CIA: Bin Laden Voice Probably Authentic

[Seraphim]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030912/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_bin_laden_tape_7


By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The CIA (news - web sites) said Friday the purported voice of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) on the newly aired al-Qaida videotape probably is an authentic recording of the terrorist leader, but it is impossible to determine when the tape was made.




Agency officials cautioned their analysis was not certain given the poor quality of the recording. They are more certain that another section of the audio voiceovers that accompany the tape contains the voice of Ayman al-Zawahri, bin Laden's chief surviving deputy.


Bin Laden's message does not refer to recent events, except to list five of the Sept. 11 hijackers. Al-Zawahri, meanwhile, speaks of the U.S. invasion of Iraq (news - web sites), suggesting he was recorded since the war started in March.


The CIA also believes the two sections of the audio overlay were recorded separately, which is curious given the U.S. intelligence community's belief they are probably hiding together in the mountainous region along the border between Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Pakistan.


It is also difficult to draw conclusions from the underlying video, which shows bin Laden and al-Zawahri in Afghan garb hiking along a rocky mountainside. Both look healthy, contrary to persistent rumors that say al-Zawahri was wounded and bin Laden was sick, hurt or both.


Some officials suggested the video could be years old, noting bin Laden looked a little less gray than in some other recent appearances. Al-Jazeera, when it aired the videotape Wednesday, said it was recorded in the spring but offered no proof.


U.S. intelligence analysts believe the new tape was primarily intended as an al-Qaida propaganda and recruiting tool, timed to make a media splash alongside the second anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.


"The general feeling in the government is that what they're doing is trying to pretend they're functioning well, leave the impression that people should give them money, ... that they're a viable organization, and that they should get recruits, and just generally give encouragement to their people," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said this week.


Officials have noted that some tape releases have been preludes to attacks. On Thursday, the State Department distributed a new warning noting that intelligence pointed to possible attacks in Europe or Asia.


Former CIA counterterrorism chief Vince Cannistraro said the new message could mean al-Zawahri could be taking on a greater role in al-Qaida.


"Zawahri talks all the contemporary stuff," he said. It raises the question, Cannistraro said, "Who's calling the shots now?"


Bin Laden has not appeared in a video that could be dated definitively since December 2001. Last November, an audiotape of him was aired on al-Jazeera in which he referred to an attack in the previous month. That message is regarded as the last definite evidence bin Laden was alive.


On Friday, al-Jazeera aired another apparent al-Qaida video, this one of Sept. 11 hijacker Saeed Alghamdi. A voice, purportedly of Osama bin Laden, praises Alghamdi, who authorities consider one of the foot soldier hijackers who did not play a leadership role in the Sept. 11 plot.


Alghamdi, a Saudi, was 21 when he helped hijack United Airlines Flight 93. He was not believed to be a pilot. The hijackers apparently crashed the plane into a Pennsylvania field after some passengers fought back against them.


The purported bin Laden voice calls Alghamdi a lion who "knew no fear as long as he was serving God."


Most of the tape consists of Alghamdi recording his last testimony. Al-Jazeera said the recording was made on Dec. 23, 2000, nearly nine months before the attacks.


The editor on duty Friday in Al-Jazeera's newsroom in Doha, Qatar, said the channel received the tape recently, and it came separately to the bin Laden-al-Zawahri tape.





Intelligence officials said they were reviewing the tape, but it appeared to be little more than propaganda. They said it appeared to have no intelligence value.

[NcDeuce]

Probably is bin Laden's voice...

But I still don't trust the CIA. They are not willing to deal with people they don't like, even if they have extremely valuable information. Look at Afghanistan. Thanks to Rumsfield, 1st SFOD-Delta and Special Forces teams can recruit their own intel gathering sources.

Oh yeah, and how about that partner of John Spann, who was seen in the CNN Presents episode of the uprising. He ran for his life, leaving Spann to the al-Qaeda teorrists and Taliban soldiers. The Special Ops troops who came to the rescue checked out his pistol and he only fired a couple of shots and had no idea where his partner was. I guess they don't teach CIA agents to never leave a fallen comrade.

