The US milita movement whats that all about then?

[martinexsquaddie]

who are these guys and why it's not like the britsh are going to invade again and the indians have mostly been wiped out so why?
back in the 1980's somebody treid to set up the "alpha Group" a resistance group to fight a possible russian invasion with pump action shotguns. After the laughter had stopped at the home Office somebady was despatched from the MOD to point out we already had a part time volunteer force called the TA they could join otherwise they could risk prosecution. Most states on the planet take a dim view of private armed groups training in military tactics. Is it a fact there just smeemed to be harmless or are they allowed so airsofters have someone to look down on :lol:

[James]

It was a phenomena of the mid 1990s... It really was a bit like airsofters training with real weapons :roll: ... They were afraid that black helecopters were going to abduct them during the night or something - I don't know. I believe that if you watch many episodes of the X-Files, it will help to shed light on them. :lol:

[FallenAngel]

I dunno James, the sh!t the feds pulled at Ruby Ridge and Waco could add some credability to black helicopters coming for them ;)

Interesting to note, Militia's in general are viewed as part of the neo-nazi/white power movement when it just isn't so. For instance, in the mid 1990's, there was a Missouri militia that tried to volunteer it's services to the local sheriff when a little girl went missing in the woods and the police had asked for volunteers. Now, this militia was about 40-50 guys, mostly in their 30s (many of which had been honorably discharged from the armed services) who had all the necessary gear- radios, flashlights, a few boats, hiking and rock climbing gear, etc.- but they were turned down. They were told that they weren't allowed to join the volunteers to search for the missing girl. I find that sad. (the little girl was eventually found a few days later btw :) )

[He219]

That reminds me of a really funny movie from 1983 called 'The Survivors'.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000633R5.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

"Blasphemy! Oh, you'll smoke a turd in hell for that! "

"What kind of man gives cigarettes to trees?"

:P

[Smoothie104]

http://www.michiganmilitia.com/




http://www.awrm.org/

[Upfrontreporting]

Hmm.. Without knowing that much about these so-called militias I don't feel uncomfortable saying this: They seem like a bunch of lunatics, if you want to do something that smells like military but can't go full time, join your respective countries reserves or national guards...

All this militia crap seems like a waste of time... army rejects!


regards

[a. enders]

Survivors,right on.One of my faves.Militia = Fat guy military wannabes who think they could defend America from anything,and besides playing with guns is super nifty! :roll: :bash:

[96B]

Most of those militia types are anti government/survivalists that tend to live out in the mid-west. Lunatics indeed...

[TacoDelRio]

Hey guys.

Militias aren't what people stereotypically think they are. Granted, you will meet nutty people, and many idiots, but it's the same for all lines of work/play/lifestyle/whatever. But there are many nice people who are understanding folks.

If any of you have a problem with militia members, then go urinate on the graves of the minutemen from the Revolutionary War. I'm sure they'll really appreciate it. But then again, they were just playing "army". I mean, even I can't possibly know how important my country is. I'm sure than when I go to Infantry School in the US Army, we will be training to play "army", won't we? "Oh, I hope they don't make me actually work, cause I'm not up to it!"

Some of you guys should stop bashing things. Grow up, and keep an open mind. Take those blinders off. Not everything is like what you see on TV or in the movies.

Just some more thoughts and opinions.

PFC Dacey
US Army

[kris]

Just my opinion, but it depends on what type of "militia" your referring to- the modern day militia aka National Guard, perhaps the Weaver family "militia", or maybe the image the media has created for you? Either way, I'll throw some quotes in, you determine whatever you want....

“What are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each ma against his bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of every American…The ultimate power of the sword is not in the hands of the federal and state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain in the hands of the people.”—Tench Coxe

“When we assume the Soldier, we did not lay aside the Citizen.”—George Washington, New York Legislature, 1775.

“The militia is the dread of tyrants and the guard of freemen.”—Gov. R. Lucas, former Major General of the Ohio Militia, 1832

“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people, that is the best and most effective way to enslave them.”— George Mason

“...and what country can preserve its liberties if the rulers are not warned time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.” —Thomas Jefferson

“...Arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace.”—Thomas Paine

“The United States should get rid of its militias.” —Joseph Stalin

I take insult to semperfi's comment of referring to the "anti-government" (another broad term) as lunatics, to some, the idea of just owning a gun would make you a lunatic.......
Kris

[California Joe]

This ain't 1776. And I own, and build guns all the time, so blow me if you think I'm leftist or some ****. You take your local Moose club and arm them with SKS's and dress them up with whatever you bought on sale at The Sportsman's Guide and let them run around the woods firing live ammo in case the BAD GUYS ever get to East Butt**** to ravish they're daughters. Throw in a few 12 packs and just a little bit of mistrust of anyone that isn't white that they went to High School with. Welcome to the Militia. PS Just because you served in the Armed Forces doesn't mean you aren't an asshole. Timothy McVeigh anyone?

[mocking_loudly]

Any one with a hard on for militias should read Christophers Whitcombs book Cold Zero.

I think militias are made up of paranoid americans who think the government is putting mind probes up their ass.

[Seiyuuki]

Isn't the National Guard just a fancy name for the modern day state's militia?

[GLax]

semperfi2003
Most of those militia types are anti government/survivalists that tend to live out in the mid-west. Lunatics indeed...

You cant say anti government lunatic without thinking of...

KKK
neo-nazis
Black Panthers
DOC
etc etc...

i dunno guys, they dont seem like anything more than a heavily armed gang to me. and yes, thats why we have the National Guard Seiyuuki

[FallenAngel]

just FYI for you all.

According to US Law, the "militia" has two parts. The first is the 'organized militia' which translates to the modern day national guard.

