Why aren't we at war with Palistinian terrorists?

[Zach R.]

I like to think I know alot about politics, but this is one thing I don't understand. Why aren't we at war with the Palistinian terrorists? I mean, it seems like the logical thing to do. Even if it was just a bunch of Marine, Delta, Devgru, SEAL and SF snipers scattered around the city, maybe if enough of them were killed, they'd give up. I know, it probably won't happen like that, but it would be nice. If we don't take care of these guys right now, it's gonna come back and bite us on the ass.

[a. enders]

........I think it's Peace in the Middle East..........

If we took a decisive stand in favor of Israel,we would undoubtedly be subject to more kooks like bin Laden blowing our **** up.Which is not to diminish or margenalize what Isrealis go through everyday,but....y'know....

Personally....They should make a giant pit,get a coupla knives and put the leaders of both countries in there.That should settle something,if only my semi-psychotic lust for blood on nightly news.

[mocking_loudly]

Life is more complex than the movies Zach R.

An overt commitment by American forces in Israel would undoubtedly be the biggest mistake in the world.

The increase in terrorism would be ten-fold and would further destabilise any chance at peace.

[FallenAngel]

I've thought the same thing. The sad truth is that if any western country went in there even APPEARING to aide the Israelis, a world of **** would come down on the whole region. Every muslim/arab extremist within a thousand miles would be involved. Casualties would likely be 100 times what it is now.

Also, If we're declaring war on countries who harbor terrorists, then Syria, Lebenon Egypt and Jordan should be numbers 2-5 on the list. (Saudi Arabia being #1)

Oh, and we don't have the rescources. 73& of the Army is deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan alone. ;)

[California Joe]

Life is more complex than the movies Zach R.



Take that back you mocking bastard.

[GLax]

lets not forget that Israel doest really need our help. they probably have the best military in the Middle East after all, including some top notch Special Forces units. and everybody is rite, we'd just make ourselves look like the 'Great Satan' that they claim we are...

[hood]

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/StayofExecution-X.gif


Yeah.. In all seriousness, it's probably because of the United States that the Israelis haven't done some military actions that they really wanted to.

[jdbjdb]

I would give Arafat one week to disarm the militants, if he doesn't, well then, time to send some terrorist on their way to collect their 72 virgins.

[Fargin]

How?

[Spine]

Wouldn't work. The entire situation has to change, or there will always be terrorism there.

[jdbjdb]

ahhh....hellfire missels from the American supplied AH-64 Longbow Apache gunships

[hood]

well, that might hurt the 500 children that he's surrounding himself with. my bet would be on the snipers that they've got in the 2 buildings that they setup observation points in, days before. Another Israeli foreign minister will say that they're going to move on deporting him, Arafat will come out on the balcony like the other day and everyone will cheer and that'll be the end of it. At what point do you say that an elected official is not working? Iraq's Saddam Hussein got a 100% vote in the election last year. What's it worth at this point?

[mocking_loudly]

Send in team Rainbow!....wait they don't exist.

[Ratamacue]

Hell, send in Tom Clancy himself, man.

[Saranof]

Most people seem to think "Arafat dead....duuuuuh...good...hoho...."
Wich tells you a bit about what they know about politics... :roll:
Killing Arafat won't help, but if you killade him, AND the entire Israeli government...weill, that would be a differtent story.

[StarvingStudent47]

One good reason that the United States isn't at war directly with Palestinian terrorists is because Israel doesn't WANT foreign troops fighting their battles for them. Anyway, more troops on the ground wouldn't change the situation there, and the US Army isn't more skilled at urban counter-terror than the IDF is.

Another reason is that another Arab oil boycott of the United States (like in the 1970s) would be absolutely disasterous for the domestic economy. It's sad to admit that something like that can drive policy decisions, but it can.

Even when it looked like Israel would be overrun during the Yom Kippur War, they did not ask for US combat troops. They asked for additional arms and ammunition from their allies, but never asked for another country to send troops to fight for them.

As for Yassir Arafat...never mind Tom Clancy, send in Spiderman. He'll handle him quickly, efficiently, and with no collateral damage.

[jdbjdb]

yeah more than likely killing arafat would cause a civil war, between the pa and militant groups, too bad you can't bulldoze the gaza strip into the sea, if there is going to be a Palistinian state in the future, what about Jerusalem?, they want jerusalem to be their capital, and that will never happen, i believe in a unified jewish jerusalem

[jdbjdb]

How about giving guns and some C4 to the orthodox jews, and let get rid of that ugly gold dome and retake the temple mount?

