New Polish equipment to be sent to Iraq (Presentation)

[Marmot1]

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0001.jpg
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http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0024.jpg

[Herrmannek]

very nice pics....

[Kern]

Nice Pics.....but I don't see why they would be taking this to Iraq.

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0014.jpg

[Marmot1]

Nice Pics.....but I don't see why they would be taking this to Iraq.

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0014.jpg

C'mon little paint and it will be like new... ;)

[Herrmannek]

Nice Pics.....but I don't see why they would be taking this to Iraq.

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0014.jpg

for patrolings is as good as armored hummer, honkers are totaly soft skined of course if havent on mind exactly that piece :)...

[Kern]

Definitely meant that particular piece....har d har har....or this one.

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0018.jpg

[Catch22]

This old BRDM was a target for RPGs today - Army wanted to show to reporters how much threat they could be against lightly armored vechicles. PG7 grenade (most popular type) was fired from 150 meters.
I was there today and yesterday - presentation included dynamic demonstration (including atack on convoy, MEDEVAC by Mi8 and CSAR from Mi24 and W3, Presentation of new individual equipment and transports, and some firing with a range of weapons from assault rilfes (EOTech sights), Sako TRG 21, Hecate and WKW Wilk 12,7 up to ZUR 23-2 truck mounted. I'll send some of my pics tommorow.

Edit: This SKOT (OT-64) APC was blown up by AT mine combined with IED as a part of a demonstration. Other military truck was torn to pieceby 60kg TNT IED on the same range - it gave press some idea how powerfull it can be.

[Kern]

Awesome data - lucky you to be onsite and witnessing the demo.

So are those Landy's that they are driving in some of these pics and is that armor paneling on the side here?

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0006.jpg

[Herrmannek]

not landys. Honkers quite similiar type of cars but polish... And I don't know what that rag is...

[Catch22]

Rubber skirts on this Zbik (Lynx) recon vehicle are improvised additional protection against RPGs. Some of it was tested but we eventually would use 'Stryker-style cages" as seen below on "Szakal+" also a BRDM 2 clone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/c22Szakal.jpg

[Maciek]

not landys. Honkers quite similiar type of cars but polish... And I don't know what that rag is...

anti-dust/sand

[Kern]

Thanks to Poland for sticking tough with us over there.

[Fee Fi Fo Fum]

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0014.jpg

perfect quote....


Oooopsie Daisy!

his leg makes that perfect... p-)

[Kern]

Thanks for the info fellow Suntori drinker.....

[Catch22]

No problem Kern - "For relaxing times...make it Suntory time" ;)

As for the "Ooopsie Daisy" man - he's general Edward Pietrzyk, Land Forces Chief Commander. We took this IR reflector you can see near him at the ground a while later ;) As I promised I'll give you some soon.

[REMOV]

...one more...

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/2303/z2303941G.jpg

[REMOV]

We took this IR reflector you can see near him at the ground a while laterYou came, saw and broke? ;)

[Catch22]

Actually it was one dude from "Strzał" who took it not me if anybody asked... ;)

[username]

Nice Pics.....but I don't see why they would be taking this to Iraq.

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0014.jpg

poland is preparing to fight fire with fire.....they are gonna start using suicide bombers, but the trouble is that can't seem to find any trrops with experiance in this method of fighting :lol: :lol:

[Marmot1]

Nice Pics.....but I don't see why they would be taking this to Iraq.

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0014.jpg

poland is preparing to fight fire with fire.....they are gonna start using suicide bombers, but the trouble is that can't seem to find any trrops with experiance in this method of fighting :lol: :lol:

??? :roll: :roll: ??? :bash:

[Onyks]

Looking pretty good! That has to be the first time I've seen an Mi-8 picture this month. Suicide bombers? Poland?? :roll:

[seruriermarshal]

Nice Pics.....but I don't see why they would be taking this to Iraq.

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0014.jpg

poland is preparing to fight fire with fire.....they are gonna start using suicide bombers, but the trouble is that can't seem to find any trrops with experiance in this method of fighting :lol: :lol:


:bash: :bash: :bash:

[Javehn]

Do you guys going to send the new Humvies to Iraq ? What is the difference and upgrades of Polan Humvies ?

