sr-47 in use?

[Redux]

its been months, and yet i haven't come across any pic of US soldiers using an sr-47 in afghanistan. Did u guys ever come across pics of it in action?

[rob]

only 6 prototypes where ever made, the project is now dead. i doubt they are in use.

[Dmitri47]

ick, i wouldnt touch the thing

the ballistics and recoil of the AK round, and the fragile M16 body, whee


the galil was a better idea

[JohnnyDangerously]

What I never got was why the sf never trained extensively with real AK47's to get familiar with weapons they can pick up. Why create a weapon chambered for the soviet round, then add the feel of the M16? Why not just buy one of the new 47's and go to Afghanistan with that?

[ZaakM433]

What I never got was why the sf never trained extensively with real AK47's to get familiar with weapons they can pick up. Why create a weapon chambered for the soviet round, then add the feel of the M16? Why not just buy one of the new 47's and go to Afghanistan with that?

You dont the quality of one you just pick up. Cant add as much crap to the ak, or the same crap, as you can an m4 and sr47. Plus the floating barrel is uber accurate compared to the aks

[bishop1]

Plus its like you said, they already are trained on the M4, so with the SR-47 they could pick it and immediatly it would have the same feel and theyd be used to it all (except the need to pull the mag out as opposed to letting it fall like the standard M4) But i think the SR-47 was intended only for cave ops, where resupplys were difficult and they had to pick up enemy ammo. And if thats the case, we wouldnt see many of em anyways. But im with you, im sure you could put rails on an AK, so why not use that? Hell, you could probably have your weaponsmiths tweak it some to have it work better as well. Thats what id use.

[rob]

sf to train and qualify with aks. and seals have aks with a rail system in inventory. why was the sr-47 created then, they asked for it. it eventually died for whatever reason but thats it.

but the fact that the most accurate 7.62x39 weapon in the world was made in florida buy kac says something about the ak.

the ak is not up to the standard that the m16 sets in many peoples opinions. the ergonomics and accuracy are lacking.

[combat jack]

AK is a damn fine rifle, nonetheless.

[Roktiken]

sf to train and qualify with aks. and seals have aks with a rail system in inventory. why was the sr-47 created then, they asked for it. it eventually died for whatever reason but thats it.

but the fact that the most accurate 7.62x39 weapon in the world was made in florida buy kac says something about the ak.

the ak is not up to the standard that the m16 sets in many peoples opinions. the ergonomics and accuracy are lacking.

Point Being?

what it lacks it makes up for greatly.

Cheap, durable, reliable, huge stopping power.

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment plus there is more readily available ammunition for the AK-47 and if a replacement is needed, it's right at there feet, sometimes quite litterally.

[bishop1]

I really like the RPKs and RPDs. Are those used by anyone at all anymore, or have they all been replaced by the PK(M)?

[ibstolidude]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment - don't talk about that which you lack first hand information.

[thatguy96]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment
Incorrect. Most reports from the field and Lessons Learned style documentation show a general level of satisfaction with the AR-15/M16 pattern. Why you saw US soldiers with AKs was because initially (and probably still to an extent) armor crewmen found themselves without anything but a sidearm in an urban enviorment where a rifle or carbine would be quite useful. When you're only given 4 M4s and a small amount of M9s per platoon, people quickly make do with what they can find.

There has been little official documentation from the field that supports the "M16 sucks" aruguement, and this coming from a Pentagon who's looking for any excuse to replace it with the XM8 says something.

[Dmitri47]

they shoulda bought some AK-104's from Russia, just use the old ammo and mags laying around.

i'd trust my life to it

[Roktiken]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment - don't talk about that which you lack first hand information.

And let me guess you have been in Iraq and Afghanistan to prove otherwise. I'm simply stating what I have heard, dont get so testy over this.

I wasent saying the M16 doesent work in Iraq or Afghanistan, I was saying it is harder to use in Iraq and Afhganistan due to the weather and climate even you can agree with that.

[American Patriot]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment - don't talk about that which you lack first hand information.

And let me guess you have been in Iraq and Afghanistan to prove otherwise. I'm simply stating what I have heard, dont get so testy over this.

