France Objects adding Hammas to terrorist organizations list [Archive]

hendrix33

09-02-2003, 11:18 AM

The following news item is taken from one of Israel's largest papers
Source (Hebrew): http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2744218,00.html

I translated most of the content.

France, Greece and Ireland will object including Hammas to the terrorist organizations list.

In the upcomming weekend the European Union is schedulled to discuss the matter of including Hammas in the list of terrorist organizations. The meaning for this act would be to shut the organization's flow of cash via European bank acounts. It is estimated by Israel's ministry of foreign afairs (MFA) that most European countries will support the decision, but this sort of decision has to be a concenseous and cannot be taken by a majority alone.

It is estimated by MFA that France will lead the opposition to the act, followed by Ireland and Greece.

It is important to add that these were quoted as mere estimates, which do not represent any official position on behalf of the governments in question.

The meanning of this step, which was proposed by Italy, is to cease the finance of terror via charity organizations affiliated with European back accounts.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

oldsoak

09-02-2003, 12:08 PM

Nothing wrong with Irish ale, nor any of the Irish that I've met. IMHO, it may be that the Irish government has adopted this stance from its policy of neutrality - you dont take sides so you have to talk to both sides which means you have to recognise the factions in the Palestinian side. I dont think the Irish government like the idea of having to deal with Hamas, but they probably feel that they have to keep that channel open.
rgds

hood

09-02-2003, 12:19 PM

yeah but when your country ends up being used to funnel money for bombs, you have to take a side eventually. it would appear however that it may be moot, as Israel is taking them out, several at a time these days.

ArmoredDov_D9

09-02-2003, 01:09 PM

How many of you think that the USA should put France in the list of terror-supporting countries?

hendrix33

09-02-2003, 02:17 PM

First, I don't think France should be in the list.

HOWEVER, not taking action could be worse that taking a negative action. If France is the obstacle for stopping a major source of Hammas income, which could mean ONE less bus suicide bomb, I think you can say the blood of the victims is on their hand.

Not very much different from Russia's sell of Busher's reactor to Iran.

ArmoredDov_D9

09-02-2003, 06:06 PM

I don't believe France objects to enter Hamas to the terror-groups list because of humanitarian or moral values. They do it mainly for their interests - and not only political interests (or paying Hamas not to bomb in their place) but also for financial reasons. Chiraque, drowing out till his nose with corruption affairs, and after supporting Saddam all-the-way found the finanicing terror is paying off. What is the blood of 7 Jewish children compared to millions of Euros flowing through France banks and donation to Islamic "charity" funds.

France is guilty in aiding Hamas. It hosts Hamas funders (and knows about it) and chose to do nothing against them.
Who funds terror is a terrorist.
Who host terrorists is a terrorist.
Conclude what France is.

So maybe France don't deliberately involved in the final steps of Hamas's murder industry - but their name should be written on the factory's plank of "Honor Donors". They don't make the bombs but they give the money which buys the row material for the bombs.

France won't be held clean. This episode should be written in the book of "France's darkest hours" along with the Draifus affair and the Vishi government.

p.s. Russia's aid to the Irani nuclear program is worse as well. Putin is not held clean either.

Rantanplan

09-02-2003, 06:12 PM

Excuse me Mister, but that's Rubbish!

Sirpad

09-02-2003, 06:29 PM

It may not sound good - and then again, it was never good. i believe france does have a political interestin this one, and its not that complex: known fact is that france is doing bussines with many arab contries, and they preffer seeing the hamas as just another potential customer.
they might also look to a future of (elected) hamas members seating in the palestinian parliament - yet another political, comercial, and finantial reason.

i think in a way france sees itself as some sort of political "robin hood" toward the worst arab countries/organizations. call me paranoid - something definitely stinks in that story!

Rantanplan

09-02-2003, 06:36 PM

A French World Conspiracy? Nope!

hendrix33

09-02-2003, 08:01 PM

Let me add some fact to help understanding Sirpad's point.
Figures are taken from the CIA's world factbook.

