Religion

[Haiw]

Allright, time for a 'new' topic....

Religion... it's almost as old as humanity (in all it's forms) and has been controlling most of history for quite a while now. Still today, millions (or i should say, billions) of people still pray every day, night, morning or whatsoever and find strength in their religion. Religion has for a lotta people always been a bright pole-star in dark times. However, on the other hand, religion (whether it be the sufferer's religion or someone elses religion) was also often the cause of those dark times. Historybooks are filled with wars that have their origins in religion, and still today, conflicts are going and / or starting over religion (think NI, lotsa places in Africa, Middle-East, East-Timor, etc.).

So, do you think humanity as a whole, when looking at all the troubles, but also considering all the good religion has caused over the past, whether we humans would be (or would have been) better off without religion?

The first one to drag this into a Israël-Palestina topic again gets a kick in the nuts, I'm talking all-time religion (conflicts) all over the world here, not just a small piece of oilless-sand that happens to have been a hotspot for the last 50 years

[Jooglae]

We all need something or somebody to believe in and depend on when in times of trying.

Although I'm not religious, I think it's done more good than bad.

All the religious conflicts of past years should be blamed on people who tried to take advantage of religions for their own benefits.

[warchild1/27scout]

i always thought it was going with the odds to believe in god. uh, lets see don't believe for 60 yrs. and live in hell for eternity. man, eternity is a long time. ;)

[GLax]

i dont think if religon were to 'disappear' there would be any less conflicts. ppl will always hate eachother. somebody will always conider somebody else 'sub-human'. i think religon is used as an excuse for war more than its the cause of it, lets think, most religons preach peace and loving your neighbor and dont really say anything whatsoever about killing your neighbor cuz hes different...

[Schiller]

Which god you refering to? Allahu Akbar?

[warchild1/27scout]

glax you are definetely disturbed. religion has always been used by society to make people follow some basic laws of man and make him do the RIGHT thing but there is always times when man has gotten off the wrong track. why is murdering another human wrong? do you know? because religion has said it to be. how about sealing another man's belongings? this is so basic that religion has for the most part made man do more right than wrong.

[Saranof]

glax you are definetely disturbed. religion has always been used by society to make people follow some basic laws of man and make him do the RIGHT thing but there is always times when man has gotten off the wrong track. why is murdering another human wrong? do you know? because religion has said it to be. how about sealing another man's belongings? this is so basic that religion has for the most part made man do more right than wrong.


People had those rules from the start. Even the neanderthals knew it was wrong to kill other humans.

[cut]

religion for osama types is not the cause it's the excuse
I dont understand why there is still so much religion in the states but I can understand why people with **** lives like to have some kind of religion..

[Seraphim]

People had those rules from the start. Even the neanderthals knew it was wrong to kill other humans.


Theres no proof.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

as long as there is people there will be wars

[Chris1]

Which god you refering to? Allahu Akbar?
Nah
Dieu est grand
or
Gott ist groß
or
Il dio è grande
Allah is simply god in another language, same as Dieu in French, Gott in German and dio in Italian.

[GLax]

glax you are definetely disturbed. religion has always been used by society to make people follow some basic laws of man and make him do the RIGHT thing but there is always times when man has gotten off the wrong track. why is murdering another human wrong? do you know? because religion has said it to be. how about sealing another man's belongings? this is so basic that religion has for the most part made man do more right than wrong.

obviously religon has been used to teach ppl rite from wrong, what did i say that was so disturbed? all i said was you can use religon as an excuse for violence simply because somebody worships a different one. where are my disturbed thoguhts? please point them out...

[Mortimer]

i can't understand why people will fight so hard for a 'god'. i've never believed in god or any type of higher being...its just stupid.


Religion was created as a means of control, while in theory at the time it could have been a good idea, it was exploited and just shows the nature of humans.

Religion needs to be destroyed and people need to believe in themselves and they need to think for themselves.

[Seraphim]

i can't understand why people will fight so hard for a 'god'. i've never believed in god or any type of higher being...its just stupid.


Religion was created as a means of control, while in theory at the time it could have been a good idea, it was exploited and just shows the nature of humans.

Religion needs to be destroyed and people need to believe in themselves and they need to think for themselves.

Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawkings believed there is a god.

"Everyone has a god to kill for"

[NcDeuce]

Only the dead have seen the end of war...So true.