[Ratamacue]

I resent those comments. My uncle was in CIA SOG in Vietnam, and is one of the most honorable men I know. Just because you're trained a certain way doesn't mean you won't choke or you can be a coward.

[James]

Oh yeah, and how about that partner of John Spann, who was seen in the CNN Presents episode of the uprising. He ran for his life, leaving Spann to the al-Qaeda teorrists and Taliban soldiers. The Special Ops troops who came to the rescue checked out his pistol and he only fired a couple of shots and had no idea where his partner was. I guess they don't teach CIA agents to never leave a fallen comrade.

You have a pistol. Your partner was last seen dead or severly wounded. You are surrounded by dozens, if not hundreds, of armed hostiles... What would you do?

I agree with Tane... I too have met a few Agency personell, and they were squared away. And as for Rumsfeld... :roll:

[96B]

I must agree with Tane and James, it would have been pointless to stay and be killed. None of us (especially Americans) like to see our people left behind and will go through the deepest pits of hell to rescue those fallen even if it means losing more men in the process.

With that said, the CIA is a very differant arena than the military in some senses and it is likely that there have been many men left behind or lost while the others fended for themselves. I am most certainly not trying to imply that I know how they operate first hand by experience but from what I have read and logical reasoning. CIA operatives and the likes are fundamentally individuals. With the military, it is all about selflessness and teamwork, but the CIA's environments which they operate in requires them to train their boys and girls to think alone and independant from others, including operating independant. This is not to say they cannot operate in teams though. The military is by nature, somewhat sacrificial in that one risks or gives his life to save others while preservation of self is probably a priority for the spy types. Forgive me for rambling but I am simply attempting to explain the differances in training and mentality of the military and CIA type of guys and possibly why Spann's partner did run from the gunmen with his own life in mind.

I most certainly do not condone the leaving of anybody behind no matter what their rank or importance, and in this case if Spann's partner did abandon him while alive I do not approve of it, but it was likely necessary for the other man to survive and report the situation to higher command.

With all of that said, did we ever get his body back?

[ShotOver]

Yeah, we'll just see how this turns out.


By the way semperfi2003 is there any way of you changing your signature? Being a muslim myself, i find it highly offensive.

[FuzziWuzzi]

CIA: BINLADENS VOICE PROBABLY AUTHENTIC

:o ~~*Y.A.W.N*~~ :o
(smacking lips and yawning)

Ya, 100 monkeys with 100 random outcome machines couldn't have come up with worse foresight than the CIA.


By the way semperfi2003 is there any way of you changing your signature? Being a muslim myself, i find it highly offensive.

Well...how about Mel Gibson's new movie "Attention Judiacs !" :lol: rofl

[NcDeuce]

;p

[Ratamacue]

Is there a REASON you're trying to villianize the CIA and make them look like cowards?

That's very nice that you know people from the 5th SFG, but Tane and James have met people from the CIA and have served as well, and I think their opinion is more valid on this matter.

[Trident-za]

Well, this was all great but... does anyone have comments on the issue i.e. is Bin Laden alive?

[NcDeuce]

PERSEC

[Ratamacue]

Have you ever met anyone from the CIA though? None of those groups are affiliated with the CIA. My brother is in Navy ROTC and regularly is meeting up with active duty Marines and Navy personnel, but last time I checked, he doesn't claim to know all about the CIA nor judge their personnel.

[James]

Met a CIA op? I know at least a dozen active-duty Special Forces soldiers. I know 2 people that have served in 1st SFOD-D, one who is now going through selection and assessment. I know ten or so 160th SOAR pilots and crew chiefs. I can't even count how many people I am friends with in the Ranger Regiment. I'm in ROTC where we regularly go out with members of the 5th SF Group and 160th SOAR for FTX's. I think my opinion is as valid, if not more.

Well good for you, knowing all of those high speed people. I know a fair amount of high speed people as well... :roll: Is this opinion of yours about the CIA being bad based on personal experience, or something these people had to say? Or Robin Moore's book? I don't mean to bust your chops, but I am curious about why you've gotten this sudden chip on your shoulder about the CIA.

Trident-za,

Re: Bin Laden being alive...

