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View Full Version : Democrats vs. Republicans in the US Military: The Truth!



obd
10-22-2004, 10:53 PM
The dirty little truth Republicans dont want America to notice. Anybody here see the pattern? For all thier blustering patriotism and warmongering almost NONE of them actually served our nation in the US military. Perhaps that is why they are all to ready to send young men to die in foreign wars. They have no idea what that actually means. Compare Republican service record in he military to Democrat service and it becomes all to clear what kind of people make up the Republican party: blustering moral cowards and bigots. (John McCain being the only one with real honor and integrity which is why he is the black sheep of the party)


Republicans:

* **** Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage. Investigated by the FBI for treason as head of Haliburton for secret deals with Libya and Iran, both terrorist enemies of the United States of America while those nations were under US sanctions for direct involvement in the deaths of US military personel and civilians. Put profit over patriotic duty to his country.

* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.

* Tom Delay: did not serve.

* Roy Blunt: did not serve.

* Bill Frist: did not serve.

* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.

* Rick Santorum: did not serve.

* Trent Lott: did not serve.

* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.

* Jeb Bush: did not serve.

* Karl Rove: did not serve.

* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max
Cleland's patriotism.

* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.

* Vin Weber: did not serve.

* Richard Perle: did not serve.

* Douglas Feith: did not serve.

* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.

* Richard Shelby: did not serve.

* Jon Kyl: did not serve.

* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.

* Christopher Cox: did not serve.

* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.

* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.

* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S.
Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty

* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role

making movies.

* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.

* Phil Gramm: did not serve.

* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart
and Distinguished Flying Cross.

* John M. McHugh: did not serve.

* JC Watts: did not serve.

* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued

in NFL for 8 years.

* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.

* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.

* George Pataki: did not serve.

* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.

* John Engler: did not serve.

* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.

* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.


Pundits &Preachers

* Sean Hannity: did not serve.

* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')

* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.

* Michael Savage: did not serve.

* George Will: did not serve.

* Chris Matthews: did not serve.

* Paul Gigot: did not serve.

* Bill Bennett: did not serve.

* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.

* John Wayne: did not serve.

* Bill Kristol: did not serve.

* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.

* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.

* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.

* Ralph Reed: did not serve.

* Michael Medved: did not serve.

* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.

* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot

back.)




Democrats:

* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.

* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.

* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.

* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.

* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.

* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.

* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,
Purple Hearts.

* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.

* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &Bronze Star,

Vietnam.

* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.

* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.

* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.

* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven

campaign ribbons.

* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze

Stars, and Soldier's Medal.

* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star

and Legion of Merit.

* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.

* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
Star with Combat V.

* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.

* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57

* Chuck Robb: Vietnam

* Howell Heflin: Silver Star

* George McGovern: Silver Star &DFC during WWII.

* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but

received #311.

* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.

* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953

* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18

Clusters.

* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark Sman
10-22-2004, 11:08 PM
Hmm, seems like we left out a few Republicans that did serve. Can't imagine any that would spring IMMEDIATELY to mind though.

Anyone care to knock this softball into orbit.

Roktiken
10-22-2004, 11:11 PM
Hmm, seems like we left out a few Republicans that did serve. Can't imagine any that would spring IMMEDIATELY to mind though.

Anyone care to knock this softball into orbit.

The point of the post however is that the number of Democratic politicians outnumber the number of Republican politicians who served in the US armed forces by far.

Mark Sman
10-22-2004, 11:15 PM
http://www.navyleague.org/legislative_affairs/HouseVets108.pdf

cut
10-22-2004, 11:17 PM
bah, there is no truth, only different versions of it

fred_engles
10-22-2004, 11:17 PM
Chuck Hagel (R-NE) served (Broze Star), as did [obviously] Colin Powell. Bob Dole also comes to mind, but he's not in politics any more.

Roktiken
10-22-2004, 11:19 PM
Wow so that's a whole 10 republicans who served against the very large majority of the democrats on the list provided.

Mark Sman
10-22-2004, 11:25 PM
See the list I provided. Seems like they left out a hell of alot of Republican combat veterans. Thats just the House, I'll get the Senate later. No time at the moment.

obd
10-22-2004, 11:33 PM
The list was more focused on the current neo-conservative block that has hijacked the traditions of the old Republican party. The old honroable republicans who have stood by as thier party was ransacked and destroyed by Bush Jr. and his necons are some of the only honorable Republicans left.

Compare that with current Democratic leaders and it becomes obvious: The current Republican power base are nothing but blind moral cowards who shirked their military duty, and in some cases committed treason agaisnt the United States and its people. Maybe thats why they are such warmongers: they never actually served in war so they have no idea what its like.

obd
10-22-2004, 11:34 PM
There is simply no denying that the VAST VAST majority of what can be called the current Neo conservative Republican party leadership are cowards and traitors who talk the talk but never walked the walk.

Virus
10-22-2004, 11:41 PM
so because they didnt serve in the Armed Forces, that means they arent as good as the democrats?



Some people take propaganda just to far....and obd, did you serve in the military? I respect anyone who does, because they are willing to sacrifice their life, for the safety of the U.S.A., even if they are democrats that I dont agree with. But a LOT of people got out of serving in the military and getting out of Vietnam. But does that make them a coward? A traitor? Although lieing to get out of it is bad, I still dont think it makes them cowards..

Mark Sman
10-22-2004, 11:43 PM
What a load of crap. You publish BS numbers, get slapped down, and now want to say that is a different Republican party.

Later tonight, when I have time, I'm going to get the real numbers for service in the House and Senate. Maybe the Dems will have an advantage over the GOP. Dunno, never added it up.

But your idiotic insult has caused me to want to know. Back in a few hours.

obd
10-22-2004, 11:43 PM
I make a distinction between Neo-cons and the Republican party I used to love and admire. Neo-Cons have completely hijacked the party and its old values and believe me people, if Bush loses there will be civil war in the Republican party and I can only hope that the true Republicans take back the party. If Bush wins, then the Neocons will have completely thier hostile takeover and you will see lots of Republicans leaving the party. Many are already discussing it...........For the sake of the nation and true Republican values I'm voting for Kerry.

obd
10-22-2004, 11:47 PM
MARK, its a simple fact. Democrats have a far far higher rate of service. Just make sure you dont do something like bring up military records of Republicans from 100 years ago. Lets keep it current please. I already listed MOST of the Republican leadership, including the president and vice president as well as almost all of the leading Republican comentators so that should be all you need............

Mark Sman
10-22-2004, 11:52 PM
I'm only going to do current members of the House and the Senate. That OK with you?

Old school doesn't count, and Democrats have a higher rate of service you say? Any current/recent US military care to comment on that?

Oh, reminds me, for flavor maybe I'll throw some Democratic commentators on the barbie.

