

[Novara]

and some people like you are racist little bastards whose entire lives are based on hating others.......If there were no Muslums in the world, you probably would be in the KKK. Why dont you go join up and get sent to Iraq so a haji sniper can take your head off and the world can be free of you. Or better yet, why dont you go around killing every American Muslum women you can find so they cant reproduce.........then you can be a little terrorist and get sent to the slammer and ass raped for the rest of your life.............

Take some of this, and call me in the morning....

http://www.prozac.com/images/common_images/prozac_logo.jpg

[StarvingStudent47]

There are almost twice the number of Muslums in the world as there are Christians.........If they were all out to kill us then we would be in some serious **** right now.

You've got that backward. Christianity is the largest world religion, with roughly 2 billion followers. Islam is the second largest, with roughly 1 billion.

For what it's worth, when the Columbine massacre happened, goths were very vocal about condemning the murders and disassociating themselves with Klebold and Harris. To this day, goth.net maintains an essay on the web page regarding that massacre: http://www.goth.net/colorado.html . Most goths I knew in high school wore blue-and-white Columbine ribbons for a year or so after the massacre to commemorate the victims.

Let's keep this in perspective. Fifteen people were killed by two people there. And the condemnation was worldwide from the goth community. Why is it that goth condemnation of that one incident has outnumbered Muslim condemnation of 9/11 and Beslan combined?

[Gatling]

Novara

You'll also note that most muslim countries are third-world, whereas very few Christian countries are...if any. The shoes definitely on our foot.
rofl

[jd123]

Muslims or not, endorse killing people who don't believe in your faith is an evil religion, end of disucssion for me.

and by killing all other people who dont' believe in your religion, your God is a fake God, because he doesn't have anything but hate.

Killing in the name of God is a crime that God will not forgive or forget.

[Trident-za]

This is the truth. Some people understand it some don't and some prefer to stick their head into quicksand. I do not see how it has anything to do with the US chances for success in Iraq. Muslims are very used to doing what they are told. I am sure that if Qaddafi told the Lybians to march tomorrow with American flags and learn Star Spangled Banner by the dawn, many would have done that. The only issue at hand is not what the Muslims do, but what their opinion leaders do. Those I think we can keep friendly. What's left is fringe elements that undremine these rulers. And they will deal with them. That's my plan. See Pakistan, SA, Quatar. The public opinion is rabidly anti-American. Nobody gives a hoot.

I agree that a big number of Muslims in many countries are "rabidly anti-American". I'm just less sure that it equates to thinking cutting heads off is decent behaviour. You can be anti-US without condoning that sort of thing, just as you can be pro-US without condoning killing civilians.

I don't agree with your thinking it has no affect on the US chances of success, but I guess we all have opinions. In my opinion, the only reason the US is still in Iraq is because the majority of the locals are not rabidly anti-US. If that ever changes (and the animosity does seem to be growing) in a big way, the US will be out of there fast. The level of insurgency they are facing now would seem trivial if 95% of the Iraqi population thought that Americans "deserved" to have their heads cut off.

[Gatling]

aartamen
Yet these and other terrorist and marginally terrorist sub-cultures are funded in a very large part by American Muslims.
Where do you get your facts from, professor? If Hamas and alike orgs were largely funded by american muslims , trust me they would be long gone by now?

All governments that have a shred of decency exressed their outrage about Beslan. Don't remember many Islamic gov-t's though saying much
Again , facts billyboy?Egypt, Morocco, Yemen, and Jordan are the ones I remember sending their messages to Putin and that according to the Washington times, I'm sure there's more.

Muslims are very used to doing what they are told.
Again a very blatant IGNORANT statement. I am muslim , mister, and unlike you don't take for "holy truth" whatever comes out of your TV.

[Mongrel]

Starv'student wrote:

Let's keep this in perspective. Fifteen people were killed by two people there. And the condemnation was worldwide from the goth community. Why is it that goth condemnation of that one incident has outnumbered Muslim condemnation of 9/11 and Beslan combined?

MH..as a Goth let me answer this:
Might be because the Gothic community tends to have a greater cross section of societies educated, and willing to think outside the box people (hence why they don't often fit in).

And If they have religion in their lives (usally pagan) it is on their own terms, and THEY control the myth NOT the myth controling them.

Cheers!
M.

[Novara]

I am muslim , mister, and unlike you don't take for "holy truth" whatever comes out of your TV.

It is interesting to note your avatar. Your favorite bevarage is it, mister?

[Gatling]

There's an exception when you're TAP{parachutist} ;)

[penna]

we need tane angle quickly!!!

