Question to Israeli Ppl

[Herrmannek]

I've watched yesterday part of program on polish TV about jewish wiev on holocaust. In this program some group of jewish ppl (15-20 years old) was asked about who is guilty for holocaust, gues what they said?
-Poles are guilty-they said
Then they were asked why they are thinking so
-Because it happened in Poland, and in the Poland there were only few Germans, so Poles are guilty- they replied

This answer froze me.

My question is what the bul**** you are learning in israelis shools about holocaust?

To your knowledge.

Only Polish participation in holocaust was dying in concentration camps together with Judes, Roms & others groups persecuted by nazis.

[citizen-k]

I've watched yesterday part of program on polish TV about jewish wiev on holocaust. In this program some group of jewish ppl (15-20 years old) was asked about who is guilty for holocaust, gues what they said?
-Poles are guilty-they said
Then they were asked why they are thinking so
-Because it happened in Poland, and in the Poland there were only few Germans, so Poles are guilty- they replied

This answer froze me.

My question is what the bul**** you are learning in israelis shools about holocaust?

To your knowledge.

Only Polish participation in holocaust was dying in concentration camps together with Judes, Roms & others groups persecuted by nazis.

What I learned, I learned from my Polish grandmother and grandfather.

Pols hated the Jews and many of them helped by doing dirty job for the Germans. (Ukrains were even worse)

Of course there were some who helped to hide Jews / Fight the Nazis, but most of them didn't, as far as history tells.

My grandfathers polish wife for example, turned in his entire family to the nazis while he fought as a part of the Polish army.

As for today, I have been to Poland and saw the "White power" signs everywhere... 50 years after, no Jews around, and for some reason Pols find reasons to hate us - go figure.

Another thing, have you been to Ausvich/Maidanek etc? Those camps are near/inside Polish cities and towns - do you realy belive that the Polish people did not know what was going on inside? (seeing trains come in full, get out empty, smoke and burned flash smell all around)

[ArmoredDov_D9]

I've watched yesterday part of program on polish TV about jewish wiev on holocaust. In this program some group of jewish ppl (15-20 years old) was asked about who is guilty for holocaust, gues what they said?
-Poles are guilty-they said
Then they were asked why they are thinking so
-Because it happened in Poland, and in the Poland there were only few Germans, so Poles are guilty- they replied

This answer froze me.

My question is what the bul**** you are learning in israelis shools about holocaust?

To your knowledge.

Only Polish participation in holocaust was dying in concentration camps together with Judes, Roms & others groups persecuted by nazis.

They're answer, is of course, wrong. Or was put wrong, at least.
Those who organized the Holucaust and are the first to bear the guilt are the Germans.
Nevertheless, the Poles bear some responsibility of what happened there since a lot of them cooperated willingly with the Nazis because of their inherent anti-semitism. Even today, students on school visit to Auschwitz complaint that they suffered from anti-semitism from Poles during the visit.
There were Poles who saved Jews and hid them from the Nazis and we all commerate them with deep respect and appriciation. We called them "Rightouses of the World's Nations" (HASSIDEY UMOT OLAM).

[citizen-k]

I've watched yesterday part of program on polish TV about jewish wiev on holocaust. In this program some group of jewish ppl (15-20 years old) was asked about who is guilty for holocaust, gues what they said?
-Poles are guilty-they said
Then they were asked why they are thinking so
-Because it happened in Poland, and in the Poland there were only few Germans, so Poles are guilty- they replied

This answer froze me.

My question is what the bul**** you are learning in israelis shools about holocaust?

To your knowledge.

Only Polish participation in holocaust was dying in concentration camps together with Judes, Roms & others groups persecuted by nazis.

One more thing, did you ever wonder WHY all the death camps were built in Poland and not in Germany? (or france or Italiy or Holland)

[Herrmannek]

What you said makes me sad. And you are wrong, very very wrong.

Answer this questions if you can:

Where most of the european Jews were living for hundreds of years?
Why they have rights in Poland they haven't in other parts of world?
If they were hated or even persecuted in Poland, why they didn't live?
Did Poles started WWII?
Why on gates of Auschwitz camp was inscription in German "Arbeit macht Frei" not in Polish "Praca czyni wolnym"?

Than take few breaths and read few historical books.

Than you can read this:


What I learned, I learned from my Polish grandmother and grandfather.
Me too. My grandma has few jewish friends, her family was involved in saving one jewish family. She tells me horrible stories. Especialy one when scared mother killed her baby while trying to silence their cry when Nazis where looking for hiden Jews.


Pols hated the Jews and many of them helped by doing dirty job for the Germans. (Ukrains were even worse)
Not more they were hating Jews than French or other nations involved in WWII. To your knowledge Jews also where helping nazis in Holocaust in gettos and in camps.





Of course there were some who helped to hide Jews / Fight the Nazis, but most of them didn't, as far as history tells.

This is lie, I would hit you for that lie in the face if you were stand near to me. Biggest resistnace forces of WWII, most Rightouses of the World's Nations orders came for Poles. Polish inteligence was greates source of knowledge of what happenig in Europe.
In Poland was death penality to everyone who help Jews, to save one Jew few families were neded this wasn't easy or safe, so you should be grateful that such amount of Poles helped them. This was conspiracy so amount of people wich can be saved this way was limited.





My grandfathers polish wife for example, turned in his entire family to the nazis while he fought as a part of the Polish army.
This wasn't rule, maybe she has doing her own buisnesses by hands of nazis.



As for today, I have been to Poland and saw the "White power" signs everywhere... 50 years after, no Jews around, and for some reason Pols find reasons to hate us - go figure.
Don't judge Polnad in light of few morones, debils, cretins, idiots they are not representative.
I've seen pics from Israel where on walls were nazis signs and some writings so this isn't only Polish problem.


Another thing, have you been to Ausvich/Maidanek etc? Those camps are near/inside Polish cities and towns - do you realy belive that the Polish people did not know what was going on inside? (seeing trains come in full, get out empty, smoke and burned flash smell all around)
Poles knew what happenig there, Poles wher dying there in the same maner Jews were. But tell me what Poles can do with that: fight in open battle(Take a look at Warsaw Upprising )? rescue 5 milion Jews, Roms and Poles from camps where they would hide them? , they send messengers to USA and Brits and they were saing that this is Bul**** even Jews in USA havn't move their fingers to do something with that. So you blame Poles that they didn't rescue Jews, if they couldn't rescue themselves.


One more thing, did you ever wonder WHY all the death camps were built in Poland and not in Germany? (or france or Italiy or Holland)
Because we were next in line my friend.