The second is the 'unorganized militia' which is any male citizen between the ages of 17 and 45 which can be called up for military service.


Militia = Fat guy military wannabes who think they could defend America from anything,and besides playing with guns is super nifty!


Uh Huh. Just like airsofter = pussy military wannabes who think they can be SF, and besides, playing with guns is super nifty! :roll:

I agree COMPLETELY with MrSkorotsnoy. The militias you guys are thinking about are the very small minority that the liberal media has used to suggest that ALL militias are wackos. :cantbeli:

[mocking_loudly]

Come on every one on this forum is a nut job, I admit that the NSA is monitoring my bowel movements.

[96B]

Call me ignorant, but what is the point of modern day militias? After all, it is not the colonial times anymore and to my knowledge we are not going to be invaded by another country on our homeland anytime soon except maybe by Canada. :lol:

Seriously though, I am referring to the ones that have military style "training camps" and they all dress up in fatigues and march around. Why not just join the military or National Guard? I dont mean to stereotype all of the milita people and no offense to anybody but I am just curious as to the point of it. If you want to spend all of your time dressing up and acting like you are in the military, why not just join?

[mocking_loudly]

Man, semper its simple.

They are would be's if they could be's.

[jprichard]

With the exception of the Coast Guard I've never heard of any branch of the military taking a large role in defending the United States. Many in the militia movement may feel threatened by this lack of homeland defense.
Also the United States is the most powerful nation in the world right now
but this may not always be so. One day militias may play a role in keeping law and order and national defense.

[Ichhabe]

One day militias may play a role in keeping law and order and national defense.

rofl

I know that "things" change fast these days, but HE-LLO!?! What country, let's say the next 10 000 years are gonna be able to invade the US of A's mainland?

But let's get serious. The only way that the Militia may play a role in keeping law and order( rofl ), would be after a devastating American civil war, part II. But then it would be a society that would make the Third Reich look like a holiday camp. Hope we wont end up there...

[mocking_loudly]

I plan to invade in my rubber boat....

[martinexsquaddie]

why not just join the national guard?
The point of Soldiers is to be of use to the state a militia which can't actually be trusted to do gate duty at an airport . Isn't trusted by local law enforcement even to look for a lost child :oops: . isn'nt a huge amount of use to anyone. Waco and ruby ridge seemed from an outsider to be a meeting of paranoid Nutjobs and badly trained poorly led police types seriously overstating there capabilitys and at the Waco the goverment just wanting the entire deadly farce overwith and when the brown stuff hit the fan big time doing what all goverments do lieing through there teeth.
As everyone knows the soviets/UN all ready have an armoured division training in the mid west to take all there guns away with help of black helicopters and the fedral task forces I don't really see what an sks and a 6 pack are going to do to stop the might of the UN empire or have they just whatched Red Dawn once too often :lol:

[martinexsquaddie]

mocking loundly I'll have my kite surfing rig next summer which coast do you want to take :roll: We can show what a real army of one can do rofl
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK rofl

[mocking_loudly]

rofl martin.

Watch out militias martin and I coming for you!.

I'm armed with alot of beer and a horrible sense of irony. ;)

[kris]

I believe 80% of you can't grasp the simple concept of the "historical militia". And as for it not being 1776, no one invading American soil, why not the National Guard/Military......1. History repeats itself, Rome is a great example of what happens to a great and large nation (empire) 2. Cold War? 3. once again, the point of a "militia" is to not play soldier, of course I'm sure there are militia's out there who "just play soldier" but they're not a militia. And don't be naive to believe that America will be around forever, it will fall at some point in the future, and don't believe there want be another civil war (Rome)... its just a historical fact. Remember the Swiss, every person was armed and was the military back in the World War era, can you imagine every American being armed if someone dared try to invade...
Kris
A good example what an "unorganized militia" is:
http://www.ncmilitia.org/index.html

[Desert-Fox]

since many of you think that it is outrageous to think that america could be invaded....
i want to remind you that you were invaded in WWII
by a supposedly technologically inferior army.

[Seiyuuki]

since many of you think that it is outrageous to think that america could be invaded....
i want to remind you that you were invaded in WWII
by a supposedly technologically inferior army.

Attacked, yes. Invaded, no.

[martinexsquaddie]

oh yes civillisation is going to be saved by some fat guys with second hand Bdus and SkS :oops:
Surrender now Mocking Loundly and I are coming. If you behave you won't get hurt rofl
hey does threatning to invade and subjugate the USA by force break the patriot act :P

[James]

since many of you think that it is outrageous to think that america could be invaded....
i want to remind you that you were invaded in WWII
by a supposedly technologically inferior army.

Attacked, yes. Invaded, no.

Japanese soldiers were in the Aleutian Islands for a bit. Technically, the U.S. was invaded.

[California Joe]

I believe 80% of you can't grasp the simple concept of the "historical militia". And as for it not being 1776, no one invading American soil, why not the National Guard/Military......1. History repeats itself, Rome is a great example of what happens to a great and large nation (empire) 2. Cold War? 3. once again, the point of a "militia" is to not play soldier, of course I'm sure there are militia's out there who "just play soldier" but they're not a militia. And don't be naive to believe that America will be around forever, it will fall at some point in the future, and don't believe there want be another civil war (Rome)... its just a historical fact. Remember the Swiss, every person was armed and was the military back in the World War era, can you imagine every American being armed if someone dared try to invade...
Kris
A good example what an "unorganized militia" is:
http://www.ncmilitia.org/index.html

You want to defend this country? You join the military or the National Guard. You don't get a bunch of yahoo's together cause your brother knows this guy that said he was a SEAL in the 'Nam, and he's willing to train you in case the Guatemalan Paratroops drop in Idaho. Don't be retarded. Most militia groups think they're going to protect themselves from OUR government. Like that would work any better. Newsflash, if the US Government wants to kick your ass, Cletus and Bubba and their Mini 14's with the extra large magazine are not going to last long.

