war protesters checklist

[b33f]

don't know if this cartoon has been posted before, anyway: i like it:
http://www.intellectualactivist.com/cgi-upload/news/news_article/WarProtesterCheckListB1.jpg

i love Cox & Forkum!

[obd]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:

Blinders: To avoid seeing all the body bags and kids with no legs and arms who got that way fighting your war. Also to avoid seeing the Iraqi civilians killed by your war.

Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.

[username]

*cough* propaganda *cough*

[UoUo]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:

Blinders: To avoid seeing all the body bags and kids with no legs and arms who got that way fighting your war. Also to avoid seeing the Iraqi civilians killed by your war.

Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.


Aren't you from britain?

[Wilco]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:

Blinders: To avoid seeing all the body bags and kids with no legs and arms who got that way fighting your war. Also to avoid seeing the Iraqi civilians killed by your war.

Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.



:roll:




Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

I support the war, and I wish to fight the war when I'm old enough, not everyone supports the war and does nothing about it.


Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

What an absolute idiotic comment to make, I hate it when people fly the Confederate flag, it has nothing to do with The United States, that's the past, and you and people like you need to get a hint that not everyone loves the Confederate Flag, infact alot of people don't.

[Flagg]

Aren't you from britain?

Unfortunately, no

If you'd like to have him, I'm sure we could arrange transport...just try and keep him away from the internet.

[noFlooder]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:

Blinders: To avoid seeing all the body bags and kids with no legs and arms who got that way fighting your war. Also to avoid seeing the Iraqi civilians killed by your war.

Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.

Thats kind of funny.
The Comic is not ....

[UoUo]

Aren't you from britain?

Unfortunately, no

If you'd like to have him, I'm sure we could arrange transport...just try and keep him away from the internet.

What?

[mack pl]

Aren't you from britain?

Unfortunately, no

If you'd like to have him, I'm sure we could arrange transport...just try and keep him away from the internet.

What?

hmmm, maybe he's from New Zealand, and Flagg want to send him to Israel ;) :lol:

[Hawkeye]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:

Blinders: To avoid seeing all the body bags and kids with no legs and arms who got that way fighting your war. Also to avoid seeing the Iraqi civilians killed by your war.

Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.

Thats kind of funny.
The Comic is not ....

agreed

[percell_086]

i don't agree, the comic is good ;)

[M1A2U2]

O Wait obd I served in Iraq for six months and I still support the war and am voting for Bush as does everyone else i spoke with that i served with. Some of my closest friends were badly inured and they too know that what we are doing in Iraq is the right thing to do. So maybe you should get a clue and know that we'd rather have people who support our mission rather than people like you who are just out to try and weaken our morale. You will prob ignore this message all together because it completely destroys the point you tried to make but the majority of the armed forces overwhelming supports the president. Sorry to destroy your point.
PS your not the one getting shot at so shut your mouth. People who support us however have a much better reason to state their opinion.

[baker]

O Wait obd I served in Iraq for six months and I still support the war and am voting for Bush as does everyone else i spoke with that i served with. Some of my closest friends were badly inured and they too know that what we are doing in Iraq is the right thing to do. So maybe you should get a clue and know that we'd rather have people who support our mission rather than people like you who are just out to try and weaken our morale. You will prob ignore this message all together because it completely destroys the point you tried to make but the majority of the armed forces overwhelming supports the president. Sorry to destroy your point.
PS your not the one getting shot at so shut your mouth. People who support us however have a much better reason to state their opinion.


Well I also now many soldiers who were in war and totaly agreed with their government and whould have died for it. 70 years later they can't see themselfs in the mirror.... Just a hind.

baker

[Vance]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:

Blinders: To avoid seeing all the body bags and kids with no legs and arms who got that way fighting your war. Also to avoid seeing the Iraqi civilians killed by your war.

Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.
I vote this for the Most Idiotic Post of 2004

[obd]

what do I get if I win Vance?? Can I get a cookie ?

[instantmilkshake]

O Wait obd I served in Iraq for six months and I still support the war and am voting for Bush as does everyone else i spoke with that i served with. Some of my closest friends were badly inured and they too know that what we are doing in Iraq is the right thing to do. So maybe you should get a clue and know that we'd rather have people who support our mission rather than people like you who are just out to try and weaken our morale. You will prob ignore this message all together because it completely destroys the point you tried to make but the majority of the armed forces overwhelming supports the president. Sorry to destroy your point.
PS your not the one getting shot at so shut your mouth. People who support us however have a much better reason to state their opinion.

Hey M1A2u2, tell us more about your experience in Iraq if you don't mind. We get corn fed news about that place, I don't even know what to believe anymore.

[obd]

you know Vance, its morons like yourself who cloak your idiocy in patriotism that actually hurt US national security by supporting wasteful and dangerous wars that have more of a chance of becoming a strategic loss than a voctory.

Meanwhile, while we are stick in a continuosly worsening Iraq, real threats like North Korea and Iran are left alone. Not only that, Iran is left in a perfect position to give us death by a thousand cuts by funding the insurgency in Iraq....which by all accounts including Donald Rimsfeld, they are already doing.

Second, and even worse, Bush's war in Afghanistan was fought using the wring allies to create a never ending war and an incompete victory. The very second US forces leave Pakistan will be back to its old tricks of funding the Taliban. Anyone who has read anything about the Afghan-Soviet war and the post war situation knows that P-stan was actively supporting the Taliban. In fact, much of the armed movement of the Taliban (not all but much) were not even Afghans, but Pakistanis brought out of the religious border schools. So Bush has made allies with a great enemy: Pakistan. He has also out ZERO pressure on Pakistan to end its nuclear program despite repreated evidence that Pakistan is in up to its head in the funneling of illegal nuclear technology to BOTH of our great enemies on the Axis of Evl: Iran and North Korea.

