Never mind terrorists, Saudi gov't condemns 'Jewish' Barbies

[StarvingStudent47]

Saudi police say Barbie dolls a threat to morality

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi Arabia's religious police have declared Barbie dolls a threat to morality, complaining that the revealing clothes of the "Jewish" toy -- already banned in the kingdom -- are offensive to Islam.

The Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, as the religious police are officially known, lists the dolls on a section of its Web site devoted to items deemed offensive to the conservative Saudi interpretation of Islam.

"Jewish Barbie dolls, with their revealing clothes and shameful postures, accessories and tools are a symbol of decadence to the perverted West. Let us beware of her dangers and be careful," said a poster on the site.

The poster, plastered with pictures of Barbie in short dresses and tight pants, and with a few of her accessories, reads: "A strange request. A little girl asks her mother: Mother, I want jeans, a low-cut shirt, and a swimsuit like Barbie."

Such posters are distributed to schools and hung in the streets by the religious police, or muttawa, an independent body affiliated with the office of the Prime Minister.

CNN story here (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/10/saudi.barbie.ap/index.html)

My take: And we call the Saudi government an ally on the war on terrorism? Valuable friends when confronting Muslim extremists? I have to wonder...

[Ratamacue]

Beware of other people's skin!!!

[front]

"The Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice"

This is a classic English title for a government agency. In any state, country, or territory. The C.P.V.P.V. It sounds like a virulent venereal disease...


A good article here from the CS Monitor gives some background into Saudi Arabian views on the West, the country which would allow such a group to exist, and that plastic doll. Some really good quotes... CSM likes the perspective... such as:

"Crown Prince Abdullah warned Islamic scholars in the aftermath [of 09.11.2003, ed.] that it was "their duty to be careful.... I advise you not to get emotional or provoked by anyone.""

Well of course he would say that with American guns breathing down his neck... hehe. And:

"The fact that more than one-third of the original 300 detainees sent to Cuba's Guantanamo Bay from Afghanistan were Saudi nationals tells something about how they were recruited."

Ouch. The CSM does not tend to pull punches. Great article... well worth the five minutes to read it.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0607/p08s01-wome.html

Saudi radicalism springs from deep source

By Scott Peterson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA – A toy store may be an unlikely window into the extreme environment that created anti-West hijackers. But in Saudi Arabia – home to 15 of the 19 hijackers from the Sept. 11 attacks – the doll lineup hints at how the deep currents of puritanical Islam shape this nation.

You won't find Barbie on the shelves here. The doll is outlawed as a symbol of Western immorality. Despite official pro-American policies, fleets of gas-guzzling, US-made cars on the streets, and Western-style shopping in one gleaming mall after another, Saudi Arabia is a nation where all citizens are officially adherents of the hardline Wahhabi branch of Islam, and the punishment for forsaking Islam is death.

Arabs fight Islamists, with few rules

It is a nation born of a brutal religious history, infused with a powerful sense of holy war and a view of the world that divides humanity into believers and "infidels." It's a view that has changed little since Sept. 11, experts say – and could yield more militants.

"Segments of Saudi society have never been so radical as they are now," says Ali al-Ahmed, a Saudi exile who runs the Virginia-based Saudi Institute. A handful of "radical teachers" have been "infected by bin Laden," he says, "so we are going to have another young generation of bin Ladens."

A radical act

For some here, the banning of Western cultural icons is the tip of a radical iceberg that indicates a level of intolerance that helped create the militant views of the Saudi hijackers.

"Banning Barbie is an act of radicalism," argues a Saudi analyst in Jeddah, who asked not to be named. In one sense, it's "as dangerous as killing an American GI or or putting a bomb under the General Motors dealership. It creates the same environment, and in Saudi Arabia, it has religious roots."

"If you want to understand the roots of this hate, this killing, this disregard for human rights, you have to go back to the roots of Saudi Arabia, when the idea was that only we are right," says the Saudi analyst. "The Ikhwan [religious warriors that helped the ruling Al-Saud family consolidate the state 250 years ago] were fighting with the notion that 'We are good Muslims who will go to Heaven, and all others will die.'"

Though a few radical sheikhs have praised the Sept 11 attacks, most religious leaders in Saudi Arabia denounced them. Crown Prince Abdullah warned Islamic scholars in the aftermath that it was "their duty to be careful.... I advise you not to get emotional or provoked by anyone."

