create a palestinian state?

[cut]

would that make a difference? Would giving up the golan heights make a difference?

[Herrmannek]

Yes to State, else Don't know

[Ichhabe]

The Golan heights should only be given up when the daughter of mother Theresa is the legally elected President of Syria.

And yes. the Palestinians deserve their own state. But where to put it? To our Israeli friend in here; Backside of Pluto? Is that far enough? :lol:

[budanski]

A Palestinian (Philisitine) State without Yassir?
Already got one....It's called Jordan

Didnt they try this along side the creation of Israel in 1948 under UN resolution 181? The British Mandate for Palestine into two states for Jews and Palestinian Arabs. Lets see, the same problem back then will no doubt reemerge today. Arabs objection to a Jewish state which was and will result in war. It was only when Israel got tired of the arabs using their land as staging ground war did Israel decide to put an end to that. Today, the lot allocated to the Palestinian state is occupied by both Israel and Jordan.

[hendrix33]

Yes.


There is no arguement that a palestinian state will be created. Israeli prime ministers said it out loud. But before IDF can end the occupation, terror must stop.

In order for terror to stop, there must be a new palestinian leadership that will have the courage to take the arms of their fellow palestinians, and dissassmble organizations like Hammas and Islamic Jihad. Without anyone in the PA who is willing to try to fight terror, Israel cannot end it's presence in the occupied teritorries, and a palestinian state cannot be created. It's in the wishes of the Israeli administration that such a state is created, because this means the end of the conflict.

To conclude: The only obstacle in the way of palestinian state is the palestinian leadership. Unfortunately arafat does not only steal the money from his people, including UN food-money, money transferred to the PA from Israel and more to his European private bank accounts, but also blocks the way to end the conflict, create a palestinian state and make true peace.
I have an academic article on the corrution in the PA and I can translte the main ideas if anyone disagrees the points I've made.

[budanski]

And yes. the Palestinians deserve their own state. But where to put it? To our Israeli friend in here; Backside of Pluto? Is that far enough? :lol:

Palestinian state to be created in Antarctica (http://www.inform.umd.edu/studentorg/cownipple/issues/may02/mideast1.shtml) ;)

[ArmoredDov_D9]

Agree with Hendrix33.

[Jooglae]

I agree with the building of a Palestinian state. It's been too long since the Arabs were kicked out of their native lands, and they possibly can't take another 5 decades in refugee camps.

[ArmoredDov_D9]

I agree with the building of a Palestinian state. It's been too long since the Arabs were kicked out of their native lands, and they possibly can't take another 5 decades in refugee camps.

"Kicked out"? it is more like ran away because of their own side propoganda who urged to leave by telling them blood libels on the Jews, and promised them the houses of the Jews after they'll (the Arab armies) will drive the Jews back to the see.

[citizen-k]

would that make a difference? Would giving up the golan heights make a difference?

YES! YES! YES!

Give them a state of their own! where ever they want!

BUT

one shell, one suicide bomber, one killing and I want all of you brave

soldiers to come over here and do what ever it takes to calm them down

(That will be funny, a Norwegian explains a Palestinian why shooting is

wrong...) rofl

[Golani68]

Give them a state yes
but terror must end first and all their groups disarmed

but give them a state would it be the end next they will want israel back

[StarvingStudent47]

Yes.


There is no arguement that a palestinian state will be created. Israeli prime ministers said it out loud. But before IDF can end the occupation, terror must stop.

In order for terror to stop, there must be a new palestinian leadership that will have the courage to take the arms of their fellow palestinians, and dissassmble organizations like Hammas and Islamic Jihad. Without anyone in the PA who is willing to try to fight terror, Israel cannot end it's presence in the occupied teritorries, and a palestinian state cannot be created. It's in the wishes of the Israeli administration that such a state is created, because this means the end of the conflict.

To conclude: The only obstacle in the way of palestinian state is the palestinian leadership. Unfortunately arafat does not only steal the money from his people, including UN food-money, money transferred to the PA from Israel and more to his European private bank accounts, but also blocks the way to end the conflict, create a palestinian state and make true peace.
I have an academic article on the corrution in the PA and I can translte the main ideas if anyone disagrees the points I've made.

What he said.

[StarvingStudent47]

I agree with the building of a Palestinian state. It's been too long since the Arabs were kicked out of their native lands, and they possibly can't take another 5 decades in refugee camps.

