world security council seats

[Wodan]

Germany, Brazil, Japan and India launch a joint bid for permanent seats on the UN Security Council

Joint Brazilian-German-Indian-Japanese Statement
New York, Sept. 21, 2004

1. In order for the international community to effectively address the various threats and challenges that it presently faces, it is important to reform the United Nations as a whole.

2. The General Assembly must be revitalized, as it represents the general will of all Member States. We must also enhance the efficiency of the UN agencies and organs in the social and economic fields in order to effectively address urgent challenges.

3. The Security Council must reflect the realities of the international community in the 21st century. It must be representative, legitimate and effective. It is essential that the Security Council includes, on a permanent basis, countries that have the will and the capacity to take on major responsibilities with regard to the maintenance of international peace and security. There also has been a nearly four-fold increase in the membership of the United Nations since its inception in 1945, including a sharp increase in the number of developing countries. The Security Council, therefore, must be expanded in both the permanent and non-permanent categories, including developing and developed countries as new permanent members.

4. Brazil, Germany, India and Japan, based on the firmly shared recognition that they are legitimate candidates for permanent membership in an expanded Security Council, support each other’s candidature. Africa must also be represented in the permanent membership of the Security Council. We will work together with other like-minded Member States towards realizing meaningful reform of the United Nations, including that of the Security Council.

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/images/aussenp/un_040921.jpg

source: http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/aussenpolitik/vn/vereinte_nationen/d_im_sicherheitsrat/vier_html

[Flagg]

I don't disagree with India making a play for a Permanent Security Council seat...at some stage it will become a regional superpower.

I find it ironic that Germany and Japan are seeking seats as those nations are responsible for the creation of the UN in the first place.....I know it's been nearly 60 years, but.....hey they don't even have nukes ;)

And Brazil.......hmmmm.....probably justified in having a South American permanent presence.

But at the end of the day....the more permanent seats you have will result in a decision making process that becomes more fragmented and more difficult to accomplish ANYTHING...it will make the UN even more powerless than it is now....leadership by a larger group consensus is a poor command structure when it comes to making the hard choices......just my .02 c

[Wodan]

I find it ironic that Germany and Japan are seeking seats as those nations are responsible for the creation of the UN in the first place.....I know it's been nearly 60 years, but.....hey they don't even have nukes ;)

not true..

Germany has a tornado nuke bomber staff, with nukes donated by the usa

Germany has long range rockets, and also nukes donated by the usa or borrowed by the usa

Germany has the know how to build nukes byself without of problems...

and Japan... could get some from us ;)

[Wodan]

But at the end of the day....the more permanent seats you have will result in a decision making process that becomes more fragmented and more difficult to accomplish ANYTHING...it will make the UN even more powerless than it is now....leadership by a larger group consensus is a poor command structure when it comes to making the hard choices......just my .02 c

but its more fair-minded

[Haiw]

IIRC we have some US nukes laying around as well...

[Flagg]

not true..

Germany has a tornado nuke bomber staff, with nukes donated by the usa

Germany has long range rockets, and also nukes donated by the usa or borrowed by the usa

Germany has the know how to build nukes byself without of problems...

and Japan... could get some from us ;)

The "Original Gangsta" Axis of Evil is back! ;)


but its more fair-minded

I don't disagree with you.....a strong case could be made by all 4 nations on acquiring a permanent security council seat.

I think it likely China could oppose India & Japan, Russia could oppose Germany, and the US could oppose Brazil....we'll have to wait and see for sure.

But getting back to your point fair-minded does NOT equal effective.

Many of the problems pointed out by UN critics would be MAGNIFIED by further expansion of the Security Council and it's effectiveness would be reduced........unless someone could persuade me the benefits(only one I see) outweigh the detriments(of which there are MANY) I think it's a bad idea.

[TheKiwi]

I've suggested before that they could become permanent members, but without the Veto rights of the original five. They're all major players with something to offer the UNSC.

Then have the remaining seats on the SC filled on a rotating basis among ALL nations. None of the current lobbying for a seat that goes on. Yes, you will have places like Syria on the SC from time to time, but you will also get countries that never could lobby well enough, or be acceptable otherwise (like Israel :D ).

[Wodan]

I've suggested before that they could become permanent members, but without the Veto rights of the original five. They're all major players with something to offer the UNSC.

veto right for every member by self shouldnt exist,
its a relict of cold war time, it would be better, if veto only can be make by three members together, 30% must do a veto...

(30% if a african representant comes also into world security council)