Three reasons for jihad

Radical views can drive equally unforgiving political ideas – and create holy warriors. Saudi Arabia – and the CIA – encouraged young men to go to Afghanistan to wage jihad, or "holy war," against the Soviets in the 1980s. And it didn't prevent hundreds from joining the ranks of native son Osama bin Laden in the late 1990s.

"Some went to Chechnya, some fought fellow Muslims [in Afghanistan] – and some were sent to Manhattan," says the Jeddah analyst, who has long followed militant Islamic groups.

The fact that more than one-third of the original 300 detainees sent to Cuba's Guantanamo Bay from Afghanistan were Saudi nationals tells something about how they were recruited.

Far from all being hardened jihad veterans, many of the Saudis held by the US are just 18- or 19-year-olds, "poor guys with crescent moons in their eyes," the US official says.

"The Saudis can't let this happen again," the American official adds. "It's a severe wake-up call, a symptom of a problem that is a very combustible mixture."

But solving that problem has vexed Saudi officials as much as it has American investigators. Many Saudis dismiss this case as summarily as Americans who say that Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, hardly represented mainstream views. While the Saudis have been helpful in handling the families of the hijackers – including collecting DNA samples – they still ask: Where did they come from?

"There are three reasons people wanted to join this jihad," says a young-faced, US-educated Saudi who traveled briefly to Afghanistan five times in the late 1980s, but refused to join later because bin Laden's "aims had changed."

"Some people have no other purpose in their life, and are losers; some see Hollywood movies, and think they can be strong if they have a gun," says the Saudi professional. "And others know that if they die, they can be a shahid [martyr], and are looking for that victory."

"The problem is, they don't understand Islam in the right way," the Saudi adds. "It's stupid to fight someone who is stronger – I prefer to go to America and convince people to join Islam, not fight a war we will lose."

Still, some 10,000 to 15,000 Saudis are reported to have taken part in paramilitary training by extremist groups in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the past two decades. "Bin Laden speaks to the heart of all of us," says another young Saudi, educated in the US. "It is very easy to recruit for Afghanistan, because people are hating the Americans."

"It's everywhere in the Arab world – this anti-American feeling," says Saleh Khathlan, a political scientist at King Saud University. "If there is a single factor behind the [Sept. 11] attacks, it is that US policy is perceived to be anti-Muslim. The hijackers were brought up to believe the world is divided into Muslims and nonbelievers. What's missing is a view of the whole world, something broader that is connecting all humans."

That something is given little chance in rural parts of Saudi Arabia, where most of the hijackers came from.

Subject to hard-line Islamic preachers and an education system that sometimes teaches hatred instead of tolerance, they look back to the first militant generations of Islam in the 7th century for guidance, and call their movement Salafism.

"I blame Salafism. It is behind the most violent groups in the Muslim world; it is the one thing that ties all the hijackers," says the Saudi analyst in Jeddah. Despite the hardline view of some clerics, Saudi rulers are far more moderate.

"We have prevented people from volunteering [for jihad]," Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister, says in an interview. "How can you assure that there are no mad people here, who have been deluded? Nobody is immune to that – but everything that we can do to prevent it is being done."

Except put Barbie back on toy shop shelves.

Jihad, through the eyes of a Saudi 'moderate' Islamic activist

For Islamic militants from the bleak Arabian Peninsula to the lush islands of Indonesia, waging holy war is considered the highest form of worship. For two decades, such true believers have been taking up arms to fight in conflicts from Bosnia to Afghanistan.

But how can suicide bombings – especially in Israel, where Jewish civilians and soldiers alike are targeted by Palestinians – be justified?

"We will not only support suicide bombers [in Israel], but will support more and more suicide bombers if we can," declares Mohsen al-Awaji, an Islamic activist here who was imprisoned for several years in the 1990s for his outspoken views. "We must defend ourselves. This is part of our program. It is not just my view, but widespread."

Support for suicide bombings is not limited to Saudi sheikhs who consider themselves to be "moderate activists" like Mr. Al-Awaji. The popular view was clear when the Saudi ambassador to London, Ghazi Algosaibi, published a poem called "The Martyrs" on the front-page of the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper in April. The poem praised a female suicide bomber, Ayat Akhras, who killed two Israelis and wounded 25 in late March, as a "bride of loftiness" who "kissed death in joy and pride, honoring the word of God."

Saudi Arabia's more moderate leaders are proposing a peace plan that calls for formal Arab recognition of the Jewish state, in exchange for Israel's full withdrawal to pre-1967 borders.

