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DPGLAW
10-12-2004, 09:52 PM
This is a pretty interesting article about the French and their Bribe taking. It goes on to explain in much better detail the bribe taking that was brought out along with the lack of WMD in the Duelfer report. I thought that it was pretty interesting and yet again portrays our "ally" in the light that they should be portrayed in.... [Taken form the Natiuonal Review Online]

The French Connection
The Duelfer report accuses Paris of rampant bribery.

A prominent French politician fingered as a recipient of bribes in Iraq's Oil-for-Food scandal insists that he's not guilty of anything — but that other leading French figures might be.

"I have never received any gifts from the Iraqi government," said former French interior minister Charles Pasqua, after the CIA's Duelfer report identified him as receiving eleven million barrels of oil in exchange for promoting policies favorable to Iraq.

Pasqua then switched to speaking about himself in the third person, Bob Dole-style, and said that others may not be so innocent: "Charles Pasqua is not involved, but maybe other former ministers are involved."

Maybe other foreign ministers are involved. Whatever the truth about Pasqua's own involvement in the Oil-for-Food scam, his comments indicate that the revelations about French corruption in the Duelfer report may represent only the tip of a very big iceberg.

Indeed, French political leaders have longstanding ties to Iraq — and chief among them is President Jacques Chirac (whose intricate relationship with Saddam Hussein is described in brief here and in more depth here).

Pasqua himself is by no means in the clear: The Duelfer report clearly identifies him as a partner in Hussein's plot "to induce France to aid in getting sanctions lifted." What's more, Pasqua is already at the center of a French corruption probe for a set of charges that have nothing to do with Iraq. The former interior minister appears to be taking these other allegations quite seriously. Last month, he won election to the French Senate — and his critics say he ran for office simply because the post grants him immunity from prosecution.

Even without Pasqua, the CIA survey appears to have uncovered a vast conspiracy aimed at persuading the French government to oppose U.S. policies on Iraq. "As of June 2000," it says, "Iraq had awarded short-term contracts under the [Oil-for-Food] program to France totaling $1.78 billion, equaling approximately 15 percent of the oil contracts allocated."

The French foreign ministry has tried to dismiss the report's findings: "These accusations against companies and individuals have not been verified either with the persons concerned or the authorities of the countries concerned," said a spokesman last Thursday. The French ambassador to the United Nations, Jean Marc de la Salbiere, was more forthright: "These allegations are unacceptable," he said (according to the New York Sun).

Yet the report describes Iraq's French connection in some detail:

Saddam ordered the MFA [Ministry of Foreign Affairs] and other ministries to improve relations with France, according to recovered documents. The documents revealed that the IIS [Iraqi Intelligence Service] developed a strategy to improve Iraqi-Franco relations that encompassed inviting French delegations to Baghdad; giving economic favors to key French diplomats or individuals that have access to key French leaders; increasing Iraqi embassy staff in Paris; and assessing the possibilities for financially supporting one of the candidates in an upcoming French presidential election.

Moreover, the IIS paper targeted a number of French individuals that the Iraqi's thought had close relations to French President Chirac, including, according to the Iraqi assessment, the official spokesperson of President Chirac's re-election campaign, two reported 'counselors' of President Chirac, and two well-known French businessmen. In May 2002, IIS correspondence addressed to Saddam stated that a MFA (quite possibly an IIS officer under diplomatic cover) met with [a] French parliamentarian to discuss Iraq-Franco relations. The French politician assured the Iraqi that France would use its veto in the UNSC against any American decision to attack Iraq, according to the IIS memo.

To be sure, Hussein-era documents should not necessarily be taken at face value. Yet the Duelfer report goes on to include specific information on Iraq's French connection:

Iraq gave 14 million barrels of oil to French businessman Patrick Maugein, whom it considered "a conduit to French President Chirac." (The Duelfer report does add that this claim about Maugein's link to Chirac, obtained from "a former Iraqi official," is "not confirmed.")