[kris]

rofl CaliforniaJoe, if you've paid any attention to this post I wouldn't have to reply to you, but :roll: congratulations on allowing the media to be your eyes to the world, hey, that's fine if you like it that way but I prefer my own to do the seeing.

[James]

Question for you James, if you don't mind. The invasion/not invasion thing brought this up between me and a buddy at work here. Technically overunning a nations Embassy, for example, the US Embassy in Iran in 1979; does that count as an invasion? And in a situation like that, it counts as an act of war, no? Thanks. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

That is a good question. Webster's online dictionary defines indave as:

1 : to enter for conquest or plunder
2 : to encroach upon : INFRINGE
3 : to spread over or into as if invading

I suppose that if one considers and embassy to be sovereign national territory, one could argue that U.S. territory was invaded by the Iranians in 1979. Then again, I think the "invasion" was undertaken by civilians... I think that technically, yes, Iran invaded U.S. territory, but it is hard to think about this as an invasion. You've flummoxed me.

:roll: I hope GWB doesn't visit this site... I might have given him just the case he needs to do the business with Iran... :roll:

[James]

oh yes civillisation is going to be saved by some fat guys with second hand Bdus and SkS :oops:
Surrender now Mocking Loundly and I are coming. If you behave you won't get hurt rofl
hey does threatning to invade and subjugate the USA by force break the patriot act :P

Eh, Martin and mocking...

To quote the honorable president of the United States...

BRING IT ON!

Make sure you invade the west coast. I'll meet you there. We'll see what happens! :P

[Dominique]

OK, gents I'll finally jump in on this one. First off, I'm a member of the Army National Guard(the direct descendants of the first state militias), a firearm owner, and fairly conseritive in my politics. The Army National Guard is a reserve componet of the the US Army. In peace time we operate under the control of of our state governer, unless we are federalized (as I am now), where we come under the direct control of the regular army. We attend basic traing with regular army and army resrves, we go to army schools, our checks come from the army, and most importantly, we follow all US Army regulations and fall under the UCMJ.

My state also has an organized state funded, and equipped, militia called the "Virginia Defense Force". They train for aiding the civil powers during natural disasters, searching for missing persons, and assisting during large scale civil disturbances. the one thing I find interesting is that they are NOT ARMED. They are how ever a good group of people. Many of them of them are retired military and the others are people who want to help out in an emergency.

I've also had the experience of dealing with some militia types. Most of these so called "militia" types are nothing more than wannabe's(I couldn't get in the military becuase I'm blind as a bat, 75lbs. overweight, and only scored in the single digits on the ASVAB), paranoids (the NWO/UN/Catholic Churchor just fill in the blank, is coming to get my guns and create a one world government), nuts (the government planted a micro chip in my brain and beams signals through the T.V.), criminals(we'll finance the coming civil war by robbing a bank and killing some government thugs i.e. Police, FBI or any other government agent), or pompus self-rightous wind bags (As a true American patriot, I'm standing up for gun owners Godgiven right to keep and bare firearms) and pathetic losers (yeah mom, If I get that job as the night security guard at Walmart, I'll move out of the basement) who need to feel that they belong to a group.

Being part of a militia group makes them feel special. They get a warm fuzzy when they don their "uniform", grab the AK out of the closet and spend a weekend with the boys conducting "urban combat training", or learning how to make an IED out of common household chemicals. They like the feel of power they get when they say " I'm a colonel in the Army of Western Montana". Hell, I wish I could get on TV and boast "We train harder than Delta, or the Navy SEALs. When the ATF and FBI cime to take our guns We'll be more than a match for them." They don't follow any laws or government reglation, they just make them up as they go along (hey, Bob I finally got some BDUs, and old steel pot, and acouple of new mags for my mini-14, can you promote me to lieutenant now?).

Profesionals (be they in law enforcement, or the military) stay as far away form these groups as possible. If you choose to beleive most of the crap these groups put out, then do so. I'm not going to change your mind here. The few instances where they have been helpful are few and far between. If you want to do something useful, and wear a uniform on a part time basis join the Reserves, NG, USCG Auxilary, the CAP (they do a hell of a job assisting with rescues and drug interdiction), or a local police or sheriff's reserve/auxilary program. You will get some good training, great experience, and most importantly, you will get to see for yourself what your government is actually up to.

I'll get off my soap box at this time. If anyone want's to discuss this further, feel free to post a private msg.

[JiJoMacLE45]

Preach on brother!

[Ichhabe]

since many of you think that it is outrageous to think that america could be invaded....
i want to remind you that you were invaded in WWII
by a supposedly technologically inferior army.

Attacked, yes. Invaded, no.

Japanese soldiers were in the Aleutian Islands for a bit. Technically, the U.S. was invaded.

I said mainland. Not some remote tiny "is that a fly **** or is it an island" island. Most of us in here knew that the Japaneese had some tiny island in the Aleutians. Mainland, ok?

[kris]

Just curious, but can anybody here quote the 2nd Amendment for me?

[Dominique]

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The key words being "A Well regulated militia". That's not Joe Bob, little Billy, and uncle Mike slapping on some BDUs, calling themselves a military unit, and “fighting NWO one world government tyranny.” :bash:

[kris]

To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws.
---John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788)


Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).


Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.


Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.
---Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.


When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor...
---George Mason Virginia Convention


That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.
--Virginia delegation's recommended bill of rights

[Sabre]

Any lawyers here?