SeanAshi
10-23-2004, 12:29 AM
I'm like most Americans and will be damm happy when this election passes...so everyone will shut the hell up...I voted the other day for my fellow Jew-loving neo-con Ivy League graduate dumb red neck from Texas, Bush and Cheney :hug:

obd
10-23-2004, 12:35 AM
First off, it would be nearly impossible to say "Democrats or Republicans have a higher rate of service" because politcal feelings change over time. Example: A young high school drop out 18 year old private votes Republican while in the service but after maturing and getting older coted Democrat or vica versa of course..............

My point was Democractic leaders have a far far higher rate of service than Republican leaders........

And why arnt Republicans all up in arms that the vice president **** Cheney was at one time under investigation by the FBI b/c for treason to the United States of America for doing buisness, while head of Haliburton, against trade sanctions with terrorist states Libya and Iran???? I mean, the vice president is a TRAITOR. He put profit over patriotism and did biusness with those in the buisness of killing Americans. This is during the same time period as Libya's bombings of several civilian airliners and the Iranian involvement in the Khobar Towers bombing that killed over 200 Marines and CHENEY SLEPT IN BED WITH THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!! TRAITOR!!!!!! COWARD!!! SCUM!!!!!!

Rakki
10-23-2004, 12:43 AM
Considering the fact that an overwhelming majority of American soldiers are Republican (seen those surveys recently?), it's probably FAR more likely that the majority of Republicans found better things to do than try get into the political system and be absolute ****s.

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 12:46 AM
Well, this wasn't very hard to look up at all. Too bad the ASSHAT that wrote the original list didn't take the time. Yes Asshat.


Military Service14
There are 154 Members of the 108th Congress who have had some form of military
service, some 14 fewer than in the 107th Congress. The House has 118 veterans: 70
Republicans and 48 Democrats, including one woman, who is a Republican. In the
Senate, 35 Members are veterans: 19 Republicans and 16 Democrats. They have served
in World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, and Kosovo, and during
times of peace, as well as in the Reserves and the National Guard. One Senator is a
former Secretary of the Navy. There has been a steady decline in the number of Members
who have served in the military, which may be attributed in part to the end of the
Selective Service System draft in 1973.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RS21379.pdf

*edit* There was a secondary source link, which I forgot to include
14 Some information here is from the Military Officers Association of Americans Office
[http://www.moaa.org/Legislative/Handbook/FactSheets/LegisTips/legislative_tips_5.asp],
visited June 29, 2004.

PS*edit* If I get drunk enough tonight, I'll come back and toast some democratic commentators. Anyone here need further proof of just how craptastic the original list is?

obd
10-23-2004, 01:39 AM
Dont forget to mention the traitor Cheney who put profit over patiotism and sold out our troops by doing back door buisness deals with terrorist rogue states Libya and Iran while they were in the process of killing American soldiers and civilians!!!! Dont forget that now!

obd
10-23-2004, 01:44 AM
Yes marc, but notice the original list includes most of the neoconservative leaders: The current leadership in the Republican Party as in Bush Administration.

That was the focus. Almost NONE of them served thier nation. All of them are moral cowards. Its not the numbers on the list that matter most. What really gets you is the names. The very people at the height of power in the Republican Party. Almost NONE of them have served.

The Bush administration, as in the highest levels of the party currently, ir rife with traitors and moral cowards............just look at the list. Its speaks volumns.

SeanAshi
10-23-2004, 01:53 AM
And after all that obd why isn't Kerry running away with this election? It's them damn pesky zionist who are behind it jibba jabb

obd
10-23-2004, 02:08 AM
haha, nice one. I support the state of Israel's right to exist as much as the next guy and in all reality more American Jews suppory Kerry than Bush.......so its kinda beside the point.

I mean, Bush is a man that has somewhere around 50% of the American support and about 10% of the worlds support. 50% of his nation is against him and 90% of the world thinks Bush is the next Hitler.........history will be his judge but I find that to be very telling indeed.

Over 50% of Iraqi's feel thier nation is going down not a path to freedom but a path worse than secular doctatorship: civil war and theocracy. That is the Iraq Bush has created. A terror haven and a failed state. Infinately worse and more dangerous to America's security than Saddam Hussein ever was...........

Somehow I dont think Bush will be calling himself "the great uniter" any time soon...........

10-23-2004, 02:27 AM
democrats are owning the republicans on this issue rofl

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 03:26 AM
Oops, left out a few cabinet members

Colin Powell US Army
35 years service
* Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster
* Bronze Star Medal
* Purple Heart
* Vietnam Service Medal with one silver service star
* Combat Infantryman Badge
* Ranger Tab
* Air Assault Badge
* Parachutist Badge
* Vietnam Campaign Medal

Donald Rumsfeld US Navy
Attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships
United States Navy active duty(1954-57)as a Naval aviator.
Naval reserves 1957-1975
Standby Reserve 1975 to 1989 when he first becam SECDEF.
Not one of my favorite people, but there you have it.

Norman Mineta US Army, Secretary of Transportation
Mineta was born in San Jose, California. During World War II he was detained in an internment camp near Cody, Wyoming, along with hundreds of other Japanese Americans.
1953 joined US Army, don't know his exit date. Probably one term.
Served as an intelligence officer in Japan and Korea

Anthony Principi, Secretary of Veteran Affairs
1967 graduate of the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland, and first saw active duty aboard the destroyer USS Joseph P. Kennedy. He later commanded a River Patrol Unit in Vietnam's Mekong Delta.
Bronze Star

Tom Ridge, Homeland Security
U.S. Army
Infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star for Valor, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry and the Combat Infantry Badge. A ruptured appendix cut short his tour and he returned home in 1970.

So what do we have.

More Republican vets in the House and the Senate. More Republican vets in the house and the Senate by percentage.
3 combat vets of Vietnam serving on the cabinet.

Shall we keep playing?

What was the term you used? "Moral cowards" Nice.

M1A2U2
10-23-2004, 04:48 AM
Damn Mark Sman. You pwned. This thread is finished and the Dems are officially wrong. I would like a response form the dems.

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 04:55 AM
More Republicans that didn't make that list. Note, these are only combat veterans currently serving in the House of Representatives as Republicans.

Randy "Duke" Cunningham, Representative 50th Congressional District
In 1966, at the age of 25, Cunningham joined the U.S. Navy and became one of the most highly decorated pilots in the Vietnam War. As the first fighter ace of the war, Cunningham was nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations.
Duke's experience in Vietnam and his background as an educator prepared him well to train fighter pilots at the Navy Fighter Weapons School -- the famed "Top Gun" program at Miramar Naval Air Station. As Commanding Officer of the elite Navy Adversary Squadron, Cunningham flew Russian tactics and formations against America's best combat fighter pilots.
Retired from the Navy in 1987. 3 aerial kills.

Rodney Frelinghuysen, representative 11th Congressional District
US Army
U.S. Army. Following basic training at Fort Dix, he served with the 93rd Engineer Battalion (Const.) in the Mekong Delta of Vietnam.