Roughly 99% of the land on the Arabian Peninsula IS already under Arab control. Israel has 1/15 the population of the Arab-speaking world (Arabian Peninsula plus NE Africa) but 1/500 the land. The rest of the Arab world has made a DELIBERATE CHOICE to keep Palestinians in refugee camps. It's not like they don't have more than enough land to go around.

[He219]

I agree with the building of a Palestinian state. It's been too long since the Arabs were kicked out of their native lands, and they possibly can't take another 5 decades in refugee camps.

Roughly 99% of the land on the Arabian Peninsula IS already under Arab control. Israel has 1/15 the population of the Arab-speaking world (Arabian Peninsula plus NE Africa) but 1/500 the land. The rest of the Arab world has made a DELIBERATE CHOICE to keep Palestinians in refugee camps. It's not like they don't have more than enough land to go around.

Excelent point, StarvingStudent47. Neighboring Arab states are not assimilating the Palestinian Refugees into thier own society as Israel refuses to do the same.

I wonder, why not make Israel a demographically diverse state with democratic representation of both indigenous Palestinians and Jews? If there is a fear that loss of ethnic domination to a diverse populus of Muslims, Christians and Jews would threaten the existence of Jews themselves - why not incorporate provisions to maintain equal ethnic representation in a nondiscriminatory government for the purpose of promoting ethnic diversity?

I could never imagine that the United States, or the rest of the world in the information age we now find ourselves in, would allow a repeat of the Haulocaust of Jews, purportedly by Palestinians or anyone else, in a manner Adolf Hitler implemented during an age of worldwide antithapy to the plight of Jewish peoples prior to the Haulocaust.

Should we condone ethnic segregation with the establishment of divided states or encourage democratic integration with assimilation of the indigenous Palestinian population into a representative democracy of greater Israel? To me, the latter egalitarian approach would be certain to ensure an actual Peace without the precipitation of racial anymosity certain to occur through the continued disintegration of lands once called Palestine.

Just some thoughts...

;)

[ArmoredDov_D9]

wonder, why not make Israel a demographically diverse state with democratic representation of both indigenous Palestinians and Jews? If there is a fear that loss of ethnic domination to a diverse populus of Muslims, Christians and Jews would threaten the existence of Jews themselves - why not incorporate provisions to maintain equal ethnic representation in a nondiscriminatory government for the purpose of promoting ethnic diversity?

If we accept the refugees as a citizens, will have to give them equals rights. Equal rights includ voting right. And the Palestinian will use the voting right and the fact that they will be the majority to disband Israel and to expell and slaughter its Jews.

You doesn't accept Israel to commit collective suicide willingly?
It is not fair to demand the only Jewish state in the world to disband itself and let its citizens to be slaughters. There are so many Christian states and so many Arab and Muslim states, why are you so keen about the extermination of the only Jewish state in the world?

We reject the "right of return" and we shall never agree to it. We are better off fight for our lives and freedom than loosing them without a battle.

[Bill Smy]

I believe that history will prove that the creation of a Jewish state of Israel was wrong. And we perpetuate that wrong today in various ways: forgetting that Israel was created by terrorism, assasination, murder, supporting Israel at the expense of the Palestinian people; justifying the occupation as "their land", and referring to Palestians as "the problem".

I also believe that the current troubles origninated by Sharon, against all advice and logic, when deliberately violated a Muslim holy site. He deliberatly generated the uprising. He does not want peace, because he knows it would be the death knell of Israel. Peace would bring an end to enormous American aid. With peace, Israel would be hard pressed to justify the denial of basic rights to Arab Israelis, and the population growth of the Arabs (and Palestinians) would eventually overwhelm Israel. No longer could they excuse murder of innocents with a shrug and "collateral damage" comments.

The political landscape of the world is constantly changing. The Persian, Greek, Roman, British, and French empires, once thought to last an eternity, have disappeared. So will the American empire. And with that, support for a Jewish Israel. There will be no Israel in 50 to 100 years.

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

I persoanally would love to see the palestinians and Israelies living side by side in peace and harmony. I am convinced that giving them a state would do absolutely nothing to end the persecution of the Jews. I believe this based on the writing prophets of the old testament and the prophesies of Jesus and the Apostle John in the New testament.