I wasent saying the M16 doesent work in Iraq or Afghanistan, I was saying it is harder to use in Iraq and Afhganistan due to the weather and climate even you can agree with that.

OMG, wrong dude! OMG The only personnel to use once-dropped AKs were tankers who sometimes weren't issued enough rifles.

[Mark Sman]

I've seen a fair amount of credible links on this board indicating US soldiers thought their M-16s were up to the job.

A tanker with only a pistol, and the chance to liberate an AK probably will. If the commander doesn't like it, stash it in the track. If you have to dismount around enemies, he can come over and write you up then. Just remember to stash a spare AK for him.

I've fired alot of different AKs, good rifles.

Related info.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26297


Equip all of your soldiers, even the diehard "death before dismount" tanker noncommissioned officers, with either M4s or M16s. Also, the headquarters and headquarters company commander, the battalion commander, XO, S3, and staff will want M16s/M4s. An M9 makes a nice decoration, but is not worth spit in a firefight. The folks who think differently usually learn the hard way--after their first engagement. You do not want the "old man" to take his driver's rifle during a raid, as I have seen happen.

[Roktiken]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment - don't talk about that which you lack first hand information.

And let me guess you have been in Iraq and Afghanistan to prove otherwise. I'm simply stating what I have heard, dont get so testy over this.

I wasent saying the M16 doesent work in Iraq or Afghanistan, I was saying it is harder to use in Iraq and Afhganistan due to the weather and climate even you can agree with that.

OMG, wrong dude! OMG The only personnel to use once-dropped AKs were tankers who sometimes weren't issued enough rifles.

LIES :) well no not really, but anyways

Actually Ive read articles stating US troops (Actual infantry not jus tankers) using AK-47's due to there M16's constantly jamming up and being worn out due to the harsh climate. I wouldent of brought this up if I hadent read what I told you I have.

[thatguy96]

PROJECT MANAGER SOLDIER WEAPONS SOLDIER WEAPONS ASSESSMENT TEAM REPORT 6-03 (7-31-03) (http://www.bob-oracle.com/SWATreport.htm)

Small Arms and Individual Equipment Lessons Learned 6-10-03 (http://www.sftt.org/article06102003a.html)

MARCORSYSCOM Liason Team 20 April to 25 April 2003 (http://www.sftt.org/PDF/article05122003a.pdf)

You'd think that massive amounts of enviorment related failures and inoperable weapons would've shown up in these documents, especially with the Army's virulent campaign to get the XM8 adopted.

[mi35d]

OMG, not THIS argument AGAIN!!!

The only comments made about the M16 series in the two locations (Afghan and Iraq) were made by:

Troops using the M4 at long distance. The shorter barrel effects muzzle velocity. The suggestion was made to have full length M16's in each squad instead of all M4's. (The M4's, btw, were given high marks in the urban environment.)

There is a habit for people to think that anyone who gets hit immedietly goes down. This comes from Hollywood's movie and TV programs.

The human body is a tough sumbitch and unless you're hit in the head, heart or spinal column you will continue to function until loss of blood pressure as you bleed out. This is pure physiology.

There was a thread like this over on Gunboard.com that had statements from WWII vets who said that even when hit with a 30-06, German soldiers didn't go down right away.

For the last time...the AK isn't perfect and the M16 isn't a POS. Both have their pluses and minuses.

[TacoDelRio]

OMGWTF teh L00s3r5!!!! :cantbeli:

Damn guys.

M16's work. Keep them clean, IE do you friggin' job and take care of it, and it'll take care of you. Stopping power goes nowhere fast if you don't give a rat's ass about shot placement. Shoot some dude in the left pinky toe with a .50BMG, he'll probably just be scared for a minute.

The SR47 looked neato. I'd like to try one. Some of you dudes are saying you'd trust your life to blah blah blah. You trust your life to morons who can't drive worth crap on a daily basis, but wait, here's a foreign AK107 or somethign you've probably never taken to the field, and you're saying you'd trust your life with it. Whatever. I guess right now I'm trusting my life to this Diet Sunkist soda right now. Hope it doesn't contain .05% castor bean oil.

If you truly want stopping power, run into them with a midsive SUV or sedan or something.