So no, Vance, your blind support of Iraq should be put up for "Misplaced Patriotism of the decade" award. If you were truly a patriot, you woudl educate yourself and support only foreign policy that improves US security and doesnt damage it and create a potential disaster for US prestige. Mark my words, if Iraq turns into a second Vietnam for us, and its almost impossible for it not to unless we are willing to wage war on the entire region and or lose many many thousands more men and women, then America is NEVER going to recover and the radical Islamists will have established a momentum that will make them even harder to defeat globally than they already are.

I believe strongly in assaulting the global threat of radical Islam. Trust me, I may attack Bush and Iraq endlessly, but you will find no stringer patriot than me. I love my country. (no Im not English) I just have different opinions on how best to defend and carry out US strategic interests...........

1. We should have used the imediate 9/11 situation to form an alliance with India against Pakistan. We should have launched pre-emptive and devestating attacks on Pakistan and taken down thier primative and fledgeling nuclear capacity so India could wage a conventional war that Pakistan would be in no position to resist, especially with Ameican forces attacking from the west.

2. At the same time we should have waged a massively destructve campaing in Afghanistan to utterly destroy every sinlge remnant of radical and conservative Islam in the area. That would mean killing several million Afghans.

3. Consolidate positions in Afghanistan and help India incorporate the territory of Pakistan into a new greater India reminicsent of the British Rajh before India was split into P-stan and India. Ounce this in accomplished and P-stan no longer ecxists as a permanent safe haven and arms/manpower supplier for the Taliban, begin a counter insurgency campaign in A-stan and mop them up............



Instead we now ave a situation where the enemy lies undefeated in Afghanistan and now is a resurgent power........The status quo can barely even be maintained in A-stan and violence against US troops has recently been on the rise, fulfilling a pattern seen by the British, Russians, etc of Afghans eventually rising up to kick out foreign forces. Luckily we have done many great things in A-stan and thus greatly delayed this pattern...but you can be sure that its only a matter of time......maybe a long time......but still.....only a matter of time.

Now all you have to do is be maybe 8 years old and able to read a geopolitical map of the middle east to know you DONT want to occupy tha area of Iraq. Iraq is split between 3 major and several minor religious and ethnic groups. It is bordered by nations who have experience interfearing and waging insurgent war in Iraq for decades.

Saudi Arabia does not want democracy in Iraq because it will make thier own dictatorship threatened. They also do not want a ****e controled Iraq on their border so they will of course secretly aid sunni insurgents by refusing to plice thier borders

The Iranians of course want a ****e dominated Iraq. They also want to blody our faces because they feel threats from US troops on thier east and west borders. They have a ready supply of insurgents in the ****e dominated West. Already Washingotn has accused the IRanians of funding the insurgency.

The Turkish govnt also has interests that are against US wishes. As the kurds valiantly supported American Green Berets after the Turks refused as well as giving us vital inteligence between 1991-2004, they very rightly expect us to treat them well and give them their land back. This is something Ankara does not want as it fears the Iraqi Kurds will use the oil wealth in Kirkuk to re-ignight the decades long Kurdish insiurgency in Tukey that has killed tens of thousand.

The Syrians also have a stake in making sure the United States does not succeed in IRaq. As a nominally Bathis regime, they of course were opposesed to us eliminating Bathist Saddam. In fact, a huge number of Syrians have been killed and captures despite requests for them to secure thier borders which they have shown ZERO inclination to do with any real meaining.

So there you have it, we are in a position ten times worse than Vietnam. We are trying to occupy a nation ripe for civil war with ethinice an religious tension boiling over surrounded by nations on all sides oppossed in many ways to our goals............Iraq is ready made for a US humiliation and defeat.........and guess who got us there: Bush.

Thats why I hate the man so much. Thats why I am against the war. Not because I hate America. I am an American. It is in my interest to make sure we are secure. I dont feel Iraq has made us secure. On the contrary I feel it has set us up for probably the worst defeat in the nations history, more humiliating and less recoverable even then Vietnam.........and it makes me sad.

[GrimmyRX]

don't know if this cartoon has been posted before, anyway: i like it:
http://www.intellectualactivist.com/cgi-upload/news/news_article/WarProtesterCheckListB1.jpg

i love Cox & Forkum!

Hmmm, I dunno, I'm fairly liberal (not the party) and

1) I don't even HAVE sunglasses
2) I'm kinda soft spoken
3) I ain't never wearing a scaft
4) I don't like signs
5) only time I wear ear plugs is on the range
6) the only flag I wear is a Canadian one.

So, it's not a very accurete comic is it? What? You mean it's not suppose to be? It's suppose to be satire?

Oh hell, the why do you guys have it up the ass for obd's first little commentary on it?

[Tengu]

hehe nice comic

[meni0n]

I wonder, what if the draft comes back and you're drafted obd, what will you do? Then talk about being patriotic.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

PS your not the one getting shot at so shut your mouth. People who support us however have a much better reason to state their opinion.

Someone who agrees with you has more right to express there opinion then someone else? What happened to the "land of the free home of the brave"? Sure doesnt sound like it...

Fact is people are going to express there opinions...its a "You hear mine now and I'll hear you're later" kind of thing. If you dont like it, don't say anything. As everyones allowed to make up there own mind, or are they?

[scattergun]

After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

You're right, 1,000 dead is nothing, relatively. 291,557 Americans gave their lives in battle in WWII, 214,938 died in battle in the U.S. Civil War......shall I go on? The fact that the public has lost taste for combat deaths is unfortunate, but of little consequence.

