Us Army: black beret VS Soft cap

[jlanni]

ive been hearing alot of people saying that the united states army should switch from the black beret back to the regular "soft cap"

I personally think that they should switch back because it was one of the unique identifyers of our military... i think... pretty much all european militarys have the baret..along with that i think that every one haveing the baret in the army is striping the special forces of their pride... they had the black beret long before the chief of staff decided to make it the official amry head gear.... another reason i think it should go is because people dont even wear it right... NCO's and officers included

what is every one elses views on this?

[jlanni]

good point on the flash haha never thought of that one....

[Dmitri]

Yes, its true, but there aren't many people who actually wear beret on the ranges or in the field instead of kevlar or a cap, at least I haven't seen any.

another reason i think it should go is because people dont even wear it right... NCO's and officers included

How is that?

[jlanni]

the reason i say that is if you walk around the bases and look at the way some of the people wear the beret.. its not shaped right... half of them lok like they just ploped it on their head and said there we go

[Dmitri]

LOL. That actually is true. There are some bad examples, but there are not many of them. It also comes down to the personal preference, I don't know if there is any regulations of how to wear it.

[Apogee]

This is a common misconseption. When you're actually doing work, you're not going to see soldiers wearing their berets. Instead they'll be wearing a PC (patrol cap). This is camo and uses subdued brass in a tactical enviroment.

[Dmitri]

The SpecOps get enough pride and respect by wearing Tan and Green, or even Red berets for that matter. Nobody said they'll wear same berets as the regulars.

[jlanni]

negative scuba ... they dont even issue the BDU cap anymore... they only issue the bdu cap to REP63's (people that havent completed basic or ait. as to wearing the beret dimitri there is a proper way to wearit described in a manual that every one gets here ill quote it


the beret is worn so that the headband is streight across the forehead. 1 inch above the eyebrows. no hair may be visible on the fore head benrath the head band. the flash is positioned over the left eye, and excess material is draped over to the right ear, to at least the top of the ear, and no lower then the middle of the ear. a dip is formed in the wool directly behind the flash stiffiner,and a slight fold is formed to the right from of the flash.

so as you can see there is a very precise description on how to wear the beret

[ibstolidude]

The SpecOps get enough pride and respect by wearing Tan and Green, or even Red berets for that matter. Nobody said they'll wear same berets as the regulars.

Maroon perhaps?
:oops:

wearing a beret sucks..it should be avoided at all times..
cotton + tight + heat = suck (especially if you actually have hair)

we have not even talked about shaving, cuting the lining/flash backing, and shaping...what a turd.

[buckeyedoc]

I think Pvt. Murphy said it best. Click on the link below.

http://www.paratrooper.net/aotw/PvtMurphy/weekly.asp?fileid=111

Thanks to Pvt. Murphy http://www.pvtmurphy.com and Paratrooper.net http://www.paratrooper.net

[Apogee]

So I guess they all wear their black beret during ranger school after finishing IOBC? Yeah, I don't think so. The BDU cap is often worn in tactical enviroments where a helmet is not optimal or when doing work where the beret wouldn't make sence. Ask your brother about CPTs and MAJs wearing BDU caps at Camp Buckner.


In addition, if you recieved your BDU cover during Basic, there wouldn't be a need to issue them at any other point b/c you would have received yours. Not trying to start a flame war, just want to setcha straight.

[jlanni]

true never thought of that scuba lol

[Uncle Sam]

Oh man, don't get me started...I wore my beret with pride. It was a mark of distinction between you and the "regular" army troops. It seperates those who want to go the extra mile and do more than the average joe. It seperates the Best from the Rest. If you wanna be the Best, then you can try and "Earn" a beret. If you wanna be the Rest, then you can wear a BDU cap, or something else. The reason they changed it to everyone in the army wearing one, is because the distinction was causing problems. Like a "we are better than they are" attitude (An army of one) and all...I "Earned" mine, so should everyone else!

This is kinda one sided, but what can I say..I'm partial to my beret.

ibstolidude wrote:
wearing a beret sucks..it should be avoided at all times..
cotton + tight + heat = suck (especially if you actually have hair)

we have not even talked about shaving, cuting the lining/flash backing, and shaping...what a turd. Shame...Shame!!!! Not to be mean..but this is someone who wants to be the "Rest"

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

berets are cool for special forces and pictures and ceremonies but not during combat. do they only use boonies for jungle operations or hot weather enviroments

[Jack Mehoff]

I hate the ****ing beret. It's not even comfortable wearing the sucker and it can't protect you from direct sunlight and cold.