Jim Gibbons, 2nd Congressional District
Unites States Air Force from 1967 to 1971, joined the Nevada Air Guard in 1975, and served as the group's Vice Commander from 1990 through 1996. He was awarded the Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with Two Oak Leaf Clusters, Aerial Achievement Medal and Air Force Commendation Medal with One Oak Leaf Cluster for his combat service during the Vietnam War and Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

Wayne T. Gilchrest, 1st Congressional District
Sergeant, United States Marine Corps, Vietnam, 1964-1968.
Platoon leader, he was wounded in the chest. He received the Purple Heart, Bronze Star, and Navy Commendation Medal.

Duncan Hunter, 52nd Congressional District
Lieutenent, United States Army, 1969-1971
Served in combat in Vietnam. Served with the 173rd Airborne Brigade and the 75th Rangers Regiment.

Henry Hyde,6th Congressional District
Enlisted in the US Navy in 1942 and was commissioned as an Ensign in 1944. He served in the Pacific Theater of Operations during WWII and retired at the rank of Commander from the Naval Reserves in 1968.
Officer in Charge of LCT 1148 New Guinea and the Phillipines.

Sam Johnson, 3rd Congressional District
U.S. Air Force, 29 years
Served as director of the Air Force Fighter Weapons School and flew with the Air Force Thunderbirds precision flying demonstration team. In Korea he flew F-86s in 62 combat missions. In 1966, Johnson's F-4 was shot down over North Vietnam and he spent nearly seven years as a Prisoner of War. Three of those years were spent in solitary confinement. He was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legions of Merit, the Distinguished Flying Cross, one Bronze Star with Valor, two Purple Hearts, four Air Medals, and three Outstanding Unit Awards. He retired from the Air Force in 1979.

Mark Steven Kirk, 10th Congressional District
U.S. Navy named Kirk 'Intelligence Officer of the Year' in 1999 for his combat service in Kosovo. Kirk flew on missions over Iraq and continues to serve one weekend a month in the Pentagon. He is the only member of Congress to serve in Operation Iraqi Freedom and was an air crewman over Iraq during Operation Northern Watch.
to enforce the Northern No-fly Zone over Iraq. Representative Kirk still serves in the Naval Reserves at the rank of Lieutenant Commander.

John P. Kline, 2nd Congressional District
USMC 1969-1974
Kline served as a military aide to Presidents Carter and Reagan for three of his twenty-five years in the United States Marine Corps. Mr. Kline’s responsibilities during this period included carrying the nuclear “football” – the package containing launch codes for a nuclear attack – and advising the country’s senior leadership, including the President. Throughout a military career from which he retired at the rank of Colonel, Mr. Kline served as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, commanded all Marine aviation forces in Operation Restore Hope in Somalia, and served as Program Development Officer at Headquarters Marine Corps.

James T. 'Jim' Kolbe, 8th Congressional District
U.S. Navy Kolbe enrolled in the Navy ROTC as a freshman at Northwestern University in 1961. He was commissioned when he graduated in 1965 and, following a two-year leave of absence to pursue his MBA, served on active duty from July 1967 to December 1969. He volunteered to serve in Vietnam and was "in country" from December 1968 to the time of his discharge.
Served as operations officer in the same unit that Sen. Kerry was in in Vietnam.

John P. Murtha 12th Congressional District
USMC In 1974, John P. "Jack" Murtha became the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress.
Attended Washington and Jefferson College, but he left after a year to join the Marine Corps in 1952. After his active duty ended, he took command of a reserve unit in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, where he ran a small business, started a family, and attended the University of Pittsburgh on the GI Bill. He graduated from Pitt with a degree in economics and did graduate work in economics and political science at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. In 1966, Mr. Murtha volunteered to serve in Vietnam, where he was twice wounded; he received the Bronze Star with Combat "V," two Purple Hearts, and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. He was elected to Congress in 1974, and he still serves there today. He retired from the Marine Corps Reserves in 1990.

Steven E. 'Steve' Pearce, 2nd Congressional District
Air Force, 1971-76 Distinguished Flying Cross and Air Medal in Vietnam. Returning to the US, he was assigned to the Strategic Air Command at Blytheville Air Force Base, Arkansas. He separated honorably with the rank of Captain.

Joseph R. 'Joe' Pitts, 16th Congressional District
Captain 1963-1969
116 combat missions in his three tours of duty during the Vietnam War.


Edward L. 'Ed' Schrock, 2nd Congressional District
Captain, United States Navy, 1964-1988. Two tours of duty in Vietnam. He's listed as apublic affairs officer there. But I'm not going to question his service, you can if you want.

Robert Ruhl 'Rob' Simmons, 2nd Congressional District
United States Army, 1965-1968 Rob enlisted in the U.S. Army in 1965 as a Private, graduated from Infantry Officer Candidate School in 1967, and spent 19 months in Vietnam, where he earned two Bronze Stars.
United States Army Reserves, 1969-1995 Also did some CIA time.

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 05:47 AM
Allright, lets move on to the Senate Republicans who have served in combat.

Ben Nighthorse Campbell, Colorado
U.S. Air Force 1951-53, Korea
Just interesting, but he is a three-time U.S. Judo champion; captained the U.S. Olympic Judo Team at Tokyo Games in 1964; Gold-medal winner in Pan-American Games of 1963

Chuck Hagel, Nebraska
U.S. Army infantry, Sergeant E-5, Vietnam 1967-1968, two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star

John McCain, Arizona
Graduated from the US Naval Academy in 1958 and became a Naval Aviator. In 1967 he was shot down and for 5 1/2 years was a Prisoner of War in North Vietnam. He retired from the Navy as a Captain in 1981. He was awarded the the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.

Ted Stevens
Pilot in the Army Air Corps during World War Two and served in the China-India-Burma theater of operations. He was awarded 2 Distinguished Flying Crosses and 1 Air Medal.

John Warner, Virginia
Enlisted in the U.S. Navy 1945 at age 17.

For the record, there are 4 Democratic combat veterans in the Senate. Including Senator Kerry.

So in the House and the Senate. There are more Republican veterans. There are more Republican combat veterans. There are three Vietnam combat veterans serving on the Presidential cabinet.

I would like to send a thank you for serving to all veterans Democratic and Republican.

Thank you for posting this thread!

Yes indeed, now we do have the truth about Democrats and Republicans in government. If you feel like mailing a personal apology to each and every combat veteran in the Republican party that I have listed, please go right ahead.

It might even be cathartic after having spread that little disinformation pamphlet you posted.

Seiyuuki
10-23-2004, 06:14 AM
The list was more focused on the current neo-conservative block that has hijacked the traditions of the old Republican party. The old honroable republicans who have stood by as thier party was ransacked and destroyed by Bush Jr. and his necons are some of the only honorable Republicans left.


I make a distinction between Neo-cons and the Republican party I used to love and admire. Neo-Cons have completely hijacked the party and its old values and believe me people, if Bush loses there will be civil war in the Republican party and I can only hope that the true Republicans take back the party. If Bush wins, then the Neocons will have completely thier hostile takeover and you will see lots of Republicans leaving the party. Many are already discussing it...........For the sake of the nation and true Republican values I'm voting for Kerry.

