Weapons of the 2003 invasion of Iraq

[Sayeret]

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Weapons%20of%20the%202003%20invasion%20and%20occupation%20of%20Iraq

[thatguy96]

Reminds me, I finally got around to updating the SPR entry on Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_0_Special_Purpose_Rifle

[pettifogger]

Um...your enty changes are filled with errors.

You wrote it was eventually type classified by the Navy as the Mk 12 and that no Army designation beyond "SPR" appears to exist. The Army doesn't have separate designations for systems that already have Navy Mk numbers. Hence, the Mk 19 grenade launcher and the Mk 23 OHWS are called the Mk 19 and Mk 23 in the Army.

You wrote that both the Mk 12 Mod 0 and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the PRI Gen III Free-floating tube. The Mk 12 Mod 1 uses the M4 Match Free-floating RAS. The SPR/A and SPR/B also use the M4 Match Free-floating RAS. There is no M5 Match FF RAS. The M4 Match FF RAS is not made out of carbon fiber. It is extruded aluminum.

You wrote that they all use PRI front flip-up sights. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the KAC rail forend flip-up sight. The original SPR used an older PRI-flipup front sight that had an elevation knob. The newer PRI flip-up front sight is used because it is easier to install. It clamps around the barrel, without regard to the channels in the barrel for the front sight block. There was no issue with the PRI Gen III forearm. You may be thinking of the ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3 sleeve which differs from the earlier ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2 Mod-L by having cut-outs to accommodate the larger barrel nut of the Gen III forearm.

You wrote that the SPR used the ARMS #40 flip up rear sight and that the rest of the models use the KAC 600-Meter flip up sight. The SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use the ARMS #40. Only the ARMS #40 and KAC 300-meter sight will work with the ARMS #38 sleeve. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the KAC 600-meter sight.

[thatguy96]

You wrote it was eventually type classified by the Navy as the Mk 12 and that no Army designation beyond "SPR" appears to exist. The Army doesn't have separate designations for systems that already have Navy Mk numbers. Hence, the Mk 19 grenade launcher and the Mk 23 OHWS are called the Mk 19 and Mk 23 in the Army.
I still treat those as Navy designations, and the Army is just using theirs. I did speak incorrectly when I said the Army had none.


You wrote that both the Mk 12 Mod 0 and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the PRI Gen III Free-floating tube. The Mk 12 Mod 1 uses the M4 Match Free-floating RAS. The SPR/A and SPR/B also use the M4 Match Free-floating RAS. There is no M5 Match FF RAS. The M4 Match FF RAS is not made out of carbon fiber. It is extruded aluminum.
If you go back to the threads linked to from ar15.com's forums, which says that only the SPR/A and SPR/B use the KAC RAS. That's what the guys at MSTN and Armalite wrote from what I remember. They said that all Mk 12s use the PRI FF tube (Gen III). I did screw up on the M4/M5 RAS thing, but I've done that before.


You wrote that they all use PRI front flip-up sights. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the KAC rail forend flip-up sight. The original SPR used an older PRI-flipup front sight that had an elevation knob. The newer PRI flip-up front sight is used because it is easier to install. It clamps around the barrel, without regard to the channels in the barrel for the front sight block. There was no issue with the PRI Gen III forearm. You may be thinking of the ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3 sleeve which differs from the earlier ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2 Mod-L by having cut-outs to accommodate the larger barrel nut of the Gen III forearm.
This is the first I've heard mention of a KAC flip up front being used, it didn't come up before in our discussions of this. The sleeve stuff was stuff I had insufficient info on, and that is simply wrong. I guess I overlooked the issue of the KAC flip up front, not thinking about the fact that with the FF RAS it would simply be easier.


You wrote that the SPR used the ARMS #40 flip up rear sight and that the rest of the models use the KAC 600-Meter flip up sight. The SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use the ARMS #40. Only the ARMS #40 and KAC 300-meter sight will work with the ARMS #38 sleeve. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the KAC 600-meter sight.
I've only heard of the KAC 600-meter and ARMS #40 being used, and this is again from the guys at MSTN and Armalite via those linked threads over at ar15.com in the other thread.