'nuff say

[Beowulf]

ibstolidude wrote:
wearing a beret sucks..it should be avoided at all times..
cotton + tight + heat = suck (especially if you actually have hair)

we have not even talked about shaving, cuting the lining/flash backing, and shaping...what a turd. Shame...Shame!!!! Not to be mean..but this is someone who wants to be the "Rest"

AHHAHAHHAHA!!! that's hilarious

[martinexsquaddie]

Ha HA HA none of your muppets know how to wear a Berat anyway :P
Rip the lining out the put it in alternative bowls of Hot and cold water so it shrinks and SHAPE IT.
chances our the pentagon skimped and brought cheapo Berats so there fall apart :( At least the US special forces aka Green Berats smeem to have learned how to wear them rather than the odd way they used to wear them :P

[perdurabo]

In Polish army black beret is for tank crews standart hut for Army is "rogatywka"
fu* i can't paste an image in here :/

[aktarian]

I agree that barets should be reserved for "elite". Red/maroon for airborne (or blue for Russian airborne), green for SF and maybe blue for naval "elite".

[ibstolidude]

Ha HA HA none of your muppets know how to wear a Berat anyway :P
Rip the lining out the put it in alternative bowls of Hot and cold water so it shrinks and SHAPE IT.
chances our the pentagon skimped and brought cheapo Berats so there fall apart :( At least the US special forces aka Green Berats smeem to have learned how to wear them rather than the odd way they used to wear them :P


we have not even talked about shaving, cuting the lining/flash backing, and shaping...what a turd. - hmmm I wonder what that was written for then?




ibstolidude wrote:
wearing a beret sucks..it should be avoided at all times..
cotton + tight + heat = suck (especially if you actually have hair)

we have not even talked about shaving, cuting the lining/flash backing, and shaping...what a turd. Shame...Shame!!!! Not to be mean..but this is someone who wants to be the "Rest"

AHHAHAHHAHA!!! that's hilarious
BEO,
HEY That is good isn't it!!!

I guess I just want to be the rest. LOL. I cannot tell you how many times down range I have heard people tell me how lucky it is that we arrived with shapely berets. This is the same kinda people that set off my pet peeve and bitch about the wearng the black fleece top or think we'd have had that whole Afghanistan thing licked if everyone wore a proper uniform.

@ RIP-CORD - I say "the beret sucks."
hot, tight
functionless, serves only the purpose of showmanship a theory I despise. (might be fine for you but not for me)
makes my head look like resevior tip for a condom
accentuates longer hair looking less proffessional
period that's my opinion...if you want distinction try wearing a fuc-ing peacock hat for attention...
EVERYONE wears the beret in the army these days...maybe that's why I choose softcap :roll:
if you like the beret, fine...if others like theirs, fine..have pride in your unit and your hat (if you so desire) but don't try and knock those you don't know simply because they don't like their unit's headgear (which has never been black)..

but I wouldn't boast about others military accomplishments or unit because they choose actions over appearance as the defining criteria of worth - and I still hated/hate my beret, but hey that's just me...if another feels pride when he puts on his good for him, I hope it renews his spirit.

And the whole black beret thing..I still think it was a kick at Rangers..myself not having been one cannot comment on their personal feelings of this... I would not want to be apart of a theft of their legacy, as the ex Regimental Rangers in my unit called it....fortunately I've never been/will never be in a unit that is assigned the new beret. hmmm RIPCORD perhaps I too have a funky rooster hat (as a kid once called it at an airshow).

[NcDeuce]

Berets should be earned, not issued. Gen. Shinseki, you bastard!

[NcDeuce]

I don't see many paratroopers wearing the maroon beret...do they just wear it on special occasions? All the 101st guys wear black. My dad got his beret at Benning a long time ago, earned not issued. He has a freakin' rainbow of berets downstairs. But yeah, the only ones I see with maroon here are the 160th SOAR guys. Can someone enlighten me?

[ibstolidude]

The 101st is an Airborne Division not on jump status - certainly they have elements that ARE on jump status.

the maroon beret is authorized for:
units with abn designation in there MTOE active and reserve
AD advisors to those units NG and reserve
AbBN departments of the infantry and QM schools
LRSd designated as airborne
Spec Ops Reqruiting Command ,USARC
982d Combat Camera
...I may have missed one or 2, best I can recall.

but, I would imagine that you would see many in various SOF (non SF) roles and support units on jump status wearing the Maroon.