(As a lot of you are Yanks I suppose at least one third are lawyers!)

I ask because the 2nd ammendment has always seemed to be grammatically incorrect to me. Is this just Law-speak, or 'Ye Olde Yankee-e Style-e'?

It is quite ambiguous. But the link to 'A well regulated militia' is there.

I have found some stuff on changes to the constitution made in 1903 (the forming of the NG) and 1918 (confirming the definition of the 'organised' and 'unorganised' militias).

It seems that anyone male between the ages of 17 and 45 and not in the Regs/Reserves/NG is in the 'unorganised militia'.

The loophole here is this: 'Is the unorganised militia still well regulated, if not are they still entitled to bear arms?'

Now it becomes a debate between those rigidly sticking to the word of law and those who interpret it how they will.

But even James Madison said:

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."

So you have to look at the era when the ammendment was written. Some still think that the idea is necessary still, others (including myself) believe that it is a relic from a time which is vastly different to ours, and when people could not have foreseen the modern world.

My views on the subject.

[kris]

Some still think that the idea is necessary still, others (including myself) believe that it is a relic from a time which is vastly different to ours, and when people could not have foreseen the modern world.

How different are people today then people of 1,000 years ago? We still have the same brain from centuries past and are our emotions and thoughts so drastically different from 200+ years ago that we can't comprehend what was written? I would say not, just because the dawn of technology came, humans are no more advanced in thought then those of our predecessors. America's Founding Fathers could foresee into the future, fundamentally because the future is the past; a time that is ongoing and a human race that is unchanged.
Does that mean then that because 300 years down the road the world as we see it now will be so different that our understanding of morals and freedom will not apply simply because it will be nothing more then a relic from the past?

[martinexsquaddie]

Well thats terribly intresting to be sure but a few blokes getting together to form a private "paramilitary force" anywhere else in the free word would at the very least have the authoritys taking a very keen interest if not slapping them down hard.
still think there sadder than airsofter players woot

[kris]

anywhere else in the free wor(l)d

FREE WORLD? rofl

[California Joe]

Are you high or just stupid? You own all of G Gordon's stacked and packed calendars don't you. I DO NOT NEED DAVE FROM THE LOCAL JIFFY LUBE DRESSING UP IN BDU'S AND PROTECTING ME IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. Why don't you and your pals get some wool uniforms and kepi's and some 1862 Springfields and have a ball.

PS you know jack **** about where my information comes from but it is way better than yours. Thank Gawd.

[mocking_loudly]

still think there sadder than airsofter players woot

Same here.

I think militias are made up delusional nut jobs that have hired out Navy SEALS to many times from the local truck stop.

If you want to defend your country pull your balls out of that purse and sign up for the real mans military.

On another note I scored last night. woot

[California Joe]

I didn't. Stupid wife.......

On a happier note a frigging hurricane is going to rip my roof off tomorrow.

[Vance]

since many of you think that it is outrageous to think that america could be invaded....
i want to remind you that you were invaded in WWII
by a supposedly technologically inferior army.

Attacked, yes. Invaded, no.

Japanese soldiers were in the Aleutian Islands for a bit. Technically, the U.S. was invaded.
Wrong. The Aleutian Islands is a part of Alaska, and Alaska was not made a state until 1959....so we were not invaded.

[Ratamacue]

They invaded Wake Island, no? Maybe not officially US territory, but in practice it was.

[James]

since many of you think that it is outrageous to think that america could be invaded....
i want to remind you that you were invaded in WWII
by a supposedly technologically inferior army.

Attacked, yes. Invaded, no.

Japanese soldiers were in the Aleutian Islands for a bit. Technically, the U.S. was invaded.
Wrong. The Aleutian Islands is a part of Alaska, and Alaska was not made a state until 1959....so we were not invaded.

Alaska was a U.S. territory... So, were "we" not attacked on 7 December 1941? Hawaii wasn't a state until 1959 either... :roll:

[Chris1]

I didn't. Stupid wife.......

On a happier note a frigging hurricane is going to rip my roof off tomorrow.

http://www.imagesjournal.com/issue08/reviews/lifeofbrian/pic7.jpg
always look on the briiight side of life...
:D

[California Joe]

They invaded Wake Island, no? Maybe not officially US territory, but in practice it was.

Is it just me or does Rat talk like Yoda?

[James]

Talk like Yoda he does not. Just you it is.

[kris]

Are you high or just stupid? You own all of G Gordon's stacked and packed calendars don't you. I DO NOT NEED DAVE FROM THE LOCAL JIFFY LUBE DRESSING UP IN BDU'S AND PROTECTING ME IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. Why don't you and your pals get some wool uniforms and kepi's and some 1862 Springfields and have a ball.

PS you know jack **** about where my information comes from but it is way better than yours. Thank Gawd.

Well first off, at least I back up my statements with crediable sources; you know, the founding fathers of America...I don't have a clue who G Gordon is.... And if anyone bothered to look at my profile, I'm a female and I don't even own a pair of BDU's or a weapon.....

[California Joe]

I have great respect for the Founding Fathers and all they accomplished. Read the book called Liberty by the historian Thomas Fleming, it's a great unbiased account of the Revolution.

That respect does not translate into respect for modern day militia movements and the paranoia and anti government rhetoric that spews forth from them.