When the Jewish nation was allowed to return to Jerusalem after 40 years of captivity in Babylon, the scripture teaches that they would be driven out of the land again (because of the rejection of the suffering savior by the Jewish leadership). The scripture reveals that the nation would latter be brought back into the land twice. Once in a state of unbelief(1948), and one final time at the end of Daniels 70th week(when the Messiah returns).

There is some incredibly fasinating stuff to dig out of the scripture. If anyone is interested in the references I would love to dig them out for you. I know many people just blow off any thinking along these lines but the stuff is there in writing...

I would be interested in the viewpoint of any Israelies on this topic. What do the Rabbis teach concerning the old testament prophets or do they just teach from the Talmud and Mishna?

Jesus blessings!
chris holloman

[ArmoredDov_D9]

I believe that history will prove that the creation of a Jewish state of Israel was wrong. And we perpetuate that wrong today in various ways: forgetting that Israel was created by terrorism, assasination, murder, supporting Israel at the expense of the Palestinian people; justifying the occupation as "their land", and referring to Palestians as "the problem".

How else do you define million of people keen on your inhilation?


The political landscape of the world is constantly changing. The Persian, Greek, Roman, British, and French empires, once thought to last an eternity, have disappeared. So will the American empire. And with that, support for a Jewish Israel. There will be no Israel in 50 to 100 years.

The Egyptians are gone. So as the Babylonian too. So as the Persian and even the Romans are no longer with us. Greeks? Byzantion? only ruins were left of them. French? They'll not linger for long. Many nations have disappeard throughout history. Even the oldest European nation doesn't exceed the 2000 years barrier. But the Jews are here for more than 3000 years and we ain't going nowhere! Lower your expection, mate, WE ARE HERE TO STAY!

[StarvingStudent47]

The political landscape of the world is constantly changing. The Persian, Greek, Roman, British, and French empires, once thought to last an eternity, have disappeared. So will the American empire. And with that, support for a Jewish Israel. There will be no Israel in 50 to 100 years.

1) Israel survived the 1948 War with no American aid, or any international aid for that matter.

2) Even if the United States went *poof* and disappeared (which won't happen), Israel still has strong military and civilian ties with India and Turkey--particularly India in the past couple years. People have this incorrect idea that the United States is Israel's only ally.

[StarvingStudent47]

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://www.iris.org.il/images/arabwld3.gif

People who talk about Israel leaving Arabs "without a home" should look at an atlas. I wonder--why would cutting that blue state in half one more time cure all the problems in the Middle East? It sure doesn't look like it would make a significant difference. Or is it just an attempt to further erode that blue state, until the entire map is once again yellow? The latter is the publicly declared goal of every major Palestinian terrorist group.

This is why Israelis and supporters of Israel are hesitant to allow the creation of a Palestinian state until two things happen:

1) The Palestinian leadership will agree that it will not claim any further land inside Israel as part of "their homeland." If the West Bank is handed over, they can't just go and say "well, Haifa belongs to us too, and we'll continue terrorism until we get it." This abandonment of future demands is one of the reasons why Arafat abandoned the peace negotiations with Barak and Clinton. Arafat wanted the possibility to claim Haifa or West Jerusalem 10 years down the line.

2) There must be a guarantee that the new state will live in PEACE with Israel. Not just be a staging point for terrorist attacks.

[Haiw]

saying palestinians shud just 'go off to some other arab country' is bs...it wud be the same to say 'argh fack those belgians, theyre still europians, lets give belgium to the monkeys and let all the belgians live somewhere else in europe'...

[Christkiller]

Hendrix I agree with you, and the other Jews on this board. All us Jews should agree always, and not be split, because the Arab beasts we fight against every day are united, and we must destroy them before they kill us. Let us kill Arafat, and replace him with someone who likes Mohammad. Then this Mohammad robot will tell the Palestinians to march into the sea, and then all the Arabs will march into the sea and we will be rid of them. Many of the Americans, or in the case of that asian kid who says he is American, agree with me! This is good, America is a close friend of Israel. The Arabs can have their nation, IN HELL, next to Gandhi, and Kennedy, and some other bad guys who were for Palestine. Pluto is too close to Israel, get it!!! HAHAHAHA, I make a joke, I hoped someone laughed. Good stuff, still laughing as I type. Yes, let's put them in Hell.

[StarvingStudent47]

saying palestinians shud just 'go off to some other arab country' is bs...it wud be the same to say 'argh fack those belgians, theyre still europians, lets give belgium to the monkeys and let all the belgians live somewhere else in europe'...