The beret is the basic headgear in garrison environements (which is the reason I HATE the thing).
Go to a post like FBNC and a black beret appears a minority compared to the Maroon beret.

It is my understanding that the AA coded units (MPs also) are authorized to wear bloused boots in A's/B's, but wear the black beret...if this is no longer correct please advise.

[Trigger]

What do all your hi-speed friends wear?

sorry, couldn't resist. :D

[ibstolidude]

Who me...?

I have no friends.

[Trigger]

No stoli, I was kidding with TF160SOAR, but I'll be your friend if you buy me a beer. :D

[ibstolidude]

I'm always good for the first round...and usually the last 10 as at that point I lack the realization I am going broke.

[Beowulf]

Who me...?

I have no friends.

I think he meant tf160thsoar....
and it was funny
-b

[James]

I have a question about berets for Rangers. DOes everyone assigned to the 75th wear the sand colored beret, or is that only for thos wearing the tab? If you are an 18 y.o. PFC who's finished RIP, but not Ranger School, which beret do you wear?

Please advise.

[BMF]

a part of the reason we switched over to wearing the beret when in garrison is that the majority of our allies wear them. when our guys walked into joint hq's with their PC's on, it was rather like coming in with a boonie on or something. yeaa i know it's dumb as hell but thats the stated reason as far as gen. shinseki explained it.

also as far as PC's not being worn anymore, thats pure bs. my last psg was just out of the ranger regt, they were pc's on long-range patrols until they got fairly close to the target, at which point the k-pot went on.

drive on

[Uncle Sam]

ibstolidude wrote:
@ RIP-CORD - I say "the beret sucks."
hot, tight
functionless, serves only the purpose of showmanship a theory I despise. (might be fine for you but not for me)
makes my head look like resevior tip for a condom
accentuates longer hair looking less proffessional
period that's my opinion...if you want distinction try wearing a fuc-ing peacock hat for attention...
EVERYONE wears the beret in the army these days...maybe that's why I choose softcap
if you like the beret, fine...if others like theirs, fine..have pride in your unit and your hat (if you so desire) but don't try and knock those you don't know simply because they don't like their unit's headgear (which has never been black)..

but I wouldn't boast about others military accomplishments or unit because they choose actions over appearance as the defining criteria of worth - and I still hated/hate my beret, but hey that's just me...if another feels pride when he puts on his good for him, I hope it renews his spirit.

And the whole black beret thing..I still think it was a kick at Rangers..myself not having been one cannot comment on their personal feelings of this... I would not want to be apart of a theft of their legacy, as the ex Regimental Rangers in my unit called it....fortunately I've never been/will never be in a unit that is assigned the new beret. hmmm RIPCORD perhaps I too have a funky rooster hat (as a kid once called it at an airshow).

You missed my point. I was not trying to "dis" you because you don't like the beret. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You obviously took offense. If you read on you will see that I partially agree with you. The beret is NOT meant for everyone. People do not like it. You are one of those people. I personally DO like it. That's why I said it was for the "Rest". It IS hot, it IS tight... I totally agree. But functionless...I don't agree. The function of it is that it does seperate those of us who took the extra step in our military career. The beret is a symbol of excellence in ones ability. You obviously had to do more than the average joe to get it. The beret does not make the soldier....of course not. But it does say..I am part of an elite...I took the extra steps to better myself as a soldier...Does that make it wrong to boast...I don't think so. So if you really don't want to wear it...Tell all your friends who feel the same, your mom, your dad, their freinds etc..to write your congressman, because the people who DO want it (Airborne, Ranger, SF, CCT, whoever)will appreciate it. We obviously agree to disagree..and that fine...But when worn properly, and again i'm not dissin' you, you wrote it yourself, You look good in it. Not like a resevior tip for a condom or a funky rooster hat. You must wear it correctly..period.

[Uncle Sam]

TF160SOAR wrote:

I don't see many paratroopers wearing the maroon beret...do they just wear it on special occasions? All the 101st guys wear black. My dad got his beret at Benning a long time ago, earned not issued. He has a freakin' rainbow of berets downstairs. But yeah, the only ones I see with maroon here are the 160th SOAR guys. Can someone enlighten me?

They wear the beret in garrison, never in the woods... I was in the 82nd so I would say that this is true. I also was issued a patrol cap. I wore it all through Ranger school. They also wear the patrol cap on certain duty, sometimes no headgear. Now I got out in 97, so things might've changed some.

