THE Israeli Air Force with the Luftwaffe

[UoUo]

http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/3f73d3ce633a8359.jpg



http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_18.jpg



http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_16.jpg



woot

[Rantanplan]

He?

[UoUo]

He?


?

[Macs.]

More Pics...
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_05.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_06.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_07.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_11.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_13.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_14.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_17.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_18.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_02.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_10.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_19.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_09.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_01.jpg
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_20.jpg
p-)

[aeternum]

This was an expercie at Decimomannu AFB on the island of Sardinia/Italy. This was the last "action" the MIG29 have seen in the german luftwaffe, as they will get replaced by the new Eurofigther.

aet

[IDFM203]

great pitures..............oh and the israeli's beat the germans in mock arial battles....


Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise

The Associated Press Sep. 22, 2003
Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.

The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar margins, the officials added.

Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing its own locally made systems into the aircraft.

The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of Sardinia in Italy.

Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies. Recently, Germany sold for a symbolic fee three advanced "Dolphin" submarines to Israel.

Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and Turkey recently.


(this is a military forum site so if flaming begins please keep it on military matters for that article is strictly related to that and not aginst the german people or nation...........shalom!!)

[MolliG]

When the Typhoon comes into service, all the MiGs are going to Poland arn't they?

[Herrmannek]

Yup.

[Rantanplan]

@UoUo

Sorry, I thought that we already gave our Migs away.
I its a Shame!!! The Mig 29 was the fu..ing best Fighter we had.
The EuroFighter is a piece of ****.

[Fargin]

IAF Pilots knows their sh!t.

[REMOV]

When the Typhoon comes into service, all the MiGs are going to Poland arn't they? Not exactly - the first five German MiGs should be symbolically seized about... hmm... let's say just now. At 16.00 (CET or GMT+2) in Laage Airbase near Rostock begins the ceremony of receiving those fighters, with participation of Polish and German Secretaries of Defence Mr. Jerzy Szmajdzinski and Mr. Peter Struck. The last of 23 German MiG-29's should fly to Poland in July 2004.

http://www.rzeczpospolita.pl/teksty/wydanie_030927/ekonomia_a_4-1.jpg

[ISF]

did u guys haved nocited that the israeli's in the group photo are the only ones with their hands up and all the rest are serious... :)

[Rantanplan]

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/I_01.jpg

Is this a German Phantom? :oops:

[aeternum]

Is this a German Phantom? :oops:

Yes from JG 71 'Richthofen'. But dont worry, the will get replaced by EF2000 too.

[aeternum]

@UoUo

Sorry, I thought that we already gave our Migs away.
I its a Shame!!! The Mig 29 was the fu..ing best Fighter we had.
The EuroFighter is a piece of ****.

You kiddin? The Mig29 is nice, but it isnt state-of-the-art anymore. The EF2000 will be a huge improvement. It is considered the best jet until the F22 hits the market.

[aeternum]

great pitures..............oh and the israeli's beat the germans in mock arial battles....

(this is a military forum site so if flaming begins please keep it on military matters for that article is strictly related to that and not aginst the german people or nation...........shalom!!)

Why should we start flaming? Is this what do you expect? Well all i can say, the purpose of these kinda exercises is to learn from eachother not to "beat" anyone. I dont know why you need to point this out.

We all know the IAF is a top airforce, a small one but really skilled. In fact thats their only chance, because they wont be able to outnumber anyone, so they need the skill.

[aeternum]

Recently, Germany sold for a symbolic fee three advanced "Dolphin" submarines to Israel.

Ohh well, i really dont know whats the problem is with my government.... They sold all Mig29 to poland for a symbolic fee of 1 Euro each, now i have to read they did sell Dolphins for a symbolic fee too. Not to mention those heavy equipment they gonna sell to Lettland ..... This is what i do call a waste of money!

[IDFM203]

great pitures..............oh and the israeli's beat the germans in mock arial battles....

(this is a military forum site so if flaming begins please keep it on military matters for that article is strictly related to that and not aginst the german people or nation...........shalom!!)

Why should we start flaming? Is this what do you expect? Well all i can say, the purpose of these kinda exercises is to learn from eachother not to "beat" anyone. I dont know why you need to point this out.

We all know the IAF is a top airforce, a small one but really skilled. In fact thats their only chance, because they wont be able to outnumber anyone, so they need the skill.Well based on experience on this forum, unfortunately I had expected some flaming. I am happy that it hasn’t happened (yet).

I agree with what you said and yes both are there to learn from each other (well actually one is there to learn from the other but that is a whole other military debate)

I pointed this out for this is a military forum after all. And that was a military matter. Again not an insult to any people or any nation.

Shalom!!

[IDFM203]

now i have to read they did sell Dolphins for a symbolic fee too.

Just a little correction. Only two out of three of them were for that symbolic fee. Israel outright purchased the third one.

[aeternum]

well actually one is there to learn from the other

I assume you meant the germans are there to learn from the IAF? Well sorry to dissappoint you, but JG 73 'Steinhoff' is the only western squadron which does fly the legendary Mig29, so every airforce is eager to train with them. To train our pilots, well we use other resources.

Anyway, get rid of this godsend attitute. Doesnt make you look smart.

With THE ISRAELI Air Force in Sardinia, read more:
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/index_e.html

[Argyll]

It's pretty well known that the Israeli Airforce is top notch and well respected amongst the Airforce Brethern,I'm sure I read somewhere that they went to the US to cross train and ,thrashed the US Top Guns on their own turff!!
Do they have any "C" versions of the F15,or are they all the older "A" models?I know they have the F15I(Ra'am?)

[perdurabo]

Hey MiG29 are badass:D
what they need is avionics change radars weponary systems etc maybe new engines
tehy will be in good hands :hug:
BTW Poland now is buying F16C/D.

My Israelis friend i saw some Lavi photos what happend to this program? i've heard that chinese new fighter(J10 or smth like that) is based upon Lavi?

[UoUo]

Hey MiG29 are badass:D
what they need is avionics change radars weponary systems etc maybe new engines
tehy will be in good hands :hug:
BTW Poland now is buying F16C/D.

My Israelis friend i saw some Lavi photos what happend to this program? i've heard that chinese new fighter(J10 or smth like that) is based upon Lavi?

Lavi ? he cost to much money....and the US stop the aid money for the Lavi...





http://www.iaf.co.il/sip_storage/files/1/16091.jpg


http://www.iaf.co.il/sip_storage/files/9/16099.jpg

[/img]

[IDFM203]

well actually one is there to learn from the other

I assume you meant the germans are there to learn from the IAF? Well sorry to dissappoint you, but JG 73 'Steinhoff' is the only western squadron which does fly the legendary Mig29, so every airforce is eager to train with them. To train our pilots, well we use other resources.

Anyway, get rid of this godsend attitute. Doesnt make you look smart.

With THE ISRAELI Air Force in Sardinia, read more:
http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/index_e.html
Ok now we have another one.. where do I have a "godsend" or chosen people attitude?!? Its only you guys insinuating that about us.

No, I simply am proud of the Israeli air force plain and simple.

Now you going to your stereotypes or misconceptions is certainly not making you look an bright here.


I see you took it personally…………grow up!!! This is a military forum where we discuss, brag, ask, challenge, everything that’s to do with the military and military matters.

I didnt say Israel beat Germany or that’s its nation is better or anything like that.

Geeeeeeeez……….

[Argyll]

IDFm203,
Then can we leave all the political stuff out of it,then I know you're just responding to comments,but the more you keep with the party line the more it opens up the crap that has been flying around this forum lately.
Everybody has the right of reply but sometimes not saying anything is the best form of reply if you get what I mean?
This whole Israel v's Europe v's USA is getting very tiresome,and is detracting what this site is all about ...........there's just too much anti everbody here now,and poor old Hood has to sift through all this mess and try and get back on track.
About a month back some guys from SOCNET came along and started giving it large,man you cannot win arguments with pre pubescent kids!!

[IDFM203]

IDFm203,
Then can we leave all the political stuff out of it,then I know you're just responding to comments,but the more you keep with the party line the more it opens up the crap that has been flying around this forum lately.
Everybody has the right of reply but sometimes not saying anything is the best form of reply if you get what I mean?
This whole Israel v's Europe v's USA is getting very tiresome,and is detracting what this site is all about ...........there's just too much anti everbody here now,and poor old Hood has to sift through all this mess and try and get back on track.
About a month back some guys from SOCNET came along and started giving it large,man you cannot win arguments with pre pubescent kids!!Yes its is tiresome so how about you stop it as well. I have responded to a few of your comments as well.

I am not giving a party line. I say what I have seen and experienced unlike what you argue with what "you have read somewhere" or "seen somewhere"

Now as for this thread. there is no part line. In Arial dogfights Israel beat the German air force. That is all. Nothing more or nothing less.

Shalom!!

[Argyll]

Seen and experineced.............hey mate,you're talking to the wrong guy cause I've BTDT!!
Look we all know how good the IDF/IAF is,but everytime someone posts something ,you disagree with it,unless it's for the good of your Military,and I know you argue with me all the time,I like it and so must you,because the fact that you respond to my posts,rather than ignore them !!
Any way you never answered my Question relating to the "C" model F15!!!!!

[spier]

Now as for this thread. there is no part line. In Arial dogfights Israel beat the German air force. That is all. Nothing more or nothing less.

Shalom!!A few out-dated German F4's and MiG29's piloted by people who have never flown a real combat sortie in their lives were beaten by battle experienced Israeli pilots flying F15's?

This is noteworthy because?

[IDFM203]

Seen and experineced.............hey mate,you're talking to the wrong guy cause I've BTDT!!
Look we all know how good the IDF/IAF is,but everytime someone posts something ,you disagree with it,unless it's for the good of your Military,and I know you argue with me all the time,I like it and so must you,because the fact that you respond to my posts,rather than ignore them !!
Any way you never answered my Question relating to the "C" model F15!!!!!Hey your right I haven’t felt the need to ignore you yet. So I guess I do enjoy getting it on with you. :D :bash:

I always will disagree with something that I feel to be wrong and not truthful, period!!

When I say experience I don’t mean your personal experience in you own country or what not. I am talking specifically with regards to personal experience in the israeli/palastinian conflict of which you comment a lot on and where you dont have much personal experience with.

As for the "c" model I am not in the air force so I don’t really know every detail about its happenings. I don’t know the answer to your question..

[IDFM203]

Now as for this thread. there is no part line. In Arial dogfights Israel beat the German air force. That is all. Nothing more or nothing less.

Shalom!!A few out-dated German F4's and MiG29's piloted by people who have never flown a real combat sortie in their lives were beaten by battle experienced Israeli pilots flying F15's?

This is noteworthy because?ok its not newsworthy but it does belong on a military forum which is what this is.

boy it seems alot of you have lost sight of that.

[baimer]

Do they have any "C" versions of the F15,or are they all the older "A" models?I know they have the F15I(Ra'am?)
What is F-15C?? Israel recieve F-15I since 1998, it's a masterpiece in F-15 series.

The Lavi program was shut down by americans. But it was too late. I mean it was about 10 billion americans dollars too late. :lol: USA sponsored israeli Lavi development from the very beginning. But finally they had realised that they are investing money in direct competitor to the American F-16. And israelis said in some point that they have intentions to export Lavi to the USA and third countries'. rofl

[Argyll]

Now there you go a post replied with civility added to it.
:D
Yes I know you post about your experiences in your wars,but there is nobody other than fellow Israeli's who can corroborate your facts,and hence the reason why we the ignorant quote various other sources and facts,including media outlets,is so that you're arguments are not all one sided............I mean lets face it you're highly unlikey to have the Palestinians browse here are you......................... ;) mainly cause you smashed all their PC;s when you bulldozed their homes!!,and cut off their electricity!! :D

[Argyll]

Baimer,
The "C" model has upgraded Electronics,Radar and has I believe 3 CRT displays,instead of 1 like the "A" model,it also has better engines too.
It is the current USAF Air Superiority Fighter

[IDFM203]

Now there you go a post replied with civility added to it.
:D
Yes I know you post about your experiences in your wars,but there is nobody other than fellow Israeli's who can corroborate your facts,and hence the reason why we the ignorant quote various other sources and facts,including media outlets,is so that you're arguments are not all one sided............I mean lets face it you're highly unlikey to have the Palestinians browse here are you......................... ;) mainly cause you smashed all their PC;s when you bulldozed their homes!!,and cut off their electricity!! :DWell I always say my facts after you post your propaganda

Yeah like I said before I would love to hear from a Palestinian. At least I know that he is experiencing the conflict as well as me unlike you armchair generals (with regards to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict)

Ok just to show how civil I am now. I will let you get away with you last comment. ( I mean you know I have plenty to say to dispute that) :bash:

[baimer]

What?! Americans have something better than we do! :( I hope they will give it to us as a Christmas gift. For not killing or expelling Yasir. ;)

[Argyll]

Now you see IDF if you'd care to look at the smiley Icon at the start of the post,it was sarcasm,but I can see your ready to go off on a tangent again!!.
Propaganda.............works both ways my friend,and for every "fact" you post,where does it come from?...........yep Israeli resources which oddly enough are ...................................propaganda!!

Yes Baimer at the moment they do,but needless to say that's not a problem if your pilots are better!! ;)

[baimer]

Being a good fighter is important. But managing tactical warfare system is much more important during combat. And I don't know if any army in the world who can compete with USArmy in that field.

[Kitsune]

First: German pilot training is first class. Second, I do not think that Israeli Fighter pilots haver that more experience when it comes to dogfights (against whom? Iraqi pilots?) Third: remember in the text it was stated that American pilots have been beaten by Israeli pilots by a similar margin. (That must be it...American and German training are closely intertwined...its all the Americans fault !!!! :lol: Just kidding)

The Mig29 is a bit outdated especially as far as electronics is concerned. But it is a good fighter, very nimble it is said. Western pilots love to train against it, because it is an aircraft American, British, Israeli foes are likely to have.

It is all about learning from each other...to improve yourself. This time the Israeli pilots did better. So what? No reason to feel offended, thats life: Sometimes you catch the bear and sometimes the bear catches you...

Next time those air forces train together again a new game is on p-) .


But I really love those photos. And they show that we have left our past behind us.


;)

[Kitsune]

I just saw that aeternum said something similar...Ups :oops: ...
I thought about erasing my post...but the truth may as well be said for two times.

;)

[baimer]

Mig29 in German service? Very interesting, do germans improve it some how or use it as is? My guess is they are replacing all electronic device by something more "western" in order to use it properly.
I just realised that germans could recieve it from union with Ost Germany, is it so?

[He219]

The fist IAF aerial 'kill'....

http://www.101squadron.com/101real/assets/images/S199_pics/s1stkill.jpghttp://www.101squadron.com/101real/assets/images/People_pics/smodiRAF.jpg

Modi Alon downing one of two Egyptian Dakotas over Tel-Aviv June 3rd, 1948....





Flying the Messerschmitt, ahem, Czech 'Avia' S199, a 109 G-14 derivative with a Junkers Jumo 211F engine, dubbed the 'mule' (Mezek) by pilots the likes of Lou Lenart, Modi Alon, Ezer Weizman, Gideon Lichtman, Morris Mann, Lionel Bloch, Rudi Augartin, Sid Cohen, Bob Vickman, Bill Pomerantz and Eddie Cohen. Lichtman shot down a Spitfire over Rehovot two days later marking in the first IAF dogfight.

http://www.daniel-k.com/aviation/images/425x280/10036.jpg


Truly, the start of the IAF came with the Luftwaffe ;)

[aeternum]

Mig29 in German service? Very interesting, do germans improve it some how or use it as is? My guess is they are replacing all electronic device by something more "western" in order to use it properly.
I just realised that germans could recieve it from union with Ost Germany, is it so?

