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Durandal
09-27-2004, 08:43 AM
Germany pulls out of military expo over retired Army officer's column


By Jon R. Anderson, Stars and Stripes
European edition, Thursday, September 23, 2004


HEIDELBERG, Germany — The German military has pulled out of the U.S. Army’s annual Land Combat Expo, protesting an opinion piece written by a controversial retired U.S. officer slated to be a guest speaker at next week’s event.


Retired Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, a noted author and frequent lecturer in military circles, wrote an opinion piece blasting the Germans in the New York Post on Aug. 19. The column came in the wake of criticism from Sen. John Kerry’s presidential campaign team of President Bush’s plan to reduce U.S. forces in Europe and Asia.


“Not one presents a reasoned strategic argument for maintaining wasteful garrisons abroad. And not one admits that the Germans only care about losing the jobs we provide,” wrote Peters.


“Regarding the Democrats’ claim that we’ll lose influence in Europe, the obvious question is, ‘What influence?’” Peters continued. “We’re not stabbing our French and German ‘allies’ in the back. They stabbed us. And they’ll do it again. Our troop posture in Europe doesn’t give us influence over the Europeans — it gives the Europeans power over us.”


In response, German army leaders informed U.S. officials on Tuesday that they’ve decided to pull out of the expo, said Col. Hans Kling, the chief German liaison officer at the Army European headquarters in Heidelberg. Kling said the decision to withdraw from the expo was made by the commander of Germany’s land forces, Lt. Gen. Axel Bürgener.


The Germans were to provide three tanks, two wheeled vehicles and about 30 soldiers as part of the German army’s display at the expo.


Billed as the Army’s premier professional development symposium for troops in Europe, the Land Combat Expo is slated to run Tuesday through Sept. 30. Much of it will center on the Army’s achievements through the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan.


“We are displaying for our allies and enemies alike what a great democracy, using the on-the-ground presence of our units, supported by families and the backing of the American people, can achieve in defense of liberty,” Gen. B.B. Bell, commander of U.S. Army forces in Europe, wrote encouraging that troops attend the symposium.


Asked what kind of message the Germans’ boycotting of the expo sends friends and enemies on democratic ideals such as freedom of speech and freedom of the press, Kling responded, “It is a free decision to attend or not, this is also part of a democracy.”


Explaining why the decision was made within days of the expo’s opening ceremonies, Kling said the column had only recently come to the attention of German officials.


“We do not want any verbal confrontation between any German soldier and this guest speaker,” said Kling, adding, “We do not want to provide a platform for the speaker to do this in the presence of German soldiers.”


Kling emphasized the decision had nothing to do with tension between the United States and Germany since the invasion of Iraq. The majority of Germans oppose the war there.


Army leaders say they’re holding out hope German officials might reconsider.


Bürgener has written Army leaders in Europe “expressing his concern about participating in the [Land Combat Expo] and we are continuing to discuss the issue with the German command,” said Bell’s spokeswoman, Lt. Col. Jane Crichton in a prepared statement.


“While we strongly support the First Amendment rights of free speech and a free press, our relationship with our German allies is also very important to us,” she added.


Regarding Peters’ comments, Crichton said, “The senior leadership of USAREUR looks forward to engaging him at the LCE regarding his stated views. Mr. Peters’ comments in no way reflect the position of the U.S. Army Europe.”


Peters said any boycott amounts to “defacto censorship.”


Called for comment at home in northern Virginia, Peters said, “It’s perfectly all right for the Germans to call President Bush a Nazi, it’s perfectly all right for the Germans to criticize everything about America, to lionize [“Fahrenheit 911” director] Michael Moore and treat our soldiers as second-class human beings … but they want to try and censor the American media.”


Peters said the German decision was disappointing but not surprising.


“I think the fact that they’re pulling out is the best imaginable indicator of how weak our alliance is, how meaningless Germany’s contribution is,” said Peters. “If they pull out because they can’t stand one 800-word opinion piece in an American newspaper, how could we possibly expect them to stand by us in a violent crisis?”


Peters, who is fluent in German and served in Germany for 10 years during his active-duty career, said he stands by everything he wrote.

aartamen
09-27-2004, 09:17 AM
Good riddance.

moughoun
09-27-2004, 09:35 AM
Good riddance.

Yes, thank God the American's are leaving woot











p-)

Claymore
09-27-2004, 10:22 AM
"Strictly Photos & Video"

Hmmmm? :roll:

Red
09-27-2004, 10:50 AM
I wonder when this whole back stab thing will end?

caleb
09-27-2004, 10:53 AM
We can do whatever the **** we want...

