2 More Sodliers died im IRAQ

[Luxembourger]

THis sucks and sucks more and more

When is this going to stop?
They should not go on Patrol anymore and stay at their camps and let IRAQI police do the job

Look In Afghnaistan there are less US troops and there the ambushes are less than in IRAQ

[mocking_loudly]

Obviously you a military genius and your plan of hunkering down in bunkers is sheer and utter brilliance.

Christ, some one get me a gun.

[Luxembourger]

I know my plans always work
do you have a better idea?

[mocking_loudly]

Yes you drink cement and I go to the beach to contemplate normality.

[ShotOver]

Stay in their camps and let Iraqi Police do the patrols?

What kind of a stupid ass idea is that?

hahahahahahaha rofl

[Luxembourger]

WEll if you don t like US Troops I may understand your postition
but it is one possiblity to avoid daily attacks

Or reducing the number of troops would work too

[ShotOver]

hahahahahahaha, they need more troops there.

Staying inside camps is 100% stupid.

See they got under mortar attack at their base the other day? and the UN base/compound got blown up by a truck bomb, they were bases..were they safe?

Less patrols = Chaos.
More Patrols = More area coverd, Safer Iraq.


What would be the point of occupying a country if you will stay in your base and not keep the place safer?

[Saranof]

...but they sould use more iraqi police, since the bad guys are probly less inclined to killing thier own countrymen..

[ShotOver]

They blow up and kill everyone, why would they care who is who?

Terrorists are Terrorists, kill them all and let Allah sort them out.

[Saranof]

They blow up and kill everyone, why would they care who is who?

Terrorists are Terrorists, kill them all and let Allah sort them out.


Yeah, sounds a bit like wot people said about the black people in the 18th centary...

:roll:

As I said before, you can't kill terrorism with bombs. You can kill terrorists, but if you do, you just prove them right and they can recruit more and more new guys.

[ShotOver]

Killing them makes them "Marters" (Spelling?) for their cause.

So, i dont know what you could do. But making US and Other Allied troops stay in their camps is the dumbest idea ive ever heard.

[MSG Dman]

Soldiers died, and this is indeed tragic, but the idea that we are failing in Iraq and should pull out is crazy. The news media is focusing only on these events, and not all the positive things going on right now.

How many people do you think were murdered in America last night? How many cops died in the line of duty this past week? Should the police in LA hide in their stations because a couple of cops died doing their job? Two soldiers dying is not that large of a number considering the scale of the operation we are in. We should honor them by driving on with the mission. Anything less would be a waste of their sacrifice.

My opinion, if you do not like it, so what.

[Argyll]

MSGMan wrote

How many people do you think were murdered in America last night? How many cops died in the line of duty this past week?

There is a lot to be said for that statement,which tells us that the Drugs and Gun culture within the US is a far greater threat to its society in its present form,than using Iraq as an excuse as a terrorist hotbed,and that the war in Iraq is now the war on terror,when it is abundantly clear that the terrorism hotbed has been and always will be within Israel,and the Occupied territories,and that region of the Middle East!

The reason for going to this war are losing public opinions faith in their respective Governments,and therefore the excuses and the goalposts will change constantly.
My sympathies got to those who have lost their lives in this war!My support for this war is still as strong,but the reasons for doing so are getting more questionable by the day.
I hear always statements" they died for my freedom"........no they did not,unless you live in an oppressed state then you have Freedom and democracy,where you enjoy your home comforts,they died to give others hope of Freedom.
When you go about your daily chores without fear of oppression you are Free,as the people of the US have as the people of the UK have,and most other european countries have...............but sadly there are many ststes who oppress their people and we do nothing........for that read Zimbabwe!

[RoBBo]

i believe there is no real solution to the attacks. in some respects america bit off more than they could chew going into iraq, there great rebuilding plan has gone to **** because of the amount of guirilla fighting that is happening and the problem is they are never going to be able to get it fully stable so they are either going to be there forever or they will blow too much money on it and pull out completely

[ibstolidude]

They blow up and kill everyone, why would they care who is who?

Terrorists are Terrorists, kill them all and let Allah sort them out.


Yeah, sounds a bit like wot people said about the black people in the 18th centary...