"In 1988, Iraq paid $1 million to the French Socialist party, according to a captured IIS report dated 9 September 1992. Abd-al Razzaq Al Hashimi, former Iraqi ambassador to France, handed the money to French defense minister Pierre Joxe, according to the report. The IIS instructed Hashimi to 'utilize it to remind French Defense Minister, Pierre Joxe, indirectly about Iraq's previous positions toward France, in general, and the French Socialist party, in particular.'" (Joxe has denied this happened.)

Former Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz "says he personally awarded several French individuals substantial oil allotments. According to Aziz, both parties understood that resale of the oil was to be reciprocated through efforts to lift UN sanctions, or through opposition to American initiatives within the Security Council."

Participants in the Oil-for-Food scam also included the French oil companies Total and SOCAP, businessman Michel Grimard, and the Iraqi-French Friendship Society, according to the Duelfer report.

Perhaps one day the French will regret not having joined President Bush's Coalition of the willing — because it meant they weren't on the ground to destroy these papers of mass corruption before Charles Duelfer and his team found them.

I would like to see some opinions of others on this subject, Please, I do not want to have this turnb into an argument or a flame war. If anyone sees fit to start that **** I won't wait for a mod to lock this, I will go ask so let's please be adults people.

EvanL
10-12-2004, 09:53 PM
Arms trading has happened with every country.
If you think the US's hands are any cleaner you need to wake up.

DPGLAW
10-12-2004, 10:02 PM
ok, no I never said that the US has never been involved in arms trade, everybody with half a brain knows by now that we armed the muj. in their fight against the Soviets. thats jsut one example. But numbnuts, I am not talking about arms trading in this particular case. The article I posted was about how those french took bribes from Iraq. They basically SOLD their veto to Iraq for christs sake. If thats not what they did then they only didn't want anyone in Iraq because they know that their years of being two-faced were coming to an end and all the bribes they took and the weapons they gave the terrorists to kill American Soldeirs would come out if we invaded. And guess what, it did.

Again though, apparently you did not read my statement after the article about being adults and not being argumentative but to jsut have a discussion. I say this because your post (Evanlyod) was antagonistic. There is no need foir that ****, act like an adult and post a response if you want but A) make sure that it has something to do with the topic and B) Don't be an ass, we are all adults (Hopefully and in some cases I sincerely doubt it) so we need to act like it and have a civilized discussion/debate.

EvanL
10-12-2004, 10:03 PM
ok, no I never said that the US has never been involved in arms trade, everybody with half a brain knows by now that we armed the muj. in their fight against the Soviets. thats jsut one example. But numbnuts, I am not talking about arms trading in this particular case. The article I posted was about how those french took bribes from Iraq. They basically SOLD their veto to Iraq for christs sake. If thats not what they did then they only didn't want anyone in Iraq because they know that their years of being two-faced were coming to an end and all the bribes they took and the weapons they gave the terrorists to kill American Soldeirs would come out if we invaded. And guess what, it did.

Again though, apparently you did not read my statement after the article about being adults and not being argumentative but to jsut have a discussion. I say this because your post (Evanlyod) was antagonistic. There is no need foir that ****, act like an adult and post a response if you want but A) make sure that it has something to do with the topic and B) Don't be an ass, we are all adults (Hopefully and in some cases I sincerely doubt it) so we need to act like it and have a civilized discussion/debate.
mmmmmmmmmmmm thats good satire

Gatling
10-12-2004, 10:15 PM
It's already been posted multiple times, try at least to come up with sum new!!!!!

DPGLAW
10-12-2004, 10:20 PM
It's already been posted multiple times, try at least to come up with sum new!!!!!

I hadn't seen this article posted at all but if it was I apologize for the repost as is it was a repost it was not intentional. If that is the case I would appreciate it if one of the mods would delete this thread, no need for two of the same thing ;)

Rakki
10-13-2004, 12:29 AM
Ignore him, this article hasn't been posted before.

n.ignomo
10-13-2004, 05:35 AM
nothing to say.

fantassin
10-13-2004, 06:07 AM
Seeing your avatar, or Budanski's, or Blackrain and luckily only a few others and then "France" or "French" in the title of the thread makes it unreliable, biased and a flame bait from the start.