Edited: Some cosmetical/stylistical impovments
Edited: "you morone" changed to "my friend"

[perdurabo]

maybe because the biggest population of Jews were in Poland? :bash:

well i've got some history about Jews too part of my family comes from Lwów (Lvov now ukraine) when comunist troops siezed the city lots of Jews maked a list of Polish officers, and others, my grand granpa was on that list the russians came in with some jew that pointed him, next he was shoot in back of his head, after war when comunist took power it was meany trials and interrogation of Polish AK soldiers my grandma nad grand pa was in prisonment for few years and guess who was in UB(comunist safty office) moust of them was Jews, One of AK heroes said that after interrogation in UB only very few ppl could not be anti-semite
So gues why NOW Polish ppl dislike jews?

[citizen-k]

You asked, I answered - no intention on getting into a fight with you guys.

Jews didn't give away Polish because they hate polish but because they were comunist (which has nothing to do with been a Jew) unlike Pols who gave in Jews simply because they hated Jews.

Instead of hitting me, kicking me and hating me try listen/answer (same as I do with you)

As for death camps - only Pols who fought against the Germans (or were suspoected as ones) were killed, the rest lived normaly with the Germans and their death camps near their houses.

Jews were sent from ALL OVER EUROPE AND Africa to Poland's death camps - simply becasue Pols were the one who didn't mind. (After all, they won all the houses the Jews left behind)

My mother came from Lvov, her parents were Jews - but guess what? they escaped the Comunists just like your grand parents (so if they were there probobly they would have been pointed as well and got shot by the same Jew pointed your grand parents)

[citizen-k]

maybe because the biggest population of Jews were in Poland? :bash:

well i've got some history about Jews too part of my family comes from Lwów (Lvov now ukraine) when comunist troops siezed the city lots of Jews maked a list of Polish officers, and others, my grand granpa was on that list the russians came in with some jew that pointed him, next he was shoot in back of his head, after war when comunist took power it was meany trials and interrogation of Polish AK soldiers my grandma nad grand pa was in prisonment for few years and guess who was in UB(comunist safty office) moust of them was Jews, One of AK heroes said that after interrogation in UB only very few ppl could not be anti-semite
So gues why NOW Polish ppl dislike jews?

Another reply to you: (Since we came from the same city)

My grandfather was in the Polish army as well, if he wouldn't escape from Lvov, do you think he wasn't pointed out as a Polish soldier as well?

So now, after I told you he was also a soldier in Polish army and that his family was all killed because of a polish girl - you still hate me?
(btw, he hated the comunists)

[Mortimer]

judaism and jews confuse me...i'm sorry but they do...i have no idea how they work.

Whats the point in blaming people for something that happened over 50years ago? what the **** is that going to achieve?

i know...herrmannek why don't you strap one of your followers with explosives...then go to citizen-k's house and blow it up.

THEN citizen-k you go to herrmannek's place and bulldoze it!(yragh that'll teach him!).

Then herrmannek you retailiate with another bomb...THEN citizen-k YOU go and do a surgical strike on his car!! yeah!

but THEN herrmannek you have to retaliate! bulldoze 50 houses and occupy herrmannek's property!...wait who does the surgical strikes?....oh i'm confused :roll:

..............................................................

[Herrmannek]

Instead of hitting me, kicking me and hating me try listen/answer (same as I do with you)
I don't keep hate to you nor other jew or other ppl. I wonted to punch you only becasue you were teling bul****, wich makes from Poles nazis wich were killing jews for breakfast , this is not true. Invadeed Poland didn't look like French, Belgium or other countrys, you must remember that nazis final solution also included Poles, Polish wilages was burnt whit their citizens, Poles were send to work camps, concetration camps, whithout reason like Jews from street, Poles fight bravely with Nazis, Comunsists, Ukrines, an others. Some Poles were helping Nazis willingly, but Jews also. Major part of Poles didn't defend Jews because their were defending their own lifes and families.



And you must remember that Jews were comunist because comunists said that Poles are nazis so some people have reasons to hate Jews (not all of course, maybe even small amount, but their role in persecuting Poles is noticable). But hating people isn't right nor are generalizations which Jews and Poles makes about each other.

Mortimer I'm not a fighter.After last time I was fighting, I was lying 2 weeks in bed with nasty groin wound so don't tell me what to do.

[steel bonnet]

So yet another European Country is Balmed for ANY Jewish problem.

Good God,Most nations could be Partially blamed for something.

So the Unarmed Poles where expected to charge against the Armed German SS were they?

It`s Human Nature to do Whatever is needed to survive.So you cannot blame the Pole Citizen for trying to survive.
Surley that is SOMETHING the Jewish People COULD & WOULD understand???
After all Not all Jews backed each other up did they.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

[Mortimer]

you obviously didn't make the connection...i'm sure CK will

[perdurabo]

no i don't hate you i can only hate ppl who i know i don't know you! I've just wanted You to see the truth.
you know that only in General Gubernatory (poland under rule of germans) for helpig Jews Germans shoot whole bulding? and of course you know that Polish agent had mission to get into camp get out go to england and say the whole world whot is happening there? Jeah prabobly don't:( prabobly you don't know that when whole europe in middle ages was burning Jews as a witches they found stedy home in Poland? and the laws of Republic of Both Nations (Polish and Litwa(i don't know name in english) Jews had rights to their own judge their community had special rights, jeah even Gettho in past meen a Jew district in city? Jews wasn't put there they wanted to live with themselves. Even great Polish writer Adam Mickiewicz put on cards of his book Pan Tadeusz an old Jew that is making uderground army to fight with russians for
our country! Thats just outraging to say that gas chambers could happen only in Poland because Polish ppl hated Jews, we lived in one country for good and bad there were closed minded Polish ppl but Jews also. Hey guess what my grandma gived hers ID card her Jew friend that she could escape from nazis, for that my grandma was on the german list "shoot out when seen"

[citizen-k]

judaism and jews confuse me...i'm sorry but they do...i have no idea how they work.

Whats the point in blaming people for something that happened over 50years ago? what the f*** is that going to achieve?

i know...herrmannek why don't you strap one of your followers with explosives...then go to citizen-k's house and blow it up.

THEN citizen-k you go to herrmannek's place and bulldoze it!(yragh that'll teach him!).

Then herrmannek you retailiate with another bomb...THEN citizen-k YOU go and do a surgical strike on his car!! yeah!

but THEN herrmannek you have to retaliate! bulldoze 50 houses and occupy herrmannek's property!...wait who does the surgical strikes?....oh i'm confused :roll:

..............................................................