[mocking_loudly]

i believe in a unified jewish jerusalem

I believe in Santa and all you bastards can’t convince me otherwise!.

[96B]

Israel can definately fend for themselves, after all they have been kicking terrorist ass much longer than we have and they have proved that they do not need our direct military help time and time again. Most of our support toward them would be the military hardware we sell them and the intelligence we share.

As to America overtly sending in conventional troops to help Israel, like I said they dont need the help but it is true that it would cause a ****storm of martyrs and suicide bombers.

Statistically speaking, it would be ill advised to send in large ammounts of US troops into Israel because of the consequences. Morally speaking, if the day came that Israel needed it, it is partially our responsibility to help protect them. You have to find common ground with doing what is "right" and the consequences that could follow, not simply saying that many people will die as a result and decide against it.

[ShotOver]

Well, don't flame the **** out of me. But the Palistinians are frredom fighters who are trying to get the Isrealies out of their homeland.

I'm not saying what they are doing is right, blowing up cafes and buses is not good.
But i am a muslim, so i've taken my side.

[mocking_loudly]

Dude, their going to flame you. rofl ;)

[ShotOver]

Oh well, i've had enough of Pro-Isreali crap.
:roll:

[mocking_loudly]

I'm just going to set up the deck chair and get some beers ready.

In approx two hours time I expect no less then 50 odd replies.

PT you drink VB right?. :lol:

[ShotOver]

Yeah man, a bit of a drink now and then never hurts :)

[ArmoredDov_D9]

State me the verse in the Qoran that allows you to blow yourself onto women and children in a bus. As a muslim you should be ashame of Palestinian and Al-Qaeda. Because of them whenever someone says "Islam" people think about about a blood-thirsty nutcase who blow themself onto innocet civilians.

[ShotOver]

Yeah, i was in class today and the teacher said "Muslim" and about 5 people said "What?, those people that blow themselves up?"

I think it is horrible what they are doing to the Isreali's, but on the other hand... Isreali's should not be in Palestine.

What they are planning to do to Yasser Arafat is simply stupid, it will cause the most bloodshed Isreal has ever seen, you don't just take out a leader of a country without getting some back.

[ArmoredDov_D9]

When yoy say "Palestine" you are relating to the West Bank and Gaza strip on the 67-borders, right?

[mocking_loudly]

And the war begins!.

While you chaps are fighting it out, I'm going to be doing the safety dance.

dodododododododo!.

You can dance if you want to!....etc etc

[ShotOver]

I ment the "Palestine" is in the regions the IDF has taken over and occupied.

[hood]

you don't just take out a leader of a country without getting some back.

The Israeli's have been 'getting some back' for more than 30 years. An all out war against Israel is what they would really like because it's a lot easier to fight than this little stuff here and there. Just look at Iraq. 21 days before we fomally announced that the downtown Baghdad McDonald's was now honoring competitors coupons, but 5 months later we're still getting picked off, same as the Israelis. This picking off of people on both sides can't continue. The problem is that Arafat really doesn't care if it goes on for centuries. That's his only care in life, to be the figure head and most important guy at any cost. If all of this were to be resolved, he'd be gone. All he knows is fighting. He's literally never done anything else in his life. Even after being given billions in funds from other countries, he still has the terrorist group Hamas supplying food and schooling to children. Why isn't HE taking care of those children? Why do thugs have to do it? Why isn't HE funneling those billions into redoing the roads, building new schools, beefing up the security forces, bringing companies in to invest in new businesses so the Palestinians don't have to rely on Israel for work? All he's done is war. If the Palestinians had used that money for positive and peaceful things, they'd be too busy making a good living to make war.

[Bootneck]

Well said Hood.

[Sirpad]

I wish to remind one interesting and mind-numbing fact for everybody - peace with palestinians is not only possible - we were actually there! back in the days after oslo agreement was signed (93-96), the pallestinians have seen the best time ever:
-commerce, tourism, and finance flourished.
-after the march-april 96 bombings, 800 hamas and IJ terrorists were jailed - practically shutting down those organizations' activity for several months.
-pal/israely relationships were at its best: israelys were touring the west bank and staying in hotels on gaza's beautifull beach, buying food and furniture in west bank towns, and gambling in jericho's famous casino.

