something intresting I just read..

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Since I started reading this forum, I've realised that americans (on this site at least) tend to believe Europe is slightly anti-semitic and that france had a large muslim population/influence.

bear in mind France and the UK have the same size population

France religions: christian-92%; jewish-1%; muslim-1%; other6%
UK religions: christian-61%; muslim-3%; other 36%

out of intrest

US religions: christian-84%; jewish-2%; other-14%

bear in mind that this book is 7 years old but then in the past 7 years the UK has been getting a large amount of refugees from ex-yugoslavia and more recently from the american war zones (stan and iraq)

[budanski]

Try reading something more current then. Google can be your friend.

The Islamization of France (http://www.techcentralstation.be/082803M.html)

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isnt that the thing I took the piss out of you for posting?

[StarvingStudent47]

Those numbers are not accurate. The following are taken from The 2002 CIA World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/).

FRANCE:
Roman Catholic 83%-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 5%-10%, unaffiliated 4% (600,000 Jews and 3-6 million Muslims).

UNITED KINGDOM:
Anglican and Roman Catholic 40 million, Muslim 1.5 million, Presbyterian 800,000, Methodist 760,000, Sikh 500,000, Hindu 500,000, Jewish 350,000

UNITED STATES:
Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2% (6 million), other 4%, none 10% (1989)

And how does citing the numbers you do prove that there isn't anti-Semitism in Europe? I don't understand. There are 600,000 Jews in France and 6,000,000 in the United States. That tells you NOTHING about how the Jews in each country are treated.

[cut]

Those numbers are not accurate. The following are taken from The 2002 CIA World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/).

FRANCE:
Roman Catholic 83%-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 5%-10%, unaffiliated 4% (600,000 Jews and 3-6 million Muslims).

UNITED KINGDOM:
Anglican and Roman Catholic 40 million, Muslim 1.5 million, Presbyterian 800,000, Methodist 760,000, Sikh 500,000, Hindu 500,000, Jewish 350,000

UNITED STATES:
Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2% (6 million), other 4%, none 10% (1989)


if that last one is from 1989 when are the others from?




And how does citing the numbers you do prove that there isn't anti-Semitism in Europe? I don't understand. There are 600,000 Jews in France and 6,000,000 in the United States. That tells you NOTHING about how the Jews in each country are treated.

I was thinking more in terms muslims, I don't know if you heard but there's this penchant for hatred between jews and muslims because of the incidents in the middle east, it's the exception rether than the rule but you'd be a fool to deny it's existense

[StarvingStudent47]

I was thinking more in terms muslims, I don't know if you heard but there's this penchant for hatred between jews and muslims because of the incidents in the middle east, it's the exception rether than the rule but you'd be a fool to deny it's existense

Uh...Christian Europeans are quite capable of anti-Semitism too, if my memory of the past 50 years (heck, past 2000) serves me correctly. Saying that a country isn't anti-Jewish because it's only 5% Muslim doesn't really prove anything.

[SOG]

I was thinking more in terms muslims, I don't know if you heard but there's this penchant for hatred between jews and muslims because of the incidents in the middle east, it's the exception rether than the rule but you'd be a fool to deny it's existense

Uh...Christian Europeans are quite capable of anti-Semitism too, if my memory of the past 50 years (heck, past 2000) serves me correctly. Saying that a country isn't anti-Jewish because it's only 5% Muslim doesn't really prove anything.


yeah, hell theres "devout christians" today that preach the word of god and white society. then again just because someone says there something hardly means it is. so many people talk the talk in religion then go nuts and all there friends say on the news he was a christian an all that BS. it would be the equivalent of saying your in the army and yet you only hit the rifle range.

i think people think europe is more prevalent in racism because of its deeper history and the whole hitler nazi thing etc and also way more anglo based cultures compared to one in the US. i know racism isnt just white people hating non whites, but when you mention racism the 1st thing that comes to mind are pointy hoods and torches or shaved heads and queer stomping boots. you dnt think about iraqis beating people from iran because they hate them and vice versa.

and yes france is not full of muslims in the sense that the US is not full of mexicans. maybe not as a whole but with enough of a cultural presensce to change society. ive had several friends visit france and britain and they said france has changed a bit and so has thier population. but hey look at it this way, if france seems like thier being nice to muslims because so many have moved thier etc, the same thing would happen if mexico had terrorists, then the US would feel pressured to say something on mexico's behalf since the
american mexican vote controls alot of states and a few powerfull ones at that.