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

George W. might be a born-again Christian, but I don't think it's Christians that are using religion as an excuse to kill innocent people.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

I guess by that you mean Mr. Kerry would have a clue?

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Showing your true colors, so to speak.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.

The millions of muslims in the world are the sheep, you clueless idiot. What do you think the purpose of religion is from a political standpoint? It's control. Let me say that slowly C....O....N....T....R....O....L over the masses.

So, get your head out of your ass and contribute, or begone.

[BlackRain]

"When you men get home and face an anti -war protester, look him in the eye and shake his hand. Then wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she is dating a pussy."

-General Tommy Franks, commander Operation Iraqi Freedom

[Knutsen]

"When you men get home and face an anti -war protester, look him in the eye and shake his hand. Then wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she is dating a pussy."


Wow, real macho!!
Btw, i don't get one point, a pro-war make a cartoon about a protester and it's really funny, then obd makes his vision of a pro-war and it's stupid, offensive.... blah blah blah.

I don't get it, excuse me but my european liberal mind don't let me understand the reason of this double-moral.

[Geezah]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:


Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.



What an absolute idiotic comment to make, I hate it when people fly the Confederate flag, it has nothing to do with The United States, that's the past, and you and people like you need to get a hint that not everyone loves the Confederate Flag, infact alot of people don't.

Actually the Civil war wasn't fought over slaves as many would have you believe and flying the Confederate flag doesn't just mean you're a racist.

To some, they still have stong blood line ties to the Confederate States of America and there were black soldiers that fought on the side of the Confedrates.


The Black Confederate Soldier (http://www.patriotist.com/black-soldier.htm)

[Flagg]

UoUo wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Quote:
Aren't you from britain?


Unfortunately, no

If you'd like to have him, I'm sure we could arrange transport...just try and keep him away from the internet.


What?


hmmm, maybe he's from New Zealand, and Flagg want to send him to Israel

Somebody, anybody...take obd off our hands

[Trigger]

PS your not the one getting shot at so shut your mouth. People who support us however have a much better reason to state their opinion.

Someone who agrees with you has more right to express there opinion then someone else? What happened to the "land of the free home of the brave"? Sure doesnt sound like it... No, someone who's been there has a more accurate opinion that the lead forum troll who's only read about it.

Fact is people are going to express there opinions and be told when those opinions are all f**ked up....its a "You hear mine now and I'll hear you're later" kind of thing. If you dont like it, don't say anything. What happened to the "land of the free home of the brave"? Sure doesnt sound like it... As everyones allowed to make up there own mind, or are they? Yes they are. M1A2U2 made up his mind that obd is full of ****. I happen to agree. If you don't like it, don't say anything.
You do pick strange places to stick your nose. :|

[Sir Zach of R.]

what do I get if I win Vance?? Can I get a cookie ?

*15 dozen egg cartons opening in background* Maybe.

Get ready guys. hehe.

[Knutsen]

Someone who agrees with you has more right to express there opinion then someone else? What happened to the "land of the free home of the brave"? Sure doesnt sound like it... No, someone who's been there has a more accurate opinion that the lead forum troll who's only read about it.

Fact is people are going to express there opinions and be told when those opinions are all f**ked up....its a "You hear mine now and I'll hear you're later" kind of thing. If you dont like it, don't say anything. What happened to the "land of the free home of the brave"? Sure doesnt sound like it... As everyones allowed to make up there own mind, or are they? Yes they are. M1A2U2 made up his mind that obd is full of ****. I happen to agree. If you don't like it, don't say anything.

I see some kind of democratic attitude here.... This is the kind of attitude some powerful guys had years ago and ended burning people. So man, if you're sooo in favour of democracy and freedom and all those blah blah blah you use to justify a war you're showing your lack of it.


Btw, M1's opinion is as valid as someone's opinion who have been there not in a military way (i'm not talking about this particular thread). So please respect the views of the people

[Knutsen]

George W. might be a born-again Christian, but I don't think it's Christians that are using religion as an excuse to kill innocent people.

Bush said it was his mission cause God told him to do it. I'm afraid i don't remember when he said that, i hope some of the posters remember.
So what's the difference here? Some stupid m ***** thinks Allah sent him to fight the infidels and then if people follows him is a matter of religion, but then Bush says something similar and people follow him but it's not a matter of religion but a matter of freedom and to improve the world etc etc....
Who is the sheep? you decide man, both sides are sheep or none are sheep but i don't accept the answer : "Muslims are sheep, we are freedom fighters"

[CavScout113]

"When you men get home and face an anti -war protester, look him in the eye and shake his hand. Then wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she is dating a pussy."

-General Tommy Franks, commander Operation Iraqi Freedom

- Thats absolutely priceless :)


M1 has got a good point, but I don't think he's explaining it the way he means to. He's not saying that people should not be able to voice their opinions, all he is saying is that someone who has been in Iraq serving their country has one helluva better idea what their talking about when it comes to the welfare of soldiers and all of these servicepeople that are supposedly "caught in the middle".

I say this because that is the first thing that 9 out of 10 protestors say: "Our soldiers are dying for a worthless cause....blah blah blah blah."
Just a few problems with this type of mentality:

1) Soldiers understand the risk in what they do, they also dont care. Any of them that you find saying things to the contrary should never have had a job in the military in the first place.

2) I've heard so much BS about Iraq being a worthless cause. This is a very rediculous proposition, considering that Saddam's Iraq was responsible for the death of over half a million people, and responsible for the repression of the entire population.