My polish proerty is already occupied, guess by who?

(Not that I care or want it back, not as long as I have my house here in Israel any way - maybe it will make some Europeans wonder wheather Israel should lose its war against terror)

[citizen-k]

no i don't hate you i can only hate ppl who i know i don't know you! I've just wanted You to see the truth.
you know that only in General Gubernatory (poland under rule of germans) for helpig Jews Germans shoot whole bulding? and of course you know that Polish agent had mission to get into camp get out go to england and say the whole world whot is happening there? Jeah prabobly don't:( prabobly you don't know that when whole europe in middle ages was burning Jews as a witches they found stedy home in Poland? and the laws of Republic of Both Nations (Polish and Litwa(i don't know name in english) Jews had rights to their own judge their community had special rights, jeah even Gettho in past meen a Jew district in city? Jews wasn't put there they wanted to live with themselves. Even great Polish writer Adam Mickiewicz put on cards of his book Pan Tadeusz an old Jew that is making uderground army to fight with russians for
our country! Thats just outraging to say that gas chambers could happen only in Poland because Polish ppl hated Jews, we lived in one country for good and bad there were closed minded Polish ppl but Jews also. Hey guess what my grandma gived hers ID card her Jew friend that she could escape from nazis, for that my grandma was on the german list "shoot out when seen"

I said it before and I'll say it again: SOME HELPED AND SOME DIDN'T
Since it was in Poland then British coudln't help or not help, right?
So Pols are 2nd in line for the fault in a Jew point of view (Psycologicly point of view, not because of the facts)

The general feeling about Poland is that it's a huge grave yeard, the closest thing to hell ever seen on this planet - it's hard not to dislike people who live/lived there before. (Again, emotionly, psychologly)

I'm in person, have nothing against Pols and I love and proud of my family history (some of it is polish related)

The question was why does ppl in Israel usually don't like Pol's - thats why.

[ArmoredDov_D9]

1. Where most of the european Jews were living for hundreds of years?
2. Why they have rights in Poland they haven't in other parts of world?
3. If they were hated or even persecuted in Poland, why they didn't live?
4. Did Poles started WWII?
5. Why on gates of Auschwitz camp was inscription in German "Arbeit macht Frei" not in Polish "Praca czyni wolnym"?

1. In Russia, actually. There were also a large Jewish community in Spain but it was deported in 1492 and spread through Europe and North Africa.

2. On which rights you talk about? I know that in the USA and the UK the Jews enjoyed full rights and liberties.

3. A lot left Poland but most of the Jews their were poor and didn't have the means to immigrate. They had no where to escape. Beside, in other countries near by in Europe - things weren't any better than Poland.

4. No. Germany began atrocities against Jews before WW2. After Poland was taken by the Germans, most Poles collaberated with the Nazis.

5. Because Auschwitz was built by the Germn Nazis. The Holocaust wasn't only death-camps but also Ghettoes, shootout on the streets, pogroms, pits of death when thousands of Jews were slaughtered, burning of synagouges and looting of Jewish property. Poles took active parts in the all of the above.


There were good Poles who helped saving Jews. There were Poles who obeyed the Nazis only out of fear. But alot of Poles took part in the extermination of Jews willingly - because of sheer Jews-hatred.

[perdurabo]

heck CK you amuse me :cantbeli: if i say you that on Polish lands died BILIONS of peaple in whole our history we didn't have more that 100years without a war on our teritory! On Polish soil died russians sweedish turkish cossacs mongolians litvians germans austrians french i can say that list on and on with numbers ....
And only Jews are accusing Poles?whole Europe is ONE BIG GRAVEYARD yeah Poles are guilty they were helping their enemy jeah, for Israel wuld be better that they put more monney in sholar than in wars, things in your country will never change if that is thinking of ppl of israel shalom is like ironic! :(

[tony6]

citizen-k:
I guess they put real **** in your heads in those israeli schools.
It's really pathetic...

Like hemannek said-if you said sthg like this in front of me (I'm a Pole) I would hit you in the face for that. And it has nothing to do with you being a Jewish.
It's simply because you're a real idiot.

[Herrmannek]

4. No. Germany began atrocities against Jews before WW2. After Poland was taken by the Germans, most Poles collaberated with the Nazis.
You ******(sorry you are insulting me and my nation). If most of us would colaborate with nazis you would not hear about:

* Warsaw Uprising
* Enigma
* V2

and least but not last whole world would know nothing about holocaust


Edited: abusive language removed with *******

[perdurabo]

my last note in this topic!

. In Russia, actually. There were also a large Jewish community in Spain but it was deported in 1492 and spread through Europe and North Africa.

2. On which rights you talk about? I know that in the USA and the UK the Jews enjoyed full rights and liberties.

3. A lot left Poland but most of the Jews their were poor and didn't have the means to immigrate. They had no where to escape. Beside, in other countries near by in Europe - things weren't any better than Poland.

4. No. Germany began atrocities against Jews before WW2. After Poland was taken by the Germans, most Poles collaberated with the Nazis.

5. Because Auschwitz was built by the Germn Nazis. The Holocaust wasn't only death-camps but also Ghettoes, shootout on the streets, pogroms, pits of death when thousands of Jews were slaughtered, burning of synagouges and looting of Jewish property. Poles took active parts in the all of the above.


There were good Poles who helped saving Jews. There were Poles who obeyed the Nazis only out of fear. But alot of Poles took part in the extermination of Jews willingly - because of sheer Jews-hatred.

1. look for numbers ok?
2. i'm talking about 14-18century when Jews got special rights they was comiing under they own judgment like ormians had their own representation in parlament i'm talking about years when whole europe kicked out Jews better look in history books Poland was only country without burning witches and killing jews! first constitution in europe! second in world! only liberal country in ocean of imperialism and hatred!!
3.your kidding me right? look in history books but not that israelis but european! Jews from germany,austria, czech. escaped to USA, France, GB and POLAND :bash:
4.fu*** kidding me right? Poland was only country under germans occupation that had NO colaborating goverment (vichy, quisling in norway) NO colaborating army! (wlasow ROA, french vichy) so moust of Polish ppl colaborated with germans?? look in better books or su*** me!
5. as i said before war gettho was a jew district normal name! there were no walls no laws to push there jews! germans only barickaded getthos thats all! and that things you saying weren't in Poland but in whole europe!

if another one say moust of Poles colaborated or such thing like that i will laugh him out! strighten your facts !
Can eany German say smth about ocupation of Poland? because i see that Jews got "other"history than rest of the world!