[Catch22]

Stop flaming please, its P&V section. I'm nowuploading some photos to server and will post them sucessievely in this thread. I'll answer any questions I can, but please save silly-one-line-comments for yourself. :|

EDIT: Javhen, Basically polish "Trynka" HMMWV modification is based on M1052A2 version. It features some adaptations as shielded WKM-B (NSW 12,7x99 NATO, or 7,62 UKM2000 or 40mm AGL) with additional mount for SPIKE ER, communications, ABC diagnostics and mounted NV devices. It's still under development. And we're not sending any HMMWVies to Iraq at the moment. Ocassionally (but rarely) we use american ones.


OK first small series of photos now:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/TeamLeader1.jpg
Team Leader and RTO of the new Polish Team (IV deployment with Multinational Division Centre-South)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/TeamLdrWIST94onlanyard.jpg
Team Leader's sidearm, WIST-94 9mm (para)pistol, lanyard attached.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/TeamwithoutTL.jpg
New strenghtened team numbers 9 men (previously 8) and is more heavily armed - it consists of Team Leader, RTO, GPMG (PKM) gunner, RPG operator, paramedic, mortar operator (as suitable for mission he can be armed as normal soldier), Marksman (SWD or TRG21) and 2 other soldiers one of them armed additionaly with handheld Pallad wz.83 40mm GL. Team is transported by 2 Honkers/Skorpion-3 vehicles, which can carry also load of mortar and RPG ammo (up to 60 rounds for 60mm light mortar).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/TeamPKMgunner.jpg
Team GMPG gunner, his PKM is fitted with NV optics.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/TeamMarksmanSakoTRG21.jpg
Team Marksman, more often he will carry SWD instead of SAKO TRG 21
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/TeamParamedic.jpg
Team Paramedic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/TeamMember1.jpg
Typical equipment, note new assault vest made by private MIWO company.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/NewBerylPallad83.jpg
One of development versions of the new Beryl'03 variants, featuring front grip and some P-rails, folding front sight and some minor changes. On this piece buttstock is still of old type. New ones are both telescopic and foldable. EOTech 552 Holosight is mounted on upper rail. Handheld 40mm Grenade launcher Pallad model 83 is seen in folded, transport position, it fires also all munitions suitable for M203 and AG36.

[Catch22]

Another few

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/mortar60mm.jpg
Standard polish army SMG, 9x19mm PM-84P used in hands of mortar operator. Light, manportable 60mm mortar is transported on special rucksack.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/NVopticsmountedonRPG7.jpg
PCS-5 polish NV optics mounted on this RPG7
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/Trg21.jpg
Well known SAKO TRG-21 7,62x51mm sniper rifle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/NewBerylPallad83GL.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/Pallad83GL.jpg
Another picture of Pallad 40mm GL
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/Tlwist94.jpg
Team Leaders sidearm, WIST-94 9mm pistol.

[PONS]

:D
I first time see so armed polish soldiers
:D

[FDF_Hemppis]

:D Looks a lot like:

A Sako TRG-41 woot

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0002.jpg

And your Beryls are starting to reach the coolness factor of RK-95 ;)

[perdurabo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/NewBerylPallad83.jpg
i wanted to ask what pipe is this but later i saw that this is Pallad in selfstanding version. So now with Beryl wz03 grenadier will be using selfstanding version?

[wholagun]

oh boy its gonna be hot wearing that in Iraq, especially with summer commong soon to Iraq.

I love the pics, very nice. What about the Polish mini, won't it get any action? Also, how many troops on the next rotation will get to use the new equipment inlcluding the new dessert cammo?

[MVSpartan117]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/NewBeryl1.jpg

That's an awesome rifle!

Looks like a westernized AK, I really like it :)

[Javehn]

The RPG 7 , what is the Polish firm producing it , and how it is called in Poland ? Also , what is the sight on the RPG ?

[wholagun]

any pics of up armoured Honkers?