IRAN

Imports:
$21.8 billion f.o.b. (2002 est.)

Imports - partners:
Germany 13%, Italy 10%, France 8%, China 7%, South Korea 7% (2001)

Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html

IRAQ (prior to the latest conflict)

Imports:
$7.8 billion f.o.b. (2002 est.)

Imports - partners:
France 19.4%, Australia 14.4%, Italy 10.7%, Germany 9.9% (2001)

Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html

A simple math shows me France makes 3.2572 BILLION Dollars annualy, only from two openly supporting terror islamic nations. Now you do the math.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/fr-lgflag.gif

budanski

09-02-2003, 10:42 PM

This is expected. France is sitting on a muslim powderkeg just waiting to go off. These idiots in the French government think that if they keep appeasing the muslims, they will behave.

Follow the money. French money flows to Hamas. Hamas helps 10,000 old people appear to die from a heat wave, to bail out the French pension fund.

usa320

09-03-2003, 12:07 AM

How many of you think that the USA should put France in the list of terror-supporting countries?

woot I do...

Hamas openly acknowledges it terrorist ways...

I think its time for some tough talk with Chiraq...the limp wristed dweeb. Its all about money until some Hmas or Al Queida asshole blows up the eifel tower or something, then its "America, please help us".

hood

09-03-2003, 12:34 AM

Been there, done that.

http://www.knfo.net/graphics/eif01.jpg

JiJoMacLE45

09-03-2003, 12:38 AM

I was wondering where you had gone Hood. Now I know.

StarvingStudent47

09-03-2003, 01:14 AM

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
--a quote from Hamas's official charter, available here:
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

No, they're not terrorists, they would never have any terrorist leanings!!! Why would anybody think that? Just because they exist in order to blow up busfuls of civilians? Gosh, I can't believe Bush and pals had the chutzpah to declare these peace-loving pacifists "terrorists" and try to freeze their funding!!!

hood

09-03-2003, 02:26 AM

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Looks like the freezing of their money took care of the 3rd one...

budanski

09-03-2003, 10:24 AM

http://civilwarclipart.com/Clipartgallery/images/ConcordTower.jpg

hood

09-03-2003, 10:32 AM

From a pink panther movie:

Guy #1 walks down the street and stops at the street corner waiting for the light to change. He sees Guy #2 with a dog next to him.

Guy #1: What a nice dog. Does your dog bite?
Guy #2: No he does not. (heavy french accent)

Guy #1 proceeds to bend down and pet the dog, which promptly tries to bite him.

Guy #1: I thought you said your dog doesn't bite!
Guy #2: That's not my dog.

Now that you've read about dogs and biting, read what Johnny Depp thinks about the US, and why you should probably skip his next movie.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/03/depp.us.reax.reut/index.html

budanski

09-03-2003, 10:59 AM

Johnny can explain to his children about the latest "memorials" to French culture...

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2003/08/26-france.jpg
Graves of unclaimed and unidentified heat victims are becoming a more common sight in France. By Franck Prevel, AP

I mean c'mon. Check out his bio. He dropped out of high school.

It kills me that high school dropouts (Depp, Streisand) can pretend to have such wisdom. They malign a man (George Bush) who holds a BA from Yale and and MBA from Harvard.

Moving to France is not enough. STAY THE HELL THERE. Dont come back to America to make your movies, Leave your nasty American money in America. These buttheads dont mind being in America long enough to get rich. Who does this clown think is supporting his lifestyle? Another lucky idiot with a big mouth that needs it closed with a fist in it.

hendrix33

09-03-2003, 12:09 PM

Folks, I didn't open this Thread with a meanning of creating one of those 'hate' threads. I don't believe in that.

Yes, Israel is suffering French security and international policies for decades, but I don't believe in hate. Let's try to stick to the facts.

usa320

09-03-2003, 02:53 PM

What is with CNN and running news that doesnt even count as news?

Every other person in the world has an opinion, but they dont run everyone elses opinion as a headline, just the rich and famous...