[ArmoredDov_D9]

4. No. Germany began atrocities against Jews before WW2. After Poland was taken by the Germans, most Poles collaberated with the Nazis.
You morone(sorry you are insulting me and my nation). If most of us would colaborate with nazis you would not hear about:

* Warsaw Uprising
* Enigma
* V2

and least but not last whole world would know nothing about holocaust

I don't get your point. Not many Jews survived the Holocaust in Europe, but whole those who escaped in time - were saved.

My grandparents came to Israel from Poland few years before Hitler captured Poland. So, if you don't have anything constructive to say other than foul language you better not say it at all.

[Ichhabe]

...and we wonder why there is no peace on earth?!? :D

[perdurabo]

your mom didnt caught you and you bumped your head when you were young?
hear that moron polish special agent get into auschwitz then get out came across whole ocupied europe to england to say world what is going on in camps! hes name was Jan Nowak Jeziorański serch that name in books! asshole!
Polish cryptologyst decoded enigma before war! V2 polish underground army captured plans of V2 and send them to england! heck even minesweeper is Polish device :bash:

heck serch in books name Vichy and Quisling and ROA and Wlasow (sory french, norways and russians that is your history:( ) and serch for Polish equivalent of this! :bash:

BTW how meany trees in Yad Vashem is for Polish peaple?
14 000 less or more? Say that Jew! ****** ******* my family was fighting for YOU ****head! :bash: if i say my grandma what Jews say she will cry:( i cry too:(

[tony6]

I can't believe that you're saying all this bull**** seriously.
Do you really believe it??? How can it be?
It's really shocking...
I feel sorry for you (citizen-k and his team).

[Herrmannek]

You offense me and my country inputing that we were active participants of holocaust, and says this is constructive. Tell me if there was any law made by Polish goverment or whatwever that was supporting holocaust.
Or maybe Poland and German were alies. Or maybe those Poles wich died under nazis occuaption weren't Poles let's say they where French wich have supported vichy goverment, or Armia Krajowa wasn't fighting for freedom of all citizens of Poland, or maybe colaborants weren't sentenced to death, but were gratificated by other Poles. Why they are caled collaborants, becasue they were traitors, they were disclosing not only Jews but also Poles.

And enigma, V2 rockets, Warsaw Uprising and reveal of holocaust made by Germans are major parts in fighting nazism in WWII made by brave Poles.

Yes we had and still have some "nazis", but those aren't representing will of the nation or my will or will of major part of Poles. Yes we do have "Jedwabne", but you must remember that what we did almost always was inspired by german nazis not by Poles and this wasn't mass actions.

[perdurabo]

I've got a question for ppl from other country's how in your country history is teached? i'm wondering if eany others got this kind of crap like jews? i know that in states in bismarck State Uni. they teach that US troops liberated Poland:)

[ArmoredDov_D9]

This is turning ugly. Poles did resist the Germans, but many of them used the Nazi occupation to commit pogroms in the Jews. When I say "collaberaion" - I ment only in the genocide of Jews there. They fought against the Nazis but alot of them used the war as anexecuse to unleash their hatred in atrocities against Jews. Before the war, the government of Poland passed some anti-Jewish resolutions such as numerous-clauses of Jews in university.
The antisemitism wasn't special for Poland. All eastern Europe countries had that plague. The Ukrainians, for example, were a lot worse in that matter and also Romania had a long dark antisemite history.

Lvov Pogrom in Ukraine
http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/about_holocaust/chronology/1939-1941/1941/chronology_1941_18.html

Poland, as a nation, is not held colectivley guilty for the Holocaust or for the Nazis crimes. But the Poles do bear guilt for the atrocities they have commited against Jews.

http://www.ciesin.ci.uw.edu.pl/poland/orbis/jews.htm

BTW - In Yad Vashem there are 5733 trees for Polish HASSIDEY UMOT OLAM.

[Herrmannek]

Ukrainians weren't Poles they were national minority, like german minorites and other minorities. Their crimes shouldn't be counted for our account.

[ArmoredDov_D9]

What Ukraine did - Ukraines bear the blame.
What Nazis did - the Nazis bear the blame.
What Poles did - Poles bear the blame.

Poles aren't guilty in the death-camps but some of them is guilty in pogroms against Jews.

[perdurabo]

i've looked on that and you know i din't find naything about killing jews by Poles! that class restricton was for acomodate jews in polish ppl some smartass thogut that jews in their getthos aren't becoming polish:) so they wanted jews become a normal polish ppl:)
i know 1 example of Polish peaple killing jews about 50jews in Jedwabne by simple farmers pushed by nazis.
Of course few Poles did helped nazis but there was a bullet in the head for that! AK was eliminating black sheeps from stadle!
Anti semite in whole esterneurope?!? yes germany is in estern europe;-) france is too on the east;-) you know why you are teached that all eastern europe was antisemite? look on the political mape of post war europe! hell i was teached that russian army in 17september get in Poland to hepl us! yeah for you eastern block comunist were bad for us you western was bad:) don't you think that's now the time we should strighten our books?

how meany are trees in Yad Vashem all? is that truth that 1/3 of all is for polish ppl?
PEACE
i can shake hands to germans and russians do you can shake hands with palestinians?

[cut]

a couple of theories:


(response to "i dont jews and judaism...")
-firstly the reason why judaism gets a bad name in my opinion is that they were unlucky enough not to have there own nation, and in my opinion still don't. The only land they do lay claim to is the most fought over land in the world. Which ideally can only ever be shared, i say that because although judaism was there first it was then taken over by arabs who built over many historical sites (ie solomans temple). This has happened in India too (think Ayodya). Why is it the christians in israel/palestian ter. can manage not to get involved, and still have a place of worship?

- all these things citizen-k is saying about the hatred of poles towards jews, just makes me wonder if he realises that the hatred poles had for jews was nothing like the hatred between jews and muslims for the passed 15 centuries.

-I think the reason why poland has such a bad repution among israeli jews is because many of them, it seems, experienced the full brunt of the nazi holocaust while there

[Spine]

In 1190 all the jews in York England were chased to the top of a hill, where they committed mass suicide, better not let the English forget that one.

[StarvingStudent47]

Just to add another element to this. I am not Israeli but I am Jewish. My mother's family came from what was called "The Pale of Russia" in the 19th century. Some of them came from what is now Belarus, some came from what is now Poland.

My family fled to the United States because of the horrific persecution. The term "pogrom" was not invented in 20th century Germany; it was invented in 19th century Eastern Europe.

