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View Full Version : Israeli Aiming Reflex Sight for the USMC



Storm_Trooper
11-14-2004, 07:06 AM
I was pretty surprised to see this, a US Marine in Fallujah, Iraq with a Israeli Aiming Reflex Sight (MARS) on his AR15. Is this a personnal purchased or in test by now??
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/20041113102541/$file/MOUTaiminginsidelightinglow.jpg

Hi/Res (http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/9db038346e88716f85256f4b0054c004/$FILE/MOUTaiminginsidelighting.jpg)

Backfin
11-14-2004, 08:58 AM
Yes, a small amount of MARSes was purchased by the us for testing.

Raistlin
11-14-2004, 09:08 AM
If it's still in testing phase then they've got themselves one hell of a test.

One_A
11-14-2004, 11:22 AM
Looks like a decent piece of equipment. Whether or not the big Army will accept is a different story.

israeli dude
11-14-2004, 11:29 AM
why the hall the U.S. need to test the MARS???thay have their oun reflex sight no???and thay are going to replais all the M16 to the XM8,so what need is thier for the US to test it???
or thay are testing it for us(israel)???(i cant see that this is trou because their is enaf fighting here for that).

Enduring Freedom
11-14-2004, 11:30 AM
I was pretty surprised to see this, a US Marine in Fallujah, Iraq with a Israeli Aiming Reflex Sight (MARS) on his AR15. Is this a personnal purchased or in test by now??
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/2004113102541/$file/MOUTaiminginsidelightinglow.jpg

Hi/Res (http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/9db038346e88716f85256f4b0054c004/$FILE/MOUTaiminginsidelighting.jpg)

Nice red X.

Can anyone post a pic that works?

israeli dude
11-14-2004, 11:37 AM
in iraq:
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/fallujah_offensive/abv.jpg

http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2004/11/14/67432205.jpg

about the MARS:
The ITL Multipurpose Aiming Reflex Sight (MARS) is a state of the art optic, combining a reflex sight and either an IR or a visible laser pointer, all in one rigid unit.

http://www.isayeret.com/optics/mars/mars-alone.jpg

MARS from the end user view. Note the fixed 3-dots emergency iron sights on top of the device

The MARS was originally developed especially for the IMI Tavor, as its integral aiming system. However, the MARS is now offered globally for all weapons, which support a standard M1913 Picatinny rail, and was already sold to several SF units in Asia.

http://www.isayeret.com/optics/mars/mars-alone-2.jpg

ITL MARS

By combining two aiming devices into one integral unit, the MARS provides several advantages:

It enables the operator to carry less tactical optics and thus to save weight.

Buying the MARS cost less then buying two separated units of a laser pointer and a reflex sight.

Both the laser pointer and the reflex sight have the same single bore sighting mechanism, hence faster and more reliable zeroing of the device.

The MARS is made from aluminum. It weights 310 grams and is 132 mm in length. It has several unique features including a fixed emergency iron sights on top of the device, built in ballistic compensator for ranges up to 450 meters, an optional X3 add on magnifying day optic and a remote switch cable. Also, another ITL product - the Mini Night Single Eye Acquisitions Sight (Mini N/SEAS) monocular NVG - can be mounted behind the MARS, and can be utilized as weapon mounted NVD, by taking advantage of the MARS night vision compatible reflex sight aiming dot or its IR laser pointer.

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/commando/mars+commando.jpg

While originally developed for the IMI TAR project, the MARS is now offered globally for every weapons which support a Picatinny rail. In this photo MARS is fitted on a flat top Colt Commando. Note the Orlite thermold (polymer) 31 rounds magazine.