Its time to give CNN the midfinger.

I stopped watching them about 2 years ago, now it seems they are even worse...

CNN=Communist News Network

Rantanplan

09-03-2003, 03:00 PM

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

hood

09-04-2003, 05:51 PM

This is great. It continues to show what these people are really like. They're like spoiled children...

Mr Arafat was not present at the meeting - he remains isolated in his Ramallah headquarters.

But his supporters forced the prime minister to enter the parliament building through a back door.

Some tried to force their way into the building. Masked men carrying swords and clubs spray-painted a slogan on the wall, "We want Abu Mazen's government to fall" and signed: the Al-Aqsa Brigades - linked to Mr Arafat's Fatah movement.

ArmoredDov_D9

09-04-2003, 06:32 PM

[quote="Hood"]This is great. It continues to show what these people are really like. They're like spoiled children...
[quote]

Actually, is more like CRAZED spolid children...

Miles Teg

09-05-2003, 11:56 AM

Sure, france is the main culprit.

France is the main funding of all terrorist nations.

Most of the terrorists suspected of the 11th september were french.

The most supplier of weapons in Irak is France.

We are the origin of all your suffer an pain. We do that.

And after this the american are striking on Afghanistan and Irak. Why not France? You're silly dumb...

I you hate us so much, declare war, win this war easily and at the end we will rest in peace.

Keep in mind that 5.000.000.000 people on this planet don't speak your language and don't think like you.

Sure this is second degree of humour, but some times I have enough to heard so much stupidity. (damn what I'm doing here?)

Why so much unidentified heat victims? Because since 1945 they are widow, without children and family. Nobody to remember them. Lonely for 50 years... This is a reality of war.

budanski

09-05-2003, 12:08 PM

"Keep in mind that 5.000.000.000 people on this planet don't speak your language and don't think like you. "

Heres the third degree. Its called a reality check.
Last 'Adieu' to French as World Language? (http://publicbroadcasting.net/wbur/news.newsmain?action=printarticle&ARTICLE_ID=518233)
Aux armes! - France is fighting a rearguard battle against the invasion of English (http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1031712,00.html)

StarvingStudent47

09-05-2003, 03:43 PM

Sure this is second degree of humour, but some times I have enough to heard so much stupidity. (damn what I'm doing here?)

This thread has gotten WAY off track. Let's try to bring it back on track. How about we drop the discussions of heat victims, WWII, freedom fries, and everything like that.

Miles Teg, do you agree with your government's declaration that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not terrorists? If you do, could you please explain that? If not, do you have any idea of what angle Chirac's government is trying to work here? Because it's not just Americans who think that's an outrageous claim to make. My understanding is that France is the only European Union country opposed to freezing Hamas' funding.

Miles Teg

09-05-2003, 04:58 PM

do you agree with your government's declaration that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not terrorists? If you do, could you please explain that?

When an israelian is saying to me that the Hamas is only 10% terrorist. The 90% is an organisation providing help in the refugees city.

So, if we make favor to you. We declare the Hamas terrorist, and freeze the fundings. That will stop the fundings coming from France?

Heres the third degree. Its called a reality check.
Last 'Adieu' to French as World Language?
Aux armes! - France is fighting a rearguard battle against the invasion of English
Sorry Budanski I don't understand :) too high level english for me :oops: .
Sure I'm using english for work and it's very usefull. English as universal communication language, sure I like this.
Just sometime it looks like you forget that there are not only the US on the world.

We made the ONU. It was define that some countries can use "veto" right.
It's not because most people say something that will be true.
For Iraq, we said you're in wrong way. And US continue to try to prove the action. The best time was when Powell show a glass can of "biological powder" and said that tons and tons of this are in Iraq... LOL

Maybe you would manage to convince us just with the Sadam problem.
Sadam is a bad guy (forget that's the CIA set him in Iraq...), we must down him. Okay for this. For me just with this you will be right to go in Irak.