The only thing this guy wanted to achieve is, to provoke and insult German army officials. He sounds like a small child that didn't get his lolly....

If this guy is disappointed by us not supporting the war in Iraq, I just say this:
After 2 World Wars the people of Germany are fed up about any kind and form of war.

What does this narrow-minded fag expect? That we support a war that is not approved by the UN and is completly out of NATO responsibility?

Secondly, the people of Germany knew, that Iraq didn't pose any kind of threat to them and never would be a threat to them. The French felt the same.
It is also part of a friendship, to tell your friend that his actions are not justified or are against your sense of politics. We did that and told our american friends that we can't support a war against better knowledge...

Germany simply felt this war was unjustified, illegal and would pose a huge threat to middle-east stability, so we stayed out of this.

And we were right about it.



and treat our soldiers as second-class human beings


:roll: Yeah right...complete Bull****. The Germans still wellcome american troops in their country not only for the sole purpose of economics, but because they are friends.

I spoke to alot of U.S. soldiers stationed in Germany, (there is a Army base near from where I live) they never felt treated like this but treated with the respect they deserve.

Red
09-27-2004, 10:55 AM
We can do whatever the f*** we want...

The only thing this guy wanted to achieve is, to provoke and insult German army officials. He sounds like a small child that didn't get his lolly....

If this guy is disappointed by us not supporting the war in Iraq, I just say this:
After 2 World Wars the people of Germany are fed up about any kind and form of war.

What does this narrow-minded fag expect? That we support a war that is not approved by the UN and is completly out of NATO responsibility?

Secondly, the people of Germany knew, that Iraq didn't pose any kind of threat to them and never would be a threat to them. The French felt the same.
It is also part of a friendship, to tell your friend that his actions are not justified or are against your sense of politics. We did that and told our american friends that we can't support a war against better knowledge...

Germany simply felt this war was unjustified, illegal and would pose a huge threat to middle-east stability, so we stayed out of this.

And we were right about it.



and treat our soldiers as second-class human beings


:roll: Yeah right...complete Bull****. The Germans still wellcome american troops in their country not only for the sole purpose of economics, but because they are friends.

I spoke to alot of U.S. soldiers stationed in Germany, (there is a Army base near from where I live) they never felt treated like this but treated with the respect they deserve.
If you ask me,i think it is the Germans that are acting like kids.The guys said something you don't like,big deal move on.But no they just cant do that can they?

caleb
09-27-2004, 10:58 AM
No, it's about respect. This guy has none of it, so we stay out.

simple as that.

Red
09-27-2004, 11:01 AM
No, it's about respect. This guy has none of it, so we stay out.

simple as that.
But the guys is not the US Army,he does not represent the US military.he is a private citizen and he has a right to voice his opinion wheter you like it or not.So get over it and attend the gatdamed expo

Harlequin
09-27-2004, 11:18 AM
he is a private citizen and he has a right to voice his opinion wheter you like it or not.So get over it and attend the gatdamed expo

You are completely right that he is free to voice his opinion BUT when you are an official speaker to this expo and move in international circles - even worse so here because it touches international politics - then there is something known as "tact" or diplomacy which marks the limits.

Further may i kindly add that not every countrys culture is like the american one. So when neglecting this, reactions like that shown here should not come as a surprise.

(Although i personally agree that not attenting the expo is slightly overreacted - precaution as to not give it a chance for escalation has always been better than the opposite)

Virus
09-27-2004, 11:33 AM
I can understand the germans pulling out, its their right, not like its a life threatening change to anyone. But i think that they should just take what this guy is saying in stride....you know he's just being an asshole...I dont feel like germany has backstabbed us, they just disagree with us....france ill never like lmao rofl but if i was a german born, and he said anything to me, id be like /shrug what ever foo....... :slap:

Freibier
09-27-2004, 11:55 AM
Agree that pulling out of the expo is a bit overreacting.

BlackRain
09-27-2004, 12:54 PM
The Germans were to provide three tanks, two wheeled vehicles and about 30 soldiers as part of the German army’s display at the expo.

Good lord, the horror! What are we going to do now that the entire Germany military won't be at the Expo?

Just kidding! :D

Locked N Loaded
09-27-2004, 02:17 PM
WOW....3 TANKS, 2 VEHICLES AND 30 TROOPS! How will this expo get along without them?....If Germany wants to pull out due to a statement made August 19th, by a civilian, let them!
And why wait till right before the expo to make this decision??? It's their choice, they have the right to do what ever they want...... :roll:
I for one won't loose any sleep over this.....I have a Hurricane to clean up after....