You spend your days digging the same old **** about France that's been debunked 150 times before and then come and say "let's all be adults and discuss about it".

It's the same thing when somebody starts a "No plane hit the Pentagon" or "There were no Jews in the Twin Towers" thread; doomed and insulting from the start.

My contribution: grow up and learn to live with the fact that YOUR government and especially YOUR armed forces trust the French, whether you like it or not.

n4292936
10-13-2004, 06:23 AM
I for one am glad that this article has been posted!!

For a while now I've been firm in the belief that those dirty French had been taking bribes. It's good to have such things confirmed. I've been happy for a while now in the knowledge that America doesn't act in its best interest, and that it has never been subject to bribery, extortion, or coercion the way those dirty French have. America the incorruptable I always say! Thanks for reinforcing my incredibly justified but none to well thought out prejudices.

Yours
N4292936

Phil642
10-13-2004, 06:28 AM
DPGLAW is one of the worst that come out of the best country in the world ... :lol:

Flagg
10-13-2004, 06:31 AM
Did you hear?

The French killed JFK...and they kidnapped both the green and grey aliens from Area 51......dirty b@stards

And the Statue of Liberty is filled with French Foreign Legionnaires in suspened animation awaiting orders to attack...some gift :roll:

jedisponge
10-13-2004, 06:39 AM
i don't understand why everyone keeps snubbing everyone.

so, are all you guys saying that the french government did not take the bribes? even after your precious senate member pointed fingers at others for doing so?

for the record we know our government's hand is not clean. to believe any goverment is 100% "clean" in present and past is like believing the red sox are going to win the world series. we armed the muhajadeen but look what we're doing now. we're fighting them.

and don't give me the bs that the french are helping capture these crooks. we know, it's a good thing. but that's not the point. the point is do you guys honestly believe that after Pasqua came out with what he said that the french government wasn't involved with anything?

PS live with the fact that the us goverment does not trust the french goverment, no matter what you say. the french armed forces are totally different, if you realize that politicians are very different from soldiers as well.

Gatling
10-13-2004, 06:46 AM
edit

Sharp
10-13-2004, 07:08 AM
Ils sont traumatisés ces jeunes de nos jours...

Phil642
10-13-2004, 08:19 AM
Ils sont traumatisés ces jeunes de nos jours...

Sont surtout cons et limités! :cantbeli:

penna
10-13-2004, 08:28 AM
for the record we know our government's hand is not clean. to believe any goverment is 100% "clean" in present and past is like believing the red sox are going to win the world series.

woah woah woah there friend, i draw the line at that statement. the sox are going to win the series, and the yankees can kiss my ass!

von_Moo142
10-13-2004, 08:41 AM
I would like to see some opinions of others on this subject, Please, I do not want to have this turnb into an argument or a flame war. If anyone sees fit to start that **** I won't wait for a mod to lock this, I will go ask so let's please be adults people.

So you say all that stuff above, regarding a tired old subject which you should know better about anyway. And you post some dubious evidence (when was the last time you listened to a single politician speaking out over something you disagreed with?). Then you don't even quailify your post with something deliberately anti-inflammatory (such as stating that you respect the French involvement in Afghanistan), whilst using a patheticly one sided article.

All fair enough I guess, but for this:

Article about the French and their Bribe taking.....

Which happens to be the title.


And you say you want an adult discussion and not a flame war. That's either funny or sad, I just can't work out which.


No one needs to flame you after that, as you effectivly flame yourself. Your post admirably demonstrates your capacity for reasoning and thought.


Edited, because my spelling's worse than usual today... Where's Mobster when you need him?

morlick
10-13-2004, 01:21 PM
Did you hear?

The French killed JFK...and they kidnapped both the green and grey aliens from Area 51......dirty b@stards

And the Statue of Liberty is filled with French Foreign Legionnaires in suspened animation awaiting orders to attack...some gift :roll:

:D You forget to say that french people eat the little children sometimes.

moughoun
10-13-2004, 01:29 PM
Did you hear?