I hope he is. I hope he is captured, but I don't think that is likely to happen. I think it would be good if he was incarcerated in the United States - killing him would, I think, make him a martyr.

[mocking_loudly]

What is gained by someone, particularly an author, publishing such accounts? I think Mike Spann's family would rather have heard that his friends and comrades did everything they could to save him

Christ tane, you seem to be saying that lies are healthy, if we all stick our head in the sand then how will we ever learn from our errors?.

I don't know what happened with the CIA bloke, but the TRUTH should never be suppressed in order to bull**** a nation.

There is to much "they died like a hero!" **** going around and this turns war into some event in which young people grow up with a warped view of the disgusting and brutal nature of warfare.

People need to know that nasty things happen in conflicts - otherwise we will always be to quick to send young men to early graves.

History exists so we may better ourselves.

[James]

What would you rather hear about a family member...

"He/she died doing his/her best..."

"He/she died after being tortured brutally for many hours."

I don't think Tane's comments were directed at altering the truth. Check out other threads he's posted in and then decide if he's poking his head in the sand... :oops: He's been around the block once or twice...

[mocking_loudly]

Id want the truth, sorry I don't need fairy tales.

If some one dropped a bollock and that led to the death of a family member I certainly wouldn't want some one glorifying the event just to make me feel better.

I think this topic has more to do with people getting a hair up their ass about criticism of US personnel then any one giving a toss about the feelings of some ones family.
You just are not happy that some one wrote an article that critisised the actions of a CIA member, so hence this author becomes an evil person seeking the all mighty dollar.

That may be the case, I don't bloody know - but alter the truth of events at your own risk.

It's a slippery slope my friend.

[James]

I have no problem whatsoever with people criticizing the actions of U.S. personnel. God bless the 1st amendment of the U.S. Constitution, something we made after we kicked British ass here in America :P

(Please don't flame me for this - I'm feeling facetious)

I was a bit irritated because someone who appears to be lacking any real world experience made a sweeping statement that accused CIA personnel of being negligent and selfish... the only reference given for the basis of this opinion was CNN... nut yeah, maybe my head is in the sand too. :o

[martinexsquaddie]

I saw the same documentry. Looked to me like the two CIA agents were stuck way out on a limb when the **** hit the fan legging it was probably the best that could be done. You got more than 3 or 4 people coming at you with AKs standing and duking it out with a pistol is glorious suicide fine if your a klingon :| but in the real world .
they were interrorgating prisoners usually prisoners dont get access to assualt rifles when that happened the **** hit the fan UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN IN A SIMILAR SITUATION I would'nt go round calling someone a coward

[mocking_loudly]

Man, I would have legged it too - I think you missed what my point was and if you read what I have typed I consistently pointed out that at the end of the day I don't know what the situation was (if your post was directed at me martin - if not ignore this).

Blah, at this point the football seems like a more appealing option then net bitching, just pretend i'm still here and carry on.

[Haiw]

Met a CIA op? I know at least a dozen active-duty Special Forces soldiers. I know 2 people that have served in 1st SFOD-D, one who is now going through selection and assessment. I know ten or so 160th SOAR pilots and crew chiefs. I can't even count how many people I am friends with in the Ranger Regiment. I'm in ROTC where we regularly go out with members of the 5th SF Group and 160th SOAR for FTX's. I think my opinion is as valid, if not more.

yo armchair warrior, knowing the president doesnt MEAN u'r the president... so quit talking crap...u'r opinion is FAR from as valid as Tane Angle's opinion...

[Haiw]

Met a CIA op? I know at least a dozen active-duty Special Forces soldiers. I know 2 people that have served in 1st SFOD-D, one who is now going through selection and assessment. I know ten or so 160th SOAR pilots and crew chiefs. I can't even count how many people I am friends with in the Ranger Regiment. I'm in ROTC where we regularly go out with members of the 5th SF Group and 160th SOAR for FTX's. I think my opinion is as valid, if not more.

yo armchair warrior, knowing the president doesnt mean u ARE the president... so quit talking crap...u'r opinion is FAR from as valid as Tane Angle's opinion...