[FuzziWuzzi]

Well here's something...
A lot of people seem to be confused about what a semite is,
a semite refers to and arab or a jew, racially they are semites.
Arab=Jew=100% semitic, therefore for a muslim to be anti-semitic it poses a some impossible challenges- this aint' rocket science people.

Interestingly enough though, it means every single person in the middle east is anti-semitic, especially the IDF - so there you go ! p-)

[StarvingStudent47]

Well here's something...
A lot of people seem to be confused about what a semite is,
a semite refers to and arab or a jew, racially they are semites.
Arab=Jew=100% semitic, therefore for a muslim to be anti-semitic it poses a some impossible challenges- this aint' rocket science people.

Interestingly enough though, it means every single person in the middle east is anti-semitic, especially the IDF - so there you go ! p-)

Now you're playing semantics to avoid the basic issue. "Anti-Semitic" has been used as a synonym for "anti-Jewish" because for much of European history, the only Semites in Europe were Jews. When people say "anti-Semitic," 99 times out of 100 they just mean "anti-Jewish." We all know what someone is getting at when they say that. Sure, Arabs can't be "anti-Semitic"--but they sure as heck CAN be anti-Jewish. And playing around with words doesn't change that.

As long as we're playing with words: bigots who happen to be Gentiles can be anti-Semitic (hate both Arabs and Jews as inferior races), specifically anti-Jewish but not anti-Arab (you see this with some left-wing extremism groups), or specifically anti-Arab but not anti-Jewish (some varieties of right-wing extremism).

Any way you slice it, people are capable of hate, and quoting the demographic statistics of a country proves nothing about how much hate is infused into the local culture.

[Kitsune]

Antisemitism isn't a pure European thing. Before WWII nearly every Amercan university had quotas how many jewish students could enlist. The US company Bell prided itself until WWII to be "jew free". It was only after the pictures of the Holocaust shocked the world that Antisemitism became that ugly word it is today: Before that it was socially accepted in Europe and in the United States as well to openly voice ones disliking for Jews.

Many did.

[Haiw]

FuzziWuzzi is right, anti-semitic simply means 'anti-anyone-from-the-middle-east'...

[Sabre]

StarvingStudent47:

"Now you're playing semantics to avoid the basic issue. "Anti-Semitic" has been used as a synonym for "anti-Jewish" because for much of European history, the only Semites in Europe were Jews. When people say "anti-Semitic," 99 times out of 100 they just mean "anti-Jewish." We all know what someone is getting at when they say that. Sure, Arabs can't be "anti-Semitic"--but they sure as heck CAN be anti-Jewish. And playing around with words doesn't change that."


I think that proves a point. There is a term to draw attention to 'anti-jewish' sentiment, but not one to highlight 'anti-arab' feelings. Just shows where the priorities have been for some time.

The only 'semites' in europe were jews? Ever heard of the Moors? Hmmm? No? Founders of mediterrainian culture/science/architicture?

I don't think anyone of any importance is antisemitic in Europe. Only skinhead fascists. Most of them are truly 'anti-semitic' because they target muslims as well. Most racism in Europe is directed at people from the arab middle east/indian subcontinent.

If there is any leaning either way in terms of politics, it probably leans towards the anti-Israeli feeling (different from anti-jewish). Not surprising in britain as the first real terrorists of the modern world were the founders of modern Israel (stern gang, King David Hotel, etc) and the appauling Israeli history of human rights abuses (lebbanon, gaza etc).