Im sure you're going to say this in your reply, so Ill hit it now...
"Well what about all of the other countries that have dictators that are slaughtering people in Africa?" - However, Ill wait till you whine to reply.


Last thing coming....

Last night I was at the gas station buying a pack of smokes. This guy walks up in an Army patrol cap that has captains rank on it, and dogtags around his neck. I knew he wasn't in the Army, but I thought I'd ask before I bitched him out. Anywho, after he said no, I gave him **** for wearing something that represents HONOR, SELFLESS SERVICE, and PERSONAL COURAGE regardless of how its used by any political administration.
Being the typical protestor: underinformed and undereducated (resting most of his political theory on the bull**** that he hears in conversation with his pals, and BBC headlines) I knew he didnt understand. Protest the war, but not the people. Wear a sign, not my goddamned uniform.

ITS NOT THAT YOU VOICE YOUR OPINION, ITS HOW.

[Knutsen]

CavScout113, i agree with you in the points about M1 and soldiers serving but let me tell you something.
What about Operation Condor? What about Pinochet? What about Videla? they were dictators who killed thousands of people. And the US put them in charge (funny how Kissinger got Nobel Prize of Peace, and Arafat....).
We all know that these kind of dictators should be removed but it's kinda naive to still think the US went to iraq just for the good intentions.

[Knutsen]

Being the typical protestor: underinformed and undereducated (resting most of his political theory on the bull**** that he hears in conversation with his pals, and BBC headlines) I knew he didnt understand. Protest the war, but not the people. Wear a sign, not my goddamned uniform.



dangerous generalisation. You're assuming that millions of Americans, hundreds of millions of europeans and almost all the muslim population are underinformed and undereducated.

[CavScout113]

Let me address this point by point.

First off, I never said that we (US) went to war on purely good intentions, what I said was...
2) I've heard so much BS about Iraq being a worthless cause. This is a very rediculous proposition, considering that Saddam's Iraq was responsible for the death of over half a million people, and responsible for the repression of the entire population.

It should be known during conversations like these that absolutely NO COUNTRY in the world has a benevolent agenda. Its not possible and is contrary to the entire history of functional political theory. The idea of a country came about because people wanted to band together in order to protect themselves. Aside from all of that smoke filled, coffee house crap about "citizens of the world," this is still true today. Governments are not concerned with helping the international community, they are concerned with the standard of living inside their own country.
Did we go to war motivated by benefit? Yes. Of Course. Why the hell else would we go to war? (Why don't protestors, when citing German and French refusal to support the war, look toward the contracts that major companies in those countries had to sell raw materials and equipment to the government of Iraq.)

However, this still doesn't change the fact that good came out of what we did.

2 - As far as the uneducated protestor, look to the violent (and supposedly ANTI-violence) protests that were spearheaded by the anti-war movement. I know that this was not the intention, but here's my point. The people that plan these protests and movements are intelligent, but most of their support is not. They generally follow the ravings and rants of those that are associated with the social group they find most comfortable and desirable.
Also, look to the point of the statement. So many of these people end up protesting soldiers (Vietnam comes to mind) instead of the war. To make it clear, I have plenty of peers and others around me that I absolutely respect, that would not support this war in a million years. However, they understand that soldiers are not to blame, nor should they be harrassed in any way. By this guy wearing pieces of an Army uniform in protest, he successfully demonstrated his stupidity and disrespect for citizens (in the true sense).

[Vioman]

I'll take off my hat and shake hands with a vet from Iraq or any other places where foreign soldiers have served as a volunteer, any day.
Most of these posts made about how bad it is about having foreign forces in a country somewhere, and they should'nt be there etc...makes me cringe.
What do people know? Why even make fun about it?
Sometimes I suspect them to be like the coward in school, watching the bully beat up the guy with glasses, and when a good guy steps in to take out the bully, he will be named to the principal...by the coward. anonymously of course.
No matter how much whine we get from people who just dont know enough facts, don't know how much good that comes from those operations, I will forever admire the men who kiss their loved ones goodbye and go to a place where they might never return from.

True heroes in my eyes.

[Knutsen]

cav, agree with you. I'm against this war but i respect the soldiers.
But about the protestors i don't think you¡re right. Of course there are violent ones but they are merely a minority. I've been to large demonstrations and my experience tells me this violent protestors are usually less than 200 or 300. The problem is that with their actions they people take notice of them easily and when they do something violent obviously police act, but the rest of people run so outsiders get the wrong impression of violent protests. This is my experience in several cities. I don't know in the US but i bet things are not that different.

This violence is just stupid, it doesn't benefit anyone, in fact is bad for the interests of pacific demonstrators.

[walford]

http://www.pickeringcreek.com/protesterbreasts.jpg

http://www.johnnypnews.com/On%20the%20Warpath%20with%20the%20Protest%20Warriors.htm
Are they in any way worried about reaction from the protesters? "They don't want to attack us," Alan said, "they don't want to hit us back, they just want to run."

I am watching an A.N.S.W.E.R. security volunteer shoving people. He is also destroying signs the counter-protesters are holding. The counter-protesters are yelling at the security volunteers, and asking anyone to take pictures of what is occurring. I run over and begin taking pictures of the event. The security people ripping up the signs are pulled away by other A.N.S.W.E.R. volunteers.

I notice more A.N.S.W.E.R. security people have come and are forming a line in front of the counter-protesters holding yellow tape. The man I saw destroying signs is now among them. They are being verbally abusive, cussing at the counter-protesters, calling them Nazis, telling them to leave. One counter-protester is screaming at the A.N.S.W.E.R. people that they assaulted his pregnant wife (I learn later that a pregnant counter-protester was shoved to the ground, and pushed by the security people even after they were told she is pregnant). Others are threatening charges for assault (none were filed). Some say they are going for the police.