Also what's up with the RPG7, if that even is an RPG7 i can't tell them apart to be honest. It'd be a shame to lose those and have the enemy take them from

[wholagun]

The RPG 7 , what is the Polish firm producing it , and how it is called in Poland ? Also , what is the sight on the RPG ?

eoh. ****e you beat me by a few seconds, :fork:

[Javehn]

The RPG 7 , what is the Polish firm producing it , and how it is called in Poland ? Also , what is the sight on the RPG ?

eoh. ****e you beat me by a few seconds, :fork:

Great minds think allike ;)

[wholagun]

The RPG 7 , what is the Polish firm producing it , and how it is called in Poland ? Also , what is the sight on the RPG ?

eoh. ****e you beat me by a few seconds, :fork:

Great minds think allike ;)

so true so true, i not gonna despute that

[GrimReaper]

What is the SMG that the mortar oprator is carrying?

[Javehn]

I guess Glauveritz .

[wholagun]

What is the SMG that the mortar oprator is carrying?

polish made Pm-84 Glauberyt
http://img73.exs.cx/img73/7683/Pm-84_1.gif

Pm-84 was designed during the early 1980-ties by a team of engineers from Z.M. Radom. First named wz. 1981 it went through a rigorous testing process which resulted in some minor changes: foregrip was replaced by a folding pistol grip and shape of the charging handles was altered. Finally it went into production as "9 mm pm wz. 1984" (9 mm SMG model 1984). It's also known as "Glauberyt".


Pm-84 is a blowback operated SMG. It's layout is very similar to that of Uzi, i.e. forward part of the bolt wraps around the chamber, the breech face is in the rear part of the bolt, magazine fits into the pistol grip etc. As many of the contemporary weapons of this type the Pm-84 is constructed out of sheet metal stampings, making it easy and cheap to manufacture.Only major parts that require machining are the bolt and the barrel. Barrel in the 9 mm Makarov version is threaded for a silencer. Pm-84 fires from closed bolt. Trigger mechanism sits in the rear part of the receiver and is controlled by a selector/safety lever located on the receiver's left side. Pistol grip houses parts of an inertia operated retarding device which reduces cyclic fire rate to around 600 shots per minute, a very good result for a weapon of this size and weight. Pm-84 is equipped with a folding forward pistol grip and a retractable wire stock. Grips and the forward grip are made of black plastic. Sights have four setting: two for 75 m (one open and one peep), 150 and 200m. The weapon can be reloaded by two handles located at both sides of the receiver. Standard equipment consists of a carrying belt, a canvas holster, mag pouch and four magazines (one 15 rounds and three 25 rounds).


Pm-84: 9 mm Makarov variant
Pm-84P: 9 mm Parabellum variant. This version has a significantly heavier profile due to a more massive bolt and larger bolt cover. Pm-84P is also slightly heavier.

Guns manufactured recently have additional sheets of metal riveted to the sides of the receiver partially covering the stock in retracted position and larger bolt handles (the gun pictured on the top of this page has this features). Both Pm-84 and Pm-84P are also offered in semi-automatic versions.


Pm-84P, as well as the new Pm-98, are used by the Polish military and will ultimately replace Pm-63. Pm-84P are also used by the Polish police and Border Guard. The weapon is also offered for export.

[Javehn]

I heard that new 9mm PM-98 of Luchnik Radom would be succesfull design . I read about it in IDET-2003 "Weapons" journal edition . Perhaps someone has more info , REMOV ? When it will enter the active service ?

[tony6]

PM-98 entered the service few years ago but in Police forces and Border Guard units as far.
BTW: great photos Catch22!

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0002.jpg

I'm sorry but if that isnt bad ass I dont know what is. :D

[MARINO]

GP

[Midav]

Pretty nice pics!! woot

[BigBaribal]

Great pics. But what a pity that these Polish soldiers will risk their life for a cause that doesn't concern them.

My compassion also to all the US soldiers risking their lifes in Irak for not so clear reasons. I hope that they will get back home soon and in good health.

[Catch22]

I added some comments to previous ones - now some more.

Dynamic demonstration: ambushed patrol, CAS, reinforcements by air, MEDEVAC.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/Zbiksidepannels1.jpg
"Zbik" (Lynx) recon vehicle leading patrol - additional rubber skirts were discussed earlier in this thread.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/Zbiksidepannels2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/ambushdemo.jpg
Suicide bomb car (yellow one) went off wounding some soldiers in patrol. Some terrorists opened fire on cars (look carefully you may notice them ;)) Intensive surpressing fire.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/ambushdemo2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/ambushdemo3.jpg
CAS is requested

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/ambushCAS.jpg
CAS arrives (actually Hind showed up quickly, and I wasnt able to take good pics of it with my digital, this one is taken after its 4 turn over target, after MEDEVAC arrived - you can see its tail rotor in the pic)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/ambushdemo4.jpg
MEDEVAC Mi8T touches down, with some reinforcements, smoke screen is laid to protect it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/rappeldemo.jpg
W-3 "Sokol" (Falcon) which was protecting MEDEVAC helo is now rappeling in some more reinforcements.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/ambushMEDEVAC.jpg
Wounded soldiers are being evacuated.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/ambushMEDEVAC1.jpg
MEDEVAC takes off with wounded.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/W3.jpg
W-3 before rappeling action

[Catch22]

And some effects of live firing presentation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/bigIEDexplosion.jpg
Big IED went off p-)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/STARafterIED.jpg
Old Star army truck after big IED explosion. Army wanted media to get the idea what it looks and feels like. They got the message. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/SKOTafterIED.jpg
Old Skot (OT-64) APC after combined AT mine and fugas explosion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/RPGhitsonBRDM.jpg
Poor old BRDM perforated by RPG7 PG7 round from 150 meters.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/BRDMhitwithRPG7.jpg
Nice and warm (actually it was cold and windy day so the heat was appreciated by many) :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/Startruckafter23-2fire.jpg
Remember sitting manequinns form the first photos in this thread? Thats what left after some 23mm HE rounds form ZUR 23-2 hit their truck on 600 meters.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/GROMsnipers.jpg
Last but not least - truck mounted ZUR 23-2 and to its left two discreet gentelmen form GROM plinking their 12,7 Antimateriels (FN Hecate in desert camo and black polish WKW "Wilk" (Wolf) behind it. Closest person is a ghilliesuited army sniper enjoying his TRG (funny, but his rifle was camouflaged with russian KLMK camo) fabric.

[herbal718]

Sweet pics, keep them comping!

[scrybe]

Awesome pics. Those guys look ready to bring the pain!

[tony6]

Yeah-they will be sent to Iraq in January. Hot time after ellections...
Hope they come back in one piece.

[Marmot1]

THX Catch....

[ShotOver]

That new equipment looks very badass, much respect for the Polish troops for sticking to the Iraq fight.
:D

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Few pics stolen from the MoND's webiste:

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/1_polig_ziel_2.jpg
Sniper- large version ;)

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/20_polig_ziel_2.jpg

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/21_polig_ziel_2.jpg

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/22_polig_ziel_2.jpg

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/24_polig_ziel_2.jpg

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/25_polig_ziel_2.jpg

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/28_polig_ziel_2.jpg

http://www.wp.mil.pl/photoGallery/2004_06_14tyuio/2004_09_24kjhg/29_polig_ziel_2.jpg

[Red]

I wish my other country could just get some of this new equipment for the squaddies.It would help so much.We are still stuck in the era of walkie talkie which have limited range and are not very durable.

[Javehn]

Question about the night site . What is the night sight ? :)

[perdurabo]

Question about the night site . What is the night sight ? :)
NVG on helmlets are polish made PCO
PLN-2A (monosight) and PLN-2AD (dual for drivers)
on UKM/PK prabably also polish sight duno his designation
BTW i would like to see them on all polish 1st line soldiers not on small group

[Javehn]

Excellent , thank , Perdurabo . What company produces them ?

[wholagun]

money and time, in that order too.

First we need to get more money to modernize and then time to distribute and train the troops with the new gear. But Poland has come a long way in military tech and equipment, just look at early 1990s, and compare them to now. p-)

[REMOV]

Excellent , thank , Perdurabo . What company produces them ?He wrote it - PCO (http://www.pcosa.com.pl/), Przemyslowe Centrum Optyki S.A. from Warsaw.

