PDA

View Full Version : EDIT:The Son Tay Raid - A 35-Year Retrospective


2RHPZ
09-29-2004, 06:33 PM
Son Tay raid a ‘model of teamwork’

By Charlie Coon
Stars and Stripes, European edition

STUTTGART, Germany (Sept. 28, 2004) — One of the heralded events in special operations history was the Son Tay raid of 1970.

In it, a team of 56 Soldiers flew by helicopter into a North Vietnamese camp where Americans were suspected of being held prisoner. The raiders killed hundreds of the enemy and got away unscathed.

And while no prisoners were saved — they’d been relocated to a different camp a few months earlier — the mission has served as a model of teamwork and preparation, a group of Soldiers was told Wednesday by one of the original raiders, Command Sgt. Maj. Patrick St. Clair of the West Virginia Army National Guard.

The 1970 raid, followed by the botched attempt in 1980 to rescue U.S. hostages in Iran when eight Soldiers died, also helped to spur the next president, Ronald Reagan, to re-establish a strong special operations element in the United States after special ops had been downsized following Vietnam.

“I think [Reagan] understood we’d need a full complement of everything, including ... a special operations command,” said St. Clair, of Special Operations Detachment E, Special Operations Command Europe.

Back in 1970, he was simply Sgt. St. Clair, a young Green Beret who’d never been to Vietnam. St. Clair was among 100 who were handpicked by the legendary Col. Arthur D. “Bull” Simons.

“All we knew is that we were locked down and training for a mission,” St. Clair said. “That’s all we needed to know at the time.”

President Nixon had been unhappy with the way American prisoners of war were being treated, St. Clair said, adding, “We knew the average POW weight loss was 64 pounds.”

The suspected prison camp at Son Tay, located 23 miles west of the North Vietnamese capital of Hanoi, was chosen for the raid because it was accessible.

St. Clair’s job after his chopper crash-landed inside the compound was to take out a guard tower that overlooked a building his team was going to storm.

The team then blew a hole in the wall.

“That’s how we were going to get the POWs out,” St. Clair said.

After discovering there were no POWs, but not before laying waste to the enemy, including a building full of Caucasians, the raiders piled into helicopters and made their getaway as the enemy fired from below.

“You could hear the fragments of the [surface-to-air missiles] coming through the bird,” St. Clair said.

The lessons learned from Son Tay, and from the failed Iran mission, established a blueprint for future special operations, St. Clair said.

Rehearsals, smart people making the plans, adequate resources to do the job, thinking outside the box, taking into account the weather and having good lines of communication between the participants.

After his 90-minute presentation, which lasted more than twice as long as the raid itself, St. Clair took questions from the audience at Patch Theater.

How come Simons never made general, asked one Soldier.

“Probably too straightforward and successful,” St. Clair responded.

Who were the Caucasians that the raiders took out, another wanted to know. Maybe Russians or maybe Mongolians, St. Clair responded.

“One of the biggest things in the military is to keep learning from past experiences, both positive and negative,” said Lt. Col. Don Randle of SOCEUR, one of the Soldiers in the audience. “Don’t keep reinventing the wheel.”

The U.S. men’s basketball team’s third-place finish at this year’s Olympics, Randle said, was an example of superior talent not excelling because they were not “orchestrated.”

“I’ve been mentored by a lot of Vietnam veterans in my career,” Randle said. “When you’re getting ready for a mission, you better be rehearsing or eating or sleeping. This is what prepares us, knowing what the guy on our left and right is doing.”

Capt. Mike Lass of the Pennsylvania Army National Guard and SOCEUR said it was an honor to meet one of the original raiders.

“It’s one thing to read about the action and study the after-action reviews,” Lass said. “It adds a whole new aspect to hear a first-hand account.

“This brings the lesson home.”

shin_en
09-29-2004, 11:40 PM
WOW this mission is real? I didn't know that! I just knew of this story from Tom Clancy's Without Remorse. That is soooooo cool.

Mark Sman
09-30-2004, 12:08 AM
http://www.sontayraider.com/

MEGR
09-30-2004, 12:10 AM
I saw a History Channel show on this. I believe this was one of the most successful and daring Spec Op operations of its time. Unfortunately, they didn't free and POWs. Supposedly they'd been moved before the raid.

usmcbud
09-30-2004, 12:38 PM
Yes, and didn't they purposely crash land the chopper into the compund? I seem to remember that. That must of been AWESOME!!

Semper Fi!

hist2004
09-30-2004, 12:53 PM
Yes, and didn't they purposely crash land the chopper into the compund? I seem to remember that. That must of been AWESOME!!

Semper Fi!

Yes, the assault element of the raid, code-named “Blue Boy” purposely crashed
their H-3 helicopter into the Son Tay compound. This element contained 13
raiders. The other two elements contained 22 & 21 raiders I believe. The idea
was to get them in quickly for surprise and shock and then use the other Helo’s
for evacuation.

Regards,
Hist2004

usmcbud
09-30-2004, 02:04 PM
Thanks for the info...very informative.
Semper Fi...

n4292936
10-01-2004, 08:44 PM
If im not mistaken there were prisoners in the compound, they just werent American prisoners. Several captive South Vietnamese soldiers were found and rescued.

hist2004
10-01-2004, 08:57 PM
The camp at Son Tay was empty. the prisoners (American)
were moved prior to the raid. The POWs had been relocated
to Dong Hoi, on July 14.Their move was not due to North
Vietnam learning of the planned rescue attempt but because
of an act of nature. The POWs were moved because the well
in the compound had dried up and the nearby Song Con River,
where Son Tay was located, had begun to overflow its
banks. This flooding problem, not a security leak, resulted
in the prisoners being transported to Dong Hoi to a new
prison nicknamed "Camp Faith".