[Uncle Sam]

James wrote:

I have a question about berets for Rangers. DOes everyone assigned to the 75th wear the sand colored beretYES


or is that only for thos wearing the tab?
I dont believe so.


If you are an 18 y.o. PFC who's finished RIP, but not Ranger School, which beret do you wear?
I think you will be wearing a patrol cap.

You can double check on these but, to my knowledge, it's acurate

[ibstolidude]

because the people who DO want it (Airborne, Ranger, SF, CCT, whoever)will appreciate it. We obviously agree to disagree..and that fine

certainly we can disagree, nothing wrong with that.
...I disagree with much that the "reg" has done for years, but that means little. And the beret for all units is one of those things I disagree with ..
BUT I fall into this catagory of "I've earned mine(Airborne, Ranger, SF, CCT, whoever - as you wrote it)" ...I still don't like it...although I will grant you it look better than a **** cap in classs A's. And certainly they should not remove the beret (non leg units) as many people really like it, and who am I to remove the traditions ; BUT that does not change my opinion of it sucking as a headgear, and the fact that for over 10 years I struggled to avoid wearing it (ofcourse I also avoided garrison and formations ALL costs.)

onthe non ABN/SOF units getting the black beret:
I just think that our Army fights so much better now that they spent all that money and energy on giving leg units a beret. It was a much better idea than say improving training quality and increasing MTOE updates.. :roll:

The only way they could have wasted more money would have been on CARC paint and NBC crap.

Too much focus on garnish not enough focus on the meal - but that is an often found bane of the reg army.

but that is 'off' topic of my I hate beret's rant.

[Beowulf]

I just don't like the regular army.....what's wrong with CARC paint???!!
-b

[Shardik]

[quote="ibstolidude I just think that our Army fights so much better now that they spent all that money and energy on giving leg units a beret. It was a much better idea than say improving training quality and increasing MTOE updates.. :roll:

The only way they could have wasted more money would have been on CARC paint and NBC crap.

Too much focus on garnish not enough focus on the meal - but that is an often found bane of the reg army.
.[/quote]

Absolutely right. Gen. Shinseki thought yet another piece of useless clothing issue would substitute for better training, more range time or even helmets that actually stop bullets. How much did we spend on giving everyone in the Army a new black dress hat? How much do we spend every year on changes to the clothing issue (and the Class A still looks like crap). The Marines have a new BDU that actualy works. The Army won't go to it because it "would damage morale". Morale didn't stop them from giving the Rangers' beret to every Swinging Richard did it? :fork:

[walford]

http://www.militarycorruption.com/bubbaberets.htm

ANATOMY OF A $CAM - CLINTON'S LAST REVENGE ON THE MILITARY


...Toward the end of his second term in office, Bill "I loathe the military" Clinton decided to "rub" the Armed forces' nose "in it" one more time, and make a financial killing in the process.

So Bubba gets on the "hotline" to Shinseki, a charter member of his Pentagon "knee-pad brigade," and says: "Erik, you remember who put you where you are, don't you? And you remember who backed you when you came up with that crazy plan of yours to mothball our tanks and switch to wheeled-vehicles? Boy, my pals in Beijing just loved that one!

"Well, I got to thinking about Monica the other night. You know, 'I did not have *** with that woman' Monica? Ah, those were the good old days!

"Anyway, I sure did like that black beret Monica wore. It looked so "cute" on her while she bobbed her head up and down under my desk.

"So, Erik, here's the plan. You decree the Army is switching to black berets as a "morale booster," when in effect, it achieves the exact opposite.

I'll make sure the contracts go to my buddies in Communist China. I sure do appreciate all those contributions during my 1996 re-election campaign.

"Oh, I'll throw a piece of it to an Arkansas company. But the other American apparel manufacturers - screw them! So what if the Chicoms charge us seven bucks a beret, when American workers can do it a lot cheaper. No, you just issue the order, general, and to hell with Ranger pride and tradition. Serves the bastards right for voting for Bush! I haven't forgotten the 'booing' I got on that aircraft carrier. You see, Erik, I STILL 'loathe' the military...

Wolfowitz and Shinseki being grilled by reporters about the Black Berets - priceless!

Special Briefing on Army Headgear
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2001/t03162001_t316dsda.html

The Latest on the Black Beret They call it "The Big Lie".
http://www.rangerblackberet.com/

http://www.rangerblackberet.com/images/markwell.gif