The French killed JFK...and they kidnapped both the green and grey aliens from Area 51......dirty b@stards

And the Statue of Liberty is filled with French Foreign Legionnaires in suspened animation awaiting orders to attack...some gift :roll:

:D You forget to say that french people eat the little children sometimes.
only at Christmas

Bluezoo
10-13-2004, 05:42 PM
Seeing your avatar, or Budanski's, or Blackrain and luckily only a few others and then "France" or "French" in the title of the thread makes it unreliable, biased and a flame bait from the start.

You spend your days digging the same old **** about France that's been debunked 150 times before and then come and say "let's all be adults and discuss about it".

It's the same thing when somebody starts a "No plane hit the Pentagon" or "There were no Jews in the Twin Towers" thread; doomed and insulting from the start.

My contribution: grow up and learn to live with the fact that YOUR government and especially YOUR armed forces trust the French, whether you like it or not.

Let me see how you defend this. I dare you to asnwer these squarely because general denials are considered admissions. If you are sore about it, savor it! The truth hurts!

So the these immaculate French politicians who made great speeches in before the UN are just a bunch of dirty hypocrites after all. I guess we have to learn from the Vietnamese who kicked their sissy ass long ago.

Tai han mam kai toi su dao hang! hahahhahaha :lol:

DPGLAW
10-13-2004, 06:37 PM
DPGLAW is one of the worst that come out of the best country in the world ... :lol:

you sir, are an idiot. It is obvious that you did not botehr to read my post. I re-posted an article and even left out my personal feelings about you French. It is obvious that you are a 12 year old, unintelligent french child. you did not read my post or you would not have made such an asinine comment. Im sorry if that is too big of a word for your little french brain....Either that or it is your mental retardation that is causing your lack of intelligence. If it is because you are retarded, than forgive me as you can not help an underdeveloped brain or sense of reason.....By the way, shouldn't you be getting ready for bed and brushing your tooth by now, I mean 12 year olds go to bed very early ;)

n4292936
10-14-2004, 12:46 AM
I re-posted an article and even left out my personal feelings about you French.
...no you didnt....

... the French and their Bribe taking. .....yet again portrays our "ally" in the light that they should be portrayed in....
That doesnt sound like an ommission of personal feelings to me ;)

morlick
10-14-2004, 02:52 AM
We can make a contest; find a new location title for our friend DPGLAW

Before: BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD- USA
After : THE COUNTRY OF THE POWER RANGERS

Look like good, no?

Sharp
10-14-2004, 11:38 AM
Or the country which will lead the Earth to its loss..

Zarathustra
10-14-2004, 01:43 PM
Yep and the Americans are in Iraq only for the liberation of the Iraqis people ! They don't care of oils hehehe :D


:roll:


haha bandes de bouffons... :lol:

stephane from Paris
10-14-2004, 02:41 PM
A great news!!!!!!!!!
In future hollywood movies french actors will have great oportunities to replace soviets in the bad guys roles!!!!!
Maybe i could send my photos, i'll be glad to face Sylvester Stallone in Rocky 5 (or 6 can't remember) or Rambo against the french fries.


Btw if Sadam gave money in 1988 (so before GW1) it was a bad idea since we were in the coalition in 91!!!!!! (:o)))))
Pasqua???? he's like Al Capone, when there's an affair you can says he's in!!!
It's easy to says everything but you'll need to prove it (if possible not with the so funny proofs Powell shown in UN).
There's an internationnal court, if serious proof exist, give them (including the US names that are in the list).

And i likes what the french embassy in US said: We hope to see an as well mediatised report as this one if that if the facts are not rights!
Considering how most of US medias didn't speak about the truth on the missile affairs i know the reply!