I am sure not all Poles are anti-Semitic. I am sure there were many "Oscar Schindler" types. But my family would not have fled in 1892 if there had been no violent anti-Semitism before the Nazis came.

[ArmoredDov_D9]

I am talking about those conutries at about 1850-1945.


Question: Did the people of occupied Europe know about Nazi plans for the Jews? What was their attitude? Did they cooperate with the Nazis against the Jews?The attitude of the local population vis-a-vis the persecution and destruction of the Jews varied from zealous collaboration with the Nazis to active assistance to Jews. Thus, it is difficult to make generalizations. The situation also varied from country to country. In Eastern Europe and especially in Poland, Russia, and the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania), there was much more knowledge of the "Final Solution" because it was implemented in those areas. Elsewhere, the local population had less information on the details of the "Final Solution."

In every country they occupied, with the exception of Denmark and Bulgaria, the Nazis found many locals who were willing to cooperate fully in the murder of the Jews. This was particularly true in Eastern Europe, where there was a long standing tradition of virulent antisemitism, and where various national groups, which had been under Soviet domination (Latvians, Lithuanians, and Ukrainians), fostered hopes that the Germans would restore their independence. In several countries in Europe, there were local fascist movements which allied themselves with the Nazis and participated in anti-Jewish actions; for example, the Iron Guard in Romania and the Arrow Guard in Slovakia. On the other hand, in every country in Europe, there were courageous individuals who risked their lives to save Jews. In several countries, there were groups which aided Jews, e.g. Joop Westerweel's group in the Netherlands, Zegota in Poland, and the Assisi underground in Italy.

Source: http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/General/FaqEng.html

* * *

I think we shall stop here. I don't hate Poles or something and I don't think they are guilty in the death-camps and the mass-murder commited by the SS and the Nazis.

BTW - there are about 19,000 HASSIDEY trees, 5733 out of them are Polish. And those 5733 and many other annonymous Poles who helped to save Jews from the Nazis are worthy and should be comemerated and saluted for their noble deeds.

[Ichhabe]

herrmannek; it was you that opened up this can of worms. If you didn't like its contest it is your own fault.

Do not go asking people questions about what their opinion is, and then "cavalry charge" when they give you an honest reply.

And perdurabo. Lighten up on the intake of sugar. Calling people names like you do, only put yourself in a bad position.

[StarvingStudent47]

i've looked on that and you know i din't find naything about killing jews by Poles! that class restricton was for acomodate jews in polish ppl some smartass thogut that jews in their getthos aren't becoming polish:) so they wanted jews become a normal polish ppl:)

That's revisionist history. Why were Jews in ghettos to begin with? It was because the surrounding communities forced them into ghettos; it was not because they didn't want to mix in.

If Jews "wanted" to live in ghettos, you might find some ghettos in the modern United States. But you don't. I am an American; I am an Oregonian. I love being part of the greater whole, and I am glad the the greater community accepts me. This has not always been the case throughout history.

[Herrmannek]

I didn't knew I'm opening pandora box. :cantbeli:

But I've asked this question only to became sure that what i've heard in TV is only isollated case, but it wasn't, I just can't understand how one victim of holocaust can with smile on face say that other victim is guilty for all that ****.

http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/

But from other topics: "Palestina vs Israel", "UN vs Israel" and "Poles as Nazis", I see that something is wrong in way some nations use history for their own buisnesses. It just hurts...

[Kriz]

Yeah Europeans hated jews ever since they were hold responsible for killing Jezus Christ, so what you gonna blame all europeans who live today for that ??
Grow up dudes I can't be held responsible for what others have done in the past !
And by holdung all europeans responsible for the holocaust you are seriously dishonoring those europeans who gave their lives in helping jews and fighting the nazis, think about that before you go on ranting!

[steel bonnet]

SPINE,
As a Brit myself l`m well aware of that.
We have the keep still there to commemorate,either the British Seige or the Jewish Sucide. Not sure which.

Though looking at this thread. Maybe Another Keep Siege ANYONE????

As for History taught in school,in the UK or at least when l was at school. They pretty much gave the Impression Britiain is the best. Britian did a lot on it`s own,Good,very few times they mentioned the Bad times. Though l bet all nations do that anyway. Push themselves & either NOT mention/belittle others.

l was 12 when l found out via doing some Out of school studying on Africa. We invented the CONCENTRATION CAMP for the Baors women & Children. Pretty much starved them & all the other things you`d expect.
Teacher when l brought this up in 2nd year seniors,wouldn`t ackowledge that ever happened. DOn`t ask me why. l`m Proud to be British,though you DO have to ackowledge the Great & Bad things the nation does too.

For the best Accounts of History,read it from Various other Nations & also your own,then the Truth or as close to it,will become clear.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

[citizen-k]

heck CK you amuse me :cantbeli: if i say you that on Polish lands died BILIONS of peaple in whole our history we didn't have more that 100years without a war on our teritory! On Polish soil died russians sweedish turkish cossacs mongolians litvians germans austrians french i can say that list on and on with numbers ....
And only Jews are accusing Poles?whole Europe is ONE BIG GRAVEYARD yeah Poles are guilty they were helping their enemy jeah, for Israel wuld be better that they put more monney in sholar than in wars, things in your country will never change if that is thinking of ppl of israel shalom is like ironic! :(

Hit me, scream, do what ever you want, it looks like all you want is to get mad at me no metter what I say.

The question was why does many Israelis blame Pols - not why Citizen-k blames the Pols (Maybe because he does not)

One of you asked me why does Poland have a bad reputation in Israel and I answered - not because I agree with it.

How many nations lost 6 milions in gas chambers on Polish land?
Not that it metters - for Jews the worst happened for them on Polish land - FACT!

[perdurabo]

Ichhabe and all of you sorry for calling names but when you hear that your country is guilty and cooperate with Nazis it makes me angry wery angry NO ONE i know didnt helped nazis! almoust all of them fought in AK or PL Armys all over europe! i firstly cried! secondly angered sorry.

what quotedd ArmoredDov_D9 it's partly true but there is nothing about PL ppl helping to kill

there was much more knowledge of the "Final Solution" because it was implemented in those areas. not true in Poland! Poland was mentioned in "final solution" we were called wersals bastard! it's an acapite of Molotov/ribbentrop pact that says wersals bastard should be viped out" in final solution ubermensch class is for "Jew Poles Romes"!! so how we could beeing on the nazis side when we also been targeted to "vipe out"?
meany Jew flee to Poland in 20' and 30' why to Poland? may be because Poles are antisemites?;)
concentration camps are british invention in Burs(? in south africa that one) War (sorry Brits)

StarvingStudent47
the term pogrom in polish means meany deaths not meany jew deaths but any!
in 1892 Poland didn't existed! from 1793 to 1918 Poland were occupied by Prusians Austrians and Russians meany of poles emigrated in that time! we call it great emigration! in 19cent "poland" it was so hard to live that every one tried to leave to USA or France! maybe your family was part of underground and had to flee?