[pettifogger]

I suggest you read the threads (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=198050) more closely, since at no point did anyone write that the Mod 0 and Mod 1 use the same forearm. This thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=130&t=143864) shows pictures of Mk 12 Mod 1s being assembled. They all have KAC foreends.



If you go back to the threads linked to from ar15.com's forums, which says that only the SPR/A and SPR/B use the KAC RAS. That's what the guys at MSTN and Armalite wrote from what I remember. They said that all Mk 12s use the PRI FF tube (Gen III).
No, they did not say that. If you read Wes Grant's excellent post (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=134&t=141410), he wrote that the "The Mod 1 was much like the second iteration." The second iteration is the SPR/A and SPR/B. You can look at the MSTN (http://www.mstn.biz/Uppers_Main.asp) page and see what they call the Mod 0 and Mod 1.



This is the first I've heard mention of a KAC flip up front being used, it didn't come up before in our discussions of this.
Again to quote from Wes Grant's post.


THEN CAME A SECOND VERSION OF THE SPR. SOME CALL IT THE SPR-A. OTHERS REFER TO IT AS THE SPR-B. IF I ONCE KNEW WHAT WAS CORRECT, I HAVE SINCE FORGOTTEN.

THE SECOND ITERATION WAS BASICALLY THE SAME CORE WEAPON. DIFFERENT COMPONENTS USED WERE:

KAC 600-METER REAR SIGHT

KAC M4 MATCH FREE FLOATING RAS FOREND

KAC FOREND RAIL FLIP UP FRONT

ARMS #22 HIGH RINGS

LEUPOLD TS-30 SCOPE [SOME EARLY ONES ALSO HADTHE LRM3, I HAVE BEEN INFORMED.]

HARRIS BIPOD

[king_nothing100]

So it was only America Vs. Iraq?, sounds like a forthcoming hollywood movie.

[thatguy96]

I suggest you read the threads (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=198050) more closely, since at no point did anyone write that the Mod 0 and Mod 1 use the same forearm. This thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=130&t=143864) shows pictures of Mk 12 Mod 1s being assembled. They all have KAC foreends.


THE MOD I WAS MUCH LIKE THE SECOND ITERATION. THE ONLY CHANGE WAS A SWITCH TO THE NEW LEUPOLD TS-30A2 SCOPE IN ARMS #22 HIGH RINGS.

I misread this. It's slightly confusing to talk about the SPR as the first iteration and the SPR/A and SPR/B as the second iteration. It is clearly spelled out right there though, no doubt about it. That's what I had remembered, and I was treating the SPR Mk 12 Mod 0 as sort of the second iteration, mainly because I missed the usage of "first iteration" in the line about the Mk 12 Mod 0. This is probably why Bartocci chose to split them up simply between "Proto 1" and "Proto 2" in his book.




This is the first I've heard mention of a KAC flip up front being used, it didn't come up before in our discussions of this.
Again to quote from Wes Grant's post.


THEN CAME A SECOND VERSION OF THE SPR. SOME CALL IT THE SPR-A. OTHERS REFER TO IT AS THE SPR-B. IF I ONCE KNEW WHAT WAS CORRECT, I HAVE SINCE FORGOTTEN.

THE SECOND ITERATION WAS BASICALLY THE SAME CORE WEAPON. DIFFERENT COMPONENTS USED WERE:

KAC 600-METER REAR SIGHT

KAC M4 MATCH FREE FLOATING RAS FOREND

KAC FOREND RAIL FLIP UP FRONT

ARMS #22 HIGH RINGS

LEUPOLD TS-30 SCOPE [SOME EARLY ONES ALSO HADTHE LRM3, I HAVE BEEN INFORMED.]

HARRIS BIPOD

Definitly missed that, that's my fault, but I had mentioned earlier, that it did make more sense to have used it. I also don't think it came up specifically in the discussions, since I still haven't added front sight to that table. All the more reason to do so.