All that brings us to onr conclusion: if we get rid of arafat and sharon, life in israel and palestine will be hell of a lot better!

[He219]

Go Sirpad! Alas, somebody agrees with me......


woot

[S'13]

Sharon is a democraticly elected leader and the only way to take him out of office is by the same way he was put there in the first place. Sharons Likud party got 39 mandates (which equal 39 seats in parliament) in the last elections. I can't see anyone who could do a better job then him. So I am quite skeptical about any possibility he will be taken down in the near future...

[A$$MAN]

Israeli intelligence has stated that a portion of Iraqi WMD has been shipped out of Iraq and into the Lebannon--specifically the Beka'a Valley. The Beka'a Valley is the riveria for Islamic Fundamentalism--the CP or satellite offices for most terrorist groups, such as Hamas, and JI.
By implicating the Beka'a, Israel hopes to shift the US focus on the terrorists next door.
We'll see if, we, the US will operate in Lebannon again.

[hood]

Well, and the reason he's there is because the people felt that Barak wasn't cracking down hard enough on Arafat's people.

[hendrix33]

Israel can definately fend for themselves, after all they have been kicking terrorist ass much longer than we have and they have proved that they do not need our direct military help time and time again. Most of our support toward them would be the military hardware we sell them and the intelligence we share.


Well said, and allow me to elaborate: Israel does not have an operational problem to execute a massive attack on the terrorist factories, as was demonstrated in April '01, which brought a term of relative quietness.

IDF has a lot of experience handling terror, and also more than enough SF units that specialize in counter-terrorism. So what's stopping Israel?

Reason A
Lack of international support which adds to the internal complicated political situation. Countries such as France are openly taking the palestinian point of view. The UN enters that list as well with the leadership of many arab nations inside it.
To conclude: Israel cannot fully ignore international pressure. After operation 'Defensive Shield' Germany witheld valuable componments for the construction of the Merkava tank. This is only one example.

Reason B
The second reason is more frustrating. Military action cannot stand by itself - it has to be followed by a dialouge to peace, and there's no partner for than on the other side, unfortunately. The reason for the quietness achieved by operation 'Defensive Shield' has ended after some period, was becuae lacking the dialouge resulting the creation of a palstine state - terror will rise again. As long as nobody on the PA side is willing to try and fight terrorism, there cannot be a dialouge for a state. It's a damn trap, sadly - and Israel can't do much to escape it.

[He219]

Well, and the reason he's there is because the people felt that Barak wasn't cracking down hard enough on Arafat's people.

Did he not campaign on a platfrom of 'Security for Israel'? Israel seems less safe today with stoked tensions than during Barak's tenure.

Building all the 'Separation Fences' won't help Israel's security in a culture of repression, militancy and distrust. That goes both ways. Sharon's rightwing militant policies have only provoked Arab sentiment, starting with his visit to the Temple Mount shortly before becomming elected and ending with his cabinet's decision to liquidate the primary political fugurehead of Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation.

S-13, I certainly am not advocating political assasination like Vice Prime Minister Ehud Olmert did. Sirpad and I are merely indicating the obvious; moderation of opposing viewpoints in order to be able to even consider normalization of enflamed sentiments.

[jdbjdb]

Palistinians are frredom fighters who are trying to get the Isrealies out of their homeland.


You don't hear this enough but, its not the Palistinians land

[Tom.G]

What the Hell is he talking about?

[StarvingStudent47]

But i am a muslim, so i've taken my side.

Now hold up a second. What do you mean by this? I'm part Irish, but that doesn't mean I condone the brutal terrorism of the IRA. I'm part German, but that doesn't mean I condone the horrors of the Third Reich. Your statement seems to be giving a blank check of approval to any action done in the name of your religion. Is that really something you believe?

[Tom.G]

Starving Student47, what side are you on?

[mocking_loudly]

I'm on Batman's side.

[phinfan]

The main reason is we have already invested money to Israel for military equipment and technology. In return they should be able to handle their own against a terrorist neighbor while we take on the terrorist in the rest of the world. :)

[Tom.G]

I'm on Batman's side.

You're not funny dude.

[phinfan]

Since the beginning of time war has shaped are borders and decided whose land it is. Do the brits tell us to get out of "their" land, do the American Indians? No they don't they realize the war is lost and move on with peaceful life, they don't keep blowing innocent people up!
So take that Palestine if you can't throw Israel out of your country move on, you lost the "war" blowing up children isn't going to work. Maybe some peaceful negotiations might help shape your country. The route your taking I hope they take the whole thing!