Regards,
Hist2004

MEGR
10-02-2004, 12:18 AM
I read alot about Vietnam. Alot of the POW rescue missions performed by US SOF didn't retrieve any Americans, but saved alot of South Vietnamese prisoners... Regarding the Son Tay raid, as I recall, the legendary SF soldier Dick Meadows was in that mission. If anyone wants to read about other POW missions, get some Navy SEAL books related to Vietnam. They and SOG did alot in trying to get POWs. One SEAL was actually awarded the MOH for going into North Vietnam with his vietnamese SEAL in a row boat, unarmed, to finally retrieve a downed Spotter-Plane-Pilot.

Marmot1
10-02-2004, 06:27 AM
During training the engineers said twelve pounds of C-4 would take out the bridge. However, to be sure they were going to double it and use twenty-four pounds. Col. Simons said that he wanted to be doubly sure and doubled that to forty-eight pounds then added that two people would carry forty-eight pounds each making it ninety-six pounds of C-4. I would have liked to see what ninety-six pounds of C-4 did to that bridge but it wasn't to be.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.sontayraider.com/A1skyraider.htm

soetopo1
10-02-2004, 07:37 AM
Let me say up front that I think the Son Tay raid was extremely daring and no doubt greatly boosted morale among US POWs, despite the fact that the camp was an empty hole. The following response is not meant as a criticism of the persons who participated in the operation.

Much of the public's understanding of the Son Tay assault comes from the dated book "The Raid." Major elements of that book are still incorporated into more contemporary re-tellings of the story. But that book, unfortunately, has not fully stood the test of time. Much of what it noted on SOG operations in the Son Tay vicinity, for example, we now know from declassified SOG reports were simply not true. Indeed, it you re-read it, the book seems to depend very heavily on some bitter DIA sources who spare no opportunity to shift blame largely on the shoulders of CIA. This is probably not an accurate assessment, but reflected the bias of the sources that were willing to speak to the author at the time.

"The Raid" also repeats the alleged body count of as many as 200 Vietnamese. If you go to the Son Tay Association website, they note this figure is "probably a little exaggerated." I believe it has been inflated exponentially. If anybody has a chance to visit Hanoi, the Vietnam News Agency archives has a ream of photos taken the morning after the raid. These were not for publication at the time, but were meant to document the event. It shows the still smoldering chopper that was intentionally crashlanded in the compound--and less than a dozen Vietnamese bodies in the small structures that surrounded the compound. Some might argue that the Vietnamese hid bodies because they were embarassed. I doubt it: as I said, these were not propaganda photos, but were meant to document the event.

Also, no evidence of any fatalities other than Vietnamese.

I published some of these photos a few years back in a magazine called "Behind the Lines." Many interpreted the photos and the article as an attempt to smear the reputation of the Son Tay raiders. As I said at the top, that is not my intent.

hist2004
10-02-2004, 11:37 AM
I agree that the number of North Vietnamese killed was probably not “200+”
but the so-called “secondary school” was in fact a barracks, housing most
likely Chinese troops that were supposedly there to train anti-aircraft crews.
I have read that they were suspected to be foreign troops (again Chinese)
that were there to train counter-recon units meant to hunt down SOG teams.
A belt was taken off one of the dead enemy and it was later identified as
being “Chinese”. Now was this equipment issued to whomever was there or
was it in fact a Chinese soldier, is still speculation. I would seriously doubt
anything the North Vietnamese put as fact considering the casualties.
North Vietnam was acutely embarrassed by the raid and wouldn’t have wanted
to show their proxies (Russian, China) that they were vulnerable to such an
attack. They would have lost too much “face”.

The “secondary school” firefight (raiders fighting for less than two minutes)
probably caused 50-100 casualties. The North Vietnam’s propaganda machine
would be in full swing to cover their embarrassment. I wouldn’t be too quick
to follow their line.

Regards,
Hist2004

2RHPZ
04-14-2005, 01:48 PM
The Son Tay Raid

A 35-Year Retrospective

Charles Tustin Kamps

On the night of 20–21 November 1970, the North Vietnamese were treated to an aggressive demonstration of Pres. Richard Nixon’s concern for the welfare of US prisoners of war (POW)—the raid on the Son Tay POW camp. Although we rescued no POWs (the enemy had moved them to other facilities), the raid serves as a model of a well-planned and -executed joint special operation. Indeed, Son Tay stands in stark contrast to the dismal effort mounted to free hostages in Iran 10 years later. Marked by outstanding organization, training, and unity of effort, Operation Kingpin badly embarrassed the North Vietnamese.

Brig Gen Donald Blackburn, special assistant for counterinsurgency and special activities in Washington and an old Army hand at special warfare, came up with the idea for the raid. After a favorable feasibility study, meticulous planning began with the blessing of the president. Most importantly, the operation remained directly subordinate to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, bypassing the bureaucracy in Southeast Asia. Brig Gen Leroy Manor, commander of USAF Special Operations at Eglin AFB, Florida, and the joint task force commander, wielded a very free hand. His deputy, Col Arthur “Bull” Simons, a long-time Army veteran of “spec ops,” would go in on the ground with the raiding party.

...more... (http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj05/spr05/vignette2.html)