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spier
09-09-2003, 05:36 PM
September 11th marks the second anniversary of the aerial attack by terrorists that killed 2,700 people and profoundly changed American society.

September 11th also marks the anniversary, in this case the thirtieth, of the aerial attack by terrorists that led to the murder of more than 3,000 people and profoundly changed Chilean society.

American commentators probably won't mention the 1973 attacks on Chile and their aftermath. They should, because in those attacks it was the U.S. government that played the role of Al Qaeda ? recruiting, training, arming, financing and coordinating the terrorists.

Our involvement in this unsavory affair is now widely recognized. As Secretary of State Colin Powell himself recently acknowledged, "It is not a part of our country's history that we are proud of."

Powell's comment implies a feeling of contrition that I doubt his colleagues in this Administration share. For the ties are remarkably intimate between those who planned the attacks on Chile's White House and those in charge of responding to the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Vice President **** Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld worked in the Nixon cabinet. And in a most telling demonstration of continuity, President Bush appointed Henry Kissinger, the central player in the overthrow of the Chilean government, to chair the Committee investigating the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. (Kissinger withdrew in the face of ferocious worldwide criticism.)

On September 4, 1970 Salvador Allende, founder of the Socialist Party and four time presidential candidate, was elected President of Chile. That Allende was duly and uncontrovertibly elected in a country with a long and rich democratic tradition, a country whose voting turnout is double that of the United States, was irrelevant to President Nixon and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go Communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people," Kissinger declared.

"Nixon was beside himself," Kissinger later wrote. CIA Director Richard Helms remembers Nixon "wanted something done and he didn't much care how."

Initially the U.S. tried to forestall Allende's taking office by financing the kidnapping of the head of the Armed Forces, General Rene Schneider. Schneider resisted and was shot on October 22, 1970 and died three days later. The CIA reportedly paid $35,000 to the assassins.

Having failed with Plan A, Nixon and Kissinger moved to Plan B. This was, according to Nixon's CIA Director Richard Helms to "make the (Chilean) economy scream".

Plan B was successful economically. By cutting off public and private aid, encouraging U.S. corporations to stop sending replacement parts to Chilean factories and fomenting strikes and sabotage in Chile, the U.S. undermined its economy.

But Plan B failed politically. Even in the face of growing economic instability Chile maintained its democratic traditions. And the percentage voting for Allende's Popular Unity coalition continued to increase, from 36 percent in September 1970 to 44 percent in April 1972.

In June 1973 parts of the Chilean Navy attempted a coup and failed. A million people marched to the President's office and demanded arms to be able to defend the government. President Allende stood on the balcony and firmly rejected their request. To the end he was a Constitutionalist.

As were several of the leaders of the Chilean military. These were arrested in the early morning of September 11th. About 8:30AM rogue military units began bombing the Chilean White House. Allende died in his office. General Augusto Pinochet, an admirer of Adolf Hitler, seized power.

Pinochet's military dictatorship killed thousands, tortured tens of thousands and drove more than a million Chileans into exile. A society with a 150 year tradition of democracy and participation suffered under totalitarian rule.

No elections were held at any level for 15 years. Women were arrested for organizing soccer clubs. As Tina Rosenberg observed in the New York Times, "Meetings of any kind were considered subversive ? in the first year after the coup, even Miss Chile was appointed."

The United States rewarded Chile by dramatically increasing both grants and loans. On June 8, 1976, at the height of Pinochet's repression, Kissinger met in private with the dictator and told him, "We are sympathetic to what you are trying to do here".

Having thwarted the possibility that Chile would become a model of democratic socialism, the United States made Chile a model of dictatorial capitalism. Under the hands-on guidance of University of Chicago economists, the Chilean economy was restructured. Unions were outlawed. Real wages plunged. Social spending was slashed. Of 507 public enterprises in l973 only l5 remained in government hands by l980. Chile privatized its social security system.

The experiment failed. Unemployment soared. Malnutrition soared. In l973 Chile had the second highest income in Latin America, next to oil rich Venezuela. By 1988, when the military relinquished the reigns of government, Chile's income had fallen behind that of many countries, including Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay.