No offense, but with your history and lack of wisdom on this forum, you simply don't deserve to speak for the Republican Party, much less Republicans' values.

Seiyuuki
10-23-2004, 06:17 AM
Interesting Ronald Reagan would be mentioned on the list, one of his more memorable quote being, "I didn't leave the Democrat Party, it left me."

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 06:33 AM
They also did Reagan another slight in the craptastic filth of a list that started this Democratic ***** wetting fest.

Reagan was born Feb. 6 1911.

When war was declared in late 1941 he was 30, married and the father of infant (Maureen ) under one year of age.

Before that in 1937 Reagan became a 2nd Lieutenant in the Army Officers Reserve Corps of the Cavalry. When war broke out which was he better suited to be.

1 A near sighted cavalry officer.
2 Use his skills in film to make propaganda and training films with the "Culver City Commandos"

Yeah, probably took the War Department about .5 seconds to make that call.

He was no David Niven to be sure, but its a helluva thing for those Turds to mock his service.

BlackRain
10-23-2004, 07:50 AM
The dirty little truth Republicans dont want America to notice. Anybody here see the pattern? For all thier blustering patriotism and warmongering almost NONE of them actually served our nation in the US military. Perhaps that is why they are all to ready to send young men to die in foreign wars. They have no idea what that actually means.




Kerry received four (4) student deferments. His request for a fifth deferment to study in Paris was refused. Knowing he would likely be drafted into the army, Kerry volunteered for the navy.

Blah blah blah. Do you really want to open this can of worms? Do you know how many deferments the Kerry team has had? As a reminder let us revisit a president popular and acceptable to Democrats who never served his country. However, that was acceptable in 1992 -- I wonder why? Hmmm...

Clinton's Draft Avoidance



August 19, 1964 - Clinton registers for the draft --[Washington Post Sep 13 92]

September 1964 - Clinton, age 18, enters Georgetown University --[The Comeback Kid, CF Allen and J Portis, p. 20]

November 17, 1964- Clinton is classified 2-S (student deferment). This will shield him from the draft throughout his undergraduate years. --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

February 16, 1968 - "The Johnson administration unexpectedly abolished graduate deferments." --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

March 20, 1968 - Clinton, age 21, is classified 1-A, eligible for induction, as he nears graduation from Georgetown. --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

Comment: Bill Clinton was the only man of his prime draft age classified1-A by that draft board in 1968 whose pre-induction physical examination was put off for 10.5 months. This delay was more than twice as long as anyone else and more than five times longer than most area men of comparable eligibility. --[Los Angeles Times Sep 02 92]

Summer 1968 - Political and family influence keeps Clinton out of the draft. Robert Corrado -- the only surviving Hot Springs draft board member from that period -- concluded that Clinton's draft statement (the long delays) was the result of "some form of preferential treatment."

According to the Times, "Corrado recalled that the chairman of the three-man draft panel ... once held back Clinton's file with the explanation that 'we've got to give him time to go to Oxford,' where the semester began in the fall of 1968.

Corrado also complained that he was called by an aide to then Senator J. William Fulbright urging him and his fellow board members to 'give every consideration' to keep Clinton out of the draft so he could attend Oxford.
Throughout the remainder of 1968, Corrado said, Clinton's draft file was routinely held back from consideration by the full board. Consequently, although he was classified 1-A on March 20, 1968, he was not called for his physical exam until Feb 3, 1969, while he was at Oxford.

Clinton's Uncle Raymond Clinton personally lobbied Senator Fulbright, William S. Armstrong, the chairman of the three-man Hot Springs draft board, and Lt. Comdr. Trice Ellis, Jr., commanding officer of the local Navy reserve unit, to obtain a slot for Clinton in the Naval Reserve.
Clinton secured a "standard enlisted man's billet, not an officer's slot which would have required Clinton to serve two years on active duty beginning within 12 months of his acceptance." This Navy Reserve assignment was "created especially for the Bill Clinton at a time in 1968 when no existing reserve slots were open in his hometown unit."
According to the LA Times, "after about two weeks waiting for Bill Clinton to arrive for his preliminary interview and physical exam, Ellis said he called (Clinton's uncle) Raymond to inquire - 'What happened to that boy?' According to Ellis, Clinton's uncle replied - 'Don't worry about it. He won't be coming down. "It's all been taken care of.' "--[LA Times Sep 02 92]

Fall 1968 - Because of the local draft board's continuing postponement of his pre-induction physical, Clinton is able to enroll at Oxford Univ. --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

February 2, 1969 - While at Oxford, Clinton finally takes and passes a military physical examination. --[Washington Times Sep 18 92]

April 1969 - Clinton receives induction notice from the Hot Springs AR draft board. Clinton however claims that the draft board told him to ignore the notice because it arrived after the deadline for induction. --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

June-July 1969 - Clinton receives a second induction notice with a July 28 induction date and returns home. --[Wash Times Sep 18 92]
July 11, 1969 - Clinton's friend at Oxford, Cliff Jackson, writes, "Clinton is feverishly trying to find a way to avoid entering the Army as a drafted private. I have had several of my friends in influential positions trying to pull strings on Bill's behalf."-- [LA Times Sep 26 92]

Clinton benefited from yet another lobbying campaign in order to evade this induction notice. "Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton, who has said he did not pull strings to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, was able to get his Army induction notice canceled in the summer of 1969 after a lobbying effort directed at the Republican head of the state draft agency." Arrangements were made for Clinton to meet with Col. Williard A. Hawkins who "was the only person in Arkansas with authority to rescind a draft notice. ... The apparently successful appeal to Hawkins was planned while Clinton was finishing his first year as a Rhodes scholar in England. Clinton's former friend and Oxford classmate, Cliff Jackson -- now an avowed political critic of the candidate -- said it was pursued immediately upon Clinton's return to AR in early July 1969 to beat a July 28 deadline for induction." -- [LA Times Sep 26 92]

Comment: Jackson's statement is contrary to Clinton's repeated assertions that he received no special treatment in avoiding military service. "(I) never received any unusual or favorable treatment."-- [LA Times Sep 02 92]

August 7, 1969 - Clinton is reclassified 1-D after he arranges to enter the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas. --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]
According to Cliff Jackson, Clinton's Oxford classmate, Clinton used the ROTC program to "kill the draft notice, to avoid reporting on the July 28 induction date, which had already been postponed. And he did that by promising to serve his country in the ROTC, number one, to enroll in the law school that fall ... and he never enrolled."--[Wash Times Sep 17 92]
Comment - Clinton's admission into the ROTC program again runs contrary to his repeated statements that he received no special treatment in order to evade military service. Col. Eugene Holmes, commander of the University of Arkansas ROTC program, said Clinton was admitted after pressure from the Hot Springs draft board and the office of Senator J. William Fulbright (D-AR).