One disadvantage of the MARS is that unlike other modern reflex sights, like the Meprolight Mepor 21 or the Trijicon ACOG reflex, the MARS reflex sight is powered by a battery, rather then a battery-free fiber optic technology like other reflex sights. Since both the laser pointer and the reflex sights elements in the MARS are using the same single power source (1AA battery), simultaneous usage of both of them may result in a rather swift power drain. However, alone, the reflex sight has a continually operating time of over 200 hours and the laser pointer of over 10,000 operations of five seconds each.

taking from ISayeret (http://www.isayeret.com)

FozzieBear
11-14-2004, 11:44 AM
why the hall the U.S. need to test the MARS???thay have their oun reflex sight no???and thay are going to replais all the M16 to the XM8,so what need is thier for the US to test it???
or thay are testing it for us(israel)???(i cant see that this is trou because their is enaf fighting here for that).
the us ARMY are going to adopt the xm8 the USMC are staying with the m16 :P

israeli dude
11-14-2004, 11:47 AM
why the hall the U.S. need to test the MARS???thay have their oun reflex sight no???and thay are going to replais all the M16 to the XM8,so what need is thier for the US to test it???
or thay are testing it for us(israel)???(i cant see that this is trou because their is enaf fighting here for that).
the us ARMY are going to adopt the xm8 the USMC are staying with the m16 :P

are you sure,because i think the us will prefor if all of its army cops will have the saim assault rifle.

American Patriot
11-14-2004, 11:53 AM
It sits kind of high for a good cheek weld

FozzieBear
11-14-2004, 11:57 AM
why the hall the U.S. need to test the MARS???thay have their oun reflex sight no???and thay are going to replais all the M16 to the XM8,so what need is thier for the US to test it???
or thay are testing it for us(israel)???(i cant see that this is trou because their is enaf fighting here for that).
the us ARMY are going to adopt the xm8 the USMC are staying with the m16 :P

are you sure,because i think the us will prefor if all of its army cops will have the saim assault rifle.
yes i am sure and if its in 5.56 it wont make much difference...

One?
11-14-2004, 12:33 PM
could it be that Israelis are attached to the marines?

MEGR
11-14-2004, 12:36 PM
why the hall the U.S. need to test the MARS???thay have their oun reflex sight no???and thay are going to replais all the M16 to the XM8,so what need is thier for the US to test it???
or thay are testing it for us(israel)???(i cant see that this is trou because their is enaf fighting here for that).
the us ARMY are going to adopt the xm8 the USMC are staying with the m16 :P

Marines are just old fasioned I guess. In Vietnam they were reluctant to drop their m14s when the m16 came out.

scm77
11-14-2004, 12:36 PM
could it be that Israelis are attached to the marines?

No.

IDFM203
11-14-2004, 01:09 PM
could it be that Israelis are attached to the marines? :roll: :lol: Haha indeed I am sure a lot in the Muslim world think so, though in truth the only Israelis attached to the Marines is merely in the realm of some training in Israel in Israeli MOUT techniques that the Marines got, or its use of Israeli MARS reflex sights, UAVs and now even they are using D9's with Israeli Armour (and a whole host of other Israeli applications and harware that the U.S. military uses), but actual Israeli boots on the ground I doubt, I mean in general Israel wasn’t invited due to the vain hopes of the U.S. in not wanting to upset the “delicate sensibilities” of the Arabs due to their pure hatred of Israel and the Jews living there.


Shalom :D

Raistlin
11-14-2004, 01:16 PM
could it be that Israelis are attached to the marines?
What do you mean "attached"?

scm77
11-14-2004, 01:39 PM
He means Israeli soldiers fighting together with US marines.

American Patriot
11-14-2004, 02:06 PM
rofl I needed that.

Raistlin
11-14-2004, 02:38 PM
He means Israeli soldiers fighting together with US marines.
Huh? How can something like this happen ATM?

ZaakM433
11-14-2004, 02:57 PM
why the hall the U.S. need to test the MARS???thay have their oun reflex sight no???and thay are going to replais all the M16 to the XM8,so what need is thier for the US to test it???
or thay are testing it for us(israel)???(i cant see that this is trou because their is enaf fighting here for that).
the us ARMY are going to adopt the xm8 the USMC are staying with the m16 :P

are you sure,because i think the us will prefor if all of its army cops will have the saim assault rifle.