[kris]

To me, your contradicting yourself. Once again, the mainstream militia that you see on your TV is not what would be described as an 'unorganized militia' (my opinion). I agree with many of you that modern day 'militias' can be less then substantial, but I think everyone has completely missed what I'm getting at! I've been trying to avoid doing this (really :D ):

1. It's unconstitutional to not allow citizens to form an unorganized miltia and time does not change this fact.
2. I will list the url again for what I consisder to be what a militia should be: http://www.ncmilitia.org/index.html (please actually take the time to visit and read through the site before acting like you know what's already on there :roll: )
3. Miltia members need to get their a$$ in shape!!! It's quite obvious why they do need to....
4. True American miltia's are not anti-government, this would signify that they want to overthrow their present government to be replaced by a new one or no government what so ever.
5. Joining the military/n.g. would defeat the point and in case you missed it, the proposed VA bill of rights defines for you that at the time the people did see a difference b/w militia and a standing army


That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

Finally, I don't care if you don't agree with me, your free to think whatever you want and have an opinion that is different from mine, but, to ignore a presented source and just say "I don't care" or "so what" and continue to make snide, ignorant, or sarcastic remarks is just foolish and makes the person come off as being uneducated.

my whole 2 cents

[martinexsquaddie]

ITS A HANG OVER FROM THE 1700'S the british are not planning to invade but if the defence of the US was left to the militas they might. Though knowing our sense of fair play would probably leave in disgust when confronted by this Bunch of muppets :roll:
theres a standing army theres a national guard there are support services for the police. Its the 21st century The Us military is the most technically advanced Military force in exsistance it really don't need a bunch of muppets in 2nd hand gear who are not responsable to anybody.
The UN Don't want to take your guns off you but your fellow citzens may want to. If you tried that **** in the UK you'd be in jail so fast your feet would'nt touch the ground and with good reason you can say what you like about a goverment but when you start organising even a bunch of half baked losers to fight it and start stock piling weapons they have a duty to everybody else to take you seriously. I feel pity for which ever FBI agent pissed off his boss so much that he has to write reports on the militia. Love it or leave I belive is a patriots cry. So why don't you take your guns and you pathetic hate filled philosophys and piss off to the Sandwhich islands. ( not that you'd be brighter enough to work out where they are. Why do you tossers wear Us army BDUS its not like you even had the balls to put comfort and desires 2nd place and join a reserve unit.
A soldier A REAL SOLDIER accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the body politic of which he is a member defending it with his life if need be.
Not wanking over his SKs while having a fantasy of what he's going to do when the feds come for his guns. Armed revolt against a goverment which even amnesty does'nt consider a tyranny is teenage style behaviour for pepole who are too stupid to figure out how politics works or just have a deep disdain for normal pepole.
The consitution of the US is a great piece of law But was written 300 years ago it probably isn't perfect nothing made by men is otherwise we'd still be stoning people.

[mocking_loudly]

I think you just killed them with logic martin. rofl

It's like talking to a brick wall though, they honestly believe that they are some kind of important US defence structure, when the rest of the world views them as loonies with phallic fire arms.

[kris]

british are not planning to invade
No **** Sherlock!


The UN Don't want to take your guns off you
http://www.un.org/partners/civil_society/m-disarm.htm
Read through it if you can handle it. Oh, and please use proper english.


If you tried that **** in the UK you'd be in jail so fast your feet would'nt touch the ground
...free world...


Love it or leave I belive is a patriots cry. So why don't you take your guns and you pathetic hate filled philosophys and piss off to the Sandwhich islands
Hate? It seems to me your the only one getting upset about all of this.


not that you'd be brighter enough to work out where they are
You do mean bright don't you?


But was written 300 years ago it probably isn't perfect nothing made by men is otherwise we'd still be stoning people.
Ok, I'll give you a challange, rewrite the constitution and post it on this board, since your so bright, of course it's ok if it's not perfect :) The free world will forgive you! -- I do mean this in earnest --


I think you just killed them with logic martin
Logic: (1) : a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning (2) : something that forces a decision apart from or in opposition to reason


they honestly believe that they are some kind of important US defence structure
http://oprfhs.org/division/history/interpretations/2001interp/Bach,David.doc
An Analysis of the Role of the Militia in the Revolutionary War - very un-biased explaining the lack of command among the miltia but also pointing out it's importance.

Can either of you confirm to me that you have read any of the sources that I've listed... if you haven't then why continue to embarrass yourselves (and not because you disagree with me, but because you lack explanation in your defense). If your not going to bother doing the research, don't bother posting ... to any person who thinks logically, we need more then baseless rambling.

[SOG]

I think you just killed them with logic martin. rofl

It's like talking to a brick wall though, they honestly believe that they are some kind of important US defence structure, when the rest of the world views them as loonies with phallic fire arms.

who cares if they are? who cares if they do? its thier right and not yours to take away. they arent hurting anyone. in how many instances have militia members gone nuts and shot everyone up? arguably a couple in the past what 10 years? and now we have a bunch of exmil hagis makeing jokes of peoples freedoms they insured daily?

who gives a **** if they want to weekend retreat. who cares if they want to work out and hike and camp and shoot guns and drink bear once a month? who cares if they want to get out and have fun excersising, bitching about the government, getting away from bad marriages, bitching about life and tossing back a few cold ones. who really gives a ****?

hear, lemme line up your next five whimsical no point topics: fags, fat guys with *******, gothic freaks, tran******s, teenage pop music. when your done ragging on them and how wrong they are and how screwed up they are and that everything they do is a waste of time and thier lives are screwed up, and youve finished with the "well back in my day", well lets start harping on miniorities. lets sit on computers like the tough pussies we are and chat like fag hags about what makes america diverse, different or great.

this is why i have no repsect for anyone i meet unless i know them, dont matter if there soldiers, dont matter if there kings, dont matter if they dedicated thier lives and thier brothers lives for making this world a better place, the fact is most of em are the same cant ****s you find in every office in every street, and in every forum in america.

oh, here comes more dry eye humour from the great mocking loudly about people doing there own thing not harming ****, oh the terror, please stop, your giving the militias such a beating as you sit in your own house wasting your life jacking on about militias. WTG. ha ha, im some self righteous left brow exmil super genius pissing my life away while ill slander people i dont know and have never met with mah beer in my hand cuz thats all i got in life.

this has been the most amaizing thread of circle sowing grown men jaw on about what they dont get. heres the vets and the "able" of america folks. whining and dining like any other post op teen about thier new **** job hand in hand. these are the people we hold parades for and salute. pathetic. its hurts just to think about these slacks next to any professional in any job anywhere.

