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Sayeret
10-05-2004, 05:55 PM
IDF: 13 UN employees were arrested in past 4 years for terror links

UNRWA employees "are exploiting the organization's vehicles in order to support terror-related activities," head of IDF Operations Directorate Brig.-Gen. Yisrael Ziv told reporters at an IDF press conference in Tel Aviv Tuesday night.

The IDF revealed on Tuesday that in the past four years of violence, 13 Palestinians employed by the United Nations Works and Relief Agency were arrested for alleged involvement in terror activities. Some of those arrested were released and never indicted.

The IDF on Tuesday has hastened a retreat on the rocket-or-stretcher and the UN van affair, conceding that its footage of a Palestinian allegedly loading a Kassam rocket onto an UNRWA vehicle might indeed have been a stretcher as the UN organization has claimed since the controversy erupted this Sunday.

The IDF pulled from its Web site a video filmed by an unmanned aerial drone flying over the Gaza Strip, which Israel had asserted on Sunday clearly depicted a man loading a weapon onto the UNRWA ambulance.

An anonymous "senior security official" told Israel Radio that Israeli officials at all levels handled the entire affair in an "amateurish" fashion.

"The tests being conducted now should have been carried out before the tape was released to the media," the official said, adding that the army's removal of the video from its website "speaks for itself."

A senior IDF source said the army is "not innocent of mistakes. There is always the danger that important information will not be checked well enough."

During a press conference in Tel Aviv Tuesday night, the army showed an extended video - the entire clip of the UNRWA vehicle in the northern Gaza Strip – as well as video that shows Palestinian combatants preparing mines presumably for IDF tanks operating in the area. The army said the mines were big enough to destroy tanks. At the same time the frame showed video images of a UN vehicle standing nearby the Palestinians laying the mines.

The video showed several oblong objects loaded onto the van. Asked if the army could tell if Palestinians loaded a Kassam rocket or stretcher onto the UN vehicle, Ziv said, "I suggest we don't deal with the object but rather with the context."

"The UN vans are providing cover for combatants planting bombs," the Ziv said. In addition, the IDF suspects that the Palestinians were using UN assets as shields.

The estimated length of Kassam rockets varies widely and their weight can go anywhere from 7kg up to 30 kg. Previous surveillance video shows men running with these rockets.

At issue are two smudges on the grainy image, one at the fore and the other at the back of the oblong object carried under the arm of a man in the image. UNRWA has claimed that the smudges are flaps of a stretcher, the IDF that they are rocket fins.

A tight-lipped IDF released a one-sentence statement saying that "the IDF is reviewing the analysis of the footage in which UNRWA vehicles are seen involved in suspicious activity in the combat zone in Gaza."

Meanwhile, other sections of the government, including the Foreign Ministry, scrambled with little success to get clarification on the video, which was also published on the much-surfed Ministry of Foreign Affairs website.

IAF officers who spoke with the Jerusalem Post Tuesday said that the onus of the workload on the crews operating and analyzing the data gathered by the unmanned drones is overwhelming. "They've been on war-footing for four years now," said one person.

Budgetary shortfalls have forced the IDF to slash its reliance on reservists over the past several years. Yet the reservist officers, NCOs and other soldiers dealing with the drones are constantly called to duty. Each hour of flight requires several hours of manpower including a remote control flyer, someone to monitor the instruments, and then others to analyze the data.

The drones fly in circular patterns above fixed or moving targets in the Gaza Strip. The strip's size, barely 340 sq. km. – has made it a perfect testing ground for the unmanned aerial vehicles. Often, said the officer, the IAF distorts the image it publishes for security reasons.

While the images published by the IDF this week may or may not depict a man loading a Kassam rocket onto a UN vehicle, both IDF staff and some UN workers, speaking on the condition of anonymity, agree that members of terrorist groups work in and sometimes exploit UN agencies.

Last year a similar IAF drone filmed masked gunmen jumping out of UN ambulances during an IDF incursion into the strip.

On Monday, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan agreed to investigate Israeli allegations that Palestinian terrorists are using its ambulances, even though he supports initial findings by his staff in the Gaza Strip that the claim is untrue.

Speaking to reporters, Annan's spokesman Fred Eckhard also addressed statements made by UNRWA director-general Peter Hansen that Hamas supporters were likely on its payroll.