But the US insist on mass weapon. Where are they now ? Where are the tons and tons of Anthrax powder? We just see poor men bombing GI's cars. (Sorry for your soldier, they are the victim too in this)

When you've start the war, you've stopped a lot of buisness between France and Iraq. And prove me that these buisnness were dirty.

With the illegal use of war without the UN consentment(I don't know other wrods for this) we forget any hope of taking part to the reconstruction of Irak.
And now? Asking us to support US in Irak rofl ... Bugging us with the Hamas "definition"...

And don't say we take care of our muslim people in france because of politic election... Our elections are far. But I see that somebody have big interest to make end of the Irak problem before the close next election. poor george... :petting:

Stop bugging french with little problems (because we are a little country, don't you?).
And before talking about the straw in our eye, take care of the beam in yours.

budanski

09-05-2003, 05:25 PM

We made the ONU. It was define that some countries can use "veto" right.
It's not because most people say something that will be true.
For Iraq, we said you're in wrong way.
France can disagree but when France goes out of its way to sabotage what the U.S. was trying to present to the UNSC, that doesnt seem like the actions of an ally.

And US continue to try to prove the action. The best time was when Powell show a glass can of "biological powder" and said that tons and tons of this are in Iraq... LOL
I guess this is where you're gonna tell me the U.S. supplied Iraq with the chemical weapons used on the Kurds? Did it happened at all or was the same conspirators who faked the moon landing staged this one as well?

Maybe you would manage to convince us just with the Sadam problem.
Sadam is a bad guy (forget that's the CIA set him in Iraq...), we must down him. Okay for this. For me just with this you will be right to go in Irak.
So is this what state-run french media is running with now? The CIA set up Saddam? Please direct me to official sources on this. (Mortimer and Spiers' resources are to be read with an aluminum suit)

But the US insist on mass weapon. Where are they now ? Where are the tons and tons of Anthrax powder?
Oh yeah, besides the fact that 12 other resolutions were passed and Iraq's own admission of having these weapons.

When you've start the war, you've stopped a lot of buisness between France and Iraq. And prove me that these buisnness were dirty.
They were dirty because there was something called sanctions which you Frogs agreed to sign on.

With the illegal use of war without the UN consentment(I don't know other wrods for this) we forget any hope of taking part to the reconstruction of Irak.
And now? Asking us to support US in Irak rofl ... Bugging us with the Hamas "definition"...
Funny how its illegal ONLY when France don't want to play. Did you Frogs get permission to go into the Ivory Coast? Did the Ivory Coast have countless UNSC resolutions passed on it?

Miles Teg

09-05-2003, 05:50 PM

France can disagree but when France goes out of its way to sabotage what the U.S. was trying to present to the UNSC, that doesnt seem like the actions of an ally.
Sabotage, how?

I guess this is where you're gonna tell me the U.S. supplied Iraq with the chemical weapons used on the Kurds? Did it happened at all or was the same conspirators who faked the moon landing staged this one as well? ;)
I don't see the relation, just see in the TV Colin Powell showing this during a UN session.

So is this what state-run french media is running with now? The CIA set up Saddam? Please direct me to official sources on this.
I know it's not funded, just a joke/trap. you get in ;)

(Mortimer and Spiers' resources are to be read with an aluminum suit) This is true, our media showing this conspiration thesis must be approach with this precaution. We have our hygienic papers too.

Oh yeah, besides the fact that 12 other resolutions were passed and Iraq's own admission of having these weapons.
Maybe they admit thaht because they where tired of your stubborn? I remember they said that just when you become agressive and talk about war. Sadam want you to go in Irak. Remenber : Joke/Trap. Sadam get you ;)

They were dirty because there was something called sanctions which you Frogs agreed to sign on.
Since 10 years (maybe less I asume) we disagree with the commercial sanctions.

Funny how its illegal ONLY when France don't want to play. Did you Frogs get permission to go into the Ivory Coast? Did the Ivory Coast have countless UNSC resolutions passed on it?
I heard nobody raging against this since now. And we continue and asume to help an old colonie. And I see somewhere that the region is under UN control and the french troops will be replace by other country troops.