As a result of widespread protests, none of which were financed by the United States, Pinochet agreed to step down. In 1989 a new government took office and to some extent has undone the damage wrought by the Pinochet years.

Today Chilean society remains scarred by the events of 9/11/73. The military pushed through a Constitutional provision that allowed it sufficient representation in Congress to block reforms. In l99l General Pinochet declared that if Chile were to try to undertake the kinds of economic initiatives embraced by Allende, "In such circumstances it will be impossible to prevent" the military from intervening once again. Although elections now take place in Chile and political activity has revived, its dimension and vitality, once so rich, is circumscribed.

The United States also felt the effects of 9/11/73. Policymakers were shocked at the revelations of our involvement. And at the same time they learned of Nixon's increasing willingness to wield the powers of government against perceived domestic as well as foreign enemies.

Nixon resigned in August 1974. Congressional investigations of our the use of government here and abroad by the Nixon administration led it to reinforce and strengthen the prohibition on domestic surveillance by the CIA. It banned the use of assassination as a tool of foreign policy. CIA director Richard Helms was indicted and convicted of lying to Congress about US involvement in Chile.

Today the connections between the two September lls remain. While we are pursuing Saddam Hussein in order to try him for war crimes, prosecutors in four countries are pursuing Henry Kissinger to get him to testify about his role in the Chilean coup.

In the aftermath of 9/11/01 the Bush White House has reinstated many of the practices of the Nixon White House and has adopted a similar approach regarding those who oppose its policies. Nixon had an enemies list. Vice President Cheney declares, "You're either for us or against us." The policy of covert interventions in foreign countries has been revived. The CIA now is intimately involved in domestic surveillance. The White House has formally re-established the practice of political assassination.

This September 11th we should remember two anniversaries and reflect on the links between the two.

spier
09-10-2003, 10:37 AM
60 views and no replies, isn't that a bit...strange?

96B
09-10-2003, 10:42 AM
We are scared to reply, the black helicopters may appear outside our windows!

Saranof
09-10-2003, 10:51 AM
It's true...
Just to piss people off, I think I'll remind peopel of that

mocking_loudly
09-10-2003, 11:09 AM
Well, its certainly nothing to be proud of and if some one gets on here and defends these sorts of actions they are simply beyond reasoning with.

Im mocking loudly - this has been a report from my bedroom - good night.

He219
09-10-2003, 11:15 AM
http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/kiss-pino.jpg

"We welcomed the overthrow of the Communist-inclined government here." By overthrowing Allende, you have done a great service to the West, Kissinger told him. "We are not out to weaken your position."
More in the article Kissinger Declassified (http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/kissinger-declass.htm)


http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030909/i/1063126879.3288547423.jpg

File photo showing Chilean President Salvador Allende (R) alongside Cuban President Fidel Castro (news - web sites), during his visit to Chile in 1972. Some 3,000 to 4,000 people were killed or forcibly disappeared during former dictator Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites)'s anti-communist crackdown, after he toppled the Socialist leader Allende. The media's obsession with September 11, a date burned into the Chilean psyche long before the 2001 World Trade Center attacks turned the date into a symbol for Americans, has shocked people with spine-chilling testimony and fresh evidence on some of the shadier episodes of the dictatorship. *******/FILE

http://www.uncc.edu/latinweb/National/Pinoch/Pinoch2.jpghttp://www.uncc.edu/latinweb/National/Pinoch/Pinoch1.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030909/i/1063124607.4093886559.jpg

File hoto from September 11, 1973 shows the Chilean presidential palace La Moneda under fire during the coup, led by then Army General Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites), in Santiago. Some 3,000 to 4,000 people were killed or forcibly disappeared during Pinochet's anti-communist crackdown, after he toppled Socialist President Salvador Allende. The media's obsession with September 11, a date burned into the Chilean psyche long before the 2001 World Trade Center attacks turned the date into a symbol for Americans, has shocked people with spine-chilling testimony and fresh evidence on some of the shadier episodes of the dictatorship. CHILE OUT NO SALES *******/La Tercera

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030909/capt.1063133319.chile_30_years_later_ny194.jpg