Funny, until 1967 "Palestinians" were just Jordanian and Egyptian citizens, and they didn't mind it then...

[Haiw]

i mean palestinians as in 'people that lived in, or have their roots in the place that's called israël now'...

[He219]

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://www.iris.org.il/images/arabwld3.gif

People who talk about Israel leaving Arabs "without a home" should look at an atlas. I wonder--why would cutting that blue state in half one more time cure all the problems in the Middle East? It sure doesn't look like it would make a significant difference. Or is it just an attempt to further erode that blue state, until the entire map is once again yellow? The latter is the publicly declared goal of every major Palestinian terrorist group.

Interesting how the 'Arab World' does not include Ethiopia, situated between Somalia and the Sudan. The main religions in Ethiopia are Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Paganism. Perhaps it is also recognized as having a Jewish population referred to as Falash Mura (http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jews-not-for-Judaism/racism_against_ethiopian_jews.htm) or Falashas, whose ethinic Jewish purity has been in contention. Interestingly enough, their efforts to seek a better life away from the hardships of this war and famine raked country has been dependent on an all too familiar term, the "right of return" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2769453.stm)- an Israeli law which allows Jews from anywhere in the world to obtain automatic Israeli citizenship. Yet, this same rational is criticized when Palestinians call for a "right of return" to lands of their own origin.

While Israeli policy encourages the immigration of ethnic Jews to be settled within Israel and the occupied territories, thereby increasing the demographic influx of Jews within Palestine, the ever growing indigenous Palestinian refugees are considered to be a 'threat' to the racial dominance of Jews within Israel.

My opinion is not to continue the fragmentation of the political map in the 'Holy Land' with two separate states, but to integrate indigenous Palestinians with Mizrahi, Ashkenazics, Sephardim, Haskala and Mystic Jews to form a true democracy. With the advent of Theodore Herzl's Zionism in 1896 and the championing of an ethnic Jewish state, Jews became targeted by the Arab world for their imposition within the 'Holy Land' held sacred by the world's major religions. In fact, Geonim Jews flourished under Islam, and 'with their interpretations of the daily Jewish life, made the Babylonian Talmud the unrivalled standard of Jewish norms everywhere'. The critical factor to fears of 'annihilation' by an Arab populus came after the andvent of Zionism and the affront to the sensitivities of indigenous Islamic peoples through ethnic domination.

In fact, one of the longest surviving Jewish communities still lives in Iraq. It was only after Iraq's independence from Great Britain in 1932 that the 2,700-year-old Iraqi Jewish community suffered horrible persecution, particularly (http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iraqijews.html) as the Zionist drive for a state intensified. At one time, Baghdad was one-fifth Jewish; other communities were first established 2,500 years ago. Today, approximately 38 Jews live in Baghdad, and a handful more in the Kurdish-controlled northern parts of Iraq. During British rule, the Balfour Declaration declared Great Britain in favor of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The Balfour Declaration was also the product of British strategic thinking and the lobbying of modern Zionism's second great personality, Chaim Weizmann.

To conclude, Jews have been persecuted along with other ethnic groups throughout the world. To champion the polarization of Jews and Arabs within the 'Holy Land' will only lead to continued distrust, anymosity and violence.

[StarvingStudent47]

My opinion is not to continue the fragmentation of the political map in the 'Holy Land' with two separate states, but to integrate indigenous Palestinians with Mizrahi, Ashkenazics, Sephardim, Haskala and Mystic Jews to form a true democracy. With the advent of Theodore Herzl's Zionism in 1896 and the championing of an ethnic Jewish state, Jews became targeted by the Arab world for their imposition within the 'Holy Land' held sacred by the world's major religions. In fact, Geonim Jews flourished under Islam, and 'with their interpretations of the daily Jewish life, made the Babylonian Talmud the unrivalled standard of Jewish norms everywhere'. The critical factor to fears of 'annihilation' by an Arab populus came after the andvent of Zionism and the affront to the sensitivities of indigenous Islamic peoples through ethnic domination.


If that's your vision, cool, but the majority of both sides disagree with you. So don't hold your breath for it to be implemented. Israelis want a secure state with a Jewish majority. Arabs either want (1) no state of Israel, and an Arab government in "Palestine" ruling over a Jewish minority (the PLO/Hamas approach) or (2) a smaller Israel, with an independent Arab state called Palestine adjacent to it (the Western-supporters-of-Palestinians approach). I have heard NOBODY in the region ask for this sort of "joint-venture" plan you propose. Considering what Iraq/Libya/Egypt have done to their Jewish minorities, and considering how unpleasant Israeli governance of the West Bank has been for everyone involved, I don't blame anyone in the region for rejecting a one-state plan.