[mocking_loudly]

Oh SOG, stop being a cry baby - i'm not reading all that.

[SOG]

Oh SOG, stop being a cry baby - i'm not reading all that.

yeah i know what you mean, its hard to read inebriated. cheers :D

[mocking_loudly]

yeah i know what you mean, its hard to read inebriated. cheers :D

rofl

Thats actually a good come back!.

[TacoDelRio]

Hi guys.

You know, with all online forums, there are people who look like "nuts".

Why don't we all get back to talking about military photos, and grow up as a group, in the realisation that everyone is different, and lives their lives differently.

If somehow, a group of whoevers invaded the USA, I could do my best to fight them off with what I have. That may not be alot, but I only have one life, and it sure as hell beats posting stuff on an internet forum, doesn't it?

If you think some fat guy in the south with a rifle is pathetic, try someone posting useless junk on a forum.

I hope I didn't waste anyone else's oh-so-valuable time. I'm starting to realise how pointless it is for myself to respond to this sort of stuff.

PFC Dacey
US Army

[kris]

I agree, this pointless discussion has gone on long enough.

[mocking_loudly]

No one likes a quiter, I'm sure martin and I can keep this baby going for another 4 pages.

[martinexsquaddie]

well having a pointless job and a free broad band account I've got plenty of free time.
and making fun of the stupid is fun
Hey mocking I think the Ukraine have some Hinds going surplus now all we need is some Black Paint and a map of militia camps.
and I've invented an entire new blood sport rofl
Baggsy I get to be Gunner first camp we vist
Oh i forgot we need to put big UN signs on the sides rofl rofl rofl

[Hubris]

As everyone knows the soviets/UN all ready have an armoured division training in the mid west to take all there guns away with help of black helicopters and the fedral task forces I don't really see what an sks and a 6 pack are going to do to stop the might of the UN empire or have they just whatched Red Dawn once too often :lol:

Interesting historical point. I once read a pamphlet released during WWI titled "100 Lies of the Kaiser". The pamphlet debunked 100 rumors spreading through the USA during WWI. What I found fascinating was that many of these rumors I recognized as contemporary "urban myths" (e.g. POW sends innocuous letter home mentioning stamp collecting, under stamp is message "They have cut off my tounge").

One of the "Lies of the Kaiser" was the very same above referenced story of foreign troops training in the Colorado forests. That story has been floating around for 90 years without a shred of evidence. :lol:

[FuzziWuzzi]

Private Militias ...PPhhhfffff!
All you need are 8 rings and ...
"ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL !!..
(last part said in best darth vader voice)
SEE ///> http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3708
http://www.wolf-alliance-int.com/frodo_has_failed.jpg

[martinexsquaddie]

Once saw some photo's on one of these mad conspriacy sites that "proved the UN had an amoured Division in the states.
Had flatbed trucks loaded with T62s Bmps etc but if you looked closely they were Iraqi and had signs of battle damage. :lol:
The Foreign Troops looked to be Gurkha's Now it is a well estabilished fact that Prince phillip is actually an 8 foot green lizard in disguise :backhand: but even so it would be hard fact to prove the british are planning to invade again :fork:

[mocking_loudly]

I still plan to invade in the name of the (former) British empire!, expect a full frontal assualt with the barmy army in full vocal swing "more beer, more beer, more beer!". :lol:

I will let the your future dictator martin explain who the barmy army are.

[FuzziWuzzi]

...Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Barmy Army is...

It's the Barmy Army which is doing Britain proud. With their relentless good cheer and witty sledging of the invincible Aussies, they show that good humour is even more important than winning.

"You all live in a convict colony," they sing to the tune of Yellow Submarine. They chant "three dollars to the pound" to remind us of our inferior currency

They sing to us that our "culture amounts to no more than Rolf and his didgeridoo".

And when our players get out they sing: "God save YOUR gracious Queen, Long live YOUR noble Queen", emphasising the "your" by pointing their fingers at the Australians.

The convict theme is a favourite: "We came here with backpacks, you with ball and chain!".
http://www.cricket.org/logos/NATIONAL/ENG/CLUBS/barmy-army/ashestour.gif

Another republic taunt is this: "The Aussies love the English, you might find it quite strange. 'Cos we sent them all down under, with only balls and chains. And when they see the English, they always shout and scream. But when they had the chance to vote they voted for the Queen."
..taken from smh- "Just not cricket - a bloody good laugh"
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/04/1041566268540.html
Barmy Army homepage
http://www.cricket.org/link_to_database/NATIONAL/ENG/CLUBS/barmy-army/tours/

[Dominique]

I think you just killed them with logic martin. rofl

It's like talking to a brick wall though, they honestly believe that they are some kind of important US defence structure, when the rest of the world views them as loonies with phallic fire arms.

who cares if they are? who cares if they do? its thier right and not yours to take away. they arent hurting anyone. in how many instances have militia members gone nuts and shot everyone up? arguably a couple in the past what 10 years? and now we have a bunch of exmil hagis makeing jokes of peoples freedoms they insured daily?

