Cavalery charges in WWII

[Maciek]

Again there was controversy about Polish cavalry in 1939 and German tanks.

It was in 19-9-1939. A big group of 14 regiment Jazłowieckich lancers and a smoll unit from 9 regiment Małopolskich lancers near Wólka Węglowa was ordered to break down to Warsaw.

Italian war-correspondent, Mario Appelius, being the observer of charge described her in following way:" Suddenly heroic team of cavalrymen's in strength about a couple of hundred horses appeared in gallop from overgrown. They atacked having in centre unrolled flag...[according to report of corporal. Maziarskiego they were only staffs of flag put out from case bands the Virtuti Militari cross] All the German machine-guns calmed down and only cannons shot. Their fire created firewall on space 300 metres before German lines. Polish cavalrymen charge whole speed like on mediaeval paintings! Commander on front gallopped with upraised sabre.You could see the distance diminished among Polish cavalrymen's group and wall of German fire.It was madness continue with this charge on meeting of death. And however the Polish passed".

105 KIA, 100 WIA in this charge .
that is 20% of the group
cavalerymen that has been captured and admit to take part in the charge (the Gremans make promises that they will be able to go home) were murdered

Are some of you intrested in other cavalery charges in 1939

I'm sorry for my english, I will get better I promes

[Rantanplan]

SZARZA!!!!!!! woot


http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Szarza_ulanow.jpg

[Vlad]

I know Russian military used cavalry charges in the begining of WWII, but abandoned the practice rather shortly (at least for the most part), due to heavy human and horse casaulties. However, recon and supply units contunied to use horses till the end of the war.

[He219]

You may have already seen this one from 'Today's pic's'

http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/news.lycos.com/news/ot_getImage.asp?op=img&id=419022
A soldier on horseback jumps over other soldiers during a cavalry show in Warsaw Saturday Sept.13, 2003. (AP Photo/Alik Keplicz)

[GazB]

"I know Russian military used cavalry charges in the begining of WWII, but abandoned the practice rather shortly (at least for the most part), due to heavy human and horse casaulties."

The vast majority of transport vehicles used by both germany and the soviet union were horses despite plenty of lendlease trucks for the Soviets and the supposed mechanisation of the German forces.

The Soviet forces were already mechanised in the sense that they had more tanks than the rest of the world put together... over 20,000. They didn't have troop carriers... the soldiers walked or sat on tanks. Trucks were rare. Most of the cavalry units were used in the enemies rear against supply and communications and headquarters units. They were and continued to be later in the war very effective in such engagements as the targets were light and the speed of a horse over the softest earth made such attacks formidible. Futile frontal attacks of the sort used during WWI by all western sides were used initially, but the cost in man power forced changes. These were rarely mounted charges, but PBI (poor bloody infantry) attacks.

Another user of horses was artillery units. A truck needed fuel to work, while a horse could get by on grass, which was abundant at any roadside. In dire situations like the sieges of Leningrad and Stalingrad they were a doubly valuable commodity... you can't eat a truck when it fails from exhaustion

[Maciek]

I know Russian military used cavalry charges in the begining of WWII, but abandoned the practice rather shortly (at least for the most part), due to heavy human and horse casaulties. However, recon and supply units contunied to use horses till the end of the war.

Soviet (and Polish People Army) used cavalery to 1945. Usualy cavalery were used with tanks in persuit.

In the operation to surround 6 Army in Stalingrad Soviet used 3 armoured corps, 2 cavalery corps and 40 infantry divisions.

BTW Germans in offensive in Poland used cavalery too.

[Rantanplan]

Here is a nice article about a Plolish Cavalry Charge during WW2:

http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/history4.shtml

http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/images/kawaler1.jpg

[Kitsune]

"A horse is a horse, of course, of course..."


;)

[perdurabo]

He219: We have some cavalery but it's only for decoration:) tradition is tradition:) moust of them are not military but hnthusiasts of cavalery
rantampan this painting looks like one of Kossak paintings is it Kossak?

[Rantanplan]

Jep, Wojciech Kossak.

[Herrmannek]

Perdurbao you are wrong :)

Whe have at least pancer cavalery & airborne cavalery. But horses they have are only mechanical :)

[California Joe]

The last US Cavalry charge on horseback was by B troop, 26th Cavalry Regiment (Philppine Scouts) supported by Stuart M3 tanks of the 194th Tank Battalion, California National Guard at Lingayen Gulf against the Japanese on December 26th, 1941

[Rantanplan]

Yeah, and the US still use Horses in Afghanistan woot

http://www.sftt.org/sof004.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2002/10/08-horseback-inside.jpg
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/Special_Forces-Afghanistan/e_sfa01.jpg
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/Special_Forces-Afghanistan/w45j6w46j.jpg

[grendel]