Bluezoo
10-14-2004, 04:16 PM
Yep and the Americans are in Iraq only for the liberation of the Iraqis people ! They don't care of oils hehehe :D


:roll:


haha bandes de bouffons... :lol:

Yeahh, sounds like Total Elfina's investment went down the pipe. And the French public will be paying for the loss while its politicians took bribes. They pretended that they had no other interest but peace, but it was really the bribes, kick backs and the loot they were after. What a bunch of hypocrites! rofl

You can't trust politicians enywhere you go! :petting:

Kilgor
10-14-2004, 08:24 PM
I think you'd find the americans invaded iraq for their own reasons, but what they are annoyed at is europe and particular the french giving out this B.S civilized euro moral highground stuff.

Thor
10-15-2004, 03:30 AM
The United States and France had opposing business interests in Iraq. Today US oil companies (did anyone say Halliburton?) are doing what french and other nations companies did before. It's just as simple as that and I don't think the french are anymore corrupt than the americans when it comes to taking care of oil interests.

The only thing I care about today is the ****ing oil price. It's time to start pumping some oil in Iraq....

Thor
10-15-2004, 03:34 AM
I think you'd find the americans invaded iraq for their own reasons, but what they are annoyed at is europe and particular the french giving out this B.S civilized euro moral highground stuff.

Well, I think France/Germany are feeling the same way.. The Bush administration using B.S. talk about terrorist-connections, WMD and some sudden concern about the freedom of the iraqi people, as an excuse to put their hands on the iraqi oil reserves.

BarkingSquirrel
10-15-2004, 03:56 AM
Yeah, I mean, we all know those terrorist camps in the north that were neutralized at the start of the war (http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/033103_dozens_killed_as_us_special_forc.htm) were really just puppy farms and Magical Happiness™ mills.

Olybrius
10-15-2004, 07:30 AM
Ils sont traumatisés ces jeunes de nos jours...

Sont surtout cons et limités! :cantbeli:

only some kids in a far right board ;)
En fait , c'est plutôt rassurant , il faudra se poser des questions le jour ou ils diront du bien de la France ;)

stephane from Paris
10-15-2004, 12:14 PM
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:56 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I mean, we all know those terrorist camps in the north that were neutralized at the start of the war were really just puppy farms and Magical Happiness™ mills.


And the fact that the only islamist group which had link with AQ was in the norther Irak in the non controlled by Sadam zone (kurd zone)??????????????????
One more proof that Bush didn't act against terrorism in the OIF!

BarkingSquirrel
10-15-2004, 08:43 PM
Oh, so it's okay that they are terrorists, just as long as they don't chat with AQ http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/bash.gif

jedisponge
10-16-2004, 01:14 AM
since im about to sleep i decided to do this: translations
Sharp: "They are traumatized these young ones these days..."
In reply to Sharp:
Phil642: "Are especially stupid and limited!"
Zarathustra: "Yep and the Americans are in Iraq only for the liberation of the Iraqis people ! They don't care of oils hehehe ... haha bands of clowns"
Olyibrius: "Indeed, this is rather reassuring, it will be necessary to ask itself questions the day or they will say good of France"

anyway, i hate the yankees too go mets woooo, 2-0 in the series now.

i'm also ignorant. someone tell me some stuff that france did that made a difference in the last 20 years. something worth mentioning.

Zarathustra
10-16-2004, 01:25 AM
En fait , c'est plutôt rassurant , il faudra se poser des questions le jour ou ils diront du bien de la France ;)

Ouais, remarque, vu comme ça...
Au fait bon retour Stéphane ?

stephane from Paris
10-16-2004, 03:34 AM
Au fait bon retour Stéphane ?

Hello zarathustra!!!!! T'es partis aux USA? Ils donnent de bons cours de krav maga là bas????? ;)
A+
steph

Zarathustra
10-16-2004, 06:36 AM
Au fait bon retour Stéphane ?

Hello zarathustra!!!!! T'es partis aux USA? Ils donnent de bons cours de krav maga là bas????? ;)
A+
steph

Depuis peu en effet !
Mais bon t'inquietes pas, y sont pas tous aussi débiles et relou que certains présents içi...

@+
Zarathustra