who gives a f*** if they want to weekend retreat. who cares if they want to work out and hike and camp and shoot guns and drink bear once a month? who cares if they want to get out and have fun excersising, bitching about the government, getting away from bad marriages, bitching about life and tossing back a few cold ones. who really gives a ****?

hear, lemme line up your next five whimsical no point topics: fags, fat guys with *******, gothic freaks, tran******s, teenage pop music. when your done ragging on them and how wrong they are and how screwed up they are and that everything they do is a waste of time and thier lives are screwed up, and youve finished with the "well back in my day", well lets start harping on miniorities. lets sit on computers like the tough pussies we are and chat like fag hags about what makes america diverse, different or great.

this is why i have no repsect for anyone i meet unless i know them, dont matter if there soldiers, dont matter if there kings, dont matter if they dedicated thier lives and thier brothers lives for making this world a better place, the fact is most of em are the same cant ****s you find in every office in every street, and in every forum in america.

oh, here comes more dry eye humour from the great mocking loudly about people doing there own thing not harming ****, oh the terror, please stop, your giving the militias such a beating as you sit in your own house wasting your life jacking on about militias. WTG. ha ha, im some self righteous left brow exmil super genius pissing my life away while ill slander people i dont know and have never met with mah beer in my hand cuz thats all i got in life.

this has been the most amaizing thread of circle sowing grown men jaw on about what they dont get. heres the vets and the "able" of america folks. whining and dining like any other post op teen about thier new **** job hand in hand. these are the people we hold parades for and salute. pathetic. its hurts just to think about these slacks next to any professional in any job anywhere.

Lets start off with "militia" groups getting into trouble with the law. I'll give you two examples right of the top of my head. Here in Virginia a so called militia group called the "Blue Ridge Hunt Club" decided to arm themselves for the upcoming civil war. To do it they decided to raid or ambush a National Guard unit in their area.

One of the guys in the unit just happened to notice that every time he drove a government vehicle, the same car was always following him. He got suspicious, and called a buddy of his over at the State Police. They placed an unmarked car near the armory to keep an eye on things. Sure enough these knuckleheads were trying to perform a target reconnaissance of the armory. When the cops pulled over the car they found a nice little cache of illegally modified weapons (I'm sure they were needed to help rappel all of those jack booted government thugs0, body armor, night vision goggles, maps of the armory, etc.

One of these true American patriots rolled over on his buddies, and told about how they planned to ambush a convoy (who would of course not be armed and capable of defending themselves) and steal the weapons they were carrying (which are locked up in racks with the ammo stored in another vehicle).

Another group out in Arkansas got some "hot intel" that "UN troops" were positioning equipment (they were actually NATO Partnership for Peace troops storing their gear for an up coming training exercise before deploying to Bosnia) at Ft. Chaffee, Arkansas. Being defenders of the free world that they were, they decided that they should assault this invading foreign army and stop them in there tracks. Luckily, one of them got a case of cold feet, and called the local FBI field office. When the FBI served them with a search warrant (being the one world government stooges that they were), what a shock, they once again discovered a large stash of illegal weapons and home made explosives.

Now as far as them getting together, knocking back some beers, and putting some rounds down range, I don't give a rat’s fat hairy ass. It's when you begin to represent yourselves as an organized, armed, sanctioned paramilitary force that I have problems. As I've stated before many states actually have a state militia. It's funded by state taxpayers, it's organized by a governing body that is required to obey state and federal laws, and most importantly it's answerable to the people of the state they live in. There is no way in hell you would allow 20 guys to slap on some old police uniforms, grab a badge from the internet, go out and "train" and claim they are a police force. But somehow it's fine fore them to pretend to be a military force?

As for the next five topics you listed, I could care less about them. As long as they don't bother anyone or break the law, whatever floats their boat. I don't sit on a computer and talk tough anything. I'm currently out here wearing a US Army uniform every day and doing a job that many of them probably wish they could do. I've been a Corrections Officer and a Sheriff's Deputy (and will go back to doing so when I'm released from active duty). I've been on a SWAT team and instructed other teams (I'm not talking **** either, I can verify my bona fides) So until these wanabe's do at least the same, I will continue to talk **** about them. As I've stated before, if you want to be a soldier or a cop, then go do it and quit pretending. :bash:

As far as you giving me your respect, I don't need it. The only peoples respect I care about are my families and my peers. :fork: As for us being slacks, exactly what get service do you perform for society?

I'm sorry for rambling on so long. If I've upset or offended anyone so be it.

SGT(P) Dominique Sumner
Virginia Army National Guard
Virginia Tactical Police Association
South Carolina Tactical Officers Association
US Correctional Tactical Officers Association

[martinexsquaddie]

Now I was mostly making fun of the becuase I thought there were a bunch of losers even sadder than me and belive me thats going some :roll:
But planning terrorist attacks even ineptly crosses the line hopefully there come to a sticky end sooner rather than later.
So mocking hows the parole application going rofl

[mocking_loudly]

So mocking hows the parole application going

It's a sad day for Operation Thunder Fart.

I was pulled over by a wild life officer, of cause I wacked out my m4 (airsoft) rifle and laid down some suppressing bb fire.
Unfortunately I suffered a major stoppage thus preventing me from my prime objective of capturing the American south.

Once in jail I used my one phone call to let my mate Andy McNab know the score and his currently organising an oppo to get my arse back.
I just hope the bastard doesn't get lost and end up in Syria!.

Exciting stuff martin.

[Sabre]

Kris:

When I said that I thought the idea was an out-dated relic, and that they couldn't forsee the modern world, I wasn't talking about the fundamentals of human psychology here.

You mentioned the role of the militia in the revolutionary war, you're right, it was important and that's why they wanted to keep it. If you remind yourself of the situation they faced 'post revolution' you can see why. Canada was full of British troops, without any form of defence the US would have been open to attack again (and it was in 1812).