[NcDeuce]

The truth is always better. Of course, many people, cannot handle the truth. Why would you want to be told some B.S. story about how your husband was killed while bravely charging at the enemy during a prison uprising. Spann was brave. Spann probably fought until he had no chance. His partner, however, did not. And that is all I am saying. The CIA has great people, no doubt. But the organizations' actions in Afghanistan were not flawless. The biggest problem with the CIA in Afghanistan was that they never dealed with people if they didn't like them. This caused rifts between Northern Alliance groups and forced Delta and SF teams to get the HUMINT. And thanks to Rumsfield, Delta and SF now get funding to hire agents, spies, and such. Basically, the CIA is slowly fading away. Because as of now, there are military Special Ops units that are able to carry out the same missions as CIA, better.

Wives of SOF operators know the potential dangers that await their husbands. When my dad was over with TF Ranger, our family all knew he could be captured, beaten, tortured, sliced into pieces and never seen again. That video of the fallen Delta and 160th SOAR guys being beaten was sick and senseless, yes. But it was not a surprise. The men were briefed when they set down in Somalia that the Somalis would not hesitate to mutilate their foes.

How about those Special Forces guys who were killed by a missile, programmed incorrectly by the pilot? You don't see a

[Haiw]

The truth is always better.

not for the woman who just lost the man she loved... take ur father for example; let's just say he hypothetically died, what wud be better; 'knowing' he took a bullet in the head and passed out immediately or knowing he was captured, got his legs, arms, ears, etc. cut off while he was still alive, only to wait untill he bled to death...

2nd... where do u get all ur 'CIA knowledge'? u'r talking crap like u were there while all u did was read a stupid book that was made just to cell copies...

[ibstolidude]

Spann was brave. Spann probably fought until he had no chance. His partner, however, did not. And that is all I am saying. - "probably" is the smartest thing you written yet, atleast his admits you DON'T know but are assuming...just cause it was in Robim Moores book, doesn't make it gospel...and if others who were there have opinions, then they earned them; you however did not.

I think I mentioned this before with you....as did Beowulf (whose afghan pictures have been submited to this site).

For I guy who just graduated last year, just cause your father is ex SOF doesn't make you an expert on CIA opertaions. I also like the way once you posted definative statements, now that the "populus" has called BS you start to change:

Your CIA bashing began in another thread:

CIA intelligence, like in most cases, is bad. - reaaaallly???? hmm


The CIA has great people, no doubt. But the organizations' actions in Afghanistan were not flawless. -nor was the military's - no-one EVER argues that they were flawless, they just question your finite statements of their worhtless ness.


The biggest problem with the CIA in Afghanistan was that they never dealed with people if they didn't like them.- another misinformed statement...the CIA was limited by statute (NSC) about the manner of agents they can reqruit..this includes agents that are of certain moral backgrounds. - do you know if the CIA and military objectives were the same in Afghanistan? hmmmm!! think about it.


This caused rifts between Northern Alliance groups and forced Delta and SF teams to get the HUMINT. - what does an 18F, a SOTA, CI, (all in SFG''s) focus their time on? Holy **** - intelligence. - not even a listing of all assets that were collecting just some in an SFG.

And thanks to Rumsfield, Delta and SF now get funding to hire agents, spies, and such. - how are operational funds - thanks to Rummy?


Basically, the CIA is slowly fading away. Because as of now, there are military Special Ops units that are able to carry out the same missions as CIA, better. - DIS has existed for many moons - they work well together but the CIA does much few can do - certainly there exists other intel assets (INSCOM and in SOF specific) but their missions differ: "The Central Intelligence Agency's primary mission is to collect, evaluate, and disseminate foreign intelligence to assist the President and senior US Government policymakers in making decisions relating to the national security." - a bold task for the military to pick up operating in EVERY foreign country that holds US interests - and they are fading away? - why is their hiring up? -chief complaint was the lack of officers / qualified personnel, so they are bringing more on board for a down sizing?