The simple fact is, sometimes people prefer separate states. We saw this in Eastern Europe after the fall of the USSR. We've seen this in Ireland. We didn't call national self-determination "segregation" or "ethnic domination" there. I don't see the Middle East as any different.

[He219]

I'm glad that we finally see 'eye to eye', StarvinStudent47 - except for the 'separate' part!


:P

[JiJoMacLE45]

Haiw:

And the Jews should just forget about any religious importance Israel plays in their faith. Give me a break. So because Al-Qaeda attacked on us on September 11th, well give them New England and most of the eastern seaboard then call it even.

Israel has made concession after concession, offered more land than they probably should, land that they have every bit as much right to as the Palestinians if you want to go by the theological history books, land which they rightfully occupied following unprovoked invasions by the Arabs on numerous occassions. And how dare someone talk about religious sanctity when the Arabs attack on Yom Kippur.

Sure the Israelis have killed innocent people in their fight. It happens, that is one of the prices paid when nations choose violence over diplomacy. But what choice are you left with when your citizens are being killed and maimed en masse by ruthless terrorist attacks which routinely claim women and children among their victims. And you wonder why the world stage will not rally around your cause.

I can not seem to get my head around this empty headed liberal thinking that wants to coddle terrorists and meglomaniacs. Yeah, Arafat is not a terrorist, just like Castro has established an incredibly proficient and effective model of what a government should be. Wait . . hold on a sec . . . I have to go fish Juan out of the drink.

To those brave Israeli shooters: Happy Hunting!

[citizen-k]

saying palestinians shud just 'go off to some other arab country' is bs...it wud be the same to say 'argh fack those belgians, theyre still europians, lets give belgium to the monkeys and let all the belgians live somewhere else in europe'...

"Saying Jews should just 'go off to some other country is bs...." (September, 1939)


The Arabs from this area got Joradan as their state, the claim for a Palestinian state is just an excuse to fight Israel, something I'm sure you don't mind.

[Rantanplan]

The Arabs from this area got Joradan as their state, the claim for a Palestinian state is just an excuse to fight Israel, something I'm sure you don't mind.

Its not about Jordan or a Palestinian State. Its about their Homeland.

[JiJoMacLE45]

It also happens to be the homeland of Christianity and Judaism, so if that is your arguement, don't the Jews have as much of a right to be there as well?

I'm a Christian(well a Catholic, close enough). If I blow myself up on a bus in Tel Aviv, will my people get our own country too?

[Rantanplan]

I'm not talking about fu**ing Religion. I'm talking about brave Farmers
wich were dispelled by Foreigners.

[StarvingStudent47]

I'm not talking about fu**ing Religion. I'm talking about brave Farmers
wich were dispelled by Foreigners.

What about the continual Jewish presence there since Biblical times? What about the hundreds of thousands of "brave" Jews living under Arab rule in the first half of the 20th century, who fled to British Mandatory Palestine to escape persecution in Iraq, Egypt, and Libya? If we're returning the Middle East to how it stood in 1900, then we'd better be prepared to give significant chunks of Cairo and Baghdad to Israel.

Oh yeah, and if we're talking about automatically restoring borders to how they've stood in previous history, than Europe had better get ready for an influx of about 300 million Americans and Canadians who are going to have to abandon our homes. Or maybe we're just invoking our "right of return" to Europe. It's one of the two.

My family is owed a farm in western Russia, from which we fled under duress in 1892. Maybe I'll give Vladimir Putin a ring and see if he wants to displace whoever is living there now and give it back to me.

[Rantanplan]

Judaism is a Religion and not a "Race" or whatever
The Palestinians have the same ancestors like the Israelis.

P.S. Jews were a Minority in the Ancient Judea

[StarvingStudent47]

Judaism is a Religion and not a "Race" or whatever
The Palestinians have the same ancestors like the Israelis.

If Judaism is just a religion and not an ethnicity...