Eh.. army will have m8, marines m16, so technically all the army will have the m8! well... kinda... atleast the riflemen...

ZaakM433
11-14-2004, 02:58 PM
could it be that Israelis are attached to the marines?
What do you mean "attached"?

by birth... duh! what else could he possibly mean!

Ratamacue
11-14-2004, 03:16 PM
why the hall the U.S. need to test the MARS???thay have their oun reflex sight no???and thay are going to replais all the M16 to the XM8,so what need is thier for the US to test it???
or thay are testing it for us(israel)???(i cant see that this is trou because their is enaf fighting here for that).
As Fozzie said, the USMC don't have any plans currently to issue the XM8. More than likely they're looking for a good sight to give all their riflemen that is more flexible than the Trijicon or Aimpoint (as the MARS has the IR/visible illuminator as well as simple back up sights).

One?
11-14-2004, 03:46 PM
could it be that Israelis are attached to the marines? :roll: :lol: Haha indeed I am sure a lot in the Muslim world think so, though in truth the only Israelis attached to the Marines is merely in the realm of some training in Israel in Israeli MOUT techniques that the Marines got, or its use of Israeli MARS reflex sights, UAVs and now even they are using D9's with Israeli Armour (and a whole host of other Israeli applications and harware that the U.S. military uses), but actual Israeli boots on the ground I doubt, I mean in general Israel wasn’t invited due to the vain hopes of the U.S. in not wanting to upset the “delicate sensibilities” of the Arabs due to their pure hatred of Israel and the Jews living there.


Shalom :D

Dude I didn't mean it that way. Forget who I am or what my origin is for a moment. Would you rather go into combat with someone who knows wtf they're doing, or someone who just got out of boot camp. Israelis have 100x times more experience in urban warfare, and having some of them work with the marines could be valuable.

Raistlin
11-14-2004, 05:36 PM
IDFM completely mirrors my thoughts about this. The question is just our of this world and it doesnt matter who asked it. There was a biiig issue with Israel joining in DS and I don't see the things changin right now.

Moledet
11-14-2004, 05:50 PM
could it be that Israelis are attached to the marines? :roll: :lol: Haha indeed I am sure a lot in the Muslim world think so, though in truth the only Israelis attached to the Marines is merely in the realm of some training in Israel in Israeli MOUT techniques that the Marines got, or its use of Israeli MARS reflex sights, UAVs and now even they are using D9's with Israeli Armour (and a whole host of other Israeli applications and harware that the U.S. military uses), but actual Israeli boots on the ground I doubt, I mean in general Israel wasn’t invited due to the vain hopes of the U.S. in not wanting to upset the “delicate sensibilities” of the Arabs due to their pure hatred of Israel and the Jews living there.


Shalom :D

Dude I didn't mean it that way. Forget who I am or what my origin is for a moment. Would you rather go into combat with someone who knows wtf they're doing, or someone who just got out of boot camp. Israelis have 100x times more experience in urban warfare, and having some of them work with the marines could be valuable.
As far as I know, a law was made by the Knesset of Israel after 1956, that says that Israel can't fight back to back with another country again.
It's as far as I know, i'm not sure about it.

Israel does share information, and a lot of it with the US, but that's it. There's also US-Israel strategic forum that assembles once a year to plan and to discuss all kind of attacking/defensive plans, future combat arenas and the region situation.

AlexNenadic
11-14-2004, 07:14 PM
One disadvantage of the MARS is that unlike other modern reflex sights, like the Meprolight Mepor 21 or the Trijicon ACOG reflex, the MARS reflex sight is powered by a battery, rather then a battery-free fiber optic technology like other reflex sights.

They have it wrong. The two most common reflex sights used by the US right now are Aimpoint and EOTech models, and both are battery powered. Granted, the Aimpoint has an insane battery life (thousands of hours of continuous operation).