:roll:

As I said before, you can't kill terrorism with bombs. You can kill terrorists, but if you do, you just prove them right and they can recruit more and more new guys.

- ahh.. sorry to burst your bubble - who said this "about the black people in the 18th centary..." I am interested to see that quote.

[ibstolidude]

daily chores without fear of oppression you are Free,as the people of the US have as the people of the UK have,and most other european countries have...............but sadly there are many ststes who oppress their people and we do nothing........for that read Zimbabwe!

-well since all states in the world are not helped; noone should help anyone??

[usa320]

What is needed is more patrols, more troops, more work with international/indigenous forces, and most importantly, MORE FORCEFULL offensives... Get the bastards before they can get us.

[spier]

2 More Sodliers died im IRAQ Only 147.000 to go!

"Bring 'em on!"

[usa320]

http://www.x-plane.org/users/usa320/stfu.jpg

Only 2 more assholes to go, SPier and Morty...Bring em on.

Wheres my fork? Oh....here it is :fork:

[spier]

How clever!

You managed to put up this hilarious picture that I have never seen before in my life and completely ridicule my post! Har har!
:roll:
Now go away. Where the hell do these idiots come from anyway?

edit: before you answer that, go look up "rhetorical question".

[NcDeuce]

Yeah it does suck that we're losing men. Daily, it seems...

Our military is in a tough role, playing "policeman". I don't like it, but we're the only nation that can make it happen.

Afghanistan still has over 10,000 troops and much less media running around. And many of the operations in Afghanistan are covert.

[Argyll]

Stoli,
I'm not following yor comment?
What I have said is that there are plenty of Countries in the world who have and are oppressing their people,and we ARE doing nothing.

We the West allowed genocide in Rawanda,and a million died before the French Decided to put troops in.
We the West allowed Ethnic cleansing to happen in the balkans ,before it was decided it was a European issue,then Became NATO's issue.
We the West have turned a blind eye to what has been happening to the continent of Africa for decades,apart from Somalia,and we all know how that ended,there have been African terror groups operating with impunity for the same number of years,but because they are only killing each other that is fine?But as soon as US lives are lost then it becomes a major issue?

Initially the Iraq war was seen as a major military victory,but as long as this drags on,and I for one do not believe that even the Capture or Death of saddam will make a blind bit of difference,the difference here is that there are Iraqis who are thankfull for the removal of a regime,who was not the worst in mankind,do not to be Westernised and governed by Western Influenced Politicians,and quite simply want their own odentities and cultures back.
If the USA was ever invaded by Russia during the tensions during the cold war,then it would be a natural thing to take up arms and bear them against the aggressors and occupiers of your land,if the Russians tried to force communism on you,you would not accept their way of life,well my friend,despite having decades of oppresion upon them,many Iraqis simply do not know any other way of life,many will see the US/UK as occupiers of their birthplace,and will see them as simply as the Infedels occupying their birthplace forcing their laws and ways of life upon them!!

When I was in the Falkands after the war,we were on Patrol,and approached a farm to ask for some water,and a roof over our heads instead of bivvying out ,not much to ask for really, This was 5 years after the conflict,only for this farmer to tell us to take a hike and Piss off,and that he didn't want squaddies anywhere on his farm,someone mentioned the sacrafices the British Army gave for his Freedom,you know what he said,the Argies never bothered him,they just let him get on with his way of life,and he tended to his sheep,and that he never asked for anybody to come and Free him,because he was never a prisoner in the 1st place!
This did not go down too well with the lads who all wanted to kick this assholes head in..........the Patrol Sergeant,a veteran of 20 years who was in Aden in 67,and had done dozens of tours in NI ,thanked him for his time,and took us off this guys land,when we finally stopped for the night,we asked him why he never lost the head,he turned to us all and said,the guy had a point,and that we were guests in his land and we had to treat these guys with civility and dignity,no matter how much they did not want us there!!

[Rantanplan]

Terrorists are Terrorists, kill them all and let Allah sort them out.

hahaha sounds like Bart Simpsons Uncle rofl

[Vance]

Terrorists are Terrorists, kill them all and let Allah sort them out.

hahaha sounds like Bart Simpsons Uncle rofl
Bart doesn't have an uncle??

[Seiyuuki]

Actually, he does...Don't you remember.

Homer got a brother who own a car company and got rich then he met Homer and Homer screw up everything with the "Homer's Mobile." He became a bum and then met the Homer and his family again, invented the "baby translator" or some sort like that and become rich again and gave Bart, I think, a lifetime membership to the NRA.

[Rantanplan]

http://mitglied.lycos.de/BarGum/simpsons/gifd/herb.gifHerbert Powell

But, I don't mean him. In one Episode Marge tells a Story about a relative of her. He runs Amok and Used the sentence " kill them all and let God sort them out." I think he was her Uncle so he is Barts great Uncle.

[Vance]

Well, I knew he had THAT uncle, but I don't remember him ever saying that. Turns out I was right.

[Rantanplan]

No You said Bart has no Uncle!
So you were completly wrong!!!!

Shame on You!!!! ;)

[Fioraon]

Yes soldiers are going to die, its a shame because most really are great people once you remove the face paint. But they have a job to do and pulling out or running will only fail those who have died, those who are there, the Iraqi's, and the world.

[Luxembourger]

At least they should reduce the accidents that cause many causalties among US troops . There are many Accidents with Humvees ( You can t speed a lot with A Humvee so why all those accidents ) then you have those accidents like falling from a roof or getting a stroke or to swim in the tigris and get drunk.

[martinexsquaddie]

well my brothers got his winning ticket for an all expenses trip to somewhere hot and sandy for 6 months leaving OCtober 6 Brought himself a high speed vest though why he needs that for 6 months stagging on I don't know :lol:
The british bit smeems much calmer as its mostly saddam lovers and the odd saudi causing problems. and the volunteers don't want to kill anybody who's not a yankee. But the media don't want to show the places where there are not constant attacks as thats not news. Same as large parts OF NI were not a warzone

[ibstolidude]

Stoli,
I'm not following yor comment?
What I have said is that there are plenty of Countries in the world who have and are oppressing their people,and we ARE doing nothing.

We the West allowed genocide in Rawanda,and a million died before the French Decided to put troops in.
We the West allowed Ethnic cleansing to happen in the balkans ,before it was decided it was a European issue,then Became NATO's issue.
We the West have turned a blind eye to what has been happening to the continent of Africa for decades,apart from Somalia,and we all know how that ended,there have been African terror groups operating with impunity for the same number of years,but because they are only killing each other that is fine?But as soon as US lives are lost then it becomes a major issue?


I respect your opinions as I have in the past, but strongly disagree with the "we did nothing then/there so lets do nothing now" arguement.
- the arguement of "we should not do anything in Iraq as lots of other countries are also bad, yet we do nothing" is circular logic...it is the cheapest form of an argument and has NOTHING to so with current operations in Iraq...
after all people still kill, why make it illegal?
certainly mistakes have been made in the past...errors have been made both on the side of action and caution...
BUT to pretend we should do nothing UNLESS we can help all countries is goofy more commonly worded as " we'll North Korea is bad too" (A commonly used arguement by many here - NOT ARGYLL neccessarily).
--only an idiot would invade a country that didn't provide some level of strategic interest, certainly Iraq provides that in many ways.

ARGUING the merits of the operations in Iraq is one thing but linking it to "others are also bad" has little or no basis as to wether operations should have been conducted in IRAQ or should/should not continue.

& I too have seen the effects of a long term deployment in a country in which you are not welcome everyone (again let's not pretend that Iraq as a whole wants us out tommorrow)..but that again is an arguement in it's own right with NOTHING to do with "other countries are opressive too"..the average "Akbar" on the street (especially country) often could careless who is in charge - typically they just want to be left alone..it is my "18 foot rope theory of geopolitcal economics" - after becoming numerously "third world qualified" I have learned the average person usually could care less about what you bring to the table, or what you may rebuild for his country, it is a concept he lacks. What he really wants is one thing, a single school, a single well, a new road, or (hence the name) "a longer piece of rope because the short piece I have now lets the donkey **** by the door when tied off..if it was longer he could stand over in the grass." - no matter what you do, if you don't provide that one thing - he will never view you as a success in the short term.

from another post - "daily chores without fear of oppression you are Free,as the people of the US have as the people of the UK have,and most other european countries have...............but sadly there are many ststes who oppress their people and we do nothing........for that read Zimbabwe!"