1) Why do we have secular languages unassociated with religious practice? (Yiddish and Ladino)
2) Why is there such a thing as "Jewish food?"
3) Why is there such a thing as "Jewish music?"
4) Why do Jews even have our own unique set of genetic diseases, most notably Tay-Sachs? Arabs don't get Tay-Sachs. Ethnic Russians don't get Tay-Sachs. Ethnic Germans don't get Tay-Sachs. ONLY Jews get Tay-Sachs.

Judiasm IS an ethnicity in addition to a religion.

And if you say "the Palestinians have the same ancestors as the Israelis," then you've contradicted your own point about "the land being stolen by foreigners," haven't you?

[Zarathustra]

Yes a palestinian state should be create.

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

The political landscape of the world is constantly changing. The Persian, Greek, Roman, British, and French empires, once thought to last an eternity, have disappeared. So will the American empire. And with that, support for a Jewish Israel. There will be no Israel in 50 to 100 years.

1) Israel survived the 1948 War with no American aid, or any international aid for that matter.

2) Even if the United States went *poof* and disappeared (which won't happen), Israel still has strong military and civilian ties with India and Turkey--particularly India in the past couple years. People have this incorrect idea that the United States is Israel's only ally.

1)Israel didn't get official aid. But it had many people from the US in particular joining them after WW2. These were highly trained and experience soldiers and engineers. Israel did get outside help, but not from a state.

But I agree with you. I don't think that other nations would let Israel be overrun. Even if America did weaken as a power, it would still be strong enough to be a significant ally. Empires and power takes a long time to totally diminish.

And nations like India, and possibly even China may support Israel in order to stop middle eastern Muslim states gaining momentum. Not to mention the UN as a whole, European coalitions and millions of wealthy educated Jews around the world (Just like in the begining).

I think any talk of a West bank withdrawl would have to include some form of international military presence to prevent an invasion that could cut Israel in half. Be it naval, or a large base on the border.

[Rammy]

Yes Palestinians should have an idependent state.

[UoUo]

Yes.

The pasltinains should have pasltinain state.

The qustion is, in which borders.
Offcourse with out an heavy weapons.
And sure as hell without the right of return.

[RavenW]

No.


Until last week I thought that "yes, Palestinians should have a state of their own".

My argument was simple - you can not throw thousands of innocent people from their homes.

I guess I was wrong, and we all learned something this week.
THere are thousands of Jews who are pushed from their land and the world does not lift a finger in protest, so I would say
"No to Palestinian state!
If you can do this with Jews, than you can do this with Arabs!
Throw them out of our Land, Israel will raise from the ashes of Gush Qatif"

And I'd like to see how Israeli Left would react if 26 mosques were destroyed, Muslim cemeteries removed and innocent civilians who did not harbor terrorists in their homes would be pushed out.

[khukuri]

The Arabs from this area got Joradan as their state, the claim for a Palestinian state is just an excuse to fight Israel, something I'm sure you don't mind.

Its not about Jordan or a Palestinian State. Its about their Homeland.

WOW! finally someone who put it striaght! its not about who lived their 3 phousands years ago and religious jibberish. it was their home, they lived and still live there under occupation. thats it.


thx rantanplan

[UoUo]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

[RavenW]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

And I tell you again - as long as you are not a Jew you can live in Eretz Yisrael and vandalize Jewish holy places.

[UoUo]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

And I tell you again - as long as you are not a Jew you can live in Eretz Yisrael and vandalize Jewish holy places.

I am looking by answer from those who against the Settlements. :D

[Rammy]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

Because of the image it shows.

The Palestinians don't need the reminder of occupation by seing Jewish settlements.

Arabs in Israel are simply people who's families date back from decades. On the other hand, jews in the settlements are newly moved people supporting the occupation.

*Ok so I made a mistake.

So the Arabs moved there after, they do so while being ruled by Israeli laws right?

[RavenW]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

Because of the image it shows.

The Palestinians don't need the reminder of occupation by seing Jewish settlements.

Arabs in Israel are simply people who's families date back from decades. On the other hand, jews in the settlements are newly moved people supporting the occupation.

rofl rofl rofl rofl

People!!!!! Don't even respond to this...

I think it's clear who we are dealing with, and the intellectual capacity of this "fellow".

[UoUo]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

Because of the image it shows.

The Palestinians don't need the reminder of occupation by seing Jewish settlements.

Arabs in Israel are simply people who's families date back from decades. On the other hand, jews in the settlements are newly moved people supporting the occupation.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

I can't stop it rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

How ignorant can you be? rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[UoUo]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

Because of the image it shows.