Do they need reform? certainly a case can be made, but you didn't make that case. You made bold statements based on the opinions of others, and then pawned them off as your intimate knowledge of their workings. that just simply is not true...I don't believe that people here are questioning your case against the effectiveness of the CIA; more than likely it is your presentation that has raised eyebrows...certainly you can have your opnion of the CIA, but to pass off much of your "statement of facts" as the whole truth and nothing but the truth - especially coming from a high schooler will definately perk up some ears. - I mean reread you statements on the "way it was" in Astan - when in fact you only know what you read (other peoples spin) or what others may have choosen to tell you (other peoples spin).

[NcDeuce]

Grammar and spelling, all I have to say.

I'm not wasting my breath on you anymore.

[Ratamacue]

I'll post my reply from the other thread here as well, as we should probably move the topic back to this thread:

----------------------------

Actually, I can drive.

We all know how many people in the SOCOM community you know, and about how very special you are because of it. But that doesn't change the fact that you have never met anyone in the CIA. You can talk all you want about your SOF friends, congratulations.

But an honorable person does not attack a unit, agency, or organization they do not have personal experience with. Maybe I don't have personal experience with the CIA itself, but I do know someone who was in it for quite sometime, even after he wasn't officially working for the government before.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. Rather, I have a problem with assholes like you that put down an elite unit that has greater training, has been around longer, and has vastly more experience than yourself. The fact that you are in ROTC and know SOF members does not make you an expert on the CIA and its faults. Every single goddamn unit in the United States Military has had f***. Yes, even Special Forces, 160th SOAR, all of them.


You don't even know me. For a 10th grader, who might not even be old enough to drive yet, knocking one's honor is quite a call to make.

For a ROTC student in college who has no actual military experience and doesn't know a CIA officer or have experience with the CIA itself, knocking their honor and integrity is quite a call to make.

[Haiw]

oh and my comments on TF160SOAR;
step off ur frikkin high horse...u 'knowing' a couple guys, or being the son that has worked with some of those guys doesn't give u ANY credibility on SOF knowledge and/or operations etc... even more, it gives u even LESS credibility on the subject of the CIA's competence... and now who are u to even start bashing other people on this forum?! i mean, i admit i'm still a military nobody (still too young), but u act and talk like u'r the frikkin 4 star-general who's had a long carreer where he worked for years with the CIA...well, let me tell u the truth...u are a total NOBODY! u'r still a frikkin CADET, u aint even got a frikkin RANK, leave alone EXPERIENCE! (other cadets over here, please accept my humble excuses ok?)

to make a long story short; quit the crap and stop screwing around outta ur league...



ok peace now :hug:

[Chris1]

ROTC - same as UK uni Officer Training Corp?
if so
aside from your nickname being ... inappropriate ... you are entitled to your opinion the same as Ratamacue, your opinion means LESS to me than Ratamacue's at the minute, he has made his point, you have resorted to personnal attack and not a particularly good one at that (commenting on someones experiance when you yourself, have LITTLE in LIFE experiance and in the matters you are discussing)
Your opinion means FAR less to me than Tane Angle who has presented his opinions on a wide variety of subjects that have been informative, inoffensive, sometimes even insightful and most of all, well presented.
Everything else on this very big mass of wires called the internet, means absolutely **** all.
I couldn't care less if Tane Angle was a commando or a caterer.
On here not a lot of people have asked and he hasn't needed to say 'who he knows that I don't'
Learn from that example.

[Apogee]

u'r still a frikkin CADET, u aint even got a frikkin RANK, leave alone EXPERIENCE! (other cadets over here, please accept my humble excuses ok?)



Appology Accepted :D

[NcDeuce]

Quit putting words in my mouth. Read what I have posted. Look to see if I wrote anything about knocking the CIA's honor. I was merely pointing out their screw ups.

The CIA has existed longer than me? No way.

CIA = Elite unit? Listen to yourself.


BTW Haiw: There are no 4-star Generals in the CIA.

So Haiw, explain how knowing former and current Delta, SF, 160th SOAR, and 75th guys gives me less credibility. And in response to the military nobody...I'm pretty sure about 95% of the people using this website is not in the military. Do you have stripes on your arm to show me? Do you have some bars, an oak leaf, or a star on your shoulder to show me? No.

I stated what happened and my opinion of it. It's not the end of the world you CIA hopefuls, you can have your opinion too.

