Anti Patriot Act, Anti Oppressive Government, Anti Gun?

[joe mama]

Ever noticed how many people who rant about how eeeeeeevil the Patriot Act is and how eeeeeeevil and oppressive the US government is tend to be the same ones that rant about how eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil guns are? "We have to repeal the Patriot Act because it allows the government to trample on our rights! We have to get rid of that Nazi Bush and his evil buddies like Rumsfeld and Ashcroft because they want to tap our phones and read our email and trample our rights! And, oh, let's get rid of guns too, because we can trust the government to not trample our rights..."

Ok, now I'll wait for the comments about how civilians who are armed will just be crushed by an oppressive government and it doesn't matter if we have guns.
Fire away, I'm wearing my flame retardant thong (and I'm goddamned stunning it, you bastids! lol)
joe mama
PS How'd Kerry vote on the Patriot Act? One hint: he voted for it! But now it's eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil...

[mr.x]

While it wouldn't be accurate for me to say I have noticed the exact opposite, I have noticed that many of the Patriot Act critics are pro 2nd Amendment and pro gun in general.

I have a couple of problems with the Patriot Act but overall I think it is an acceptable measure. Especially regarding the provisions that allow various agencies to communicate efectively.

I feel that the portions that are regarded as unconstitutional will come under judicial review by the Supreme Court and be judged and stricken as necessary. With any sweeping change in law, due diligence is necessary to maintain a fair balance between freedom and liberty and those in the future who may abuse the P.A. after the current threat has abated somewhat. That is the real potential danger I see with the P.A. Not the actions of this or the next administration but down the road perhaps in 15-20 years.

[Mark Sman]

Pro 2nd amendment here.

But anti some elements of the Patriot Act.

For instance, the LEO ability to execute a search without informing the object of the search. Thankfully they still have to get a warrant, which is as it should be.

But I don't believe the idea of secret searches by the police is a good idea. As a matter of fact, anything that puts the word secret and police near each other in a sentence is cause for pause. Most of the rest of the PA is OK by me.

[mr.x]

I'm with ya Mark Sman.
Have you actually read through the document...it's long and I've basically skimmed a bit but haven't sat down and plowed my way through entirely.

[Mark Sman]

Nope, haven't read the whole thing.

But most of the complaints so far are nothing that worries me. Except for the secret search bit.

[Phil642]

Big brother is reading what you write p-)

[Mark Sman]

If he is, he has typed 15,000 Qs after falling asleep face first on the keyboard.

[Root]

Far-right, Pro-gun, anti-Patriot Act, Anti-Bush, Anti-Kerry person here. Go figure...

I see the patriot act as a huge violation of our rights. I don't care if it gives the LEO an upperhand. Just another step to making the federal government bigger than it already is.

[California Joe]

As far as I can tell the entire first post is backasswards. The people I know that are staunch gun owners are very reticent about supporting the Patriot Act as it stands right now. It's very easy to apply the "terrorist" label to anyone that owns a few too many guns under the current legislation. Gun owners also seem to be pretty Libertarian in their thinking from what I've seen and the idea of more Government agencies with unlimited jurisdiction to watch us is anathema to their way of thinking.

[Nizark]

Pro 2nd amendment here.

But anti some elements of the Patriot Act.

For instance, the LEO ability to execute a search without informing the object of the search. Thankfully they still have to get a warrant, which is as it should be.

But I don't believe the idea of secret searches by the police is a good idea. As a matter of fact, anything that puts the word secret and police near each other in a sentence is cause for pause. Most of the rest of the PA is OK by me.

Ditto. And having read that whole damn thing here's a lil tidbit you can share. In the treasury dept section, out of almost 200+ pages, you know how many times the word "terrorism" or terrorist" is mentioned? 11 times! 11 Times out of almost 200 pages of tightly crammed in text.

And for those people who say, "don't do anything wrong, then they will have no reason to search or look at you.," thats fine thinking, but wouldn't you feel safer if you knew the gov couldn't look at your medical recordsor other private records? It not that we are afraid that something we do is illegal, its that the government can learn anything and everything about us for no reason besides that they feel like it. It feels like probable cause is out the window

[Dmitri47]

i've always been a pro-gun liberal. im anti-anything that takes away any rights, they were written down for a reason. having an armed population is teh only way to achieve that