D9 brought a link to sites where it's black on withe that Jews in Poland had special rights! Kazimierz Wielki (Casimir the Great) give them and all of Kings after didn't changed that! Also that data says that when whole europe was kicking out jew Poland gave them safe place!
thanks D9!:)
btw what was a punish for helping Jew in France and in Poland? In Poland whole building was shot! all of them!

polish history book: "in face of agression meany Jew and Belarusins recognited Poland as their country." ther's whole acapite about helping Jews and also about punishment "in Ciepielów nazis burned 33peaple, in Grabówka kiled whole 26member of Sawicki family..."
...in 2world war 6 028 000 Poles died in that number civilians 5 708 000 (moust in mass morder, concentration camps, and other) .... prewar Poland counted about 27 000 000 of peaple (with other nations)

D9 it's 1/3-1/4 trees of all !! eany nation has more trees?
THINK MEN AND TRY TOO SEARCH THE TRUTH!!! PEACE!!!

[perdurabo]

How many nations lost 6 milions in gas chambers on Polish land?
Not that it metters - for Jews the worst happened for them on Polish land - FACT in gas chambers about 3milions Poles lost their lives! Now if enyone wants to talk about that topic a can talk in e-mails keylan@interia.pl i will be glad to meet some peeaple from israel and talk about OUR history to strighten facts myths maybe nex jew children won't be teeched to hate Poles:(maybe smth good brings that discusion!

[citizen-k]

Ichhabe and all of you sorry for calling names but when you hear that your country is guilty and cooperate with Nazis it makes me angry wery angry NO ONE i know didnt helped nazis! almoust all of them fought in AK or PL Armys all over europe! i firstly cried! secondly angered sorry.

what quotedd ArmoredDov_D9 it's partly true but there is nothing about PL ppl helping to kill

there was much more knowledge of the "Final Solution" because it was implemented in those areas. not true in Poland! Poland was mentioned in "final solution" we were called wersals bastard! it's an acapite of Molotov/ribbentrop pact that says wersals bastard should be viped out" in final solution ubermensch class is for "Jew Poles Romes"!! so how we could beeing on the nazis side when we also been targeted to "vipe out"?
meany Jew flee to Poland in 20' and 30' why to Poland? may be because Poles are antisemites?;)
concentration camps are british invention in Burs(? in south africa that one) War (sorry Brits)

StarvingStudent47
the term pogrom in polish means meany deaths not meany jew deaths but any!
in 1892 Poland didn't existed! from 1793 to 1918 Poland were occupied by Prusians Austrians and Russians meany of poles emigrated in that time! we call it great emigration! in 19cent "poland" it was so hard to live that every one tried to leave to USA or France! maybe your family was part of underground and had to flee?

D9 brought a link to sites where it's black on withe that Jews in Poland had special rights! Kazimierz Wielki (Casimir the Great) give them and all of Kings after didn't changed that! Also that data says that when whole europe was kicking out jew Poland gave them safe place!
thanks D9!:)
btw what was a punish for helping Jew in France and in Poland? In Poland whole building was shot! all of them!

polish history book: "in face of agression meany Jew and Belarusins recognited Poland as their country." ther's whole acapite about helping Jews and also about punishment "in Ciepielów nazis burned 33peaple, in Grabówka kiled whole 26member of Sawicki family..."
...in 2world war 6 028 000 Poles died in that number civilians 5 708 000 (moust in mass morder, concentration camps, and other) .... prewar Poland counted about 27 000 000 of peaple (with other nations)

D9 it's 1/3-1/4 trees of all !! eany nation has more trees?
THINK MEN AND TRY TOO SEARCH THE TRUTH!!! PEACE!!!

Hey,
I never said that your country is guilty for cooperate with Nazis!
I know that the Pols fought the Nazis (since my grandfather was in the Poilsh army and his brother fought and killed with the polish underground)

All I said was that here in Israel there are stories about Polish ppl who did cooporate with the Nazis (like in every country and like some Jews who did the same)
the reason Pols have a "special" place is because it all happen on Polish land - thats all!

[citizen-k]

How many nations lost 6 milions in gas chambers on Polish land?
Not that it metters - for Jews the worst happened for them on Polish land - FACT in gas chambers about 3milions Poles lost their lives! Now if enyone wants to talk about that topic a can talk in e-mails keylan@interia.pl i will be glad to meet some peeaple from israel and talk about OUR history to strighten facts myths maybe nex jew children won't be teeched to hate Poles:(maybe smth good brings that discusion!

Only if you promise your kids won't hate Jews! :)

I will wite you after I come back from the Gym and after I'll call my mother (who was born in lvov) to ask her about her feelings for Pols - ok?

[Herrmannek]

Happy End :cantbeli:

[Rantanplan]

Making Poles responsible for the Holocaust is risicolous!!!!

Poles are guilty, because We Germans built our Death Camps in Poland?!?!?!!?!?!?

First of oll, We built the first death Camps in Germany in the early 30's!!!
And do you know why we build death Camps in Poland during the War?
Because it was a Lawlees Area Asshole!!!
Our Grandfather were murdering, raping and marauding in Poland!
The Polish Role in the third Reich was the Role of Slaves!
In no other occupied Territory the People were as much opressed as in Poland

The Poles had the biggest Resistance in Europe!
They had one of the biggest Armies in the Allience!
And, they were betrayed by its Allies after the War!

And now you Suckers tell me that they are responsiple for the Holocaust?

[cut]

don't worry every nation commits crimes or lies in their history books

[perdurabo]

D9 my children will be teched respect to human life! as i was teached!:)
Rantanplan i cried from happines:) FINALLY!!!
We all shuld reamember our history and shuld strighten the myths. but we also shuldn't hate because of what did or did not our ancestors! Past was past now is now!

[ibstolidude]

I thought only america did that.... :roll:

[cut]

I thought only america did that.... :roll:

:roll:

[txajas]

Almost as many non-jewish Poles were killed in the concentration camps than actual jews. Yet some of you have the gall to accuse the Poles of aiding in the killing?