L n L

Shake n Bake
09-27-2004, 02:50 PM
Zee germans love to dish out insults to Americans but can't take it when they get scrutinized.

You know what.... go take your ball and get the feck out

panzerjager
09-27-2004, 03:04 PM
No, it's about respect. This guy has none of it, so we stay out.

simple as that.

How many hatchet jobs have German media like der spiegel run on the U.S. in the last 4 years? If we reacted to German opinion pieces like the Germans have reacted, we would be flattening Berlin again right now.

szr
09-27-2004, 04:28 PM
It's pretty sad that anyone would get mad at something that was written in the New York Post! It's Fox News Channel in tabloid form! It's a conservitive leaning paper owned by the owners of Fox News Channel. It would be like getting mad over something printed in one of the numerous liberal slanted European papers! Who cares what overtly politically biased media thinks? And this was just an opinion piece.

Durandal
09-27-2004, 08:19 PM
"Strictly Photos & Video"

Hmmmm? :roll:

Relax. A simple mistake. I meant to put in General Discussion.

Durandal
09-27-2004, 08:30 PM
The only thing this guy wanted to achieve is, to provoke and insult German army officials. He sounds like a small child that didn't get his lolly....

I figure I would wait out the day to see the responses...

Here is my reply:

Actually, his article was directed at an American audience. One of the reasons this guy is speaking at this Army event is because A) He is ex-Army and B) He has done a **** load of SOLID work predicting where the Army needs to be in the future.


What does this narrow-minded fag expect?

"Fag"? Now THAT is constructive.

Peters' has a valid point. Not for Germany's participation in Iraq, but the lack of "support". Peters is not asking Germany to be in country, but rather, NOT a POLITICAL, enemy on this issue.

Which is completely valid.

The fact that the German's decided to pull out of this event is silly, because they are not doing it because of the government's opinion, but that of a writer and military analyst.

A smart one at that.

stuntman
09-27-2004, 09:23 PM
No, it's about respect. This guy has none of it, so we stay out.

simple as that.

How many hatchet jobs have German media like der spiegel run on the U.S. in the last 4 years? If we reacted to German opinion pieces like the Germans have reacted, we would be flattening Berlin again right now.

I think more importantly, why is your avatar so dam similar to mines?????
But honestly I think both sides are being ****SS!!!

Zenchan
09-28-2004, 08:19 AM
Funny, this never made headlines over here in Germany...

1. You gotta respect Peters - he has done and written a ton of good stuff.
2. Wonder who it was, that called the German contingent off. Probably not the Bundeswehr higher echelon. This must have come from somewhere in the Foreign Office. - which would not surprise me at all, knowing who is running that head shed :(
3. Have to agree with those, who consider german move overreaction. This is one man's opinion - and is nowhere near such incidents as the former german justice minister (socialdemocratic lady by the name of Däubler-Gmelin) equating Bush with Hitler in an open conversation with some union members. (worse and similar things are said behind closed doors by members of the coalition green party).
4. Caleb - your wording and the style of your posting are not really a recommendation for Germany, your political opininon and reflect rather badly on you as a person - ever thought about that?

caleb
09-28-2004, 08:37 AM
4. Caleb - your wording and the style of your posting are not really a recommendation for Germany, your political opininon and reflect rather badly on you as a person - ever thought about that?

:roll: What? Being against the Iraq war is making me a bad person? Boy, you don't have a clue what the word "opinion" means....

Anyway, I must apologize for calling him a fag, I'm sure he did serve his country well and proud. I was lacking respect for him. I'm just sick and tired of people attacking Germany for not partizipating in the Iraq war. We always have (after WW2) and in future conflicts always will stay beside the USA....

The Iraq war in it's controversy is an exepetion though, and I'm glad none of our boys are down there...

Durandal
09-28-2004, 08:45 AM
:roll: What? Being against the Iraq war is making me a bad person? Boy, you don't have a clue what the word "opinion" means....

Anyway, I must apologize for calling him a fag, I'm sure he did serve his country well and proud. I was lacking respect for him. I'm just sick and tired of people attacking Germany for not partizipating in the Iraq war. We always have (after WW2) and in future conflicts always will stay beside the USA....

The Iraq war in it's controversy is an exepetion though, and I'm glad none of our boys are down there...

Most of Germany's critics do not criticize Germany for NOT participating in the war. They criticize Germany for its government's vocal opposition to the conflict.

There is a rather larger difference between the two reasons.