Key Arab leaders, for the first time last month, rejected violence "in all its forms." And some voices from Beirut to Cairo have raised questions about whether suicide attacks aren't now beginning to undermine the Palestinian cause.

But others say that suicide bombings are not only legitimate, they are – in some cases – a religious duty for the truly faithful. Mr. Al-Awaji says that while the World Trade Center was a wrong target, questions remain about the strike against the Pentagon. In Israel and the occupied territories, though, even that distinction blurs.

"Jihad in our religion is very important, but we will never support any action against innocent people, regardless of their religion," says Al-Awaji, whose ability to speak so openly is part of a current Saudi strategy of dialogue with the self-described "moderate" Islamic activists. "The most important thing is that we should differentiate between Israel and the US," al-Awaji says. "In Israel, we must consider two points: All Israelis are fighters – during any war, all people can be mobilized. Everyone is registered with the army.

"And even though we are against targeting women and children, if Israel is doing everything to [Palestinian women and children], what can we do?" al-Awaji says. "There," al-Awaji adds, acknowledging the incendiary nature of his words. "Now I am an 'extremist.' "

cheers

front

[hood]

"The problem is, they don't understand Islam in the right way," the Saudi adds. "It's stupid to fight someone who is stronger – I prefer to go to America and convince people to join Islam, not fight a war we will lose."

So in other words, don't fight because you can't win, not because you shouldn't be fighting it in the first place. It's like that statement from Full Metal Jacket - "Inside every gook is an American trying to get out." Everyone is a muslim, they just don't realize it yet.. ugh.

[Seiyuuki]

Who wouldn't want to be a Muslim? With all that promises of a hundred and something virgins and river of milk and honey in the afterlife!!! p-) p-) p-)

[Ichhabe]

Now now! Let's not overdo the figures here. It is only 72... About ten short of where I drive my limit for being convinced to join any Jihad.

[hood]

Not to mention that life's too short to be thinking of the afterlife.. I need gratification right now.. I don't have time to wait until I get the Napoleon Blownapart treatment.

[StarvingStudent47]

Who wouldn't want to be a Muslim? With all that promises of a hundred and something virgins and river of milk and honey in the afterlife!!! p-) p-) p-)

I like my pork and beer, thankyouverymuch ;)

[GazB]

Ahhh, so the fact that most of the hijackers were saudi, and the fact that Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi national, have not swayed you... it is the fact that a conservative Muslim government might not want a toy doll to be sold in their country... a doll designed to be dressed and undressed in a country where women are not allowed to expose their ankles... why would they object?????


Go figure.

[ArmoredDov_D9]

Here is the official morally-correct educational-benefiting Saudi doll:

http://hydepark.co.il/hydepark/upload01/030911_111836-1946_jihadjoe-preview.jpg

[budanski]

Barbies don't explode and kill bystanders, though.

So there is a tradeoff, it seems, between giving your little daughter Barbies, or handing her over to rape by a man who has a wife or two or three already. What's a good Muslim mother to do?

[Tiger]

Nuke Saudi Arabia...

[hood]

Yeah... I had a friend who lived in Saudi Arabia with her mother who had taken an English teaching job, when she(my friend) was 6. Apparently while walking down the street, a Saudi soldier stopped them and asked about the girl's clothes, which were a t-shirt and shorts. The mother gave a confused answer wondering what the problem was. The soldier replied that if he saw her again dressed like that, he would shoot her on the spot. Short story shorter, her mother and her moved to Bahrain within a couple weeks.

[cut]

Nuke Mattel

I hate barbie and what she simbolises. And yes, Baribie is a slut. telling the world's daughters they can only look good being white (with a tan), blue eyes, and blonde (hmm sounding enough like hitler yet??)

it's just like you into a pharmacy in the west and the plasters (band-aids to you) are skin-coloured in the rest of the world it's just a weird choice of colour

[hood]

out of the various barbie dolls on this page, only 2 are white with blond hair... the whole blue eyes and blond hair thing went out with the fact that they have a "jewish" barbie.

http://www.barbie.com/catalog/catalog.asp?type=100001&subtype=100001&theme_id=100001

[cut]

very few barbies that aren't the original blonde/blue eyes appear in countries like Saudi.. stupid comparison but, you can get regular coke but not cherry coke in say.. bolivia

[96B]

We keep up the relationship with Saudi Arabia for their oil exports. As for the barbie/band aid conspiracy theory, that sounds a bit rediculous. Even more so to compare the whole thing to Hitler? Somebody correct me if I am wrong but the last time I checked America is one of the most ethnically diverse nations on earth so I doubt racism plays a part especially with a company trying to sell a product. I dont collect them, but I thought you could get the dolls in any color? Band aids I know come in differant colors and designs but I suppose you are referring to the generic tan colored.