It seemt that only the 5 million jews who died matter, since the 5 million of Polish people who were also exterminated have been forgoten. And now you have the balls to accuse them of being collaborators in the holocaust? Jeez....

[citizen-k]

For those of you who find it very hard to understand:

No one said the Pols are the ones who killed Jews.
No one accused them for what happen.

A simple question was asked - why does Israelis today think that most of the Pols had a major part in what have happened.

My reply, as an Israeli, Jew whom his parents came from Poland and which his grandfather was a soldier in the Polish army during that time was that Israelis today tend to think that Pols had a major part simply because it happened in Poland - simple psychological efect - nothing against Pols themselfs.

It's sad to admit that the posotive part of Jews/Pols together throughout history is not told in schools and it's probobly not helping to fix the wrong impression.

It was nice, as always, to see many people around the world who didn't even read the posts which started this thread and probobly never met a Jew in real life express such deep feelings twards me.

[He219]

And now the twist Rantanplan:

The NAZIS are responsible for the events of the Haulocaust. I do not believe in such a thing as 'collective guilt' as you would also have to believe in such a thing as 'collective pride'.

The Thruths:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/images/title.gif

Of all the countries in Europe, Germany is one of the richest in Jewish history and tradition. While the country is probably most famous, or infamous, in Jewish history for being the epicenter of the Nazis' "Final Solution," even the Holocaust was unable to bring to an end the 1600 years of continuous habitation and cultural flourishing in Germany. Ashkenaz Jewry has been shaped for a millennia and a half in the tumultuous, ever-changing German political, social and economic landscape.

Evidence of Jews in the area now known as Germany dates back to the early 4th century; in the 1930s, a Jewish graveyard from that era was found in the city of Cologne. When the first Jews migrated to the "barbarian lands," Christianity had not yet arrived in Western Europe, and the Roman Empire was still the continent's dominant power. Little is known about the early German Jews, but by the 8th century, Jews were flourishing among the German tribes along the banks of the Rhine. The Jews, for the most part, lived in harmony with their newly Christian neighbors. Jews could hold public office, own land, and work in whatever industries they chose; they spoke the same languages and often had the same names as the Germans. Many Germans even converted to Judaism.

The Church's efforts to prejudice the Christian rulers and people against the Jews largely failed in this era– people were too concerned about the political fluctuations, and simply surviving in the harsh frontier conditions, to heed the call to discriminate.

An additional factor that endeared the Jews to the rest of society was their economic role. While the Jews also worked as farmers and artisans, like the rest of society, they came to acquire a special reputation as merchants. Rulers and populace alike, desperate for the goods that only the Jews could provide, were unable and unwilling to obey the dictums of the church; the very fact that so many decrees were issued is evidence of the apathy of Christendom in responding to them. The emerging Jewish merchant class created a vast international network that traversed the Ashkenazi world. Jews would meet at regional fairs to learn about the fates of other communities, to network, and, of course, to trade. The economic and social connections that the Jews formed throughout the continent made them much more valuable than non-Jewish merchants, whose influence seldom reached beyond their immediate surroundings

The "Golden Age" that resulted for European Jews was interrupted occasionally by anti-Semitism, but, for the most part, Jews lived happily. In the tenth century, European Jewry's most important intellectual movement began to thrive when Rabbenu Gershom ben Judah (960-1028) founded a yeshiva in Mainz, Germany. Gershom's school attracted Jews from all over Europe, including the famous Rashi; Gershom became so renowned for his genius and prominence that he posthumously acquired the moniker "light of the exile." Study of the Talmud increased, and the German yeshivas in Mainz and Worms came to overshadow those in Persia, the previous center of Jewish intellectualism.

In the seventeenth century, when absolutist (and later, enlightened absolutist) states became common. The rulers of these kingdoms viewed the interests of the state as supreme, and began to realize that the Jews were a valuable commodity that was wasted when expelled. The rulers of Prussia, Hamburg, Bradenburg and Pomerania, to name just a few, therefore welcomed Jews into their territories; however, the invitation came with numerous strings attached. The life of the Jews was highly regulated to ensure that the state extracted as much value as possible from them; laws were issued addressing employment, family life, residency and communal affairs. The expulsions that the Jews had become accustomed to became increasingly rare as this era progressed.
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/vjw/germany.html


Yes, Jews have a rich tradition in Germany over the centuries well before the Nazis. Yiddish is spoken by the Jewish people (called the Ashkenazim) who moved from nortern Italy and northern France to Germany in the 9th century and later further moved to eastern Europe in the 13th century to avoid the Christian persecution in Western Europe. Yiddish is based on Middle German, having borrowed some of its vocabulary from Hebrew and Aramaic, and later from the Slavic languages. It is written in the Hebrew alphabet.

Anti-emetic feelings boiled over after WWI with the signing of the Versaille Treaty (http://www.rpfuller.com/gcse/history/2.html) by Friedrich Ebert. Walther Rathenau negotiated the Treaty of Rapallo with the Soviets and championed the requirements of the Versaille Treaty. The Nazi Party claimed he was part of a Jewish-Communist conspiracy. Walther Rathenau was assassinated by two right-wing army officers on 24th June, 1922.

In 1939 Germany was infested with antisemitic feelings, and oppression was prevalent everywhere. On May 13th, 1937, Jews boarded a luxury liner called St. Louis in Hamburg, Germany to travel to Havana, Cuba. Most of these passengers had sold all of their belongings to buy passage and visas that would legally entitle them to disembark in Cuba. They were soon to find, as did so many others, that "a passport stamped 'J' was a passport to nowhere."

http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/st-louis.gif

Tens of thousands flooded the foreign consulates throughout Germany for visas. The problem was that few countries were willing to accept them. Immigration quotas were widespread. Even Palestine was not an option. The British government, which controlled Palestine under the Mandate, had just issued a White Paper, shutting off any possibility that Jews could seek refuge in what was to become the Jewish homeland in less than a decade. In fact, when a Canadian official was asked how many Jews fleeing from Nazi Europe could be admitted to Canada, he responded: “None is too many.” This eventually became the title of a book, describing Canada’s draconian refugee policies. Even as St. Louis was entering Florida’s territories, the Coast Guard fired a warning shot in its direction. The captain knew that there was no choice but to turn back toward Germany.

The Joint Distribution Committee and other agencies did manage to persuade four countries to admit them. They were Belgium, Holland, France, and England. Within a year, however, the Nazis occupied the first three of these countries and most of the passengers eventually perished in concentration camps. Only those in England were saved. Thus, this incident has received the moniker, “The Voyage of the Damned.”


