The Alamo - movie

[hood]

I noticed that the trailer for the upcoming Alamo movie is up. Here's the windows media link at yahoo.com:

http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1229485&segment=115209&s=1808402862&ru=embedded%2Eyahoo%2Ecom&b=5r34t24vnjaeh3f79a9ea&type=t

Looks amazing with good actors.

[uspdude]

what about Killing pablo(involve Delta force) ....it goona turn into a movie as well....

[hood]

That movie's probably not going to be so great with all those floating black bars everywhere.

[Haiw]

guess we here on the forums all got some advise on the uniforms of the delta guys eh ;)

[uspdude]

That movie's probably not going to be so great with all those floating black bars everywhere.

this might b a stupid question but i still have to ask....what the hell is a
"floating black bars"??

[hood]

Those are black bars. :)

http://www.specialoperations.com/Army/Delta_Force/delta.jpg

[Rantanplan]

- its ultra Patriotic

- Bill Bob Thornton as an action Hero (!?!?!!?)

- the same terrible Soundtrack as "Gladiator"

- its about Texas


Who wants to see this Crap?
Except Budanski. ;)

[uspdude]

...............actually the settin was in Colombia 1993, ...and some of the member from D force went to Somalia after they complete their mission in Colombia...(i might b wrong, but that's what i'v heard)

[hood]

...er... he's talking about the alamo movie which this thread is actually about.

[Trigger]

- its ultra Patriotic

- Bill Bob Thornton as an action Hero (!?!?!!?)

- the same terrible Soundtrack as "Gladiator"

- its about Texas


Who wants to see this Crap?
Except Budanski.
Ultra Patriotic. And your problem with that is....? Oh wait, American Patriotic...now I get it. Well since we (Americans) will be the primary audience, it will probably do well.
Billy Bob Thornton: well you may have missed it but he's an actor and they sometimes portray action heroes.
Gladiator: yeah the soundtrack really crippled that bomb of a film.
Texas: Great state. Very integral to the history of the U.S. Maybe you should visit before you turn your nose up to it. Oh, sorry, I forgot you know it all already...silly me.

Yeah, Rantanplan has his finger firmly on the pulse of American cinema :roll:

[jdbjdb]

I will watch it, even though we got our ass kicked at the alamo, but we paid them back in full at san jacinto, guess the mexicans shouldn't have taken that siesta,

[Rantanplan]

..............

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/3dlil/sleep.gif

[Trigger]

Rantanplan-> :petting: <-Trigger

It's OK, sometimes I don't have good comebacks either.

[JiJoMacLE45]

Yeah Rantanplan you're right, shameful for us to be patriotic. You know what, when I go pay my $11.50 to see 'The Alamo' I'm gonna route for the Mexicans. VIVA LA MEXICO! But dude don't knock Billy Bob, not only is he a good actor, he F'ed Angelina Jolie. And his name is Billy Bob.

[jdbjdb]

little off the subject but how about another texas movie? The Texas Chainsaw Massacre export this guy to iraq to fight the war on terrorism for us
http://www.texaschainsawmovie.com/
movie trailer

[Rantanplan]

Ultra Patriotic. And your problem with that is....?

You maybe don't understand this, but the way how you Americans celebrate your home-love is not very common in Europe(except France). Maybe because it reminds us on our dark Past.



Well since we (Americans) will be the primary audience

Ehmm, You know that the primery marked for Hollywood Movies is Europe(especial Germany)?



Billy Bob Thornton: well you may have missed it but he's an actor and they sometimes portray action heroes.

He is a great Actor. But for action Movies there is no need for acting.



Texas: Great state.

I'm not sure, but i think Texas is also in the USofA very unpopular.


Yeah, Rantanplan has his finger firmly on the pulse of American cinema

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/otn/tongue/crazy1.gif

[JiJoMacLE45]

I think you might be confusing patriotism and propoganda there Rantanplan. The film is not a rallying cry for Americans to pick up arms and storm Mexico in retalliaton.

&

Incase you didn't know, Hollywood is an overwhelmingly liberal arena in the states.