...He continues asking me my name, aggressively, repeatedly. His tone and demeanor are menacing. I tell him my first name again. He asks my last name; I lie and tell him my last name is Smith. "Bull----," he says.
I place the camera to my face in order to take his picture. I am struck by his hand and the camera as he slaps the camera away, preventing my shot. The camera falls on the ground and is closer to him than me, he kicks it towards me.

I ask the other A.N.S.W.E.R. people there the same questions, none will respond. Around me, counter-protesters are arguing with security people. The man who says his pregnant wife was assaulted is next to me, yelling at the security people. The security people then begin to shove as a group, trying to physically eject the counter-protesters. The counter-protesters stand fast.

http://utopia-unmasked.us/counter-demo2003.10-25.htm
Upon questioning, Park Police spokesman Sergeant Scott Fear explained that a permitted demonstration group has no authority to have their own private security team physically force unwelcome participants away. Doing so would constitute assault, he added. Instead, he explained, they must inform the police who have sole discretion as to how the situation would be handled.
The A.N.S.W.E.R. security personnel begin pushing the group as it is exiting. Our group is now being pushed out of the park, in view of the U.S. Park Police, who do not intervene. I ask the A.N.S.W.E.R. people repeatedly if they consider what they are doing as suppressing free speech. They do not comment.

As we are pushed into Constitution Avenue, a middle-aged woman appears between the two groups.
" This is ridicules," she screams, "I am a mother, and a college professor. I hold a PhD and I defy you to tell me how they are being disruptive, or where on their signs it says they are Nazis. Oh, I get it; you are too stupid to figure their signs out."

She continues to scold the A.N.S.W.E.R. folks until ushered away by other A.N.S.W.E.R. people. I am told later that upon leaving she announced she would no longer support the group International A.N.S.W.E.R.

http://www.johnnypnews.com/NYCprotestclash.htm
“Halfway through the end of the march, we were attacked by some security badge wearing hippies (some of us were physically assaulted) and forced to the side. Many of the liberals stopped to call us Nazis’, racists, etc.,” said Levy, a counter protester from West Hartford, Connecticut who was assaulted. “I was hit, pushed and had my life threatened, the so-called "peace" protesters had anything but peace on their minds,” he said.

Bonnie, also from West Hartford, Connecticut said she was walking with the counter-protesters when she noticed that people wearing badges with the word security written on them had linked arms in order to block the path of the counter-protesters. "I was able to get past the people with the linked arms and had gotten ahead of the other counter-protesters when these two grown men came up to me and started pushing me, trying to get me over to the side of the road," she said. "I don't look intimidating at all," Bonnie said, "all I was doing was carrying an American flag."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/23/103214.shtml
...Drake's mother was "harassed and yelled at, booed and hissed, [and] told her son died for nothing."

Mrs. Drake reportedly left the event in tears. Afterward, Drake's sister told NBC News 5 that the family thought some of the crowd was blatantly hostile to those who had sacrificed their lives while serving their country.

Lon Burnam, director of the Dallas Peace Center, said the event was not intended to be an anti-war rally, but acknowledged that e-mail notifications of the vigil were sent to a broad audience that might have included a few militants...

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/nyc-atta0901,0,2447865.story?coll=ny-nynews-headlines

...Det. William Sample was knocked off his scooter Monday night after driving into a crowd of protesters on Eighth Avenue near 29th Street, then kicked and punched by a man until rendered unconscious.

The attacker snuck away through a throng of police, escaping even after an the officer grabbed him and pushed him back into the crowd.

Sample was taken to St. Vincent's Hospital and may have suffered a concussion in what Police Commissioner Ray Kelly called a "blatant, vicious attack."

But officials from the New York Civil Liberties Union said police tactics exacerbated an already volatile situation.

"There was a complete lack of flexibility and communication," said Christopher Dunn, NYCLU associate legal director.

Paul Browne, a police spokesman, retorted, "citing communication as a rationale for the vicious beating of an officer is mind-boggling."

The clash began when police attempted to place metal barriers across the intersection around 8 p.m. but didn't announce what they were doing, said Alex Vitale, an NYCLU consultant. Protesters assumed they were going to be arrested and linked arms to block the barriers, Vitale said.

Two dozen police in riot gear then rushed in, followed by the officers wearing regular clothes on unmarked scooters. Vitale said only after some of the protesters were injured by the scooters was the officer attacked.

"Use of these pens is a potential flash-point for confrontation," Vitale said.

Browne said the protesters, marching for Poor People's Economic Human Rights Campaign, gathered at Dag Hammarskjold Plaza at E. 47th and Second Avenue Monday and wanted to march even though they didn't have a permit. Police accommodated them and even provided an escort.

When police tried to place barriers to allow emergency vehicles cross-town access, protesters grabbed the barriers and threw one of them at the officers, Browne said. Sample was hurt coming to those officers' aid.

The placement of barriers on the south side of an intersection is designed to avoid penning in protesters, Browne said, and was lauded by protest organizers, including the NYCLU, at an anti-war protest in March...

[M1A2U2]

obd you have failed to respond to what i said just like i predicted.

[OB Kenobi]

"When you men get home and face an anti -war protester, look him in the eye and shake his hand. Then wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she is dating a pussy."

-General Tommy Franks, commander Operation Iraqi Freedom

You mean IF you get home. Or if you've still got a hand to shake with. ~7,000 weren't so lucky, Tommy Franks doesn't like to talk about THAT part. I guess it's pointless mentioning the close to 20,000 Iraqis that died, I mean, they're our enemy, so **** 'em?