I have no problem with the Saudis wanting to change the toy or get rid of it because its against their culture and we should respect that. They probably despise our society for allowing women so many rights (that they deserve obviously).

And how can a doll be a slut? Because she is cheap and you can undress her all the time?

[hood]

Now with adulterous whore stoning action play set. Some assembly required. Not for children under the age of 1. Throw this into media player:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/windows/0,3783,3635:300,00.wvx

[cut]

We keep up the relationship with Saudi Arabia for their oil exports. As for the barbie/band aid conspiracy theory, that sounds a bit rediculous. Even more so to compare the whole thing to Hitler? Somebody correct me if I am wrong but the last time I checked America is one of the most ethnically diverse nations on earth so I doubt racism plays a part especially with a company trying to sell a product. I dont collect them, but I thought you could get the dolls in any color? Band aids I know come in differant colors and designs but I suppose you are referring to the generic tan colored.

I have no problem with the Saudis wanting to change the toy or get rid of it because its against their culture and we should respect that. They probably despise our society for allowing women so many rights (that they deserve obviously).

And how can a doll be a slut? Because she is cheap and you can undress her all the time?

I just wanted to point a different point of view across but to a closed mind it's always going to sound far fetched. But it certainly isn't a conspiracy theory, that's just a generalisation to demiss it.

[StarvingStudent47]

I just wanted to point a different point of view across but to a closed mind it's always going to sound far fetched. But it certainly isn't a conspiracy theory, that's just a generalisation to demiss it.

So you insist Barbie is Aryan and Nazi, and the Saudi Religious Police insist she's Jewish. Maybe you two should should sort out that conflict before you both try to ban her. Cause it's hard to be an Aryan Nazi Jew.

By the way, does this look like Triumph of the Will to you?

http://www.barbie.com/catalog/images/products/girls/56433_9993_main.jpg

[hood]

I can't wait 'til they see the George W. Bush aviator doll.

[Rantanplan]

A jewish Barbie?
What makes a Doll Jewish?
Does Jewish Woman look different to American, French or Russian Chicks?

That Sucks :cantbeli:

I think the only way to discern a Jewish Woman is when she wears an IDF Uniform!

Blame America for its ridiculous Political Correctness! :lol:

[Seiyuuki]

Is there an Asian barbie?

[StarvingStudent47]

A jewish Barbie?
What makes a Doll Jewish?
Does Jewish Woman look different to American, French or Russian Chicks?

That Sucks :cantbeli:

I think the only way to discern a Jewish Woman is when she wears an IDF Uniform!

In Saudi Arabia, everything distasteful (especially anything dealing with *** or liberated women) is declared "Jewish." It doesn't mean that those Barbie Dolls come with a mini-Menorah or anything.

[hood]

yeah, pretty much one for every country. supposedly the one that saudi arabia was condemning was malibu barbie. seeing as there's a different barbie for almost every single country on the planet, why is it that saudi arabia singled out the most non-jewish barbie doll and labeled it jewish, and seemingly the only version that's available?

http://www.geocities.com/kldolls/barbieindex.html

[front]

The reason why "Barbie™" is considered a Jewish artifact in Saudi Arabia is because the co-founder of Mattel, which produced Barbie, was Ruth Handler who was of the Jewish faith.

Not because of the way the plastic doll in question looks... which is of course decadent to the Saudi Arabian Confidential Committee On Moral Abuses... but that is merely a smokescreen.

"The designer of the blond, pert-nosed, impossibly wasp-waisted doll was Ruth Handler, daughter of Polish Jewish immigrants."

Strange article link below... relevant nonetheless.

http://englishwww.humnet.ucla.edu/individuals/eng188/rouss/barbie.html

cheers

front

[StarvingStudent47]

Maybe Saudi Arabia would be a happier place if they just chilled out, watched some Adam Sandler, read some Spiderman comics, and listened to the Beastie Boys. Come on, just because a Jew created it doesn't mean it's bad!

[hood]

see.. that's where you're wrong. :) in their eyes anyway.