[Novara]

There's an exception when you're TAP{parachutist} ;)

Are you saying you wont jump out of the plane unless you're drunk? ok.... :|

[von_Moo142]

Well, I AM NOT like some Muslims in the US. I never send any money to Hamas or the Chechen rebels.


I'm sure that you realise that plenty of good Christians in the US were busy sending money (and more practical support) to terrorists untill a few years ago.

So I could ask this question: Why didn't American Christians condemn this?

But that would be pretty stupid, because most US Christians didn't support the Provos.


Now, you won't find large portions of the Islamic community in any western country coming out and supporting the war in Iraq, for example. Is that because they support AQ?

No, of course not. It may be because they disagree with the war, which last time I checked, was their right. Not agreeing with what the US does is not the same as supporting terror.


When Bush said the with us or against us thing, he was being an ass. There was no need for you to take it literally.

It's interesting to note the Church of England also doesn't support the war. Are they giving money to Hamas too?

[Gatling]

There's an exception when you're TAP{parachutist} ;)

Are you saying you wont jump out of the plane unless you're drunk? ok.... :|
Seriously , dude, why are you trying so hard? Okay, let me put it this way, it's none of your GADAM business, whether I drink alcohol or not, you HEAR me?
PS:another thing man, the pastaga is more than a drink for those of us from the south of France, it's an identity.

[username]

Why aren't there Islamic clerks taking to the streets, condemning these acts. I'm not talking about an editorial here and there. I mean wide spread condemnation on every street in France, Canada, USA, etc. Personally, I believe their silence is a vote of support for these actions.

how do you know they arent? you know why, because your sitting there in your arm chair watching TV and believing everything it tells you and are not getting out in to the real world to acctually see what is happening

[2RHPZ]

SOUR GRAPES OF A DEFORMED CULTURE
ANOTHER VOICE

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but sadly, almost all terrorists are Muslims

Yusuf al-Qaradawi

The hostage-takers of children in Beslan, North Ossetia, were Muslims. The other hostage-takers and subsequent murderers of the Nepalese chefs and workers in Iraq were also Muslims. Those involved in rape and murder in Darfur, Sudan, are Muslims, with other Muslims chosen to be their victims.

Those responsible for the attacks on residential towers in Riyadh and Khobar were Muslims. The two women who crashed two airliners last week were also Muslims. Osama bin Laden is a Muslim. The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings in buses, vehicles, schools, houses and buildings, all over the world, were Muslim. What a pathetic record. What an abominable “achievement”. Does all this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies and our culture?

These images, when put together, or taken separately, are shameful and degrading. But let us start with putting an end to a history of denial. Let us acknowledge their reality, instead of denying them and seeking to justify them with sound and fury signifying nothing. For it would be easy to cure ourselves if we realize the seriousness of our sickness. Self-cure starts with self-realization and confession. We should then run after our terrorist sons, in the full knowledge that they are the sour grapes of a deformed culture.

Let us listen to Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the Sheikh — the Qatar-based radical Egyptian cleric — and hear him recite his fatwa about the religious permissibility of killing civilian Americans in Iraq. Let us contemplate the incident of this religious Sheikh allowing, nay even calling for, the murder of civilians. This ailing Sheikh, in his last days, with two daughters studying in “infidel” Britain, soliciting children to kill innocent civilians.

How could this Sheikh face the mother of the youthful Nick Berg, who was slaughtered in Iraq because he wanted to build communication towers in that ravished country? How can we believe him when he tells us that Islam is the religion of mercy and peace while he is turning it into a religion of blood and slaughter?

In a different era, we used to consider the extremists, with nationalist or leftist leanings, a menace and a source of corruption because of their adoption of violence as a means of discourse and their involvement in murder as an easy shortcut to their objectives. At that time, the mosque used to be a haven, and the voice of religion used to be that of peace and reconciliation. Religious sermons were warm behests for a moral order and an ethical life.

Then came the Neo-Muslims. An innocent and benevolent religion, whose verses prohibit the felling of trees in the absence of urgent necessity, that calls murder the most heinous of crimes, that says explicitly that if you kill one person you have killed humanity as a whole, has been turned into a global message of hate and a universal war cry.

We can’t call those who take schoolchildren as hostages our own.

We cannot tolerate in our midst those who abduct journalists, murder civilians, explode buses; we cannot accept them as related to us, whatever the sufferings they claim to justify their criminal deeds. These are the people who have smeared Islam and stained its image.

We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women.

We cannot redeem our extremist youths, who commit all these heinous crimes, without confronting the Sheikhs who thought it ennobling to re-invent themselves as revolutionary ideologues, sending other people’s sons and daughters to certain death, while sending their own children to European and American schools and colleges.

Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, The Daily Telegraph

[Ayura]

Anyone forgetting Ahmed Shah Massoud's fight against Al-quada?

[Baltic]

Anyone forgetting Ahmed Shah Massoud's fight against Al-quada?

This fight was not religion based. It was political or better to say power based.


how come you arnt demonstating RIGHT NOW against the Christian terror network that launched the Oaklahoma City bombing
Oaklahoma bombing was not religion based AFAIK. He did that not in a name of a Christ.

I don't know any organized christian group who kills/killed people due to their religious beliefs during the last 100 years. If suddenly any fundamental christian group would apear, Im sure a lot of people would condemn it's actions. Christian church will be probably the first to do that. I'm sure there will be people in the streets. When some muslims are killing people in the name of their religion their leaders pretend not to notice it. So I do agree with some people that they silently suport it.

[goldman]

Man this bull **** people got to stop using the religions for political agenda. :fork:

[Umm-Qasr]

Yes, actually many clerics do speak out and are speaking out. You obviosly choose to see what you wish to see and you are influenced in your perception by the fact that you WANT to see the entire Muslum world as the enemy and thus give yourself a sense of purpose and a mission to destroy them which will guide your life until you die..............Waite, arnt I talking about Al Queda?........heheheheheheheheI couldn't agree more. But trying to change the views of those who believe ANYTHING on the media is impossible. At least ur trying ...

[Lazy Lob]

well, you see most people have these things called
JOBS
and unfortunately, this tends to limit the amount of time one can spend appeasing people like you.
Sorry.

???? That IS their job.


Anyone forgetting Ahmed Shah Massoud's fight against Al-quada?

This thread is full of "sound bites" Ayura stop drinking absynth.

[username]

Why aren't there Islamic clerks taking to the streets, condemning these acts. I'm not talking about an editorial here and there. I mean wide spread condemnation on every street in France, Canada, USA, etc. Personally, I believe their silence is a vote of support for these actions.

How do you know that arent?

[Nizark]

Perhaps the clerics also see it as a internal matter, and they want to deal with with from 'within the family' so they could care less about what the western world's perception of them is.
Also, unless its a madrassa or some other blatantly fundimentalist muslim school, I seriously doubt that any cleric..from prayer leader to Ayatollah would not try and some a radical from committing some form of violence against anyone.
On the other hand, the clerical caste does have some blame to take. I have heard countless stories on the news and in person about how people who commit suicide bombings, attack innocents or the 9/11 nineteen were not 'real muslims' because real muslims do not kill innocent people. Now, that may be true in the eyes of some scholars, but also its a way of shrugging off responsiblity and putting those who commit crimes into the 'non-muslim' catagory, so they have no control of say over what they do, nor their actions on a religious level.

Was there massive anti molestation marches when the catholic church was under fire for its priests raping little boys? None that I saw..they decided to keep it in the family and deal with it on their own.

A big anti terrorism march with clerics leading the way would serve no purpose but to make fox news and the other media outlets happy, so they can make a puff piece on how 'our muslims are good, and the ones we are fighting are bad.' They have spoken out against it, and that is great, but it really is a internal problem with a small number of people of the islamic faith taking their religion that they say they are defending, and absolutely raping it, just using it for their own selfish and greedy means and giving a bad name to the rest of their fellow believers because they subscribe to the same religion.

[~Berdan]

Yes, actually many clerics do speak out and are speaking out. You obviosly choose to see what you wish to see and you are influenced in your perception by the fact that you WANT to see the entire Muslum world as the enemy and thus give yourself a sense of purpose and a mission to destroy them which will guide your life until you die..............Waite, arnt I talking about Al Queda?........heheheheheheheheI couldn't agree more. But trying to change the views of those who believe ANYTHING on the media is impossible. At least ur trying ...

Agreed .
I would also like people to read about this .

http://www.wpherald.com/Religion_Culture/storyview.php?StoryID=20050105-010543-5248r



Eye on Eurasia: Sources for liberal Islam
By Paul Goble
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Published January 5, 2005

TARTU, Estonia -- Supporters of what some call "liberal Islam" are using the Internet to spread their ideas, even though the meaning and use of this term by various groups in the Russian Federation and elsewhere remains a matter of intense dispute.

A Russian-language religious information portal, Credo.ru, has tried to introduce some clarity on the issue by offering what it calls "a 'working' definition of liberal Islam" and then discussing the most important Web sites where this idea is discussed. (http://www.portal-credo.ru/site/print.php?act=netnav&id=81)

"'Liberal Islam'," Credo.ru's Valeriy Yemel'yanov writes, "is a reading of the dogmatics and social-political doctrines of this religion which strives to adapt it to the realities of the contemporary world and above all to the achievements of Western civilization such as freedom of the personality, economic freedom, democracy and human rights."