The Palestinians don't need the reminder of occupation by seing Jewish settlements.

Arabs in Israel are simply people who's families date back from decades. On the other hand, jews in the settlements are newly moved people supporting the occupation.

rofl rofl rofl rofl

People!!!!! Don't even respond to this...

I think it's clear who we are dealing with, and the intellectual capacity of this "fellow".

That it.
I agree with you.
rofl rofl

But we won't correct him?

[RavenW]

Rammy, go study first then return and report to us. :D

[Rammy]

It's funny how both of you laugh at my comment, but don't bother to to say anything intelligent.

[RavenW]

Why should I care to educate you where there are tons of material on the subject.
All one needs to do is have an urge to learn.

There are dozens of good books written on the subject.
There are numerous web-sites that deal with the issue.

Not even mentioning that there are so many forums on which you can talk with people who actually live in the region both Jews and Arabs, Muslims and Christians...

My friend from Beirut had a long laugh if he would read your posts.

[UoUo]

It's funny how both of you laugh at my comment, but don't bother to to say anything intelligent.

There is not need.

You are not willing to hear the facts.

So what if i tell you that for exsmaple
"kfar darom" settlemets established in 1948 and that destroyed by Egypt.
And again established in 1970.

35 years ago.
And most of the settlemnts are more than 30 years old.
So please please stop your crap please!

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

That's what i've been thinking. I suppose it must have been part of the bargain that Israel would remove the settlers. But why?

I'm not against the handover of the Gaza strip, but forcefully removing people seems unnecessary. The settlers should have been given the option to stay where they were under a Palestinian regime, or relocate to Israel.

[RavenW]

read this book first... about 1000 pages

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679765638/qid=1124375521/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-8469963-9663107


ah... let me look at my shelf I gonna tell you exactly how big is it

..be right back..

[RavenW]

ok.. it's 1153 pages that deals with only MODERN (!) history of Israel (1800 - to our time)

[RavenW]

read it first, then report to me, and I will give you a book on Palestinian side

[Javehn]

It's funny how both of you laugh at my comment, but don't bother to to say anything intelligent.

There is not need.

You are not willing to hear the facts.

So what if i tell you that for exsmaple
"kfar darom" settlemets established in 1948 and that destroyed by Egypt.
And again established in 1970.

35 years ago.
And most of the settlemnts are more than 30 years old.
So please please stop your crap please!

Kfar Darom was established in 1920's , under mandate of British government . It was conquered in 1948 , Jews expelled from over the Gaza strip where they were the majority up until 47 .

Don't bother , I've asked exactly the same question from Rammy in other thread . The responce I've got was amazing - he managed to read only the last line where I call him a warm or something like that , and in typical responce "this is your way of arguing , by calling people names" .

Just don't bother

[UoUo]

yeah i know.
This guy is a lost case.

[Rammy]

Yup everybody team up agaisnt me..Having fun?

[futurepilot2004]

:roll: Another Israel thread that has decended into a flame war :roll: Is it actually possible that we`ll ever see a thread about Israel without flame wars???

[Rammy]

:roll: Another Israel thread that has decended into a flame war :roll: Is it actually possible that we`ll ever see a thread about Israel without flame wars???

I didn't start it :


I ask again why does arabs can live inside Israel but Israeli cant live inside Gaza strip or West bank.

[UoUo]

Yup everybody team up agaisnt me..Having fun?

it's not about team up against you mate.
You are just wrong.
That sad. you are talking out of ignorance.

[Rammy]

Yup everybody team up agaisnt me..Having fun?

it's not about team up against you mate.
You are just wrong.
That sad. you are talking out of ignorance.

I made one mistake. Keep In mind, I don't have all the available ressources you do. Here in Canada, my history classes aren't about the rise of Zionism, but how fur created this country.

And I still believe that I had a good point when it comes to the image it leaves. When you get invaded, seing a foreign nation set up houses on your land is a bitch.

[UoUo]

Look. i won't countinum to argue with you.

1. You whouldn't change your mind
2. you are not willing to hear to facts.
3. i myself won't change my mind
4. we are pisses everyone here.

[Rammy]

Look. i won't countinum to argue with you.

1. You whouldn't change your mind
2. you are not willing to hear to facts.
3. i myself won't change my mind
4. we are pisses everyone here.

Fine,

Lets work on a cease fire :P

[UoUo]

Look. i won't countinum to argue with you.