And much is being done int those other regions to support security, although I only list some from the US, it was rare that I have been someplace and not seen a like UK presence. Let's not pretend that we sit and watch...certainly more can be done or done differently, but such will always be the case.

1. ..current USAID involvement & missions - this list does not included governement funded NGO's only the GOV agensy USAID:
Angola, Benin Burundi DR Congo Eritrea Ethiopia Ghana Guinea Kenya Liberia Madagascar Malawi Mali Mozambique Namibia Nigeria Rwanda Senegal Sierra Leone Somalia South Africa Sudan Tanzania Uganda Zambia Zimbabwe Afghanistan Bangladesh Cambodia Egypt India Indonesia Jordan Lebanon Mongolia Morocco Nepal Pakistan Philippines
Sri Lanka West Bank Burma China East Timor Israel Laos Thailand Vietnam Yemen Albania Armenia Azerbaijan Belarus Bosnia-Herzegovina
Bulgaria Croatia Cyprus Czech Republic Georgia Ireland/Northern Ireland (UK) Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan FYR of Macedonia Moldova Romania Russia
Serbia & Montenegro Slovak Republic Tajikistan Turkey Turkmenistan Ukraine Uzbekistan Bolivia Brazil Colombia Cuba Dominican Republic Ecuador El Salvador Guatemala Guyana Haiti Honduras Jamaica Mexico
Nicaragua Panama Paraguay Peru + several missions in the process of closing - LIthuiania, Poland for example.

- again this list is USAID ONLY not the countless NGO's funded by US governemnt

2. as far as the us providing joint trainging and security assitance (does not include current contingency operations), humaitarian efforts, medcaps & medflags, and demining.. with last 3 years notcompletely inclusive all DOD open sources:
antigua barbuda argentina bahamas barbados belize bolivia brazil chile
columbia costa rica dominica dominican republic equador el salvador
grenada guatemala jamaica nicaragua paraguay peru st kitts and nevis
st lucia st vincent trinidad tobago uruguay venezuala kosovo macedonia
albania croatia germany hungary poland romania isreal saudia arabia
kuwait sierra leone Congo Morroco, senegal, phillipines, thailand, mongolia, djibouti, through out the Horn of Africa, kenya, ethiopia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chad, Estonia, Republic of Georgia, Lebanon, Mauritania, Moldova, Namibia, Rwanda, Swaziland, Zimbabwe, Georgia,
on and on and on - I stopped WAY early

[96B]

Regardless of what anybody wants to admit, the media DOES focus in on the bad news over all of the good. They spend all of their time talking about all of the problems we have and criticize but never offer solutions. Almost all of the attacks and trouble our soldiers are getting is in the Sunni triangle. The media makes it seem like the entire country is in chaos and disorder. Maybe they should take thier video cameras to Basra and see what a hell of a job the Brits have done, or to the north with the Kurds. It is terrible that we are losing men every other day but we must continue strong and honor their deaths as sacrifices to our mission in Iraq. We have already put in place something like 50,000 Iraqi police, security, army etc and we must increase their numbers so that they can take back their own country and its security and protection.

[Argyll]

Nice post Stoli,
But the 3 key points I mentioned,you skipped around,I generalised the West as a whole,I did not specificaly say what did you do.
Did we or did we not as Free and Democraticly elected countries fail to help stop what was going on,before it was too late............I believe we did.
I never said lets do nothing now either,I said were doing nothing,giving financial aid is all fine if it is used in the correct manner,listing all the states that have recieved finacial aid,is a good example,but how can you be so sure that the aid is going to the very people that require it,and not some slush fund for when,or if they ever do get toppled,Militarily,or through democratic process.Giving Financial Aid is all well and done,but you never give nothing for nothing,want to ease the worlds pain is commendable,but writing off a lot of 3rd world countries Debt would be a far more appreciated gesture.
Yeah you're also right.........I could've opened the old Korea chestnut,but what was the point

[ibstolidude]

actually although I may not have communicated well, those are not the countries to which the US provides financial aid but those of which have active USAID office missions....ie. cival administration/civil engineering/education/medical + project missions.

[Argyll]

got ya!..........thanks!!
Being a Limey sometimes we don't follow your lingo very well!!