[Ichhabe]

I couldn't care less if they by mistake put the Alamo up in Alaska.
This is a must see for people who like historical movies.

But I'm a little worried, cause in the trailer I saw a little glimp of a beautiful woman. Hope that they doesn't do a "Pearl Harbor" out of the movie.

[Kitsune]

Hmmm...i have read that todays historians know from a diary of a mexican that the Alamo actually surrendered... and that there was no fight to the death there.

But I don't know wether this is the time or the place to mention this...


:oops:

[Rantanplan]

The film is not a rallying cry for Americans to pick up arms and storm Mexico in retalliaton.


What are you talking about?http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/dvv/cwmddd.gif

[Trigger]

I don't know your background Rantanplan, but your concept of America and our patriotism and the popularity of one state or another are no where near accurate.
But why am I bothering, because you're just here to bash us and nothing we say will change that.

[JiJoMacLE45]

Webster says:
Propaganda=ideas desseminated to support a doctrine
Patriotism=one who loves and defends his or her country, the act of

That's what I'm saying. You in your infinite EUROWISDOM are confusing the two.

And as far as your theory that action movies do not need acting, Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator, and Brave Heart are all Oscar winning 'action' movies.

[Rantanplan]

Who the f..k is talking about Propaganda!?!?!!?

Im just saying that this kind of kitschy Patriotism Sucks!

I'm not talking about Politics.

It's about Cinema, Stupid!

We don't want to see endless settings of the Stars and Stripes waving in the sunset.

thats awful!

[Beowulf]

well then STFU and don't see the movie....polesmoker
Have a nice f-in day
-b

[Rantanplan]

Pardon......polewhat?

[California Joe]

Last stand battles are always popular. Look at Rorkes Drift. Only they didn't all die. But I digress. Is it wrong for Americans to take pride in the fact that the defenders of an old Mission held out for as long as they did against impossible odds with a few crappy cannon and flintlock rifles? I'll be looking for historical accuracy in the film personally. Billy Bob is probably a decent choice because he looks gooney. It isn't like Davey Crockett was Brad Pitt. It's a movie not a political statement.

[Andyman]

what has happened to this forum. So much negativity, grog want love, love is good :|

[Trigger]

what has happened to this forum.
A bunch of polesmokers showed up, that's what. Now we Americans have to wade through their endless stream of literal excrement and decide whether to let their comments pass or defend ourselves. It's our own little Alamo, except in this battle of wits it's not us who is outgunned.

[California Joe]

"My friends call me psycho....."


;) Word T Money.

[Rantanplan]

Hey please Guys.

1. I'm not Mortimer
2. I'm just saying that Movies like "The Patriot", "Pearl Harbour" and "Alamo" are Kitschy.
3. What the Hell is a Polesmoker?

[Ratamacue]

2. I'm just saying that Movies like "The Patriot", "Pearl Harbour" and "Alamo" are Kitschy.

I take it you got a sneak preview of The Alamo, then?

[Rantanplan]

The Trailer was Kitschy

[California Joe]

Polesmoker: from the latin, picklus smoochala, meaning one who performs oral favors on men, fellatio, peter puffing, one who goes down, lip service,........

[Ratamacue]

Now that he knows what it means, I guess he can accuse all of us Americans of being homophobic. :cantbeli:

[budanski]

He's more familiar smoking the "pink owl"

FYI Rantanplan. I'm camping out for the movie. ;)

[California Joe]

I was thinking he'd just call me gay. It is the internet afterall.

[Ichhabe]

1) It is US-history.

2) Made by Americans.

3) For Americans.

4) Hopefully with American money. :lol:

5) It is optional if one want to go see it.
-----------------------------------------------
1a) I like US-history.

2a) Even though it is hard to notice, I do like Americans.

3a) ...all but Rumsfeld. :bash:

4a) Like their money too.

5a) I am going to see it. Rantanplan, you can stay home and watch some old episodes of Derrick, aus der reihe.

[Rantanplan]

@ Joe

:lol: Ok, Thanks. I will send up your Post to the Oxford University.
Its a scandal that Polesucker is not registered in the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary! :D

[jdbjdb]

I'm suprised the French didn't make a movie about how they fought bravely and kept Paris out of German hands during WWII.

[Ichhabe]

jdbjdb; enjoy this,...you polesmoker: :bash:

[Rantanplan]

@Ichhabe

Oh ****! The World will maybe forgive us the Third Reich, but it will never forgive us Derrick. rofl

[California Joe]

It probably should be my friend. It is a wonderfully descriptive term. heh.

I would just like to see this movie be historically accurate. The old John Wayne version was pretty horrible. Lawrence Harvey was all studly as William Barret Travis though. Bowie was married to Santa Anna's niece you know. Bowie was a ne'er do well knife fighting gambler from New Orleans or was it Miss...? I build flintlocks, I'll know if they screw up. Heh.

[Vance]

I'm suprised the French didn't make a movie about how they fought bravely and kept Paris out of German hands during WWII.
You're an idiot, shutup.

1,000,000,000,000 French jokes are funny, but 1,000,000,000,001 are not.


Movie looks good....of course I'm going to go see it, being Texan and all woot

[Rantanplan]

The Uniforms and clothes are looking pretty accurat. But historical accuratcy in hollywood Movies is rare. When I think of the "Gladiator" Romans I'm still becoming Nightmares.

[California Joe]

They try harder than they used to. There are too many critics out there. The rifles will probably be correct, the period dress will probably be good.

[Ratamacue]

Historical accuracy is rare?

How about Band of Brothers? We Were Soldiers? Glory? You give Hollywood less credit than it deserves.

[Trigger]

To: President G.W. Bush
From: Trigger
Re: The upcoming invasion/occupation of Norway we discussed recently at Camp David

Dear Dubya, I know last time we talked about that whole 'crush Norway' thing you were all excited but after consulting my colleagues at Militaryphotos.net, I feel it's imperative that we make every effort to spare a user named 'Ichabe' from any potentially hostile fire. Unlike most of the Norwegians I've encountered, he actually seems to like us and our movies! I know, they said you wouldn't believe me, but I swear it's true.

Respectfully,
Trigger

CC: Rummy, ****ie, Condie :D

[Rantanplan]

Historical accuracy in Hollywood a very young phenomenon. since the last 15 years some filmmakers try to make accurate movies. But in this time also Films like Gladiator, U-751, the Four Feathers or Windtalkers were made.

[Seraphim]

Historical accuracy in Hollywood a very young phenomenon. since the last 15 years some filmmakers try to make accurate movies. But in this time also Films like Gladiator, U-751, the Four Feathers or Windtalkers were made.


Well those movies are made purely as action.
Theres other directors who try to make it as real as possible.

[Seraphim]

Ehmm, You know that the primery marked for Hollywood Movies is Europe(especial Germany)?


And where did you come up with this nonsense?

The movies are focused primarily for North Americans. If the movie flops here...then they will focus it more overseas.

[ibstolidude]

Billy Bob Thornton: well you may have missed it but he's an actor and they sometimes portray action heroes.

He is a great Actor. But for action Movies there is no need for acting.


ratanplan - I like ya, but now need to hunt you down and demand atomic situps...

"The Last of the Mohicans" qualifies as action...Daniel Day-Lewis and the majority of that cast rocked!

and they treat the officers proper:
"there is a war on. How is it your are headed west?" brit officer
"well I face north and real sudden like turn left." - Hawkeye

Or even better "Heat" w/some of the most realistic, excellant potrayal of well rehearsed fire/manuever in a city in film, also outstanding actors!

Or "Ronin" - just plain all around great movie and acting..

Or "judge Dredd" with Sly Stallone - ohh never mind that one....oops.

[California Joe]

To: Trigger
From: Your Pal W
Re: Your performance in the film *****sburg

Dear Trigger, Looks like you've put on a few pounds, plus I don't think that Stonewall's "foot cavalry" wore Oakleys.

P.S. I saw your rubber bayonet wiggle during Pickett's charge.

Your pal, me

CC: Rummy, ****ie, Condie

[Ichhabe]

Good one Trigger, hehe. And on the part of being occupied. Just come on down! Norway has a good tradition in being occupied. First by the Danes, then the Swedes. Of course they will call it a union, duuuuh!
Then the Germans wanted to "protect" us. So USA, bring it on! :lol:

[jdbjdb]

jdbjdb; enjoy this,...you polesmoker
I'm a nonsmoker

You're an idiot, shutup
Why tell a fellow Texan to shutup don't I have the right to say stupid things? rofl

[JiJoMacLE45]

The movies made in Hollywood are not about eschewing patriotism and rallying everyone around the flag. They are telling a story. Now possibly in your anti-American view of things, you see a film where Americans are portrayed as the 'good guys' and it rubs you the wrong way b/c you think, if Americans are the good guys than this must be some "the USA is #1 and everyone else ain't ****" movie. Well buddy your twisted perception of these films is wrong. They are not propaganda films meant to rally us(meaning Americans) around a cause. They are meant to entertain. To be an escape from assholes like yourself. Maybe Leni Riefenstahl is more your speed.

[He219]

Historical accuracy in Hollywood a very young phenomenon. since the last 15 years some filmmakers try to make accurate movies
How do you define Midway, Torra Torra Torra!, Zulu!, Patton, The Deer Hunter, Full Metal Jacket, A Bridge Too Far, Platoon, etc....

;)

[jdbjdb]

The world hates all us American's and Israeli's and the world can PISS OFF! rofl rofl rofl rofl

[He219]

I found this bit about Leni Riefenstahl:

The certificate (http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/film.html#tdw) to the gold medal, which had been awarded to Leni Riefenstahl at the World Exhibition in Paris in 1937 for »Triumph of the will«.
1935 - TRIUMPH DES WILLENS

The French awarded her the Gold Medal!! Considered one of the 'Finest' Propaganda Movies ever made....

How's that for Historical Accuracy

:cantbeli:

[jdbjdb]

Are there any movies about jews hunting down nazi war criminals?

[He219]

Are there any movies about jews hunting down nazi war criminals?

Have you ever seen 'The Boys from Brazil (http://www.amctv.com/show/detail/0,,406-1-EST,00.html)'???

:P

[jdbjdb]

Haven't seen it, thank you for the link ill check it out.

[IDFM203]

Are there any movies about jews hunting down nazi war criminals? "The House on Garibaldi Street" is the movie that was based on the famous book by the former head of Mossad who in the early sixties tracked down Adolph Echiman (one of Hitler’s top nazi officials as well as the architect for the final solution) in Argentina and kidnapped him and brought him back to Israel to stand for trial. Truly a great movie that was based on true events.

Here is the link for about the movie as well as the book

http://services.windowsmedia.com/video/cov120/drv000/v090/v09024owycq.jpg
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0079313/

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0714647543/qid=1064983663/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-2381381-7941720?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[martinexsquaddie]

the thing about u571 was it actually lied the royal navy captured the engima machine by two sailors swimming into a sinking u boat one of whom did'nt make it back out.

[Trigger]

I don't think anyone will dispute the fact that U-571 was a load of crap. Good special effects though, if that counts. ;)

@ibstolidude:
Heat woot woot woot woot
Ronin woot woot woot woot
Last of the Mohicans woot woot woot woot

3 of my top 10

[Kitsune]

Just to get myself into trouble here:

I think both sides: Rantanplan (side 1), Pretty much everyone else (side2) are somewhat right.

Hollywood movies are often accurate and unfair. But they are also often damn good and entertaining. In fact, I wouldn't trade Hollywood for any other thing. What else can compete with it? Hong Kong matrial arts movies? (Nothing against those, but..) Or Indian movies? (Pfui Yuck...)
Right now nothing beats Hollywood.

Still, they are often unfair...

Example of a bad one: "U-571" Full of deliberate historical "errors". Many of the scenes are very reminiscent of "Das Boot" (the technical prowess of the crew, the submarine exceeding its depth limit, the depth charges...in other words the usual stuff). But thoses historic liberties...and i am not talking about who captured the first Enigma machine (by the way...it was the Brits, it was no commando operation, the US weren't in the war at that time and it was NOT the end of the submarine war...in fact the highest german successes were afterwards) no i am talking about other things. For example: The Germans who are shown to shoot helpless seaman fleeing from a torpedoed frighter as if it were the most normal thing to do. All in all the movie tries to depict them in the worst possible light. Or this afro american cook: How he talks to his superior during the subs preparation. Cool as expected from a black. Well, if a "negro" talked to an white officer in such manner at that time he would have been in serious trouble. Or later one, when he flames at some Germans "Hey, have you never seen a black man with a weapon?" (Most US Navy crewman hadn't either...) These things are nearly irresponsible. Many people watch that and get totally wrong impression...

Or another one: "Saving Private Ryan". Its a great movie, thats for sure. But also incredibly unfair and manipulative. I have lately seen in a theater in New York. It was downright disturbing: the audience cheered at every german soldier, who was killed. (Whats wrong with it, you ask? Well, I am German, have been a soldier for a couple of years. Thats why). And it is done in a real clever way: In the beginning the American soldiers going through hell on earth...the next to invisible Germans (sinister shadows) shooting them without mercy...but when the heroic americans finally get through they really take their revenge: Burning the Krauts ("Yeaaaaahhh!!!!" goes the audience), shooting them (after they have surrendered, those sissies...laughter from the audience...) and so on.

My favorite scene later in the movie: The German captive. Whining and groveling for his life. In fact I nearly wanted to shoot that guy for myself...
(But hey...this is a man fearing for his life. Are you so sure you wouldn't whine and grovel? Of course I would. I am one of those German whimps, remember. Every German soldier gets a basic whimp course teaching him to run away. Followed by advanced courses in "whining and groveling for your life". But one thing is for sure: an American soldier would NEVER do this. Just look the movie, it leaves no doubt about that).

And finally at the end of the movie, the heroic defense against the overwhelming equipped Wehrmacht (was Waffen SS I think). They have tanks, they have guns...but after 5 years of war they still haven't learned to search cover. The Americans with their character faces against this lot of brutes. (In fact they seem handpicked for their brutish appearance, super short haircut inclusive. No text...some jabbing in German the english speaking audience perceives as grunting noises I suppose...)

Well, as you can see this movie really got me. If it were a real BAD movie (as i have seen bazillions of) I would just laugh about it. (Such movies are in fact often very entertaining). But it is not. Great camerawork, sound, costumes, actors...really impressive. But it uses all these things to manipulate...

Closely intertwined with "SPR" is "Band of Brothers" (Tom Hanks is producer here and Spielbergs fingerprints are all over it...) Well I got that one from our local Video-Shop on DVD (with the original English version on it). First I thought: "Do you really need this? It will probably just upset you...?" but then I decided to give it a try. After "SPR" I was prepared and expected the worst most unfair treatment of the German adversary. I was not totally "dissapointed" but not as worse as expected. (Well saw it in the safety of my home and not in an American movie theater, but I still heared the cheers as this tank run over a German soldier in a battle scene).
The Germans are depicted not unsimilar to SPR, they receive not the slightest bit of respect as an adversary. Especially from the corpse-pilfering 101.Airborne.
(Its interesting: for they knew nothing of the Holocaust at that time). The series gets fairer in its last episodes, though: The episode starting with the Beethoven quartet played in the ruins. Or the "good bye" speech of the German general to his men. (The German dubbing is %&/(§ on this one...see it in English!)
Apart from this, (if you are for example an American and do not care how the Krauts are pictured) the series is great. Easily surpassing most war movies in quality (pictures, camerawork, actors, all top notch).

What is interesting about it: In earlier times movies were made that treated both sides fairly: "Duel in the Atlantic" with Robert Mitchum for example. Of course an old movie. In nearly all respects inferior to SPR. But both sides are shown as human. And because of it this movie gets closer to the reality of war: Good man kill each other. That is its real madness.
It would be understandable if the old movies made shortly after WWII were the unfair ones whereas the new ones are trying to be fair. (After all Americans and Germans are friends now. Aren't we ?? [If one exempts Budanski of course]. There were some moments in this NY cinema where I wasn't so sure...) But it is just the opposite. The longer WWII is past, the less fair are movies about it. Funny. Perhaps it is that the generation who experienced WWII and its aftermarth learned something. Something the people of today who have only lived during peacetime have forgotten again.

By the way: Just a couple of weeks ago I was visited by an British friend of mine (Yeah...well, i even know some of those. It is not his fault after all...) We watched "The Patriot" (with Mel Gibson). Well... he didn't like it :lol: . (In fact...he was downright seething...hrhrhr p-) ). But I thoroughly enjoyed it.

;)

[budanski]

You my friend, are a "Saur-Kraut"

I agree. Saving Private Ryan's generous depiction of Corporal Oppum's bravery was overly done.

[jdbjdb]

idfm203 thankyou for the link

[IDFM203]

idfm203 thankyou for the linkNo problem......always glad to help :D

[ibstolidude]

My favorite scene later in the movie: The German captive. Whining and groveling for his life. In fact I nearly wanted to shoot that guy for myself...
(But hey...this is a man fearing for his life. Are you so sure you wouldn't whine and grovel? Of course I would. I am one of those German whimps, remember. Every German soldier gets a basic whimp course teaching him to run away. Followed by advanced courses in "whining and groveling for your life". But one thing is for sure: an American soldier would NEVER do this. Just look the movie, it leaves no doubt about that).


Originally I posted on this thread as a joke about Rat's action=**** acting comments...

BUT,
- I guess the laughter distracted you as the same German soldier was stabbing the character portraying the jewish/american soldier, as he begged, pleaded and cried for his life.
Must have been getting a refill on your popcorn....

This to me is like going to a Curry shop and bitching cause the food is hot, well then go eat some where else...no one force feeds you American films....certainly with the incredible industrious technology culture in your country you could develop your own films...

[California Joe]

These movies are not made as documentaries.

Band of Brothers was made from the recollections of the men in the 101st who were there. Like all old men they imbued their stories with their PERSONAL feelings looking back 50 years. Would you really expect them to be magnanimous to the Nazi's? Of course not.

I love Last of the Mohicans because I enjoy that period in American history. If I was Iroquois it might annoy me. There are historical innacuracies but it was a NOVEL to begin with.

If they made a film of Guy Sajer's book about the Russian Front would you cheer when Weiner waxes all the Russians with the MG so his buddies can escape?

[Ratamacue]

Alot of people criticize Band of Brothers and SPR for not showing the feelings and personalities of the German soldiers and whatnot. But the point of those movies is to show the one from the perspective of a certain unit of soldiers fighting. Band of Brothers was a factual movie based on the experiences of one company of American paratroopers, not American AND German. Therefore, if you're showing the point of view of one unit, you can't show that of the other unit.

Band of Brothers hardly made disrespect to the Germans. The actors may have been cursing and hating the "Jerries," but that's because they're playing the part of an American soldier in the middle of the largest war the world has experienced. I don't think they're going to like their adversary.

[Kitsune]

Its true what you say: Of course I am watching the movies voluntarily. And no doubt...they are obviously made for an American audience...and do not even try to be fair.
But why? Why this humiliating depiction? Perhaps its Spielberg... is he a jew? If so, it could be that he holds grudge against Germany, that would be understandable. If I recall his movies...the Indian Jones trilogy for example he seems to like Krautbashing. But those movies are actionmovies...I can laugh about them. But SPR? Done with painstaking effort to look like an documentary. Even the colors. And behind all of it...manipulation of the viewer.