Again, Clinton was receiving preferential treatment. In addition, records from the Army reveal that Clinton was not legally eligible for the ROTC program at that time. Army regulations required recruits to be enrolled at the university and attending classes full-time before being admitted to an ROTC program.

Fall 1969 - Clinton returns to Oxford for a second year. Clinton was supposed to be at the Arkansas Law School. However, according to Cliff Jackson, "Sen. Fulbright's office and Bill himself continued to exert tremendous pressure on poor Col. Holmes to get him [Clinton] to go back to Oxford."
--[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

September 14, 1969 - The Arkansas Gazette, published in Little Rock, headlined a draft suspension was reportedly planned by the President.
Comment - The article, citing a source, said Selective Service reforms when implemented, would only permit the conscription of 19-year-old men. In addition, the source said "the Army would send to Vietnam only enlistees, professional soldiers, and those draftees who volunteered to go." The source contended that these reforms, combined with troop withdrawals, "would put pressure on the Congress to enact draft legislation already proposed by the President ... and set up a lottery to conscript only 19-year-old men," the Gazette reported.

From his letter to Col. Holmes, Bill Clinton said "....Finally, on Sept. 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board,......I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England.". It is very probable that Bill Clinton was in the United States and well aware of the above proposal on Sep 14, 1969. Bill Clinton was 23 years old.

September 19, 1969 - "President Nixon, facing turmoil on college campuses, suspended draft calls for November and December of 1969 and said the October call would be spread out over three months." --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

The President also indicated that if the Congress did not act to establish a lottery system, he would remove by executive order the vulnerability to the draft of all men age 20 to 26.

Comment - Again, Clinton was 23 years old.

September-October 1969 - "At some point, Clinton decided to make himself eligible for the draft and said in February 1992 his stepfather had acted in his behalf to accomplish this. Newsweek, attributing the information to campaign officials, said this all happened in Oct 1969. Clinton spokesperson Betsey Wright ... said she believed it took place in September. The difference is potentially significant. ... If Clinton did not act to give up his deferment until October, he could have known he faced no liability from the draft until the following summer, that he could take his chances with the lottery and find alternative service if he got a low number." --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

October 1, 1969 - "Nixon announced that anyone in graduate school could complete the full year." --[Wash Post Sep 13 92]

Comment - Clinton is now safe from the draft through June 1970.
October 1969 - President Nixon suspends call-up of additional draftees until a draft lottery is held in December.

October 15, 1969 - Clinton organized and led anti-war demonstrations in London.
-- [Wash Times Sep 18 92]

Comment - According to McSorley, Clinton's demonstrations "had the support of British peace organizations" such as the British Peace Council, an arm of the KGB-backed World Peace Council.

October 30, 1969 - Clinton is reclassified 1-A, eligible for induction. --[Wash Times Sep 28 92]

Comment - "Clinton said he put himself into the draft by contacting his draft board in September or October and asking to be reclassified 1-A. ... It is not clear, however, whether that occurred at Clinton's urging or whether his failure to enroll at University of Arkansas automatically cancelled his 1-D deferment."

Clinton has never produced any evidence to substantiate his claim that he initiated his reclassification.

November 16, 1969 - Clinton organized and led anti-war demonstrations in London.

December 1, 1969 - Clinton draws #311 in the first draft lottery. --[Wash Times Sep 18 92]

Comment - Clinton was virtually assured that he would not be drafted because of the high lottery number.

December 3, 1969 - While still in England, Clinton writes to Lt. Col. Eugene Holmes, , commander of the University of Arkansas ROTC Program and states, "From my work I came to believe that the draft system is illegitimate ... I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason - to maintain my political viability."

Clinton's ROTC Letter

As Entered in Congressional Record (Page: H5550) 7/30/93

Dear Col. Holmes,

I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing,about what I want to and ought to say.

First, I want to thank you, not only for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing that made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.

Let me try to explain. As you know, I worked in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did.
I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations October 15 and November 16.
Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to "participation in war in any form."

From my work, I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war, which in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation. The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake.

Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their country and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason only, to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all
finished anyway.)

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and the resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School because there is nothing else I can do. I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to use.

But the particulars of my personal life are not near as important to me as the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program itself and all I seem to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I had begun to think that I had deceived you, not by lies--there were none--but by failing to tell you all of the things I'm telling you now. I doubt I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.

At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self regard and self confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on September 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it with me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of the second year of my Rhodes scholarship.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes and the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is dis-service, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.

Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me.

Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,
Bill Clinton

December 12, 1969 (approximately): Clinton visits Norway where he meets with various "peace" organizations.

December 12 (approx.) - December 31, 1969: ???

Comment: After visiting Norway with Father McSorley, Clinton's movements and activities are unknown until he arrives in Moscow on
December 31, 1969. There are a lot of questions as to who Clinton met and where he went during this time period.

December 31, 1969 - January 6, 1970: Clinton travels to Moscow. He later said "relations between our two countries were pretty good then." He then described his visit as "a very friendly time, a good atmosphere."
Despite Clinton's claim that January 1970 was "a time of détente," relations between the United States and the Soviet Union were anything but warm. The Soviets were supplying the North Vietnamese with advisors and anti-aircraft weapons.

September 7, 1992: Col. Eugene Holmes, USA Ret., signs a notarized statement in which he asserts that "there is the imminent danger to our country of a draft dodger becoming Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States." He later writes that "I believe that he (Clinton) purposefully deceived me, using the possibility of joining the ROTC as a ploy to work with the draft board to delay his induction and get a new draft reclassification."

Brief Background on Colonel Holmes

Colonel Eugene Holmes is a highly decorated officer of the United States Army. He is a survivor of the Bataan Death March and three and a half years as a POW of the Japanese. He served 32 years in the army before retiring with 100% disability. His decorations include the Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars, 2 Legions of Merit, the Army Commendation Medal and many others.

During the Vietnam War, he personally inducted both his sons into the service--one for 3 years as a regular army enlisted man, and the other as a commissioned officer (after he had completed ROTC training).

Col. Homes Notarized Statement

As Entered in Congressional Record (Page: H5551) 7/30/93

September 7, 1992. Memorandum for Record:

Subject: Bill Clinton and the University of Arkansas ROTC Program:
There have been many unanswered questions as to the circumstances surrounding Bill Clinton's involvement with the ROTC department at the University of Arkansas. Prior to this time I have not felt the necessity for discussing the details. The reason I have not done so before is that my poor physical health (a consequence of participation in the Bataan Death March and the subsequent three and a half years interment in Japanese POW camps) has precluded me from getting into what I felt was unnecessary involvement. However, present polls show that there is the imminent danger to our country of a draft dodger becoming Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. While it is true, as Mr. Clinton has stated, that there were many others who avoided serving their country in the Vietnam war, they are not aspiring to be the President of the United States.