The purpose of allowing people to keep their arms wasn't to give them the right to change the government by force. It was a very sensible, expedient measure to tie-in gun ownership to an obligation to defend the Union. So instead of having a bunch of farmers owning guns they would have had anyway, they now had a bunch of farmers constitutionally described as the 'militia' and therefore available for drafting in times of war.

My point was that now the world is different (not our brains?!), the US has a standing army (funnily enough, the founding fathers described peacetime armies as being a threat to liberty!) which is capable of dealing with strategic defence. There is no need to mobilise the civillian populus with pitchforks and muskets, what will they do to stop 30,000 T80's and T72's pouring over the German countryside?

The issue with guns now is that they kill around 30,000 people each year in the US. Don't you find that a high price to pay for sticking to your constitution? After all, you've ammended it so many times before. My point about the James Madison quote is that words alone mean jack all. It's the context that has to be interpreted and discussed in order not to end up revering some old peice of paper that is no longer relevant.

It strikes me that Americans walk around with their heads in the clouds. They have these ideals of freedom and liberty set down in the constitution that are untouchable. It doesn't even enter some people's heads that it could be wrong or need changing. They think that their way is the only right way and can not be improved upon, that to even think about doing so is 'tyranny' or 'unconstitutional' to the extent that you are classed as an 'enemy of freedom'. It is rhetoric that rivals even the most extreem of religious fundamentalism.

Do you not think it's odd that we send our army medics to your inner city hospitals to learn about gunshot wounds. I remember one colleague who was in Boston for a month or so. When he arrived he asked:

'So how many shot people do you get in the ER then?'

'About five or six a year.' (replied the American doctor)

It turns out that the US doctor meant five or six people actually shot WHILST IN THE ER!!! (He saw about 40-50 while there)

We're 'lucky' to see 5 people killed by firearms in the UK alltogether.

I'm sure that if I were to practice medicine in the US instead of the UK, I would be sick of seeing loads of shot-up people coming into my Casualty.

Though I suppose I would be working in a private facility for 'better' (read richer) people. As you decided that having a huge army was better than a health service.

:)

[Sabre]

Oh yeah!

Martin and Mocking: All you need is the 'Toon Army'

All the rest of the soft, shandy-drinking, southern sods can stay at home!

(They probably lost it for us the first time round!)

:)

[California Joe]

I come from a place called Vermont, a Frenchman named it, the British settled it and no one has ****ed with it since. It's an inhospitable place where gays are allowed to marry, much to the consternation of my brother who still lives there. But, I digress.... there are more guns per capita in that state than any place in the world other than some Iraqi's cellar that we haven't found. Nobody shoots anyone there. Unless they have antlers and rut a lot.

[SOG]

As far as you giving me your respect, I don't need it. The only peoples respect I care about are my families and my peers. As for us being slacks, exactly what get service do you perform for society?

i never mentioned respecting you. and you damn well better care wether people respect you in that line of work. how you carry yourself publicly is very important in the military. i worked with fine people in the armed forces during my time in MWR. i was not talking to you, and could less about what you need. and why do you group yourself in my terming of slacks? i was not talking to you again. did i quote anything you said? did i trample on any of your points? as for my job i am now simply a plumber and book keeper for a local company. i never attacked your job, nor did i attack thiers, i attacked thier morality that they show all too well and must bring to thier job. i have no clue why you felt the need to respond to me with a sad couple shots at militias, ooohh once again a few people have gun nuts over how many years?, this couldnt happen with bankers laywers moms teachers kids, oh wait, it happens all the time, who cares!? militias are hardly a problem in any picture. hell you forgot to mention the past national guard who have stolen grenades and guns for militias they are apart of. i am very aware of many more militia incidents that are blazed on the news for fun. big whoop, bout as irratable as **** on a boars ass.

i was taking shots at some exmil who i thought were crossing the line and acting like your average hoorz online. i know they re having fun but the sensess relentless bashing got old like the moment the topic was posted.

geez with all that police experience id'a thought you could at least read? i was never bashing you, your job or PROFESSIONALS like you. man you must be a hoot in the field.

[martinexsquaddie]

Califorina Joe what's the matter afriad your going to be sued for alimony woot
How come all the moneys Brains and good looks are in the soft south :P

[Sabre]

Money: Can't buy you love. ;)

Brains: We started the industrial revolution up here, can't be that dim!

Good Looks: Well, if horse-faces are what you're after, be my guest!!!

I'll stay up here. :)

Joe: There were about 9.5 gundeaths/100,000 people in 1998 in Vermont, compared to around 12/100,000 in texas and a similar figure in florida.

That's not too far off.

http://www.campaignadvantage.com/sites/agsfoundation/asp/gundeaths.asp?state=vermont


"Each year, gun violence takes the lives of nearly 30,000 Americans.
In 1999, 57 of those killed were from Vermont. *CDC 2002/2001

The cost in human lives of guns in 1999 nationally, 1998 in Vermont:

Firearm Suicides - 16,418 deaths nationally, 57 in Vermont.
Firearm Homicides - 10,417* deaths nationally, 4 in Vermont. (National statistic includes legal intervention deaths.)

Unintentional Firearm Deaths – 808 deaths nationally, 2 in Vermont. *CDC 2002/2001/2000"

http://www.comotionmakers.org/factsheets/template.cfm?ID=46

57 is nowhere near the 3,500 in California, but the populations are very different too.

[California Joe]

Most of the killings are during deer season and the natives and their cows are getting shot by flatlanders. ;)

[martinexsquaddie]

heard some horror stories about US hunters sound even worse than italian hunters :roll: