the last Starfighter

[easyand]

After a carrer of 40 years,the last F104 flying in italy (here in a cerimony in Belgium):
:petting:

http://www.aviopress.com/images/20041028_KleineBrogel_spillone17.jpg

http://www.aviopress.com/images/20041028_KleineBrogel_spillone12.jpg

http://www.aviopress.com/images/20041028_KleineBrogel_spillone10.jpg

http://www.aviopress.com/images/20041028_KleineBrogel_spillone9.jpg

http://www.aviopress.com/images/20041028_KleineBrogel_spillone1.jpg

[littlefrench]

Not really a good plane, Germany lost 20 pilots only for training with this plane. :(

[b.scheller]

wow...italians are passionate people...they even give the stunner to a plane...mind you its only the pinky (for the arse)

rofl

i'm kiddin...Canada replaced those quite a while ago with CF-18's which are falling apart as well (perhaps its our climate) its quite remarkable that Italian pilots would get into those, especially after so many hours and years of operation.

Sorry, I shouldnt be so negative. Awesome pics, and thanks

[easyand]

i'm kiddin...Canada replaced those quite a while ago with CF-18's which are falling apart as well (perhaps its our climate) its quite remarkable that Italian pilots would get into those, especially after so many hours and years of operation.



We were waiting for Eurofighter, that had to enter in service in 1996 but......arrived in 2003 :cantbeli:

[ShadowNeo]

lol, reminds me of a movie I saw when I was younger:

http://www.itsonlyamovie.co.uk/COVERS%203/THE%20LAST%20STARFIGHTER.jpg

That rock-faced guy was such a prick in it.

[mi35d]

Actually, it was a rather good aircraft overall. Extremely high performance for the time period when it was built and it remained so well into the 80's. Accident rate was high for Germany but that was supposedly attributed to extra equipment, stores, etc. placed on the airframe. (Not lack of skill from the pilots, just made for a more unforgiving aircraft under high speed moves.)

[ValkXB70]

It was a good aircraft, but it's high speed and short wings made it very unforgiving. Hence the reason why alot of pilots (in all countries who operated it) died during training. I mean come on they didn't call it the "Widow Maker" for nothing.

[b.scheller]

btw...that was the worst movie ive seen in a while...

[ShadowNeo]

yeah, I mean that guy in the starship car - wtf?!?!

[aartamen]

Did not half of all Harriers produced crashed?

[Zoomie]

Great pics! It's a really nice plane especially with that paint scheme.

[Deep6]

I liked the Last Starfighter (back in the day).
Might have to view it again to realize how stupid it is (was)?
(Why do most movies get get worse with time)??

[AFACadet]

Just saw the movie again a few days ago. It funny how much I rememberd it from when I watched it back in the day.

[Rantanplan]

Not really a good plane, Germany lost 20 pilots only for training with this plane. :(

Germany lost 229 Starfighters, 110 Pilots died (50 Marineflieger).


Worst plane ever.

[littlefrench]

ok excuse me for the mistake RIP to all pilots who die with this very bad aircraft. Recently an german officier said that the Mirage III would have been a better choice for Luftwaffe.

[Rantanplan]

All military experts in germany wanted the Mirage I. But the fat bavarian nazi defence-minister Franz Josef Strauß wanted a plane that could carry nuclear weapons. The Americans promised him that they will give him some Nukes if he buys the Starfighter so he took this piece of ****.

Franz Josef Strauß

http://www.stefanjacob.de/Geschichte/Bilder/Strauss1.jpg

The worst German besides Hitler

[Freibier]

Yep!

[Deuterium]

What's that noise????? Oh it's Kelly rolling in his grave....

http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/k006.jpg

P-38 Lightning
F-80 Shooting Star
F-94 Starfire
F-104 Starfighter
U2
SR-71 Blackbird
C-130 Hercules
T-33 trainer
P2V Neptune

[big_les]

As I understand it the Starfighter was a very capable interceptor (of Soviet bomber types), but like the British Lightning it was basically a rocket ship not designed for low-speed maneouvrability outside of sitting behind a Bear firing cannon shells at it. As it happens the Lightning happened to be quite capable as a dogfighter, whilst the stub wings of the 104 restricted it to a greater degree.

Not wishing to cast aspertions on German pilots but was the Starfighter not the first current type the Luftwaffe had been allowed to operate? In addition the training for it was supplied by the US, and there's no substitute for in-service training.

[tomcat1974]

Lot's of wrong stuff said and many miths ...
German experience was a bad one. The German pilots where considere by USAF personal a little bit crazyy doing all the time low level fast flights. That was the main cause for the crashes. That and the weather in germany ... It is not wise to do low level in the fog or rain , but german pilots did it.. and payed for it. They where trained to do that in Arizona. Now something tell me that weather in Arizona is not the same as in Germany. Baisscaly germans used it as Penetration fighter-bomber... Yes Nuke retaliation plane. When all the **** hit the fan in Fulda gap the F104 would had went downtown DDR and nuke the hell out of tanks concentrations.
Don't blame the plane. Despite the german experience, the other countries had a lot better experiecnes with it.
Spain had F104 for 7 years,without a single incident. Now what that tell's you?
Also Italy had good experience with it.

Someone said that it was a interceptor. Well it could handle easilly the the new F15A when that got in USAF usage . Same did the F102 :) ... true in this case I am talking about Pilots that had 10 or more years experience on those types . :) So is the man , not the machine :).

[Kilgor]

"In many quarters, the F-104 has the unenviable reputation of being a difficult and dangerous aircraft to fly, an aircraft with unforgiving handling characteristics. Certainly, it has had an appallingly poor safety record in use with some air forces but a relatively good one in others. In fairness, the record seems to suggest that the aircraft can be flown with reasonable safety if the pilots are properly trained and the aircraft is maintained and flown strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. Apparently, however, the aircraft can be terribly unforgiving of any departure from these recommended procedures."

from FAS.

If germans really wanted a aircraft to kill themselves they should have bought the concord ;)

[ThereTheyCome]

DONT EVER INSULT NO BAVARIANS CAUSE THEY WILL TAKE YOUR BMW BACK!!!

[tenda]

in italy work's very well...!!!!!!! :P

[Loco]

I remember reading here a thread about Starfighters with many pictures, it was interesting. Of what I read, my conclusions were that Starfighter was a very innovative jet in its time, it entered in service in the early 60s but its more similitar to fighters of today than the old planes of the 50s that were flying when Starfighter was realeased. I like Starfighter, it´s like a pencil with little wings, very agressive, and specially that red Starfighter with the caballino of Ferrari.
Edited: About accidents and F-104, spanish pilots scored the world record of flying without accidents, 10.000 hours of flight in Starfighters, no problems with that plane here, and not only that but "spanish" F-104 were sold to Turkey and Greece and I´ve just found they were retired few time ago, so this planes flew near 40 years. Btw, Spain bought too Mirage III, a very good plane too but different of F-104, no problems with that plane in Spain. As it seems, the background and the training of pilots were fundamental in accidents with F-104. What I can´t understand is why german MoD permited so many accidents before stopping flights and doing a deep reasearch, it breaks many myths about Germany, in other country it would be enough with 6 or 7 accidents in short time for having destitutions and researching planes machinary and pilots instructions. 110 pilots dead is a catastrophe!
http://www.ejercitodelaire.mde.es/(G)Publicaciones/Paginas_Web_Internet/InetFiUdWeb.nsf/0/e5fe1eb352076f6fc1256c37004d6b17?OpenDocument

[littlefrench]

If germans really wanted a aircraft to kill themselves they should have bought the concord ;)

Shut up please you're ridiculous.

[Group9]

The F104's were squirrely. Chuck Yeager, the man who broke the sound barrier, almost bit it in a highly modified F104, the only plane he ever had to eject from because he couldn't recover it.