Members of the four-men military junta who seized power in Chile on Sept. 11, 1973 in a bloody coup against President Salvador Allende, salute during Independence Day celebrations Sept. 18, 1973. Seen from left: Air Force Commander Gen. Gustavo Leigh, Army chief and coup leader Gen. Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites), Navy chief Adm. Jose Toribio Merino, and Police Director Gen. Cesar Mendoza. (AP Photo/FILE)

http://www.chromehorse.net/images/pinochet.jpg

Pinochet (seated) at a press conference shortly after the 1973 coup.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030910/i/1063204244.3355615237.jpg

A Chilean policeman patrols the National Stadium prior to a World Cup qualifying match between Peru and Chile on September 9, 2003 (R), almost 30 years after the same stadium was turned into a detention center for thousands of people taken in for questioning following the September 11, 1973 coup by General Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites) (L). September 11 will mark the 30th anniversary of the military coup led by Pinochet, which toppled the government of President Salvador Allende and ushered in 17 years of miltary rule. For many, the day is painful reminder of 17 years of repression and human rights abuses in which more than 3,000 died under Pinochet's military government. But for others, September 11 is the day the general saved Chile from Marxism. *******/Mariana Bazo (R) and FILE



http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030909/i/1063125951.2416935019.jpg

Former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites) is shown in this file picture prior to stepping down as commander of the armed forces, in Santiago on March 11, 1998. Some 3,000 to 4,000 people were killed or forcibly disappeared during Pinochet's anti-communist crackdown, after he toppled Socialist President Salvador Allende. The media's obsession with September 11, a date burned into the Chilean psyche long before the 2001 World Trade Center attacks turned the date into a symbol for Americans, has shocked people with spine-chilling testimony and fresh evidence on some of the shadier episodes of the dictatorship. *******/Rickey Rogers/FILE

Trigger
09-10-2003, 11:42 AM
60 views and no replies, isn't that a bit...strange?
No it's not strange. Why should we acknowledge your obvious attempt to mock our greatest national tragedy.

We can't change what happened in 1973. There is no question that those actions were atrocious, but you or I cannot undo them.

spier
09-10-2003, 11:57 AM
60 views and no replies, isn't that a bit...strange?
No it's not strange. Why should we acknowledge your obvious attempt to mock our greatest national tragedy.

We can't change what happened in 1973. There is no question that those actions were atrocious, but you or I cannot undo them. "If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver." Done.

I tried to make a point, not to mock you. Oh, and wouldn't the genocide of the indians be your "greatest national tragedy"?

front
09-10-2003, 12:00 PM
That is a very incisive article spier... what is it's source? (I know it was not "FOX News" anyway... hehe).

Pinochet was in danger of being extradited to Spain from Britain a couple of years ago to "help" in the investigations by two Spanish judges of the 4,000-plus political murders believed to have been committed during his 1973-1990 rule.

There is a good section on the BBC site here detailing the attempt:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/10/98/the_pinochet_file/199456.stm

One incident occurred, during the debate on whether to extradite him or not, which has stuck in my mind. Baroness Thatcher came out in support of Pinochet at the time and called him a "great democrat". I can't find an online source for this but I remember it from a news report. It struck me as a really strange comment.

Today when I read the post above by spier this line stuck out:

"Pinochet's military dictatorship killed thousands, tortured tens of thousands and drove more than a million Chileans into exile."

... and I remembered the "great democrat" label again. The above are not the actions of a great democrat. They are the actions of a tyrant...

cheers

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He219
09-10-2003, 12:06 PM
spier, you really are one contemptuous bastard. What Trigger was referring to as 'our greatest national tragedy' were not the events that transpired by supporting a dictator in Chile, Nicaragua, Cuba, etc. , the plight of the American Indians or that of any negative effects of our foreign policy history, but the tragedy of violating other people's civil rights in order to determine the security of our own self-determination with the threats we percievedly were facing in the free-world at that time.

:roll:

I have been to the Presidential Palace in Santiago where President Salvador Allende made his farewell speech on the balcony shortly before putting a bullet into his own head. It was a tragedy, but we must focus on helping people protect the right to their own peaceful self-determination insead of finding fault with others' shortcommings. Look at yourself first.