The tremendous implications of the possibility of his becoming Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces compels me now to comment on the facts concerning Mr. Clinton's evasion of the draft. This account would not have been imperative had Bill Clinton been completely honest with the American public concerning this matter. But as Mr. Clinton replied on a news conference this evening (September 5, 1992) after being asked another particular about his dodging the draft, "Almost everyone concerned with these incidents are dead. I have no more comments to make". Since I may be the only person living who can give a first hand account of what actually transpired, I am obligated by my love for my country and my sense of duty to divulge what actually happened and make it a matter of record.

Bill Clinton came to see me at my home in 1969 to discuss his desire to enroll in the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas. We engaged in an extensive, approximately two (2) hour interview. At no time during this long conversation about his desire to join the program did he inform me of his involvement, participation and actually organizing protests against the United States involvement in South East Asia. He was shrewd enough to realize that had I been aware of his activities, he would not have been accepted into the ROTC program as a potential officer in the United States Army.

The next day I began to receive phone calls regarding Bill Clinton's draft status. I was informed by the draft board that it was of interest to Senator Fullbright's office that Bill Clinton, a Rhodes Scholar, should be admitted to the ROTC program. I received several such calls. The general message conveyed by the draft board to me was that Senator Fullbright's office was putting pressure on them and that they needed my help. I then made the necessary arrangements to enroll Mr. Clinton into the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas.

I was not "saving" him from serving his country, as he erroneously thanked me for in his letter from England (dated December 3,1969). I was making it possible for a Rhodes Scholar to serve in the military as an officer. In retrospect I see that Mr. Clinton had no intention of following through with his agreement to join the Army ROTC program at the University of Arkansas or to attend the University of Arkansas Law School. I had explained to him the necessity of enrolling at the University of Arkansas as a student in order to be eligible to take the ROTC program at the University. He never enrolled at the University of Arkansas, but instead enrolled at Yale after attending Oxford. I believe that he purposely deceived me, using the possibility of joining the ROTC as a ploy to work with the draft board to delay his induction and get a new draft classification.

The December 3rd letter written to me by Mr. Clinton, and subsequently taken from the files by Lt. Col. Clint Jones, my executive officer, was placed into the ROTC files so that a record would be available in case the applicant should again petition to enter the ROTC program. The information in that letter alone would have restricted Bill Clinton from ever qualifying to be an officer in the United States Military. Even more significant was his lack of veracity in purposefully defrauding the military by deceiving me, both in concealing his anti-military activities overseas and his counterfeit intentions for later military service. These actions cause me to question both his patriotism and his integrity. When I consider the caliber, the bravery, and the patriotism of the fine young soldiers whose deaths I have witnessed, and others whose funerals I have attended.... When I reflect on not only the willingness but eagerness that so many of them displayed in their earnest desire to defend and serve their country, it is untenable and incomprehensible to me that a man who was not merely unwilling to serve his country, but actually protested against its military, should ever be in the position of Commander-in-Chief of our armed Forces.

I write this declaration not only for the living and future generations, but for those who fought and died for our country. If space and time permitted I would include the names of the ones I knew and fought with, and along with them I would mention my brother Bob, who was killed during World War II and is buried in Cambridge, England (at the age of 23, about the age Bill Clinton was when he was over in England protesting the war). I have agonized over whether or not to submit this statement to the American people. But, I realize that even though I served my country by being in the military for over 32 years, and having gone through the ordeal of months of combat under the worst of conditions followed by years of imprisonment by the Japanese,it is not enough. I'm writing these comments to let everyone know that I love my country more than I do my own personal security and well-being. I will go to my grave loving these United States of America and the liberty for which so many men have fought and died. Because of my poor physical condition this will be my final statement. I will make no further comments to any of the media regarding this issue.

Eugene Holmes
Colonel, U.S.A., Ret.
September 1992

ibstolidude
10-23-2004, 09:22 AM
The point of the post however is that the number of Democratic politicians outnumber the number of Republican politicians who served in the US armed forces by far. Proove it.

Not a partial list either - if you can make a definitive statement such as this you either
a - have the facts
b - are a liar
c - are plain ignorant but don't care.

MARINO
10-23-2004, 10:50 AM
interesting post

BlackRain
10-23-2004, 12:00 PM
Hey ODB, How about something more important.

The men and women who are actually in the US armed forces who are on the front lines in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the war on terror are risking their lives daily.

Guess what?

They are overwhelmingly Republican and are supporting Bush's re-election.



Military survey 3 to 1 for Bush

Men and women in the military favor President Bush 3 to 1, according to a survey by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, despite reservations about troop strength and an exit strategy in Iraq.

A significant majority of those polled also believe the country is moving in the right direction and that Mr. Bush has better plan for success in Iraq than Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry.

Mr. Bush received a response of favorable from 69 percent of military personnel polled, compared with 29 percent for Mr. Kerry. Twenty-three percent viewed the president unfavorably, compared to Mr. Kerry's 54 percent.


http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041015-114351-8866r.htm

Trigger
10-23-2004, 03:15 PM
Nice work fellas.

Once again, obd gets butt-*****ed on national TV. rofl

fokket
10-23-2004, 03:20 PM
so because they didnt serve in the Armed Forces, that means they arent as good as the democrats?



I believe it's matter of being able to understand war better.

Sir Zach of R.
10-23-2004, 03:33 PM
I'm gonna update the score board.

Repubs on milphotos.net: 23

Dems on milphotos.net: -2

HooyahCQB
10-23-2004, 03:40 PM
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.





obd...dude. Military service was mandatory for him. He was AWOL because he went to compete in a muscle pagent...and guess what? If he hadn't, he would not have become the star he is today, boning JFK's niece..

So he doesn't even count.









Dumb ass...

Knutsen
10-23-2004, 04:02 PM
I'm gonna update the score board.

Repubs on milphotos.net: 23

Dems on milphotos.net: -2

Congratulations!!!
Why do you guys always turn discussions into competitions?? Does that make you better?
As we say in Spain, "toma chaval, un azucarillo"

Btw, i'm one of that 90% of the population who think Bush will be the next Hitler. I just hope one day Bush faces an international court for his crimes against humanity in Iraq, just like Saddam or Milosevic.
Republicans deserve all my respect , Bush don't.

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 04:03 PM
In case people skip page 2:

You can also go back to page two of this post and find the list of Republicans and their records from Congress and the Cabinet that they "forgot."


Military Service14
There are 154 Members of the 108th Congress who have had some form of military
service, some 14 fewer than in the 107th Congress. The House has 118 veterans: 70
Republicans and 48 Democrats, including one woman, who is a Republican. In the
Senate, 35 Members are veterans: 19 Republicans and 16 Democrats. They have served
in World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, and Kosovo, and during
times of peace, as well as in the Reserves and the National Guard. One Senator is a
former Secretary of the Navy. There has been a steady decline in the number of Members
who have served in the military, which may be attributed in part to the end of the
Selective Service System draft in 1973.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RS21379.pdf

A slightly more thorough review showed:
1. More Republican vets in both houses by percentage as well as by total numbers.
2. More Republican combat vets in both houses.
3. 3 combat vets of Vietnam in the Cabnet.