Yes the German Luftwaffe, Jagdgeschwader 73 has 24 Mig29 since 1996 from the NVA-Jagdgeschwader 3 in service. But they gonna be replaced starting Oct 2003 until July 2004 with 33 EF2000 Typhoon. Poland which will get all of our Mig29 got 3 of them today.

The last months/weeks the Mig29 were on a Farewall-tour to the USA. Here some pics:

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/Sadzu%200757k.jpg

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/FU15k.jpg

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/FU06k.jpg

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/Sadzu%200760k.jpg

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/images1/Alamo.jpg

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/images1/Archer.jpg


read more about it:
http://www.philippecolin.net/Fulcrum3.html

[He219]

Those last pic's are great! I bet those are some of the best maintained Fulcrums in the world.....

http://web.syr.edu/~eshpigel/mig-29_001128a.jpg

Some Video (http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/video.htm) Files for your enjoyment!

[REMOV]

Those last pic's are great! I bet those are some of the best maintained Fulcrums in the world...Hmm... you know the very first thing what Poles are going to do with this gift is to major overhaul about 10 of 23 Germans MiG's, so... ;)

[seventy6er]

you know the very first thing what Poles are going to do with this gift is to major overhaul about 10 of 23 Germans MiG's, so... ;)

the reason for the "major overhaul" is not the bad maintenance-status, but the simple fact, that the Luftwaffe did not invest into state-of-the-art electronics/etc.
Btw: why should the Luftwaffe have done so? They're getting 180+ brandnew Typhoons and every investment into the Fulcrums would've been bad spent money.

[perdurabo]

Ekhm MiG29 from Czech Rep. had fungus in fuel tanks and pipes :]
so its standard procedure to look is everything OK
PL now is not planning any big modifications on MIGs because lack of money:( but maybe they change their minds ...(they should but with big programs buying AMV F16 Spike ect they low on budget:()

[IDFM203]

Propaganda.............works both ways my friend,and for every "fact" you post,where does it come from?...........yep Israeli resources which oddly enough are ...................................propaganda!!

No, hers the point. a lot of what I say or my fellow Israelis say don’t come from any resources other then from what we have seen and experienced from our own eyes.

If you claim that everything is propaganda, surly that only goes as far as what one sees himself.. in other words if you quote something or I quote something, people from both sides can claim it to be propaganda.

Now if I say I saw and experienced something first hand you can’t call it propaganda all you can say is that I am lying (which in essence is what you are saying). Now you are insinuating that I am lying based on your propaganda. That is not proof of anything.


So in summary. a lot of what I say is based on what I saw firsthand and a lot of what you say is not.

Now of course it is hard for me to prove to you that what I saw is the truth and I guess on that you believe what you believe and I will believe what I saw.

shalom!! :D

[Vance]

SHUT THE HELL UP! NO ONE CARES!

[IDFM203]

SHUT THE HELL UP! NO ONE CARES!Hey Vance. Stop telling me to shut up in defending myself here. If you notice my post was in response to a post direct at me.

I don’t tell you to shut up so the least you can do is show me the same courtesy.

And if you are being non partial here (which it is clear that you are not) then you would tell those that are directing comments to me or ones about the Israeli / Palestinian conflict to shut up as well.

[Vance]

You stir up so much damn trouble on this board, maybe if you would shutup that wouldn't happen. Same with the other Isrealis on this board.

[Red]

My english was off kilter.

[IDFM203]

You stir up so much damn trouble on this board, maybe if you would shutup that wouldn't happen. Same with the other Isrealis on this board.………………..and for a second there I thought you were a non-objective observer here, I guess the “other (all or most) Israeli’s” comment put things clear for me. ;)

Yeah of course when we are responding to a subject it is we who is stirring things up. I mean in your eyes, it is not the ones who are making the provocative statements to begin with that we are responding to that is stirring the pot. Yeah really sane logic there. ;)

Oh yeah and I am responding. Go check, most of my posts have been in response. I am responding damit :bash: :bash:


Oh I see it coming another STFU from our resident cowboy here.........yeah well this time look first in the mirror before you shout that out again.