"We don't hire terrorists," said Eckhard

seruriermarshal
10-05-2004, 06:56 PM
Wait , UN always say they are fair .

:roll:

BarkingSquirrel
10-05-2004, 07:15 PM
F-f-fair?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/4_1_72.gif

username
10-05-2004, 10:11 PM
so if im terrorfied does that mean im associated with terror? and maybe someone will come and bomb my house?

GrimmyRX
10-06-2004, 12:46 AM
The UN employs a lot of people. When you have an organization that employs a lot of people and very little budget to work with, you'll get people who will fall through the cracks.

Javehn
10-06-2004, 02:42 AM
The UN employs a lot of people. When you have an organization that employs a lot of people and very little budget to work with, you'll get people who will fall through the cracks.

Really ? Let me give you other perspective . UNRWA employes a bit more then 24,000 (Source : http://www.un.org/unrwa/employment/organization.html ) . In Gaza and West Bank it's approx let's say 17,000 of them (the rest are in Jordan and Lebanon) . In Gaza alone let's assume the number is around 10,000 employes . 13 people of 10,000 is aprox 0.12 percent . 0.12 percent sounds small ? It's approx the same percentage of US army ground forces from USA population . But let's not forget that those are only the people who got caught , and in reality there are a lot lot more (inevidable , sence most of them are Palestinian local workers) who are giving aid and sometime directly participate in terrorist acts . I would say UNRWA is growing an army inside , not bad for "people who will fall through the cracks" , as you put it . Unless offcorse you ae talking about the entire UN organisation , which then , would be actually plain stupid thing to say .

So , yea ... You were saying ?

citizen-k
10-06-2004, 08:39 AM
http://rotter.net/User_files/forum/4163ccd117ca9ae1.jpg

Olybrius
10-06-2004, 12:19 PM
Israel is undermining its credibility


The State of Israel, via the Israel Defense Forces, the intelligence community and the Foreign Ministry, and with the encouragement of the prime and defense ministers, has become entangled in and embarrassed by the affair of the Qassam-or-stretcher in Gaza. In its eagerness to show that the Palestinians will stoop to any means, Israel behaved with reckless haste and injured its pretensions to superiority over the Palestinians with regard to credibility. This has implications not merely for public relations, but also for diplomacy, and is even liable to weaken Israel in the legal arena.
This does not mean that the United Nations, and especially its Relief and Works Agency, is completely guilt-free. Their identification with the Palestinians is clear and open. But the question is not whether Qassam crews, or other groups of armed men en route to commit attacks, really make use of UN vehicles. There have certainly such been cases, just as, in the 1950s, there were cases in which IDF units, including some well-known to Ariel Sharon, made operational use of either genuine or fake UN observer vehicles.

There is only one issue at stake here: How the Israeli establishment came to commit a gaffe that increases skepticism about official announcements made by the state, its army and its ambassadors - and not for the first time. Last October, during another aerial operation in Gaza, two major generals - then-Air Force commander Dan Halutz and head of the Operations Directorate, Israel Ziv - were found to have deliberately misled the Israeli public via the military correspondents. For the sake of gaining an operational advantage, the IDF published false announcements about its use of helicopters, with the blessing of the chief of staff and the defense minister. Then, the problem was essentially domestic. Today, the conflict is with foreign parties, who in the future will be much harder to convince.

It is possible that the Palestinians who were filmed putting a long object into a UN vehicle were, indeed, handling a Qassam rocket. Possible - but that is an insufficient level of probability. Israel did not prepare in advance for the presentation of an alternative explanation, such as a stretcher (something that could reasonably be expected to be found in the hands of a medical crew summoned to treat casualties), and therefore it could not refute it. After four years of promises by the army and the intelligence agencies about how carefully their personnel cross-check information before tagging someone for a targeted killing, the defense establishment has demonstrated hasty amateurism. Now, it will have to work much harder to prove its claims.

Any idiot would have assumed that before publishing such a weighty charge against the UN, the IDF spokesman, the chief of staff, the head of the Foreign Ministry's public relations department and the responsible ministers, including Sharon, would have examined the entire chain of actions committed by the alleged gang - from placing the object in the vehicle to unloading the rocket or even firing it at the Negev. At the same time, the intelligence agencies should have gathered supplementary information to make certain of the license plate number and the identities of the men who were filmed. But reliable military sources have admitted over the last two days that none of this was done.