Usually, your typical religious guy will not just get up and decide to blow up a building. The radical fanatics out there are the ones who screw things up.

Anyways, read my quote by Stonewall. Everyone wanting to go into the Armed Forces should know this quote.

[Jack Mehoff]

I don't believe in any religion and that's why I alway get along with other people without killing them :D Religion is the #1 excuse cause people killing one another and for what?

[JiJoMacLE45]

One of the great philosopher's of out time, George Carlin, said religion has been the cause that has led to more killing than any other. The crusades, religious fundamentalism, etc.

[Vance]

The Crusades is the only conflict I can think of that involves the Christians. And that was because of stubborn English guys.

[Andyman]

religion seems to flourish in improverished countries where the populace live horrible lives that offer little hope. Religion is a man's escape from reality, a hope that flows in our veins. I mean how many people on earth have ever looked up into the sky and asked for more, wondered why there is so much injustice in the world, or just plain thought about their existance. Religion and what it offers is definately a good thing, the problem arises when man tries to manipulate what that religion says for their own benefit. For example ISLAM is a very peaceful religion, but they do like the christians beleive that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Did you know that the only two religions on earth who believe it is there duty to convert other people into their faith are ISLAM and Christianity, hence the crusades.

[Andyman]

religion is the basis for all law. Primary law is based entirely on religion and morals.

[Vance]

For example ISLAM is a very peaceful religion, but they do like the christians beleive that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Every religion is that way. :roll:



Did you know that the only two religions on earth who believe it is there duty to convert other people into their faith are ISLAM and Christianity, hence the crusades
I thought the Crusades was about the Muslims, Christians, and someone else wanting control over the holy land.

[Jack Mehoff]

religion is the basis for all law. Primary law is based entirely on religion and morals.

You don't have to be religious to have a moral standard.

[StarvingStudent47]

The argument that "religion causes violence" is easily refuted by pointing at Stalin's USSR or the People's Republic of China or North Korea, all of which are officially state-sponsored aethist.

The argument that "religion prevents violence" is refuted just as easily by pointing at the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Thirty-Years War, and modern jihads being waged against various countries around the world.

With religion or without religion, a lot of human beings are gonna be violent and hateful. It's a sad fact of this existence.

[Andyman]

you can exclude Buddhism from that point Vance I dont think they care either way :lol:

[martinexsquaddie]

er the burma military goverment are buddist Fundamentalists
nice bunch of guys not

[Haiw]

allright, time for my own conclusion:

In the past, religion has of course shown it's good and bad sides..now if we take a closer look at religion, we can see (imo) that often it's pretty much a 'shell', pretty much a sort of mirror image of human character... i'm having a hard time to put this to words so i'll try and give some examples...

-people have always been creatures that wan't to 'explain' everything, especially the things that are so hard to explain... (remember as a kid u always asking 'why is the grass green' 'where do babies come from' etc.)
thus, what does religion do? it explains a lot of things... this is where the old 'nature religions' (thats a literal translation from a dutch word, but i think u get the point) came from. People wanted to explain the things they couldn't explain, wanted to blame what cudn't be blamed, and wanted to cheer, but didn't know who to cheer at...thus resulting, almost as a logical step; religion. However, sucha thing could simply be different for every person, resulting in as much different religions as there are people....however, if it wasnt for another special thing about people:

-the tendency to form groups....in all kinds of ways. Just look around: countries, towns, sport communities, etc. etc. even this forum is pretty much its own community / group. The reasons for this almost automatic groupforming are hard to define, but the results are crystal clear. Human society (hey, that's a group already) is built from groups...countries, smaller communities, etc...religion... religion becoming 'big' was pretty much uninvitable. It was propably just the 'next step'. So why don't we just consider religion as it's own groupie now ok? Now where did it go 'wrong' with religion? I mean, if it wud just be everyone minding his own little one-man-religion everything wud propably be fine...now what would differ when it's just more people minding a religion? well, that's the next step:

-humanity's inabillity to
A live without a leader (when groups become big, the need for a leader always arises, simply because anarchy doesn't work)
B responsibly work with power... (here some of the basic flaws of humanity take over again; greed, intollerance, basic irresponsibility, etc. etc.)
C 'get along'

People have waged wars for religions all the time...Why? Mostly because of a combination of B & C or just C. Humans have always been intollerable towards people that are 'different' whether it be in religion or something else, thus resulting in conflicting religions clashing with each other... And of course greed manifests itself often with leaders as the hunger for more power, to expand their influence, territory, or religion... I could go on and on how these 3 things (well, mostly the last 2, the 1st is just a necessity for the whole construction) are pretty much the basic flaws that always lead to the 'failure' of religion leading to conflicts.
Conflicts that weren't really avoidable either, cus like i said; religion is pretty much a mirror image of human kind.