Yes, I'm reposting the information from page two. But I don't want anyone to read the BS on page one, and miss the facts on page two of this post.

obd
10-23-2004, 04:12 PM
The dirty little truth Republicans dont want America to notice. Anybody here see the pattern? For all thier blustering patriotism and warmongering almost NONE of them actually served our nation in the US military. Perhaps that is why they are all to ready to send young men to die in foreign wars. They have no idea what that actually means. Compare Republican service record in he military to Democrat service and it becomes all to clear what kind of people make up the Republican party: blustering moral cowards and bigots. (John McCain being the only one with real honor and integrity which is why he is the black sheep of the party)


Republicans:

* **** Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage. Investigated by the FBI for treason as head of Haliburton for secret deals with Libya and Iran, both terrorist enemies of the United States of America while those nations were under US sanctions for direct involvement in the deaths of US military personel and civilians. Put profit over patriotic duty to his country.

* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.

* Tom Delay: did not serve.

* Roy Blunt: did not serve.

* Bill Frist: did not serve.

* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.

* Rick Santorum: did not serve.

* Trent Lott: did not serve.

* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.

* Jeb Bush: did not serve.

* Karl Rove: did not serve.

* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max
Cleland's patriotism.

* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.

* Vin Weber: did not serve.

* Richard Perle: did not serve.

* Douglas Feith: did not serve.

* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.

* Richard Shelby: did not serve.

* Jon Kyl: did not serve.

* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.

* Christopher Cox: did not serve.

* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.

* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.

* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S.
Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty

* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role

making movies.

* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.

* Phil Gramm: did not serve.

* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart
and Distinguished Flying Cross.

* John M. McHugh: did not serve.

* JC Watts: did not serve.

* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued

in NFL for 8 years.

* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.

* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.

* George Pataki: did not serve.

* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.

* John Engler: did not serve.

* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.

* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.


Pundits &Preachers

* Sean Hannity: did not serve.

* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')

* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.

* Michael Savage: did not serve.

* George Will: did not serve.

* Chris Matthews: did not serve.

* Paul Gigot: did not serve.

* Bill Bennett: did not serve.

* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.

* John Wayne: did not serve.

* Bill Kristol: did not serve.

* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.

* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.

* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.

* Ralph Reed: did not serve.

* Michael Medved: did not serve.

* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.

* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot

back.)




Democrats:

* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.

* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.

* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.

* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.

* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.

* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.

* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,
Purple Hearts.

* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.

* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &Bronze Star,

Vietnam.

* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.

* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.

* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.

* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven

campaign ribbons.

* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze

Stars, and Soldier's Medal.

* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star

and Legion of Merit.

* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.

* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
Star with Combat V.

* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.

* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57

* Chuck Robb: Vietnam

* Howell Heflin: Silver Star

* George McGovern: Silver Star &DFC during WWII.

* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but

received #311.

* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.

* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953

* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18

Clusters.

* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.

obd
10-23-2004, 04:19 PM
By the way, not matter how you slice it, that list of Republicans who did NOT serve pretty much ecompasses the ENTIRE neoconservative movement which has currenlty hijacked the Republican party..........Try to remmember people that every Republican is NOT a neocon and every republican is NOT an evangelical christian nutcase. Only the neocons are like that!!!!!

No matter how many Republicans you find for your lists, there is no denying that most of the current most powerful and influential Republican neocons are on that list and nearly NONE OF THEM SERVED!!!!!!

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 04:36 PM
Why do you keep posting a list that leaves out Cabinet members Colin Powell and Tom Ridge, but includes Ted Nugent?

Are you trying to be intentionally dense?

That list is flawed, and you know it. Posting after knowing it is posting intentionally misleading crap.

This little BS pamphlet has been dealt with in great detail. If you had taken the time to review the records of Democrats in the house and senate and post that, that I could respect.

I can't beleive you are continuing on this line after the hard facts have already been posted.

You think its OK to skip the records of the Republicans that did serve, insult the service of the few mentioned that did serve, and then just prance away?

Oh, and if you do post the records of the Democrats that served in the house and senate, don't forget Zell Miller. UmKay

Sir Zach of R.
10-23-2004, 07:23 PM
I'm gonna update the score board.

Repubs on milphotos.net: 23

Dems on milphotos.net: -2

Congratulations!!!
Why do you guys always turn discussions into competitions?? Does that make you better?
As we say in Spain, "toma chaval, un azucarillo"

Btw, i'm one of that 90% of the population who think Bush will be the next Hitler. I just hope one day Bush faces an international court for his crimes against humanity in Iraq, just like Saddam or Milosevic.
Republicans deserve all my respect , Bush don't.

Crimes against humanity?!?!?! Holy ****! You've just won the ******* of the YEAR award! I am so baffled by what you mean by that, that I instantly burst out laughing when I read it! Care to elaborate on why GWB should be tried for war crimes? Does that mean every senator, state representative, prime minister, etc, that voted for the war be tried for war crimes?

basket of soft kittens
10-23-2004, 07:58 PM
I'm gonna update the score board.

Repubs on milphotos.net: 23

Dems on milphotos.net: -2

Congratulations!!!
Why do you guys always turn discussions into competitions?? Does that make you better?
As we say in Spain, "toma chaval, un azucarillo"

Btw, i'm one of that 90% of the population who think Bush will be the next Hitler. I just hope one day Bush faces an international court for his crimes against humanity in Iraq, just like Saddam or Milosevic.
Republicans deserve all my respect , Bush don't.

you swear like america would let that happen..hitler has defined such a clear standard of evil that when people even get close to being like him the citizens go nuts!!!! do you think that we cant keep a leash on our political officials?? we just threw out one of our governers in the middle of his term because he couldnt preform!

Crimes against humanity?!?!?! Holy ****! You've just won the ******* of the YEAR award! I am so baffled by what you mean by that, that I instantly burst out laughing when I read it! Care to elaborate on why GWB should be tried for war crimes? Does that mean every senator, state representative, prime minister, etc, that voted for the war be tried for war crimes?

gm79
10-23-2004, 08:01 PM
George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S.
Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty

"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with war on my mind. And again, I wish it wasn't true, but it is true. And the American people need to know they've got a president who sees the world the way it is. And I see dangers that exist, and it's important for us to deal with them."
Bush, February 17th 2004

Funny guy....

fokket
10-23-2004, 08:22 PM
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

obd...dude. Military service was mandatory for him. He was AWOL because he went to compete in a muscle pagent...and guess what? If he hadn't, he would not have become the star he is today, boning JFK's niece..

So he doesn't even count.


Dumb ass...

I believe both sides interesting because

Arnie wasn't AWOL permanently, yes he had to compete and he had no option. It wasn't like he was trying to 'escape' the Army forever. and the argument should end there. By the way, I'm suprised that he didn't become a Democrat.