JTAR7242
11-14-2004, 07:33 PM
Currently the USMC is only testing the M8.

This is due to, I believe, a desire by the Corps to find a better weapon for the future in a higher caliber. There is also testing of the Barret M468 (which if it can be found viable would be my choice due to the heavier caliber). The M8, while nice, is still currently chambered for 5.56mm (though they claim it can be configured to support higher caliber rounds) and as such I don't think the Marine Corps is convinced it is worth the expenditure of our already limited funds on an entirely new system.

Remember that while buying the M16A4 incurred new "per unit" costs, the amount of retraining for both armorers and user familiarity factors is low. New spare parts, new tools, etc are less needed. The XM8 brings a whole new skillset, for both operators to learn to shoot with it, and for armorers to fix it.

Thor
11-14-2004, 09:10 PM
One thing I've wondered about is why USMC didn't go for the same Aimpoint sight as the swedish armed forces did. Aimpoint is a swedish company and it has worked closely with the armed forces for some time to develop an even more improved and ruggid version.

The new sight mounted on an AK4 (H&K G3). Notice the three crowns indicating it's an no-export version.
http://homepage.mac.com/soldat/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2003-06-16%2013.59.20%20-0700/Image-496A992D679111D8.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/soldat/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2003-06-16%2013.59.20%20-0700/Image-740CBF88A03C11D7.jpg

Raistlin
11-14-2004, 09:28 PM
Looks very nice. Reflection hider, rail, iron sights, laser (?), IR(?).

Thor
11-14-2004, 10:45 PM
I got no official info on this sight but what I know is:

* Increased light transmission for improved usage in dusk and dawn
* Reflection hider
* Improved shock protection and rubber coating
* Mounting rail on top of sight
* Reserve iron sights on top of sight
* Capable of mounting some kind of night vision stuff behind the sight
* Capable of mounting some kind of "stuff" in front of the sight
* Capable of detecting "invisible" laser dot from separate laser
* Battery should withstand 10 years of usage when used on a daily basis

The sight could/should actually be mounted further down the rail to leave room for the in front sight..
http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_ak4_0022.jpg

Probable Aimpoint 3x Magnifier prototype mounted on an AK5D
Edit: wrong picture.

pettifogger
11-15-2004, 11:28 PM
That is not a night vision device. That's Aimpoint's 3X magnifier.

Thor
11-15-2004, 11:48 PM
You're probably right. I got no clue about the imagifier or the night vision stuff to Aimpoint sights.

Catch22
11-16-2004, 02:14 AM
EOTech got its own "magnifier" its still in testing phase, zoom is at x3,75 its mounted on QD P-rail mount. EOTech director told me they want to field it by early 2005.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Catch22/M4dualoptic.jpgHere it is with HWS 552

How well does Aimpoint magnifier perform? Dot must be quite large since its 4 MOA right? This may obstruct fied of vision... :roll:

pettifogger
11-17-2004, 12:50 AM
The Aimpoint mangifier supposedly works quite well. I don't know how it does it, but the dot does not magnify from 4MOA to 12MOA. It remains 4MOA. Somehow it magnifies the image through the Aimpoint.

Raistlin
11-19-2004, 06:02 AM
Who said only USMC?

<img src=http://cache.*****images.com/comp/51760428.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=0F88D096635BE440ADA1097A40086204A9C30E9B9B114CE8>

MOSUL, IRAQ: A soldier from the first battalion 24th regiment of the Stryker brigade fires at insurgents who had filed Rocket Propelled Grenades on troops searching a warehouses in the insurgence stronghold of the Al-Yarmouk district to the west of Mosul, northern Iraq 18 November 2004.

israeli dude
11-19-2004, 07:28 AM
i have a question for you guy's:
what is considerd the best Reflex Sight in the world???

Raistlin
11-19-2004, 07:39 AM
What is considered the best assault rifle in the world? :roll:

israeli dude
11-19-2004, 07:42 AM
ok ok you right stopit question.