[hood]

He's right dude, Batman's a freak.. He's got tons of money and ends up spending way too much time by himself... oh.. wait.. just like Arafat... nevermind.

[hood]

Yes, but the factor that wasn't present in the American Revolution, and the white man vs. Indian battles, was Islam. I personally don't know enough about Islam to tell you what's in the Koran or if it actually says this, but what I DO know is that these people believe that if they kill themselves and/or lots of their enemies, they will be rewarded in the afterlife. When you're living in a refugee camp where conditions are horrible, and outside countries are giving you tons of money, but only if you use it for war, why on Earth would you pass that kind of an opportunity up? If you take away all the moral and social consequences of murdering people and say that you'll actually be rewarded for it, you don't think a lot of people would suddenly lose their inhibitions? It's called brainwashing from an early age.. plain and simple.

[phinfan]

If you take away all the moral and social consequences of murdering people and say that you'll actually be rewarded for it, you don't think a lot of people would suddenly lose their inhibitions? It's called brainwashing from an early age.. plain and simple.

If they really believe with murder comes reward then I really worry about them as a race, and maybe we are better off without them.[/quote]

[ShotOver]

*yawn* You people are soooo easily stirred up.

I could not give a rats ass about that part of the world. Never been there, never gonna go there.

:|

[ArmoredDov_D9]

He's right dude, Batman's a freak.. He's got tons of money and ends up spending way too much time by himself... oh.. wait.. just like Arafat... nevermind.

The difference is that Batman sends killer from the streets into prison. Arafat do just the opposite: he sends killer from prison into the streets.

[cut]

*yawn* You people are soooo easily stirred up.

I could not give a rats ass about that part of the world. Never been there, never gonna go there.

:|

... you gave in to easily there, I was rooting for you till then..

do you think israelis have less of a right to live in palestine than palestinians

[Spine]

*yawn* You people are soooo easily stirred up.

I could not give a rats ass about that part of the world. Never been there, never gonna go there.

:|

It takes some effort, but I'm working towards having that opinion.

It's like two people yelling 'shut up!!' at each other in an endless loop.

[Seiyuuki]

i believe in a unified jewish jerusalem

I believe in Santa and all you bastards can’t convince me otherwise!.

I believe in Santa too.

[mocking_loudly]

You're not funny dude.


That's a horrible lie! my mom thinks I’m hilarious.

[Luxembourger]

IT s sad that Israel is situated in that region where it is next to non-democratic states where dictators are ruling countries or where terrorists become leaders and win elections to 100% . Any western country would have the same problem with Palestinians than the Israelis do . Why ? I just bought a satelite dish to get access to some arab channels , some are moderate, I don t understand arabic but I see the images ,. I watched some arab chanells and the images theyshow in their commercials or breaks are a bit distrubing to me as if the hate is not only directed towards ISrael but to the Western world . It seems that the Arab world wants to blame us Christians and Jews for everything . I think tha s a bit unfair . I am not anti arab or anti muslim,,but I think that the arab world has a big problem with iself right now. Young Arabs seeking to become western are beaten in Arab countries by cleric police groups who don t want their youth to become too western ,
I think religion is posion for the Arab world . They should become morem oderate and stop blaming us for everything. They can build all over europe their mosques as we are tolerant towards them , But if you knew what **** and anti-west propaganda they are diffusing in their mosuqes that hurts me a lot . Build one church in an arab country and it will be blown up. EVerybody is welocme in Europe of any religion or race ..but please stick to the rules of that country you are living now and don t try to convert other people to another rleligion by force. YOu may build your mosques in euroepan countries everywhere ,,yes we respect your religion but we prefer you pratice your reigion in a peaceful way and not brainwash people to hate Europeans Americans Israleis.

[warchild1/27scout]

i hate to give away my true convictions but i am a pro-bush conservative mainly because i kind of want my family to survive the war on terror and it would be true terror to see a anti-war liberal democrat as president. having said that bush better get his **** together and follow the bush doctrine and either let isreal kill arafat and smash the palistinian terror groups or let us do it. there will not be peace while arafat is there.

[usa320]

if only my semi-psychotic lust for blood on nightly news.

LMAO rofl

anywho, i think we should kill of arafat...again and again he ends up standing in the way of reform and movement to disarm terrorists.