The last great cavalry charge in history

http://www.bluestarbase.org/images/4thlghthrs.gif


"The Australian Light Horse Commander, Chauvel, concocted a bold plan. Why not let his 800 horsemen charge the Turkish artillery? A cavalry charge across 6000 yards of open terrain straight into the face of the amassed Turkish guns. Some 4600 Turkish troops were already entrenced in anticipation of the attack - odds of six to one in their favor! Behind them were nests of machine guns with interlocking fields of fire and behind that artillery commanded by battle hardened German officers. The whole plan sounded like a recipe for disaster..."

http://www.generals.org/PDFDocuments/AU/AU~ARTICLE~CJacobs~NO%20DATE~Australian%20Light%20Horsemen.pdf


"Though many men and horses were to come crashing down within seconds after the photo was taken, the photo shows the three echelons of Light Horse lunging to the gallop with the three lines hurtling across the rock strewn plain, the Australians yelling wildly ---stockman yells, coo-ees, even laughter--- as they thunder towards the astonished Turkish trenches. Having no cavalry sabres the men can be seen gripping their bayonets to flash their sharpened blades in the coppery sunlight.

The gallop turns to a thundering full charge with men laying flat across their mounts necks. The horses, having smelled, water are at a full frantic gallop towards the wells ignoring the bullets whining past their ears. The first wave jumps the Turkish trenches with the terrified defenders stabbing upwards at the horses with their bayonets.

The Australians dismounted and launched themselves at the Turks in vicious hand to hand fighting joined by following waves. The Turks surrendered while a number of Lighthorsemen road into Beersheba just in time to stop the German commanding officer from blowing up the critical water supply, the seven wells of Abraham.

Incidentally this charge, resulting in the capture of Beersheba, made it possible for the creation of modern day Israel and Saudi Arabia because of the subsequent capture of Damascus and driving the Turks out after 600 years occupation..."

http://www.bluestarbase.org/anzacs1.htm

[Vlad]

Maciek, GazB, thanks for correcting me, you right about using horses as supply roles. From personal experience I know how most of the roads get in Russia in spring and fall. However, what I meant in my previous post, was widespread use of horses for front line duty.

[GazB]

There were some wasteful cavalry charges by the Soviets initially, but they had learned from the experience of Poland. In the same token they learned that their ideas of using cavalry tanks, where MG armed light tanks in small groups would work with large units of infantry was not the best tactic. After watching the invasion of western europe they realised the German way of massed light and medium tanks in armoured units was the correct use of armour. The changes required to both their units and their tactics and getting fully trained in those tactics were expected to take a year. They weren't given that year to make the changes as Germany invaded as they were reshaping their units.
I have read that cavalry units would hide in forests and mount lightning attacks... usually against the Nazis, but sometimes the cavalry were Ukranian nationalists that chose to help the nazis. After finding out how the Nazis were treating captured territory these units often just attacked both the communists and the Nazis.


A horse is a large target, but it can cover rough ground faster than any armoured vehicle. Mounted charges like at the end of Rambo III against APCs, Tanks, and even self propelled anti aircraft gun systems would mean absolute slaughter. Against rear units that are armed with pistols and SMGs and the odd rifle, but no MGs then they can be very effective... and they can get away very quickly... very important in an ambush.

"Soviet (and Polish People Army) used cavalery to 1945."

Sorry Maciek, didn't mean to suggest they stopped using cavalry. What they stopped doing was frontal cavalry charges on prepared enemy front positions

Despite being fully mechanised the Soviets used mounted troops in Afghanistan, and the MVD border patrol units in many areas used and continue to use mounted patrols too.

[Maciek]

Sorry Maciek, didn't mean to suggest they stopped using cavalry. What they stopped doing was frontal cavalry charges on prepared enemy front positions



No problem :hug:

BTW in Stalingrag Germans had 50000 horses, part of them from 1 Romanian cavalery division. I think that those horses played a big role in the siege. The siege would end earlyer if not those horses.

[GazB]

"The siege would end earlyer if not those horses."

Yes... you can't eat a truck!!!!!!!

[kenshiroIT]

On 23 Agust 1942 600 men of the regiment Savoia Cavalleria face in steppes of Isbuschenski very superior soviet forces, about 2400 Russians with artillery and mortar support.
The regiment Savoia Cavalleria, led by Col. Alessandro Bettoni, attacked in the morning of its 250th anniversary (it had been founded by Gian Michele Piossasco de' Rossi on 24 August 1692) shouting "Avanti Savoia!". The losses of the enemy were: 150 dead, 300 wounded, 500 prisoners (among them also the command of a battalion), 4 guns, 10 mortars, 50 machine-guns and hundreds of rifles. Savoia Cavalleria lost: 32 deads (3 officers), 52 wounded and 100 horses.

From my own sources, this Italian action took place with the use of sabres only and was an eye opener when I first came across it a few months back.
It was the last true large scale cavalry charge in history in the way it was completed in that the orders for "trot, gallop, charge!!" were used in the true sense as oppossed to more like a light horsemen or mounted riflemen.