[Marmot1]

Excellent , thank , Perdurabo . What company produces them ?He wrote it - PCO (http://www.pcosa.com.pl/), Przemyslowe Centrum Optyki S.A. from Warsaw.


Well I can only add form my personal experience that they won't sell you any NV without Arms Dealer licence and permison form MOD for export... even pricing is SECRET.... it might sound strange but this is reality...

P.S you can easily buy American NV googles in poland but it is forbiden for avarage mortal to buy polish... yeah this sux... and PCO marketing branch seems to be in late 80's with their aproach to client...

[Lance Corporal]

Looks good (TRG = badass), but what quantity of troops will be equipped with the new gear? One squad, for PR? ;)

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Looks good (TRG = badass), but what quantity of troops will be equipped with the new gear? One squad, for PR? ;)

Majority, I think, because most of this equipment (vests, helmets, radios, smallarms etc.) is already in use in Iraq, but in lesser numbers.

[perdurabo]

if you look closer you will see older vest with black ribbon(? thin material sewed in at the end of material like pockets edge....) around pockets and newer ones have olive

[Chris O`Crooh]

NV sight, mounted on PKM/UKM-2000 and RPG is PCO-5. It has set of 4 exchageable reticles (because of different ballistics of ammo), that makes it use on AKM, SWD, PKM and RPG-7.
Black cap on the objective allows to use NV sight in the sunlight, and you are able to shoot up to 600 meters (650 yards).

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/NewBeryl1.jpg

That's an awesome rifle!

Looks like a westernized AK, I really like it :)

I LUV it, too! Looks like the AK-74M/AK-100 design, with some upper british SA-80 on top. I like the folding skeleton stock, too...kinda like Galil

Anyways, what's the name of this?

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Anyways, what's the name of this?

wz. 96 Beryl

http://hem.passagen.se/dadkri/Beryl.htm

[Onyks]

Heavily modifed :)

[Musashi]

Hallo!
My American friend put a few questions regarding Polish 60 mm light mortar. What do you think about it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/Zielonka240904/mortar60mm.jpg



Will that mortar be the kind of mortar with base plate, stand and tube...or a new sort of weapon? If it is the traditional mortars, that will make 9http://forum.axishistory.com/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif such weapons in an infantry company. USA infantry company has two mortars.

Though I hate to second guess Commanders in Iraq, a 60mm mortar in each squad may be too much.

Is one soldier supposed to operate it alone? If he needs help, will three members of the squad be tied down using the mortar?, Will the squad have time to set it up the mortar and use it before the insurgents escape? Will other squad members have to carry mortar shells, base plate etc in addition their own equipment? Can they get the ammunition to the mortar man in a fire fight if they are under cover?

[Catch22]

Just mind those pictures are from official presentation - what would be field practice we can only guess. I've talked with some officers about that mortar - its use and transportation in Iraq theatre. Staff decided to equip each squad with it probably because we are often forced to take offensive actions (which isnt mentioned by the media) and polish forces used mortars in such situations with good results previously. Mortar would be equipped dependantly on proflie of a given mission. 9 men squad is normally transported by two Honkers/Scorpions and mortar and its base are carried by one man on special rucksack, operated by one or two. Ammo reserve is 60 rounds - normally stored in both Honkers. As you probably noticed, presented squad is quite heavily armed but it lacks UGL's, only one Pallad-D (selfstanding) is present, so perhaps 60mm light mortar was put there because lack of grenadiers in our troops.

Like I said at the beggining - it was a official "show&tell" so only after deployment of the VI turn field practice would show the truth about use of these mortars in field.

[Musashi]

Dziękuję Catch22 :)
Twój angielski jest bardzo dobry, tylko pamiętaj o pisaniu przymiotników od narodowości (np. Polish) dużą literą.
Pozdrowienia :)
Krzysiek

[wholagun]

I heard the troops were complaining b/c Skorpions' (Iraqi Honker) engine was not strong enough with the added amour. Have they decided to put in bigger engines or just make do with the status quo?