Saranof
09-10-2003, 01:41 PM
spier, you really are one contemptuous bastard. What Trigger was referring to as 'our greatest national tragedy' were not the events that transpired by supporting a dictator in Chile, Nicaragua, Cuba, etc. , the plight of the American Indians or that of any negative effects of our foreign policy history, but the tragedy of violating other people's civil rights in order to determine the security of our own self-determination with the threats we percievedly were facing in the free-world at that time.

:roll:

I have been to the Presidential Palace in Santiago where President Salvador Allende made his farewell speech on the balcony shortly before putting a bullet into his own head. It was a tragedy, but we must focus on helping people protect the right to their own peaceful self-determination insead of finding fault with others' shortcommings. Look at yourself first.


The same about Iran? The attempt on Cuba?

He219
09-10-2003, 01:44 PM
'Cause and Effect, It's Sycronicity'.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030910/i/1063212557.3221373017.jpg

Hortensia Bussi de Allende (C), the widow of former President Salvador Allende, is accompanied by her daughter Isable Allende (R) and Chilean President Ricardo Lagos after a painting of her late husband was innaugurated at La Moneda Palace, September 10, 2003. He has been dead for 30 years but Allende is still idolized and demonized in his country, three decades after the September 11, 1973, coup that toppled him. The doctor who became the world's first democratically elected Marxist president is idolized by the left for his dream of a peaceful socialist revolution, cut short by General Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites)'s brutal 17-year anti-communist crusade. *******/Mariana Bazo

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030910/i/1063211564.4228038736.jpg

Police search for explosives at the statue of Allende outside La Moneda presidential palace in Santiago after a suspected package was left there, September 10, 2003. September 11 is the 30th anniversary of the military coup by Pinochet, overthrowing President Salvador Allende in 1973. For many, the day is painful reminder of 17 years of repression and human rights abuses in which more than 3,000 died under Pinochet´s military government, but for others Sept 11 is the day the general saved Chile from Marxism. *******/Carlos Barria

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030910/thumb.1063215842.chile_coup_anniversary_scl103.jpg
Enlarge (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030910/168/58biq.html)

A police bomb squad robot is used to manipulate a suspicious envelope placed next to the monument dedicated to Salvador Allende, the president toppled in the Sep. 11, 1973 coup led by Gen. Augusto Pinochet. Police triggered a controlled explosion of the package wich had the word 'Bomb' written on it but had no real explosives, in Santiago, Chile, Wednesday, Sep. 10,

SOG
09-10-2003, 02:18 PM
The White House has formally re-established the practice of political assassination.

excellent.

uhm 60 views and no replies, i dont get it, you post something from US history and....... do you have a question or statement or do you just post articles for fun? i mean are you bored or just trolling? if you want to discuss this or certain things about it then start the conversation. cmon dig up more historic instances and post em or was this just another attempt at bush character assassination "omg some practices of one president are the practices of another" (reals in horror). if your just posting a historic story then shouldnt it go in "history topics"? geez, total CF.

Seiyuuki
09-10-2003, 04:26 PM
Switzerland played key role in the slave trade

Switzerland’s involvement in the African slave trade runs deeper than the history books suggest.

As Unesco marks the International Day for the Remembrance of the Slave Trade and its Abolition, history professor Hans Fässler told swissinfo it was time Switzerland faced up to its past.

Being a landlocked country did not stop Switzerland from playing its part in the transatlantic slave trade triangle, linking West Africa, America and Europe between the 16th and 19th centuries.

Swiss banks, for example, owned as much as a third of the Compagnie des Indes, a French company that held a monopoly over the West African slave trade, while trading houses financed and did business with slave traders.

Now that slavery has been internationally recognised as a crime against humanity, Fässler says Switzerland should take a fresh look at its past.

swissinfo: How do you explain the international community’s increasing interest in the African slave trade?

Hans Fässler: These international remembrance days reflect above all the willingness of countries, including Switzerland, to shed light on their past. These days there are many calls for reflection but also for an analysis of the consequences of slavery on today’s world.

We had to wait for the end of the Cold War before nations were ready to re-examine that chapter of history. Beforehand, the subject was completely taboo and those who brought the subject up were considered enemies of the state.