ThePatriot
10-23-2004, 08:48 PM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

gm79
10-23-2004, 09:13 PM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

But how can someone run away from the military service and later say "I'm a war president." ?

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 09:14 PM
driving an abrams.

Thanks. And good luck out there. Remember to keep the clanky side down.

priccobe
10-23-2004, 09:49 PM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

But how can someone run away from the military service and later say "I'm a war president." ?
Who ran away from military service??? Bush?? Oh, OK, make sure you tell everyone here who serves in the NG they aren't REALLY serving...

gm79
10-23-2004, 09:53 PM
Who ran away from military service??? Bush?? Oh, OK, make sure you tell everyone here who serves in the NG they aren't REALLY serving...

Did he realy served the NG? Can you prove that?

priccobe
10-23-2004, 09:54 PM
Ted Nugent and John Wayne are neocons that hijacked and now control the Bush administration behind the scenes??? BWAHAHAHAHAHA rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Mark Smam, good job on your posts!!! Really broke the already weak arguments of some of the more ignorant members posting BS here!

priccobe
10-23-2004, 09:55 PM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

But how can someone run away from the military service and later say "I'm a war president." ?
Who ran away from military service??? Bush?? Oh, OK, make sure you tell everyone here who serves in the NG they aren't REALLY serving...

Did he realy served the NG? Can you prove that?

Are you smoking crack? Or are you just yanking chains???

gm79
10-23-2004, 09:57 PM
Did he realy served the NG? Can you prove that?
Are you smoking crack? Or are you just yanking chains???

No i'm not.
Can you prove that?

Sir Zach of R.
10-23-2004, 09:59 PM
Can you prove that GWB wasn't just flying the secret Aurora spyplane over Moscow during the Vietnam war? I rest my case. :lol:

Mark Sman
10-23-2004, 10:14 PM
Can you prove that?Can you prove that?

Seeing as Bush''s DD214 is available and Kerry's isn't. Yes we can prove Bush served in the Guard. Its in the records.

Cherry or Vanilla crack?

basket of soft kittens
10-24-2004, 12:03 AM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

But how can someone run away from the military service and later say "I'm a war president." ?

becasue he is a president who serves in the white house during the time of war.

Rakki
10-24-2004, 01:12 AM
Bush actually served at least two years full time - flight training. Then two years in which he met and exceeded his ANG obligations. It was only the last two years when he was borderline on meeting his ANG obligations.

I don't know how the Naval Reserves work, but I bet Bush spent more time in uniform than Kerry did - Kerry did what, some officers training, commanded a boat for 4 months of active duty, went off to be an admiral's aide - then excused himself to kiss North Vietnamese **** and sell out his country and other soldiers.

Seiyuuki
10-24-2004, 01:29 AM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

But how can someone run away from the military service and later say "I'm a war president." ?

Simple, it's a political term, Wilson was a war president (WWI), FDR was a war president (WW2), Nixon, Johnson, etc. were war president (Vietnam), President Bush is a war president (Afghanistan and Iraq), see the pattern, get the point, LEARN IT, KNOW IT, BE IT!!! (I think Mail Call is influencing my language too much these day)

Mark Sman
10-24-2004, 06:21 AM
Damit all.

I'm going to pop this to the top again.

Woodrow Wilson, Democrat, never served, during his time of eiligibility there were no big wars. Or maybe it was a personal choice. Either way he was a good wartime president.

FDR, Democrat, never served. He had Polio. An almost unkown thing these days, but it robbed many children of their mobility back in the day. Definetly a reason not to serve. You wouldn't have been allowed back in the day, even if you wanted to.

Lyndon B. Johnson served in the US Navy, silver star, he was a terrible wartime president. POTUS was practically usless his term in Vietnam.

Nixon , Republican, US Navy, was a good wartime president. He pulled us out of Vietnam. A war we couldn't win under the conditions left to him.

He abolished selctive service, continuing a Republican tradition. No Republican has enacted the draft since the Republican Abraham Lincoln did during the Civil War. The draft has only been started by Democratic presidents since then.

BlackRain
10-24-2004, 07:47 AM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

But how can someone run away from the military service and later say "I'm a war president." ?

Bush did not "run away" from military service like say Senator John Edwards.

Bush served in the Texas Air National Guard as a pilot for several years.

John Edwards smoked pot and drank beer at Clemson University. It is very interesting that there is some much focus on Bush's military service when Clinton's draft dodging was ignored by Democrats. However, Clinton was a "war president" by getting us involved in Serbia among other wars and fights during his presidentcy.

You anti-Bush folks really undercut your argument by ignoring Clinton.

achilles
10-24-2004, 08:07 AM
I recently left my job as a mortgate banker to join the armed service driving an abrams. (taking a huge salary cut ) I'm going to voted for bush today as well. I love how obd calls everyone traitors. I bet when the bullets start flying he would **** his pants.

But how can someone run away from the military service and later say "I'm a war president." ?

Bush did not "run away" from military service like say Senator John Edwards.

Bush served in the Texas Air National Guard as a pilot for several years.

John Edwards smoked pot and drank beer at Clemson University. It is very interesting that there is some much focus on Bush's military service when Clinton's draft dodging was ignored by Democrats. However, Clinton was a "war president" by getting us involved in Serbia among other wars and fights during his presidentcy.

You anti-Bush folks really undercut your argument by ignoring Clinton.

:backhand:


:D

Mark Sman
10-24-2004, 10:25 AM
I am also not one to give up easily.




In case people skip page 2:

You can also go back to page two of this post and find the list of Republicans and their records from Congress and the Cabinet that they "forgot."

Quote:
Military Service14
There are 154 Members of the 108th Congress who have had some form of military
service, some 14 fewer than in the 107th Congress. The House has 118 veterans: 70
Republicans and 48 Democrats, including one woman, who is a Republican. In the
Senate, 35 Members are veterans: 19 Republicans and 16 Democrats. They have served
in World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, and Kosovo, and during
times of peace, as well as in the Reserves and the National Guard. One Senator is a
former Secretary of the Navy. There has been a steady decline in the number of Members
who have served in the military, which may be attributed in part to the end of the
Selective Service System draft in 1973.


http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RS21379.pdf

A slightly more thorough review showed:
1. More Republican vets in both houses by percentage as well as by total numbers.
2. More Republican combat vets in both houses.
3. 3 combat vets of Vietnam in the Cabnet.

Yes, I'm reposting the information from page two. But I don't want anyone to read the BS on page one, and miss the facts on page two of this post.


For a more full, and most humbling, acount of just what Republicans they skipped, go back to page two o fthis post. Read and learn.

Deuterium
10-24-2004, 12:11 PM
I officially declare this thread to be fully debunked. Thanks OBD for starting this ruckus of misinformation. Thank-you Mark for, from the start, allowing FACTS to speak louder than mud.

Deuterium
10-24-2004, 12:23 PM
Oh and this thread is LOCKED. I'm all for political discussions but this one is patently false and does nothing but make us all dumber.