[Hammy]

i dont know whats the deal with all those fancy cages. U you have to fire the RPG from a window or balcony of a taller building and the crew is toast.... :bash:

[wholagun]

the cage has alrady saved US soldires lives. Do a search on this site and you'll get lots of info.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

I heard the troops were complaining b/c Skorpions' (Iraqi Honker) engine was not strong enough with the added amour. Have they decided to put in bigger engines or just make do with the status quo?

The Honker was developed as a light, '2nd line' jeep, and by the time when we sent our troops to Iraq nodoby had been thinking about using it as a armoured patrol vechicle. The Scorpion upgrade is a rather temporary solution, and future development of it is rather senseless because of the Honker's limitations (weak engine, suspension, etc.). Thats why army is looking for a classic heavy armoured vechicle like Dingo or Polish Dzik.

[wholagun]

so they won't change the suspention and engines on all honkers despite the fact they are weak?

[RGRBOX]

Nice Pics.. I don't see them having a hard time finding ammo over there...

[Catch22]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

[HardThunder]

Marmot1 & Catch22 very nice pics. Great info. OUr troops ,and CMD have found the Polish troops to be very good. The work, and support they have given has been fantastic.
Again thank you for the pics, and info



i dont know whats the deal with all those fancy cages. U you have to fire the RPG from a window or balcony of a taller building and the crew is toast.... :bash:

That could be an issue for the gunner, and anyone that dum in the room. From the top of a building , is not a problem for back blast, but most people miss. Not a good idea to upset ar,med troops that way.

[Johnny_H02]

simply awsome

[RGRBOX]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,

[Upfrontreporting]

Very nice and interesting pictures woot



Regards
Upfrontreporting

[Marmot1]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,

Beryl use same ammo as M-16 only magzazine is diferent due to AK heritage....

PKM use 7,62x54R which is oldest military round still in service,developed at the end of XIX century. It was used in Mosin-Nagant,SVT,SKS,SWD Dragunov and many rifles.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

so they won't change the suspention and engines on all honkers despite the fact they are weak?

Because the range of such upgrade have to be so wide that it would make whole upgrade uneconomic. It's just cheaper to buy 50 or 100 new armoured vechicles than trying to make an armoured vechicle from a light jeep.

[RGRBOX]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,

Beryl use same ammo as M-16 only magzazine is diferent due to AK heritage....

PKM use 7,62x54R which is oldest military round still in service,developed at the end of XIX century. It was used in Mosin-Nagant,SVT,SKS,SWD Dragunov and many rifles.

Thanks for the info.

[benny5405]

O.... classic american soldier style again ( heavy with useless ).... nothing special ....

[wholagun]

O.... classic american soldier style again ( heavy with useless ).... nothing special ....

what is useless about their equipment? why not just stip them naked and hand them a gun, after all it is a dessert.

[perdurabo]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,

Beryl use same ammo as M-16 only magzazine is diferent due to AK heritage....

PKM use 7,62x54R which is oldest military round still in service,developed at the end of XIX century. It was used in Mosin-Nagant,SVT,SKS,SWD Dragunov and many rifles.
SKS uses 7.62x39 (SVT prabably too but i'm not sure)

[tenda]

very interesting pic's... ;)
sorry for the brdm... p-)

[the_axis_of_weasel]

http://foto.pap.com.pl/midi_galerie/2621/gal_2621_0002.jpg

I'm sorry but if that isnt bad ass I dont know what is. :D

100% Agreed. I have a TRG-22 and TRG-42 and I love em'. An extremely well made, accurate rifle with good looks to boot.

[Marmot1]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,

Beryl use same ammo as M-16 only magzazine is diferent due to AK heritage....

PKM use 7,62x54R which is oldest military round still in service,developed at the end of XIX century. It was used in Mosin-Nagant,SVT,SKS,SWD Dragunov and many rifles.
SKS uses 7.62x39 (SVT prabably too but i'm not sure)

SVT for sure 7,62x54R as well as DP-27. and Maxim HMG And you are right with SKS... sorry too fast writing to slow thinking

[HardThunder]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,

Hay I had no idea, and have worked with weapons for over 40 years. It would seem that as they are now Nato, and a very good freind to to US, and UK that they would use 5.56. From what I have seen the 5.56mm form works better then the 5.45mm one (the 5.45 bullet is to light).