[James]

The M-4 I had in A'Stan worked fine. Just sayin'.

[California Joe]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment - don't talk about that which you lack first hand information.

And let me guess you have been in Iraq and Afghanistan to prove otherwise. I'm simply stating what I have heard, dont get so testy over this.

I wasent saying the M16 doesent work in Iraq or Afghanistan, I was saying it is harder to use in Iraq and Afhganistan due to the weather and climate even you can agree with that.

Yes, he has Jackass. You get the "I'm a HUGE Dink" award for the day.

*Leaning on desk* Tell us a story James......

[penna]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment - don't talk about that which you lack first hand information.

And let me guess you have been in Iraq and Afghanistan to prove otherwise. I'm simply stating what I have heard, dont get so testy over this.

I wasent saying the M16 doesent work in Iraq or Afghanistan, I was saying it is harder to use in Iraq and Afhganistan due to the weather and climate even you can agree with that.

Yes, he has Jackass. You get the "I'm a HUGE Dink" award for the day.

*Leaning on desk* Tell us a story James......

rofl rofl

[James]

Someone mentioned training people to use AKs a while back. Well... knowing how to shoot is the most important thing. As for the AK in particular, it takes about 1 minute to learn how to use it.

I prefer the M16/M4. For me they are far more accurate and more comfortable. I used an AK in A-Stan too, and the thing just got too damn hot on full auto.

Something else to think about... All the talk about "stopping power" and the "1 shot kill"... If someone is shooting at you, maybe it's not a good idea to shoot one round at them and wait to see what happens... If it was me, I'd keep shooting until they were no longer a threat. Why the hell do you think mags hold 30 rounds now?

Anyway, let's try and let this thread go the way of all its brothers and cousins...

Away.

[Erik_MAA]

I used an Ak47 in the First Gulf War...

http://www.pakieser.com/Gulf_war.jpg

The reason had nothing to do with the reliability of my M16A1...a fine rifle I used in jungle, desert, and harsh winter environments with no problems.

The reason myself, and other soldiers in my unit, grabbed AK's was for the ammo. There was an in-theatre shortage of M16A1 ammo and we were only issued 90 rounds. Not enough for combat operations.

My AK was a backup weapon for dismounted operations anyway. Mounted I ran with an M60 or a Mk-19.

On the topic of the SR47...I suppose it's a neat idea. But I would think that US SpecOps personnel would know how to use an AK effectively.

[James]

I used an Ak47 in the First Gulf War...

http://www.pakieser.com/Gulf_war.jpg

The reason had nothing to do with the reliability of my M16A1...a fine rifle I used in jungle, desert, and harsh winter environments with no problems.

The reason myself, and other soldiers in my unit, grabbed AK's was for the ammo. There was an in-theatre shortage of M16A1 ammo and we were only issued 90 rounds. Not enough for combat operations.

My AK was a backup weapon for dismounted operations anyway. Mounted I ran with an M60 or a Mk-19.

On the topic of the SR47...I suppose it's a neat idea. But I would think that US SpecOps personnel would know how to use an AK effectively.

Good post. I always like it when someone with real experience presents their thoughts... You are a salty fvck, too...

About Specops... yeah, they know how to use them. If a plain old grunt turned PMC can learn an AK, I sure hope a long tabbed guy can.

[Michael RVR]

Plus its like you said, they already are trained on the M4, so with the SR-47 they could pick it and immediatly it would have the same feel and theyd be used to it all (except the need to pull the mag out as opposed to letting it fall like the standard M4)

Actually you're wrong about that, they implemented some kind of spring system so that the mag would fall out when the catch was depressed. ;)

[wiking]

US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have been using AK-47's because their M16's simply wont operate in the hostile enviroment - don't talk about that which you lack first hand information.

They actually did, they used tank crews for Check point duty, and as one tank crew only has one rifle, and there was a shortage of M16A2's so they used AK's. Don't know if they still do, but they did for some time. (didnt see lot's of ppl had allready said this)

[combat jack]

This is all fine and dandy, but where are the photos of the SR in use?

[thatguy96]

Since it was never in use, I'm guessing there aren't any. I'm guessing there's also only a very small amount of photos that may have been taken during trials...and even if there are, I've never seen them.