[Beowulf]

Quit putting words in my mouth. Read what I have posted. Look to see if I wrote anything about knocking the CIA's honor. I was merely pointing out their screw ups.

The CIA has existed longer than me? No way.

CIA = Elite unit? Listen to yourself.


BTW Haiw: There are no 4-star Generals in the CIA.

So Haiw, explain how knowing former and current Delta, SF, 160th SOAR, and 75th guys gives me less credibility. And in response to the military nobody...I'm pretty sure about 95% of the people using this website is not in the military. Do you have stripes on your arm to show me? Do you have some bars, an oak leaf, or a star on your shoulder to show me? No.

I stated what happened and my opinion of it. It's not the end of the world you CIA hopefuls, you can have your opinion too.

You're making an ass of yourself "cadet".....the only response you had to Stoli's post was to call "bad grammar".

I think it is apparent to everyone that you ran your mouth without really knowing what you're talking about, and bashed another service. Which I consider unprofessional.

Remember, the argument from authority is intrinsically the weakest form of argument.
-b

[Seiyuuki]

Well, this was all great but... does anyone have comments on the issue i.e. is Bin Laden alive?

Hiyo...I believe I said this a while back...With the technologies available today, I do not believe it is not difficult to "replicate" anyone voice, image, etc...As far as I'm concern, Osama bin Laden can be made to live forever!!!

"ELVIS LIVE!!!"

[martinexsquaddie]

hey thats an idea get the Cia to realease some home Videos oF bin laden
Cross Dressing enjoying some hot boy love and tucking into a bacon sarnie :lol:

[Haiw]

Quit putting words in my mouth. Read what I have posted. Look to see if I wrote anything about knocking the CIA's honor. I was merely pointing out their screw ups.

We didn't put words in your mouth...u mocked the CIA for being 'unprofessional' etc...


The CIA has existed longer than me? No way.

... :roll: man, the CIA is even older than Tane Angle... (guess u aren't that old and 'vintaged' after all ;) :hug: )


BTW Haiw: There are no 4-star Generals in the CIA.
that wasn't what i said... ever heard of comprehensive reading?


So Haiw, explain how knowing former and current Delta, SF, 160th SOAR, and 75th guys gives me less credibility. And in response to the military nobody...I'm pretty sure about 95% of the people using this website is not in the military. Do you have stripes on your arm to show me? Do you have some bars, an oak leaf, or a star on your shoulder to show me? No.

again...comprehensive reading... i didn't say it gave u less credibility, i said knowing those guys doesnt give u ANY credibility on talking about their fields, and LESS than no credibility on talking about other fields (CIA)...about ur military nobody response; didnt i already tell u i'm still too young too join? however, me still being too young for any military service doesn't mean i have less credibility as u as both our credibilities are at zero. however, it doesn't take military service to point out your obvious mistakes...


I stated what happened and my opinion of it. It's not the end of the world you CIA hopefuls, you can have your opinion too.

we're not CIA hopefuls (how cud i be from here lol), we're just errm....fighters against injustice? ;)

[Deuterium]

I would always question anyone who says they know or have been around a CIA officer.

[mocking_loudly]

It's hard to believe any one on the net about any super secret military claims.

Thats why I only claim to be dead sexy!. rofl

[James]

hey thats an idea get the Cia to realease some home Videos oF bin laden
Cross Dressing enjoying some hot boy love and tucking into a bacon sarnie :lol:

Yeah! :D

Does anyone remember the TV show Max Headroom?

[ibstolidude]

USMA - I don't think anyone has any beef with you, your experiences or goals as a cadet...

you can't help it if you were duped into the "O" core..
;)

[Apogee]

Some days I feel like I was duped too. I met a couple of guys who got to go out to Afganistan as a part of A/3/75. I mean those guys enlisted about the same time I reported for cadet basic training. Kinda makes me wish I was out there on the line putting boot to ass for the USA. Hopefully in the long run I'll be able to make more of a difference as a commissioned officer as opposed to a non-commissioned one. But we'll see what the Army is doing in 2 and a half years after I finish IOBC and Ranger School. Have a good one.