[Vance]

No, you come off as a smartass to people and that's why they respond to you. Like someone said a few pages back, drop the godsend attitude you have.

[IDFM203]

No, you come off as a smartass to people and that's why they respond to you. Like someone said a few pages back, drop the godsend attitude you have. Well firstly….. again, I am responding ( :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: ) to peoples smartass comments that are directed towards me. Like I have said before. I reserve the right to respond in kind. If you look back on my posts you will see that I have always responded in a tone that I was subjected to in the first place by others in that thread. Your clear double standard to ignore other people attitudes while pinning the problem solely at me really highlights to me the object bias I am facing here.

Secondly. My attitudes are respected and liked by a lot of people here (not just Israelis, I get a lot of IM and emails in support) so it is you and the usual suspects of antagonists that you find yourself in company with. Just like you couldn’t give two ****s how me or my fellow like minded mates feel so to I couldn’t give a **** how you are your ideologues feel about me. Notwithstanding my personal feelings, I will always defend Israel in cases where I see a clear and false bias against it

And lastly I never felt a godsend attitude. No, it is only you and someone else who has put that label on me. How typical to try to put that label on me to try to then squash it. I never said that nor implied that I deserve that label. It is truly a tireing and old not to mention, lame tactic that you guys have used. Frankly it doesn’t hold up any more. No, all I have done is to defend Israel in cases where there have been clear misrepresentations of the truth by people that have a clear bias to one side. that is not a godsend attitude by any stretch of the imagination.

The hypocritical attitude from you is where the real godsend title should be.

[Andyman]

maybe the german pilots would have done better if Goring was still the commander of the luftwaffe. ha ha rofl

by the way, the pics were very nice i enjoyed them thoroughly thanks :hug:

[aeternum]

Here is an article about US F16 exercising against the MIG29 from JG 73 back in 1995. (note: The MIG 29 didnt got any updates since then)

So much for "F15 beats MIG-29"...



http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1995/articles/jul_95/july2a_95.html

snippets:


...."If you define an F-16 as a third-generation fighter, it is not fair to speak of the MiG-29 as a third-generation aircraft because of its avionics"


The MiG-29's avionics are a shortcoming


"Our visibility is not as good as an F-16 or even an F-15, "We can't see directly behind us. We have to look out the side slightly to see behind us, which doesn't allow us to maintain a visual contact and an optimum lift vector at the same time."

[Vance]

Secondly. My attitudes are respected and liked by a lot of people here (not just Israelis, I get a lot of IM and emails in support) so it is you and the usual suspects of antagonists that you find yourself in company with.
:lol:


Secondly. My attitudes are respected and liked by a lot of people here (not just Israelis, I get a lot of IM and emails in support) so it is you and the usual suspects of antagonists that you find yourself in company with.
ok



Just like you couldn’t give two ****s how me or my fellow like minded mates feel so to I couldn’t give a **** how you are your ideologues feel about me.
Then why the long replies?



The hypocritical attitude from you is where the real godsend title should be.
Yeah, that's why I jump on any person who gets one fact of my military wrong, and that's why I post PAGES of annoying info no one cares about.

Beileve it or not, all this bickering about anything involving Isrealis or Palistenians started whn you guys came - almost every thread I see about anything involving Isreal has turned into a flame war and you guys are the main players. Either it's someone making a joke (which you take seriously) or someone makes a false statement and you BITE THEIR HEADS OFF. You don't have to be so crucial about everything :roll:

[IDFM203]

Listen I guess the only reason why I waste my time here with you sometimes is that I am somewhat a prisoner of my own siglines especially the one in red.

Hey you guys who made your first initial provocative statements and were only "joking", yeah it was always only a "joke". Heck our response was only a joke. Clam down no need to get pissed and tell me to STFU, I mean we are all "joking here"……..get it?!?

Boy you Texans don’t understand anything about international politics. I mean all of us were just “joking” or making "jokes".

Yeah "joking" rofl rofl rofl


oh and at least you admit that they also make false statements (lies). thats a good first step :D