No one wants to belittle the sacrifice of those that had to go over to Iraq, willingly or unwillingly, they themselves aren't going to want to sit around thinking "I did this over a bunch of lies," but for the sake of any more people that this might happen to, we need to get our troops out of that hellhole, because it's going to stay the way it is regardless of anything we do. There's nothing to consider a win over there, except maybe oil. If you think that's worth fighting for, be my guest, just don't talk for anyone else that might want to be home right now instead of being shot at by some Iraqi kid with an AK.

[CavScout113]

OB Kenobi, While your response was entertaining, it was largely false and inconclusive.

How are you saying that nothing will change in Iraq regardless of what we do?
Obviously you haven't examined the situation closely. First off, of course a general is not going to stand there and blather on about the casualties in Iraq. That would be like handing out bodybags to soldiers before they even got there. The effect on overall morale of the troops? Good lord, those men don't need to hear that crap before they have to go and do their jobs, they already have a bad enough idea from talking to fellow soldiers returning from Iraq. (Your numbers for dead American soldiers are also LARGELY incorrect, but thats beside the point)

Think about this: even if we use your numbers, 7,000 and 20,000, thats a hell of a lot better than the near 500,000 claimed by Saddam's regime in the first place, isn't it?
Furthermore, you are looking at a piece of paper without flipping it over to check the other side. Mostly because you and a lot of others never hear about the rebuilding, stabilization, security and humanitarian aid that is happening in Iraq as we speak. Its understandable with the news focused 90% on death and destruction, and 10% on trivial bull**** that nobody cares to hear.

And as far as me speaking for other soldiers, you're just flat wrong. Of course soldiers don't WANT to go over to Iraq or any other place where they might get shot. However, we aren't paying them to hang around stateside and train all day without ever going anywhere. That's their job: To risk their ass where they are told to. They understand, accept and mostly don't care about the risk they are taking. Matter of fact, most of the NCO's (Non-Commisioned Officers) in the US Army WANT to go, because its what they have trained on for the better part of 12 years.

Not everybody likes to go through life with safety nets dangling on everything you do, with luxuries like TV dinners, Banana Republic and Starbucks Mocha-Frappuchino, Super-Non-Fat Soy-Vanilla-Steamers defining who we are. Some people, myself included, prefer to live bound by certain loyalties and principles like honor, devoting ourself to the service of a people, a country, and a way of life.

[Knutsen]

Not everybody likes to go through life with safety nets dangling on everything you do, with luxuries like TV dinners, Banana Republic and Starbucks Mocha-Frappuchino, Super-Non-Fat Soy-Vanilla-Steamers defining who we are. Some people, myself included, prefer to live bound by certain loyalties and principles like honor, devoting ourself to the service of a people, a country, and a way of life.You can't impose your lifestyle to others. Simple as that.
The fact is that the US invaded a foreign and fully sovereign country. And those 'freedom' 'democracy' 'western values' are just pure excuses to hide an imperialist and capitalist invasion. The US wanted Iraq for their own benefit and that's just awful.


Think about this: even if we use your numbers, 7,000 and 20,000, thats a hell of a lot better than the near 500,000 claimed by Saddam's regime in the first place, isn't it?

What about the estimated 800,000 dead caused by the US sponsored embargo?

[Trigger]

Not everybody likes to go through life with safety nets dangling on everything you do, with luxuries like TV dinners, Banana Republic and Starbucks Mocha-Frappuchino, Super-Non-Fat Soy-Vanilla-Steamers defining who we are. Some people, myself included, prefer to live bound by certain loyalties and principles like honor, devoting ourself to the service of a people, a country, and a way of life.You can't impose your lifestyle to others. Simple as that.
The fact is that the US invaded a foreign and fully sovereign country. And those 'freedom' 'democracy' 'western values' are just pure excuses to hide an imperialist and capitalist invasion. The US wanted Iraq for their own benefit and that's just awful. Riiiiiiight. That darn Mojave desert just isn't enough for us. No, we had to have Iraq. You can never have 'too much' sand.


Think about this: even if we use your numbers, 7,000 and 20,000, thats a hell of a lot better than the near 500,000 claimed by Saddam's regime in the first place, isn't it?


What about the estimated 800,000 dead caused by the US sponsored embargo? You'll have to ask Saddam about that. There wouldn't have been sanctions...or WAR if he had done what THE WORLD asked.

[achilles]

Is that so Trigger? If Saddam wasnt there sacntions would naver have taken place right?
Wrong...just because you got the causality of the whole issue wrong...as Knutsen very well said the sanctions were actually US induced and i find it really pathetic and hypocritical to talk about UN sanctions...so Saddam did not cause sanctions but rather external factors caused it...now trying to put the blame elsewhere in an indirect way makes no point really...
Besides, the sanctions worked against the Iraqi people...from as far as i know Saddam continuted to live luxuriously even after the sanctions had been posed.


or WAR if he had done what THE WORLD asked.

The world have asked something like that? I must have been living in another planet when this happened...
Iraq is your problem bud...as well as silamic terror...you actions created it and now your actoins should try and resolve it...dont 'confuse' the WORLD with the US

[Trigger]

Is that so Trigger? If Saddam wasnt there sacntions would naver have taken place right?
Wrong...just because you got the causality of the whole issue wrong...as Knutsen very well said the sanctions were actually US induced No the sanctions were Saddam induced after Desert Storm...or did that slip your mind? and i find it really pathetic and hypocritical to talk about UN sanctions... Why, because it blows your nonsense out of the water?so Saddam did not cause sanctions but rather external factors caused it... External factors like Saddam invading Kuwait.now trying to put the blame elsewhere in an indirect way makes no point really...
Besides, the sanctions worked against the Iraqi people...from as far as i know Saddam continuted to live luxuriously even after the sanctions had been posed. Thanks for proving my point. As I said: Saddam should answer for the suffering of his people.


or WAR if he had done what THE WORLD asked.