As such, it would be more appropriate to describe this as "a liberal approach to Islam." But Yemel'yanov says that what people typically call "liberal Islam" is characterized by "openness, tolerance and acceptance of changes taking place in the contemporary world." Moreover, it is neither aggressive nor insistent that Islam is the only true faith.

Most of the supporters of "liberal-Islamic ideas," the Credo.ru writer says, live in the United States, the countries of Western Europe, and in the non-Arab countries of South Asia. But a growing number live elsewhere, including in the Russian Federation, Azerbaijan and the countries of Central Asia.

Yemel'yanov argues that Euro-Islam, which is actively supported by some religious and political activists in Tatarstan and Switzerland, is related to "liberal Islam" but that it is not the same thing.

On the one hand, the Credo.ru analysts suggests, Euro-Islam is more often a geographic category with obvious political connotations than a distinctive religious point of view. And on the other, at least some of the supporters of Euro-Islam do not take liberal positions on many issues.

One advocate of Euro-Islam who does support "liberal Islam," Yemel'yanov writes, is Tatarstan's Rafael Khakimov, the director of the Kazan Institute of History and a senior adviser to Tatarstan President Mintimir Shaimiev.

Long an advocate of promoting among Tatars a moderate to liberal form of Islam, Khakimov has written widely on the subject, most notably in his book "Where is Our Mecca? A Manifesto of Euro-Islam." (This and many of his other works on this topic are available at http://www.kazanfed.ru/authors/khakimov/ ).

Khakimov's ideas, Yemel'yanov suggests, are based on the proposition that Islam's central text, the Koran, should not be accepted in its entirety but rather that today's Muslims must carefully distinguish between that part of its content which is universally and eternally true and that part which was directed to a specific people in a particular place and time -- namely, 7th century Arabia.

Not surprisingly, Khakimov's ideas have attracted some supporters and many opponents. The former see them as the basis for squaring Islam with modernity, while the latter accuse him of seeking to replace genuine Islam with what one writer has called an overly-permissive, even "drunken" Islam.

Not surprisingly, most Muslim leaders inside the Russian Federation have treated Khakimov's "liberal" Islamic project with great caution. But at least a few of them now are willing to consider his views seriously.

One of these, Ali-Vyacheslav Polosin, the adviser to the chairman of the Council of Muftis of Russia who created the Russian-language Islam-Info site (http://www.islam-info.ru/ ), told Credo-.ru his site is open to the ideas of liberal Islam because Islam-Info focuses on "the social-political aspect of Islam in the context of human rights."

Another is a site maintained by the Azerbaijani Islamic scholar Aydyn Ali-zade (http://www.aboutislam.ws ). And still a third site -- although one not mentioned by Yemel'yanov -- where liberal Islamic ideas are frequently found is the one maintained by the Muslim Spiritual Directorate of Ukraine, www.islamyat.ua .

In his article, Yemel'yanov pints to other sites to which those interested in "liberal Islam" can turn: in Europe (http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_softlink.php/_c-365/i.html, in the United States (http://www.muslimwakeup.com/index.php), in Indonesia (http://islamlib.com/en/page.php), and in Bangladesh (http://www.liberalislam.net).

There are other more specialized sites as well about "liberal Islam", and the Credo.ru writer urges using the hypertext links at the site of Charles Kurtzman, the American author of a 1998 volume on the subject (http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/LiberalIslamLinks.htm)

By publishing this review of "liberal Islam" sites, Yemel'yanov clearly wants to do more than just provide an academic guide to this field. Instead, he clearly hopes that ever more Muslims in Russia and abroad will consider the ideas of the "liberal Islam" project even if in the end they do not accept them in their entirety.

[Johnny_H02]

Muslims or not, endorse killing people who don't believe in your faith is an evil religion, end of disucssion for me.

and by killing all other people who dont' believe in your religion, your God is a fake God, because he doesn't have anything but hate.

Killing in the name of God is a crime that God will not forgive or forget.
iF that is true then all the major Faith's are negated.
LOL if you think Christians havent killed in the name of god .... rofl
( not saying you made that assumption but if you have just take a look into it )

as for this discussion, I just think people are people with common values.
Call it Niave all you want but when it comes down to it. people want to provide for thier own keep thier loved ones safe and live thier everyday life. That is regardless of race or faith and its human nature to kill one another we just happen to use faith as the most popular excuse.