Unfortunately, our own government was no more hospitable than the rest. To most American Jews, President Franklin D. Roosevelt was a hero. Yet, behind the scenes, he succumbed to the anti-Semitic and nativist pressures of the State Department and placed severe restrictions on the refugee quotas.

The S.S. St. Louis incident also underscores the constant need for a strong and secure Israel. Had there been an Israel during the years of the Holocaust, not only would the passengers of the S.S. St. Louis, but thousands, if not millions, of the victims of Treblinka, Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and other death camps could have found a place to begin their lives anew. Regardless of our views of some of Israel’s policies, we must acknowledge that it is the only country in the world that will admit an unlimited number of Jews living under duress at all times.
http://www.beth-elsa.org/be_s1112.htm

Remember that Albert Einstein was born of Jewish parents in Ulm, Germany, in 1879. He was educated at Munich, Aarau and Zurich. Disapproving of German militarism he took Swiss nationality in 1901. He was one of a great number of German educated Jewish Intellectuals.

Just to clear some things up....

p-)

[citizen-k]

He said about his theory: "If it will turn out to be true the Germans will claim I'm German but it will turn out to be false they will claim I'm a Jew"

(He also said that if the theory fails it's not his fault but God's in creating the universe the wrong way)

[He219]

http://www.alphamusic.de/thumb/998/5283998.jpg

That's funny, citizen-k.

:P

[Herrmannek]

Blame War is over(or maybe never started) so Shalom my friends :)

Citizen-k you are right Poles and Jews should learn more about their history ( maybe I should say "our" history). So there wouldn't be such leding to nowhere discussions :)

[perdurabo]

CK i'm waitting for your letter :) (sorry for mistake you and D9)
What are you thinking guys about creating a web site to fight with misunderstundings and myths about history? for all nations?

[Kitsune]

Just to add some correction (@Rantanplan and He 219's quote):

There were no Deathcamps in Germany from the early 30ties on. All Deathcamps were located in Poland and existed from 1942 on.

Terminology: There are the terms "Concentration Camp" and "Death Camp". The first numbered in the hundreds and many were located in Germany and existing since the Nazis came to Power. They were indeed inspired by internment camps used by the British during the Boer War. Essentially they were prisons and labor camps.
Although many people died in those camps, they were not the same as the Death Camps: Auschwitz (which had an attached Concentraion Camp as well), Treblinka (a pure Death Camp), Sobibor and Maidanek (I think that's it). The sense of a Deathcamp was just to kill people: In Auschwitz the trains rolled in, the people got their hair cut, then they were sent to the gaschambers, murdered, then cremated. Then the next train rolled in.

The most horrible footage of corpses pushed by around by an bulldozer was taken in Bergen-Belsen, which was "technically" not a Death Camp. During the last year of the war many concentration camps were closed and the inhabitants were often send to other such camps. So the number of inmates of the remaining camps swelled. Then the food supply was cut (allegedly beacause of shortage...but there would have been enough to feed the KZ inhabitants). As a result tens of thousands of people died from starvation in Bergen-Belsen alone. As the English freed the camp it seemed like hell on earth.
There are no pictures from Auschwitz were two and a half million human beings were murdered...the camp was carefully destroyed. The Auschwitz one can visit today is mostly a reconstruction.

The reason WHY the Deathcamps were located in Poland was twofold: First (aehem sorry...) logistics. Jews lived mainly in Russia, Poland, Germany. All in all Poland is the location were most Jews had not to be transported far while still being at a safe distance to the front. (Macabre...I know...)
Second: The Nazi Leadership kept this quite secret. The existence of Death Camps, the plan to totally exterminate the European Jews, all of this was not known to the public. (In the thirties the Nazis had begun to kill mentally impaired people in Germany...secretly. But it came out and the result was a public outcry. The Nazis meekly ended the killings.) In fact it was quite clear that the German populace would not approve of it...and since Germany was the Nazi powerbase they did not want to take risks. Poland on the other hand was tiedly controlled, the SS had free reign here. (Believe it or not...the Nazis were never as brutal to the German populace as, for example, the Soviet were to theirs. This is one reason for the German support of the NS regime...one could live under them, it wasn't even that bad. Except of course you were a Jew, Gypsy, Gay, Communist, radical Democrat or an artist painting in the cubist style.) In Poland a degree of brutal oppression was applied that was not possible in Germany. Wether the Polish knew the truth? Possibly...but I would not be so sure. Do you know what happens in the prison closest to your home? And it was certainly no smart move for polish people to ask questions at the gates of Auschwitz...

Fact is: even most Jews did not knew about it. They thought they would be resettled (the lie told by the Nazis in Germany what would happen to the Jews who were taken) or made to work. And there were to things that helped to keep it secret: Firstly, it was wartime. A time were people have many problems and tend to care for themselves. And a time of lies, propaganda, exaggerations. The first victim in war is truth a saying goes. And secondly: The incredibility of it all! "Come on: Death Camps? Were people are murdered one train after the other? Their hair is used to fill pillows? The gold tooth are broken out and processed? What a horror story! LOL! Thats the worst piece of enemy propaganda I have ever heard!" From todays point of view it is all easy: You just take a history book and read about it. But during WWII? That is a different matter.

:(

[citizen-k]

CK i'm waitting for your letter :) (sorry for mistake you and D9)
What are you thinking guys about creating a web site to fight with misunderstundings and myths about history? for all nations?

Sent.

Waiting for your reply :backhand:

[StarvingStudent47]

He said about his theory: "If it will turn out to be true the Germans will claim I'm German but it will turn out to be false they will claim I'm a Jew"

(He also said that if the theory fails it's not his fault but God's in creating the universe the wrong way)

The full quote is:

"If my theory of relativity is proven successful, Germany will claim me as a German and France will declare that I am a citizen of the world. Should my theory prove untrue, France will say I am a German and Germany will declare that I am a Jew." --Albert Einstein

[James]

Although many people died in those camps, they were not the same as the Death Camps: Auschwitz (which had an attached Concentraion Camp as well), Treblinka (a pure Death Camp), Sobibor and Maidanek (I think that's it).

Also, Chelmno and Belzec.

[Kitsune]

@James: Yeah right!


About Einstein...

Well, as it turned out: he was German. ;)

[tony6]

Well-I'm glad that it all turned out to be quite civilised discussion:)
Happy end?

[StarvingStudent47]

About Einstein...

Well, as it turned out: he was German. ;)

Except in France, where he's a "citizen of the world." ;) That quote always cracked me up.