The world have asked something like that? I must have been living in another planet when this happened... Apparently so.
Iraq is your problem bud...as well as silamic terror... Tell that to the Spanish, the Australians, the Malaysians, the Philippines and everyone else affected by islamic terror. you actions created it and now your actoins should try and resolve it...dont 'confuse' the WORLD with the US What's confusing? Does the UN represent 'the WORLD' or not? They passed sanctions. The sanctions were acted on. End of debate.

[BlackRain]

I guess it's pointless mentioning the close to 20,000 Iraqis that died, I mean, they're our enemy, so f*** 'em?

The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his. ~ General George S. Patton



No one wants to belittle the sacrifice of those that had to go over to Iraq, willingly or unwillingly, they themselves aren't going to want to sit around thinking "I did this over a bunch of lies," but for the sake of any more people that this might happen to, we need to get our troops out of that hellhole, because it's going to stay the way it is regardless of anything we do. There's nothing to consider a win over there, except maybe oil. If you think that's worth fighting for, be my guest, just don't talk for anyone else that might want to be home right now instead of being shot at by some Iraqi kid with an AK.

OB, you really don't know what the hell you are talking about. The morale is very high for the troops in Iraq. They only are upset about the way the anti-war crowd [e.g. Michael Moore, Mainstream Media, et al] have portrayed them.

If the troops are so upset with George Bush and his "War For Oil"; then why are combat vets reenlisting above expectations? Why, because these men are patriots and are selflessly serving their country.

Here are some stories for you to ponder:

Reserve Component Reenlistments Exceed Expectations (http://www.kcentv.com/news/c-article.php?cid=5&nid=371)

CAMP FOSTER, OKINAWA, Japan —(Sept. 12, 2004) -- First-term Marines wishing to reenlist in fiscal year 2004 will have to run to their career planners and submit their reenlistment packages by Sept. 29 in order fight for the 150 spots left in the Marine Corps.

The goal for the Marine Corps in FY04 was 5,974 reenlistments, and 5,992 Marines have already submitted their reenlistment packages, according to Gunnery Sgt. Robert E. Griffith, a career retention specialist with Headquarters and Service Battalion, Marine Corps Base Camp Butler.

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/0/4AF042B285F0D77485256F1000807648?opendocument

Army says 2004 recruiting goals have been reached
By ERICA WALSH

As final numbers were tallied, an official said Monday that the U.S. Army should meet its recruiting goals for the fourth consecutive year.

The Fiscal Year 2004 recruiting term ended Monday and United States Army Recruiting Command public affairs officer Doug Smith said the command came in "a little ahead" of its objectives.

The Army sought to enlist 77,000 active Army soldiers and 21,200 reservists in fiscal year 2004.

http://www.newsenterpriseonline.com/articles/2004/09/28/news/news4.txt


Does this seem like the response from a nation and military that believes what you believe? Of course not. You are the very definition of a contrarian.

[walford]

You can't impose your lifestyle to others. Simple as that.
OH yes.
- Raping wives in front of husbands
- throwing babies against walls in front of their mothers
- filling hundreds of mass graves
- flooding marshes to attain ethnic cleansing
- gassing thousands of men, women and children
- feeding people alive feet first into plastic shredders
- paying suicide bombers' families $25K for killing Israelis
- having an airliner in country as practice for hijackings
- repeatedly vowing war with the United States and Israel
- buying weapons and building palaces instead of feeding the people
- starting two wars, etc. etc. etc.
is simply an equally valid alternate lifestyle.

The fact is that the US invaded a foreign and fully sovereign country.
The fact that it was not legitimized by a popular mandate made it sovererign, eh? The fact that it had to resort to the above tactics hold itself in power makes it's sovereignty worth respecting? It is not possible to contain, appease or otherwise live in peace with dictatorships because the mere existence of tyranny guarantees war. Tyranny IS war.

And those 'freedom' 'democracy' 'western values' are just pure excuses to hide an imperialist and capitalist invasion. The US wanted Iraq for their own benefit and that's just awful.
It is so awful that instead of going in and laying waste to the country as you imply, 2500 schools have been opened, post Saddam. Thousands of metric tons of goods have been shipped in to rebuild the country after years of neglect. If we are as evil as you say, we sure aren't doing a good job of it.

Just consider the world you and yours would be living in right now if not for the United States of America. 5...4...3...2...1


Think about this: even if we use your numbers, 7,000 and 20,000, thats a hell of a lot better than the near 500,000 claimed by Saddam's regime in the first place, isn't it?
What about the estimated 800,000 dead caused by the US sponsored embargo?
Ya got me there.

The first President Bush was a big UN supporter and chose to allow them to set the objective for the first Gulf War. Given that most of the UN member states are dictatorships, regime change was out of the question. The last thing they would permit would be the installation of democracy.

In war, there are 3 choices: victory, surrender or a continuation of war. The UN sanctions regime was in effect a continuation of war, because victory [removing Saddam] was eliminated as an option. The Iraqi people suffered during that 12-year phase of the war.