But the repercussions of colonisation and the slave trade are too important to be ignored. So much so that the global conference against racism in Durban in 2001 reopened the debate by recognising the transatlantic slave trade as a crime against humanity.

swissinfo: What concrete steps has Switzerland taken towards shedding some light on this chapter of its history?

H.F.: In the political arena, it’s an issue that still needs to advance.

But in the academic sphere, Switzerland’s role is coming under increasing scrutiny. Basel is trying to organise an international conference on the matter, while a book on Switzerland’s participation in the slave trade will be published shortly.

swissinfo: Why is this issue so important in your opinion?

H.F.: Like all western countries, Switzerland must answer questions over the source of its wealth.

Following the legal cases involving victims of the Nazi and Apartheid regimes, Switzerland must now look at this other chapter of its history.

swissinfo: So, is it a case of waiting for new compensation claims?

H.F.: Certain groups are looking into it. The main countries involved in the African slave trade are asking that western countries recognise their responsibilities.

For my part, I believe that Europe has an obligation to right its wrongs, but how it will do so still has to be decided. It could do so through symbolic acts, such as setting up new channels of cooperation with African countries, or by paying what they’re owed through development aid.

swissinfo-interview: Vanda Janka (translation: Joanne Shields)

Copyright © Swissinfo / Neue Zürcher Zeitung AG

spier
09-10-2003, 04:40 PM
Neat.

Look, I know you have problems, but as I've said many times before: I am Not from Switzerland.

Ok, if you read the following text all the way through then you might start to comprehend the concept I am trying to explain to you:

Ready?

Go!

I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition. I will not fill up Hood's message board with endless repetition.

Starting to take the ****ing hint?

Nawlins
09-10-2003, 04:44 PM
Somebody leave the toolbox open again?

He219
09-10-2003, 05:05 PM
This may be the point where Hood presses the 'EJECT' button.
:roll:

If Switzerland isn't the 'land of Cheese and Neutrality' then Sweeden is a distant second. The cheese part is the catch, Jarlsberg?


Hehe, nice one Hood! rofl

Beowulf
09-10-2003, 06:37 PM
I tried to make a point, not to mock you

What point exactly Spier?
-b

Trigger
09-10-2003, 06:40 PM
Hehe, nice one Hood!

It's good to be the king! rofl

ibstolidude
09-10-2003, 07:31 PM
"If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver." Done.

I tried to make a point, not to mock you. Oh, and wouldn't the genocide of the indians be your "greatest national tragedy"?

What is the point SPIER?


wouldn't the genocide of the indians be your "greatest national tragedy"? - is that the point? - because although it was a terrible tragedy, which has effects on the history and geneology of many Americans, it was not national (often taking parts in regions/territories not yet apart of the nation)...I would be more inclined to consider the Civil War the "greatest national tragedy"...but that wouldn't fit neatly into an agenda...

pick a country ANY country in the world, the more sophisticated and integrated in to international society the better and one can show the littany of mistakes, errors, triumphs and tragedies that have taken place of the "growth" of the country... and it is still amazing how quickly the US has grown in it's "short" existence.
or you can just keep on with your childish playground routine of,
"You did something wrong and like 6 (insert you own number) years ago you supported so and so and they BAD." - "and this one time at band camp, this country, America, they said that they didn't support the rebels in xx country and they did. NO one in any other place WOULD EVER do that. They must be imperialists."

farking dolt...
of all the amazing things happening in the world, all the good and the bad, the policies that should be questioned, the strategies, the ideals...and this is the focus of your debate...a "haha look what you did?"...gimme a break

front
09-11-2003, 01:30 AM
Beowulf posted:

"What point exactly Spier?"

in reply to spier

"I tried to make a point, not to mock you"

spier brought up 09.11.73 as an anniversary which means something to another group of people, nearly two generations of Chilean citizens.

http://www.lakota.clara.net/

He meant that the date "September 11th" is not the property of the US.
You now know that now from his post.

Did so many on this board know that September 11th had an equally brutal memory for the people of Chile before he posted?

His timing is however distasteful, coming so soon, but two years after the attacks by Al Queda on the US. (And you know it is spier... you are trolling those who would react with a kneejerk to your post of that article with it's references to US interference in Chilean internal affairs). :-(

cheers

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