Like I said very good troops, and well supported by the nation/people.
I am very proud of not only them, their support, and so soon after their freedom, and the personal issues within that they are dealing with.
A great people that had been Forgotten for many years.

[RGRBOX]

Why is that mikebox? Beryls are 5,56 NATO, only PKM's run 7,62x54R which is locally available.

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,

Hay I had no idea, and have worked with weapons for over 40 years. It would seem that as they are now Nato, and a very good freind to to US, and UK that they would use 5.56. From what I have seen the 5.56mm form works better then the 5.45mm one (the 5.45 bullet is to light).

Like I said very good troops, and well supported by the nation/people.
I am very proud of not only them, their support, and so soon after their freedom, and the personal issues within that they are dealing with.
A great people that had been Forgotten for many years.

Poland is a great country, with great people... I look forward to myking a visit soon.

[REMOV]

I didn't know that there weapons used a different ammo then the standrd ak etc.. learn something everyday on this site... even at my age,,,Mikebox, the Beryl (or 5,56 mm kbs wz.96 Beryl) is the AKMS derivative with some modifications (for example fire selector located on left side of receiver 1-3-Auto) and it replaced 7,62 mm kbk AKM/AKMS and 5,45 mm kbk wz.88 Tantal (Poland never used Russian AK-74). The PK/PKM (or 7,62 mm km PK/PKM) was a standard GPMG in Polish Army at squad/platoon level. It will be slowly replaced by 7,62 mm (7.62mmx51 NATO) km wz.00 (UKM-2000). And at the squad level probably will be introduced 5,56 mm kbkm wz.03 (basically the Polish Minimi, see pictures below).

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_Rkm_wz03D_01a.jpg
http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_Rkm_wz03D_03a.jpg
http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_rkm_wz.03D-02.jpg
5.56mm kbkm wz.2003D (equivalent of Minimi Para)

[Catch22]

Next time Im going to wear some more smart pants than old M-65 ;)

[wholagun]

so have they come up with a new design for the Polish minimi, i know this was only a conecept design, if im not mistaken.

Also when are they gonna start issueing them?

[tony6]

so have they come up with a new design for the Polish minimi, i know this was only a conecept design, if im not mistaken.
Also when are they gonna start issueing them?
I hope that we'll see that "new shape" on september's MSPO exhibition.
I'm going to be there.
REMOV also will be there for sure:)

[RGRBOX]

Nice looking weapon, looks like the M249 SAW (Minimi).

[lekomin]

so have they come up with a new design for the Polish minimi, i know this was only a conecept design, if im not mistaken.
Also when are they gonna start issueing them?
I hope that we'll see that "new shape" on september's MSPO exhibition.
I'm going to be there.
REMOV also will be there for sure:)
I will be there as well.. it is in my home town for God sake ;)
take care

[tenda]

Nice looking weapon, looks like the M249 SAW (Minimi).
....x 2... ;)

[wholagun]

what is the official status on issueing the minimi to units? Are they for certain going to get ?

Also, will there be a tender to supply Polish army with 5 56 light machine guns?

[perdurabo]

what is the official status on issueing the minimi to units? Are they for certain going to get ?

Also, will there be a tender to supply Polish army with 5 56 light machine guns?
what minimi? w-gun its kbkm wz.03 it's not license or copy it is our own design.

[tony6]

what is the official status on issueing the minimi to units? Are they for certain going to get ?
AFAIK there was no official decision yet.
I read 2-3 months ago (in "Technika Wojskowa" I believe) that prototypes are being tested in the field.

[wholagun]

what is the official status on issueing the minimi to units? Are they for certain going to get ?

Also, will there be a tender to supply Polish army with 5 56 light machine guns?
what minimi? w-gun its kbkm wz.03 it's not license or copy it is our own design.

:oops: yeah yeah i know my bad, im just not as well versed in this gun/military vernacular.