No blood was spilled in the Qassam-or-stretcher affair, but it was the verbal equivalent of friendly fire. It must not be allowed to pass in silence. The chain of failures must be investigated, and personal and systemic conclusions must be drawn.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485518.html

GrimmyRX
10-06-2004, 07:10 PM
The UN employs a lot of people. When you have an organization that employs a lot of people and very little budget to work with, you'll get people who will fall through the cracks.

Really ? Let me give you other perspective . UNRWA employes a bit more then 24,000 (Source : http://www.un.org/unrwa/employment/organization.html ) . In Gaza and West Bank it's approx let's say 17,000 of them (the rest are in Jordan and Lebanon) . In Gaza alone let's assume the number is around 10,000 employes . 13 people of 10,000 is aprox 0.12 percent . 0.12 percent sounds small ? It's approx the same percentage of US army ground forces from USA population . But let's not forget that those are only the people who got caught , and in reality there are a lot lot more (inevidable , sence most of them are Palestinian local workers) who are giving aid and sometime directly participate in terrorist acts . I would say UNRWA is growing an army inside , not bad for "people who will fall through the cracks" , as you put it . Unless offcorse you ae talking about the entire UN organisation , which then , would be actually plain stupid thing to say .

So , yea ... You were saying ?

.12 eh? Well, ok, lets look at Funding. It's very simple to compair ratios and numbers without looking at the funding behind it.

Now, I'm not totally clear on the numbers, but, what, the US has over 1 mill men in uniform with a BIG ASS BUDGET.

How many people does the UN employ in total? What's their budget?

What would be the cost of flying foreign workers instead of hiring locally?

How much good does a locally hired pali do as opposed to how much harm?

In an area like palistine, you take what you can get. so when the choice comes between 1) bankruping yourself by hiring and flying in foreign workers 2) hiring corrupt buggers that won't do any good at all or 3) hiring men who might help terrorists but can save lives, well...

Eh, I suppose it's all up to point of view.

Moledet
10-06-2004, 07:48 PM
GrimmyRX
You are right, they save Palesitnian lives, but they kill Israelis, sounds like it fits the UN perfectly.

GrimmyRX
10-06-2004, 08:25 PM
GrimmyRX
You are right, they save Palesitnian lives, but they kill Israelis, sounds like it fits the UN perfectly.
Lives are lives, and whilst the fact that they help kill Israelis is so fu*ked up, the hard facts are, if the UN didn't hire these guys, there would be no one to man the hospitals and the ambulances and the food distribution areas, etc.

Yeah, it's a pretty screwed up solution, and buggery hell I'd wish that they didn't have to use it, but... What would you do?

Moledet
10-06-2004, 08:53 PM
GrimmyRX
You are right, they save Palesitnian lives, but they kill Israelis, sounds like it fits the UN perfectly.
Lives are lives, and whilst the fact that they help kill Israelis is so fu*ked up, the hard facts are, if the UN didn't hire these guys, there would be no one to man the hospitals and the ambulances and the food distribution areas, etc.

Yeah, it's a pretty screwed up solution, and buggery hell I'd wish that they didn't have to use it, but... What would you do?
I would take all the 10 billion dollar of Araffat and give them to the UN, if he doesn't use the money for his people that the UN will.

usa320
10-06-2004, 09:49 PM
I continue to show my support for resolution 690, which says the UN should STFU and demands they suck ****.

:lol:

GrimmyRX
10-07-2004, 03:50 AM
GrimmyRX
You are right, they save Palesitnian lives, but they kill Israelis, sounds like it fits the UN perfectly.
Lives are lives, and whilst the fact that they help kill Israelis is so fu*ked up, the hard facts are, if the UN didn't hire these guys, there would be no one to man the hospitals and the ambulances and the food distribution areas, etc.

Yeah, it's a pretty screwed up solution, and buggery hell I'd wish that they didn't have to use it, but... What would you do?
I would take all the 10 billion dollar of Araffat and give them to the UN, if he doesn't use the money for his people that the UN will.

*shrug* then convince someone to send that solution to your UN rep and see if it gets passed in.

Geezah
10-07-2004, 12:00 PM
I continue to show my support for resolution 690, which says the UN should STFU and demands they suck ****.

:lol:

Amen, I'm willing to donate my week old stool to the U.N. because I care about them that much :|