Miles Teg

09-05-2003, 05:55 PM

Ahh, I forget. Your two main objectives still runing on the world.
Sadam and Ben Laden, they are dangerous, you know? Why you don't catch them ?

Sorry, rofl very bad joke.
In france the most use joke is that Ben Laden escape with Mollah Omar on a 103Sp Peugeot, it's a french motor bycicle. :lol:

citizen-k

09-05-2003, 07:48 PM

I was sure it was the french presidents personal chopper...

I can't wait for the next version of the game "Medal of honor" where you get to play an American soldior landing on french soil fighting to free them from the muslims...

Miles Teg

09-05-2003, 08:06 PM

I can't wait for the next version of the game "Medal of honor" where you get to play an American soldior landing on french soil fighting to free them from the muslims...

Have you something against the muslim? (outside the fact you're israelian)

Xenophobi? and hoping a war? Very interesting...

cut

09-05-2003, 10:11 PM

just to set something straight.. France would make far more money out of brown-nosing the states like the rest of the world (incl. the states funnily enough) than trying to get money out of Iran and Iraq..

do you honestly expect france and germany to help us now when they were against the war in the first place.. it's our mess we clean it up, if other countries want to help when we ask them than that's great.

http://www.knfo.net/graphics/eif01.jpg

"the famous paris monument"!!! that's hilarious, it reminds me of this american family sitting next to me on the plane from N.Y. to London who didn't know what Big Ben was.

cut

09-05-2003, 10:13 PM

I can't wait for the next version of the game "Medal of honor" where you get to play an American soldior landing on french soil fighting to free them from the muslims...

sick joke.. i don't care where you are from.. shame you have to live your life through computerised american soldiers

cut

09-05-2003, 10:18 PM

ArmoredDov_D9

09-06-2003, 08:36 AM

citizen-k

09-06-2003, 08:36 AM

sick joke.. i don't care where you are from.. shame you have to live your life through computerised american soldiers

I live my life through french money funded bombs blowing up in my neighborhood, unlike you who lives his life through TV reports...

The meaning (to those of you who didn't get it) was that french WILL suffer from the muslim terorism in the future - and yes, they will come crying for help from the Americans and from the Israelis to teach them how to do it...

And no, I don't have anything against muslims (I actially have some close muslim friends in Lebanon) BUT I do have a lot against those who use Islam as an excuse for murder.

ArmoredDov_D9

09-06-2003, 08:43 AM

More over, citizen-k, Israel have alliance and peace treaty with one of the largest Muslim countries - TURKEY.

ArmoredDov_D9

09-06-2003, 10:06 AM

cut

09-06-2003, 11:50 AM

I live my life through french money funded bombs blowing up in my neighborhood, unlike you who lives his life through TV reports...

you know that, do you? I've lived most of my life abroad, including places with terrorism problems. even when I lived in london there was a IRA bomb near my school. but you're right I've never lived in a place as ****ed up as Israel, because no matter how corrupt or crazy the government was they were never stupid enough to bait the terrorsits, like Sharon & co.

The meaning (to those of you who didn't get it) was that french WILL suffer from the muslim terorism in the future - and yes, they will come crying for help from the Americans and from the Israelis to teach them how to do it...

How would you know are you saying that just because there are muslims there they will rebel? I can see how you might make that assumption from india, iraq (shi'ites/sunnis) and israel but the thing is muslims aren't treated like **** in France. The same with american muslims, they are perfectly happy in the US

And no, I don't have anything against muslims (I actially have some close muslim friends in Lebanon) BUT I do have a lot against those who use Islam as an excuse for murder.
so why make the comment about americans going into france to deal with muslims?

cut

09-06-2003, 11:57 AM

Good news!!!

According to Israeli Channel 2 - The European Union decided to include also Hamas "political" wing in the terror organization list.

That means, that Hamas is officialy 100% terrorist in the eyes and documents of the European Union.

now for the kind of news we're used to

Bad news!!