The flaws of human kind are simply undeniable there, just like religion.
Religion, is in it self simply a result of some of the weaknesses of mankind, creating the need for it. And of course the problems RESULTING from religion, are not really the result of religion, since religion is just like a 'shell'. They are just the result of mankind....

So all in all we can conclude; the existance of religion never really mattered (and was unavoidable anyway) since its just a manifestation of humankind, and has pretty much 'shown' how humankind really is...

[Beowulf]

UCT, a while back I was taking some classes on astrophysics and all that boring stuff :D , and after the Big Bang was explained, the professor waited for the question he wanted to hear. "How'd the primordial speck get there?" When it was finally asked, the professor said very seriously "In my scientific opinion, there is only one explanation: God. But be science-minded, test out your own hypothesis." It's a good point. Before the Big Bang, the theory says that all the energy and mass were compressed into one super-dense speck. How'd the speck get there? To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a non-religious reason for the existence of that speck. Which is very similar to "What's the meaning of life?"

Sorry for the kind of off topic post. Anyways, have a good one, and just some thoughts...

This is a good explanation of proofs one and two (of five) that Aquinas uses in the Summa Theologiae (Book one Q 2 Art 3) The "unmoved mover" argument and the argument based on efficient casuality.

Not bad for a science guy, Tane..... :lol:
-b

[Herrmannek]

The flaws of human kind are simply undeniable there, just like religion.
Religion, is in it self simply a result of some of the weaknesses of mankind,(...)

Do you call those weaknesses?


allright, time for my own conclusion:
...
-people have always been creatures that want to 'explain' everything. (...)

-the tendency to form groups....in all kinds of ways. (...)

-humanity's inabillity to
A live without a leader (...)
B responsibly work with power... (here some of the basic flaws of humanity take over again; greed, intollerance, basic irresponsibility, etc. etc.)
C 'get along'


If there wouldn't be those weakneses we would still be some bald monkeys
Guy this couldn't be done better by evolution or God :)

want to 'explain' everything => Science
groups => making things that one can't
inability A => directed development, even computers in distributed systems needs a leader.
inability B => stimulates need for development
inability C => we are here with smile on faces

[Haiw]

well they are weaknesses, but I never said they cudn't be BOTH our weakness, and yet at the same time our strength.. (think of how for example an army finds out most of it's training is rather crappy, like the US in the 2nd World War (compared to the germans that is), what did they do afterward? they started better training)

humanity has as one of its few 'good' sides that it has shown to have the ability to make good things from it's weaknesses... (think of wars for example; wars have been one of the worst things mankinds commits to, yet it has shown that theres no time humans can be so inventive then in wars!)

[spier]

I found a little factual joke that explain my stand on this subject quite nicely:
Q. What do Christians, Jews and Muslims have in common?
A. They are all idiots.

[Trigger]

The rest of the punchline spier forgot to include:
"...however they are all rocket scientists compared to spier"

way to offend the majority of the PLANET. :slap:

[spier]

way to offend the majority of the PLANET. :slap:Thank you. I do my best.

[Beowulf]

way to offend the majority of the PLANET. :slap:Thank you. I do my best.

.......ahem.......Polesmoker
-b

[California Joe]

As GWB senior would say..."There you go again"

I was raised Catholic. I'm presently looking for a religion that "get's all the chicks".

[StarvingStudent47]

I was raised Catholic. I'm presently looking for a religion that "get's all the chicks".

Your answer is seven posts down in this thread (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4071). :)

[California Joe]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww, as the sorority girls in Animal house would say.

I'm thinking Druids.

[StarvingStudent47]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww, as the sorority girls in Animal house would say.

I'm thinking Druids.

Actually, you might be onto something there. Isn't it their religious duty or something to get laid on the solstice? Hard to beat that.

[California Joe]

Yep, big stones, virgins, cool tattoos....I'm there.