The deaths that occurred under the UN sanctions regime were blamed upon the US anyway, weren't they? So much for doing it the UN's way. If the UN would have approved Saddam's forcible removal, it would still have been mostly American troops carrying the bulk of the work and the US would have been blamed for everything that went wrong and given no credit for anything that went right.

So what's the difference? As we all know, the French, Germans, Russians would never have approved Saddam's forcible removal. They were making too much money supplying him weapons, building his palaces and bunkers and didn't care spit about the suffering of the Iraqi people.

And yet it is the United States that is the locus of all evil.

[Yosy]

Iraq War Supporter Checklist:

Blinders: To avoid seeing all the body bags and kids with no legs and arms who got that way fighting your war. Also to avoid seeing the Iraqi civilians killed by your war.

Ear Plugs: So you can ignore military profesionals and keep supporting the war no matter what and as long as you dont have to fight it yourself. After all, 1,000 dead is nothing right?

Chanting: so you can invoke the name of Jesus to sanctify killing innocent people and ignore that fact that good men are dying for a bad cause.

Sign: for displaying total evasions of facts on the ground and blind support for Bush.

Flag: U.S. flag, right under your Confederate flag.

Cross: To show your complete inability to think for yourself. You are part of the flock of sheep.

Thats kind of funny.
The Comic is not ....

agreed

Same here

[Sayeret]

OB Kenobi wrote:

You mean IF you get home. Or if you've still got a hand to shake with. ~7,000 weren't so lucky, Tommy Franks doesn't like to talk about THAT part. I guess it's pointless mentioning the close to 20,000 Iraqis that died, I mean, they're our enemy, so f*** 'em?

The people in the military know what they have gotten themselves into. Yes, there is a danger in Iraq but it is far less than you make it seem. Consider that 60,000 people die each year in the US alone from car accidents. Fewer than 1,500 soldiers have been killed in the last three years. The Russians lost nearly 800 men, 20 tanks, 102 armored vehicles in sixty hours in one battle in Grozny and your acting like the US is losing the war when they have almost complete control in Iraq and lose around two people a day.

OB here's a few questions for you

-Do you consider terrorism a threat or is it all a made up thing conceived by Bush?

-If Iraq is not successful is there any war you would consider so?

-Do you believe the Al Qaeda just wants a home and wants to be left alone from the US?

-Do you support the Iraqi insurgents?

-Do you consider targetting children a legitimate military tactic?

-Do you consider beheading unarmed civilians a legitimate tactic?

-Do you consider al-Zaqarwi a honorable and righteous man?

-Finally do you consider Bin Laden a righteous man, everyone should aspire to be like?

Knutson wrote:

The fact is that the US invaded a foreign and fully sovereign country. And those 'freedom' 'democracy' 'western values' are just pure excuses to hide an imperialist and capitalist invasion. The US wanted Iraq for their own benefit and that's just awful.

The US didn't invade Iraq to force them to become democratic, why would they invade Iraq for those reasons. If they wanted to do that why not invade a weaker country? If the US was out for oil why not invade Saudi Arabia or Mexico.


What about the estimated 800,000 dead caused by the US sponsored embargo?

Do you have any link for that because its real easy to say things like that.


You can't impose your lifestyle to others. Simple as that.

This is excluding the Soviets, Nazis, Communist Chinese, Saudi Arabians, Mongolians, Romans, Greeks, Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, British, Spanish, Portugese, right?

[Knutsen]

This is excluding the Soviets, Nazis, Communist Chinese, Saudi Arabians, Mongolians, Romans, Greeks, Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, British, Spanish, Portugese, right?

And???? Does that makes US invasion right??? Come on let's rape this girl, my neighbour has already done it


Quote:
What about the estimated 800,000 dead caused by the US sponsored embargo?

Do you have any link for that because its real easy to say things like that.
Von Sponeck ( i can't remember his name). The man in charge of the UN in Iraq 2000-2004.


Just consider the world you and yours would be living in right now if not for the United States of America. 5...4...3...2...1
Just consider what would the US be without the help of Spain and France.....but what would have been of Spain and France without the romans??......and the romans without the australopithecus...????
The US has done great things in the past but we don't have to be thanking them everyday for that.


The fact that it was not legitimized by a popular mandate made it sovererign, eh? The fact that it had to resort to the above tactics hold itself in power makes it's sovereignty worth respecting? It is not possible to contain, appease or otherwise live in peace with dictatorships because the mere existence of tyranny guarantees war. Tyranny IS war.
Ehm....... what about Pinochet? Videla?? the coup in Iran in 1953???? These countries were perfectly soverign for the US then...
And a sovereign country is not necessarily a democratic country .

[Knutsen]

Von Sponeck ( i can't remember his name). The man in charge of the UN in Iraq 2000-2004.
Sorry, it's 1996-2000

[mi35d]

Ahhh, hypocrisy!

Ya see,

Clinton sending troops into harms way was o.k. (Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Haiti) because that was the right thing to do.

Kennedy sending troops into harms ay was o.k. (Viet Nam, Cuba) because that was the right thing to do.

Johnson sending troops into harms way o.k. (Dominican Republic, Viet Nam) because that was the right thing to do.

Truman sending troops into harms way was o.k. (Korea) because that was the right thing to do.

On and on and on...

If it's a democrat - sure fine okie dokie.

If its a republican - evil, corporate greed for the worst of reasons, blah, blah, blah.

[OnTheRocks]

People who support us however have a much better reason to state their opinion.

lmfao
thats the most idiotic thing I have ever read at MP.net so far
you people.... rofl

[Yosy]

Johnson sending troops into harms way o.k. (Dominican Republic, Viet Nam) because that was the right thing to do.


:cantbeli:

Since when Vietnam was a "right thing to do"?