1. You whouldn't change your mind
2. you are not willing to hear to facts.
3. i myself won't change my mind
4. we are pisses everyone here.

Fine,

Lets work on a cease fire :P

Done. :D

[Inquisitor]

just wanted to say yes...

[cut]

I really don't remeber posting this, for a second I thought I'd been posting drunk again, but then I realised it's two years old. So everyone remember not to expect replies from people at the start of the thread.

[Kaplanr]

should a palestinian state be created

YES. Just not near Israel!!

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

I really don't remeber posting this, for a second I thought I'd been posting drunk again, but then I realised it's two years old. So everyone remember not to expect replies from people at the start of the thread.

Wow, I didn't even notice. Zarathustra bumped it, shoot him.

[Kaplanr]

Quote:
Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal declared on Wednesday that the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and northern West Bank marked the beginning of the end of the Zionist dream in Palestine.

"The resistance and the steadfastness of or people forced the Zionists to withdraw," he boasted. "The resistance is capable of ending the Israeli occupation and achieving all our rights. The armed struggle is the only strategy that Hamas possesses."

Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas's overall leader in the Gaza Strip, said in an interview published on Wednesday that his movement will move its activities to the West Bank after the disengagement.

Asked about Hamas's future plans, Zahar said: "Neither the liberation of the Gaza Strip, nor the liberation of the West Bank or even Jerusalem will suffice us. Hamas will pursue the armed struggle until the liberation of all our lands. We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."


So the question becomes, why aren't we within our rights to obliterate Hamas as a military force? Why can't we send in Apaches and infantry the next time they stage one of their thousand strong armed demonstrations? I think I'm pretty tired of playing by Marquis of Queensbury rules when it comes to the lives of my family and friends.

[wulfstan]

Once the arabs take control of Gaza, will it look as nice as when the jews were there? For example, decent roads, plumbing, villas with drive ways etc?

I doubt it, but let them live there if they want, and let those Zionists who want to stay live among the Palestinians.

[hajaji]

Well, they deserve a state like any other people.
The problem is that they already have a state, it name is JORDAN

Most of Jordanians ppl are Palestinians (~70%).
The problem is that Jordan is not democracy but another arab dictatorial state. So this number does not came to fulfillment.

[sp2c]

sure build it, give them their state

give the state clear borders, ambassadors, food, flowers and whatever and when there is another attack it will an illegal act of agression from one against another sovereign nation and warrants a military response

[SeanAshi]

Who's gonna get it first, Khaled Mashaal or Mahmoud al-Zahar?

[Palmach]

sure build it, give them their state

give the state clear borders, ambassadors, food, flowers and whatever and when there is another attack it will an illegal act of agression from one against another sovereign nation and warrants a military response

Yeah, right. It's wishful thinking at its best. Hamas will continue to carry out terrorist attacks, Palestinians government will continue to make a sad face and claim "its doing all it can to restrain the extrimist", Israeli civilians will continue to die, and numerous international bodies will contine to make a fass anytime Israel makes an attempt to defend itself.

[SeanAshi]

sure build it, give them their state

give the state clear borders, ambassadors, food, flowers and whatever and when there is another attack it will an illegal act of agression from one against another sovereign nation and warrants a military response

Yeah, right. It's wishful thinking at its best. Hamas will continue to carry out terrorist attacks, Palestinians government will continue to make a sad face and claim "its doing all it can to restrain the extrimist", Israeli civilians will continue to die, and numerous international bodies will contine to make a fass anytime Israel makes an attempt to defend itself.Yes and Israel can tell them all to go to hell. woot

[TuNeRsHaRk]

i think it would stop some of the violence but i guess in ways people would just get angry

[gaijinsamurai]

Palestinians should have the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem as their state. Israeli settlers who want to remain in the West Bank should be able to do so only if they accept the fact that they do so as guests of the Palestinians, and Palestinians who want "right of return" to their homes lost in 1948 should do the same as far as accepting Israeli sovereignty.

[Palmach]

Palestinians should have the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem as their state. Israeli settlers who want to remain in the West Bank should be able to do so only if they accept the fact that they do so as guests of the Palestinians, and Palestinians who want "right of return" to their homes lost in 1948 should do the same as far as accepting Israeli sovereignty.

Has hell frozen over?

[James]

Hmm... A post almost 2 years old is bumped, flames ensue, and only two recent viewers seem to have noticed...

bye bye.