Israeli F-16s tried to blow up the head of Hamas -sheikh Ahmed Yassin -
And failed, injuring him... what a great move! now not only is the evil sheikh still alive but his hamas bombmakers are working overtime, because he has promised revenge..

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/09/06/mideast.violence/vert.yassin.ap.jpg

citizen-k

09-06-2003, 12:15 PM

More over, citizen-k, Israel have alliance and peace treaty with one of the largest Muslim countries - TURKEY.

After living with a Turkish room mate for 2 years I know that :)

Again, the problem (as you know) is not Muslims but muslims who use Islam as an excuse to kill.

ArmoredDov_D9

09-06-2003, 01:13 PM

Bad news!!

Israeli F-16s tried to blow up the head of Hamas -sheikh Ahmed Yassin -
And failed, injuring him... what a great move! now not only is the evil sheikh still alive but his hamas bombmakers are working overtime, because he has promised revenge..

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/09/06/mideast.violence/vert.yassin.ap.jpg

Whooo - they've promise revenge. Like they did in the past last 17 days.
Whooo - I scared. What they gonna do? CONTINUE to try to kill Jews? They'll do it anyway.

It is too bad that Yasin is alive. Well, maybe next time...

StarvingStudent47

09-06-2003, 02:26 PM

How would you know are you saying that just because there are muslims there they will rebel? I can see how you might make that assumption from india, iraq (shi'ites/sunnis) and israel but the thing is muslims aren't treated like **** in France. The same with american muslims, they are perfectly happy in the US

Except for the Muslim extremists who kill thousands of our civilians in terrorist attacks. Remember al-Qaeda? Saying "If you give Muslims everything they demand, their extremists will then lay down their arms" and then pointing at the United States is not a very good line of reasoning.

StarvingStudent47

09-06-2003, 02:27 PM

Whooo - they've promise revenge. Like they did in the past last 17 days.
Whooo - I scared. What they gonna do? CONTINUE to try to kill Jews? They'll do it anyway.

It is too bad that Yasin is alive. Well, maybe next time...

Exactly. They're just promising to do what they were ALREADY doing two days ago.

He219

09-06-2003, 05:06 PM

Again, the problem (as you know) is not Muslims but muslims who use Islam as an excuse to kill.
I totally agree with citizen-k.

But when the IDF is going to strike at the heart of Hamas, at a meeting of top Hamas officials using an F-16 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3086458.stm) pilot to drop a 550 pound bomb through a third-story window of this building....

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030906/thumb.1062868814.topix_mideast_israel_palestinians_gaz101.jpghttp://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030906/thumb.1062868672.topix_mideast_israel_palestinians_gaz112.jpg
Larger (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030906/168/571g9.html) (left)Larger (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030906/168/571fh.html) (right)

were they not (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20030906/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_542)simultaneously targeting Sheik Ahmed Yassin? I guess there were no gunships to take follow-up shots and Sheik Yassin was allowed to escape....

In the Israeli strike, which Abbas denounced, an Israeli warplane dropped a bomb through the window of a third-story apartment where top Hamas leaders had assembled — to plan more attacks, Israeli officials said.

Yassin was slightly wounded in his right hand, and 15 people were also hurt. Deif, the top fugitive, survived Israel's third attempt on his life; his assistant, Adnan Al-Ghoul, also got away, Israeli security officials said.

The officials said the attack failed because Israel used a smaller bomb to avoid harming civilians. In a July 2002 attack, a warplane dropped a one-ton bomb that killed its target — Hamas military leader Salah Shehadeh — but also 14 bystanders, among them several children, prompting an international outcry.

Bodyguards carried Yassin out of the building and he was driven away in his brown four-wheel drive Land Rover. Yassin surfaced at a Gaza City mosque, where he renewed threats of revenge.

See 'Israel declares all out war (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030902/wl_afp/mideast_030902122819) on Hamas, botched air strike

What do you think?

cut

09-06-2003, 11:45 PM