But please, ibstolitude: The soldier who pleaded for his life wasn't the same, who killed the Jewish soldier. (And i can't recall the Jewish one pleading for his life...both fought and in the end...to my total surprise...the German won. But the movie somehow manages to give him all the sympathy. Would the German have been killed...."Yeeeeeeeeees" goes the audience). No...remenber the scene: The Americans stormed the MG-nest, which dared to shoot back. A few Krauts are killed. No matter. But then the tragic dying scene of an American soldier: Everyone is shocked (Me too...) and now: one of the baddies is taken prisoner. The American soldiers want to kill him as well. He whines and grovels. They let him dig graves and during this time the translator guy tries to convince the others not to kill him...and finally Tom Hanks character decides to let him go.
Blindfolded the German soldier vanishes in the distance. And then: During the last battle scene it is this very soldier, who shoots Tom Hanks character!!! He is avenged by the translator guy who kills the German snake.
Sorry, I just want to point out the manipulative character of this movie. Its downright incredible. (What is the message here? Don't take prisoners?)

Sorry, Sauer-Kraut or not (Budanski strikes again :roll:, ah well ) I think it downgrades the movie. Masterpiece of Propaganda. But not a masterful warmovie that gets down to the character of war. Sorry...its what I think. But still I do not regret seeing it. Movies like this shape very much the way how WWII is seen (unfortunatley), so I think ist important to have seen this one.

Ok...I critisize it. And you feel offended. Sorry. But should the answer really be that, lets say, we Germans make our own SPR-style movies? (Would be totally impossible by the way...as Petersen did "Das Boot" he said he was terrified, that the German audience would deem it as too heroic, do you belive it?) Perhaps with whining and groveling US Rangers in it? And everyone views the Popaganda he likes. (Fairness? Who cares? Its a German movie...for the German audience!) And the other side takes revenge with an even more humiliating movie? What about...the truth for example? I hope it doesn't come to that...

As far as Band of Brothers is concerned, California Joe is absolutly right. Its about the memories of the soldiers of the 101. Airborne. And memories are not neutral. And especially not what we tell of them. With German soldiers telling stories it would be just the same. As long as we keep in mind that they are not documentaries, all is well.
But still, I think doing a movie about something historical is something of a responsibility. If you make an movie like "Lord of the Rings" you can bash the orcs all you want. But in a movie of a real war, you are showing REAL events with REAL people in it. Wether it are the English in the War of Independence, the Confederated in the Secession War, the Germans, Italians, Japanese in WWII, the Koreans, the Vietnamese...if you depict them like orcs or manipulate the audience to hate them... then...then...

well then I don't like you. So. That's that. p-)

This goes for Mexicans, too.

;)

[ibstolidude]

anyone who looks to movies for truth gets what they deserve

A big load of ****...

[budanski]

Budanski strikes again :roll:, ah well

This sounds familiar?


(After all Americans and Germans are friends now. Aren't we ?? [If one exempts Budanski of course].

[Kitsune]

@Ibstolidude:
Don't you think many people do? Some of them perhaps even Americans? "Ahh...thats how it was! Hmmm.... Now I understand you Grandpa!"

[Trigger]

Does this mean I can't hate the Orcs anymore?

*kicking the ground* :D

[ibstolidude]

They are ignorant. Regardless of Nationality. In all the places I have been I have definately learned "stupidity knows no borders"

What is the option? Federally legislate that all movies must be completly factual and remove them from the shelves?....not quite gonna happen.

Perhaps we should ban " the Fugitive" with Harrison Ford as the US Marshalls in the film vastly outpace their scope and jurisdiciton. Perhaps then the movie holds no value... not even for entertainment...

Yes it is said that most directors appear to lack the ability to pick up an encyclopedia, but then again I'm sure they would tell us, "if the curry is too hot, go eat some place else..."

[California Joe]

Kitsune, I for one make a huge distinction in my mind between Nazi's and Germans. I believe there were German soldiers in WWII that fought valiantly for the same reason most soldiers do. To survive and to save their buddies in the foxhole next to them which is why I referrenced Sajer's book.

The Indiana Jones movies are brilliant. They are based on the serials of the 1940's where the cartoon evil Nazi's get foiled by the good guys. It's a black and white world. Good defeats evil and the goodguy does impossible things and always comes out on top. Plus he calls women "broads" and stuff cause it's cool. ;)

Bottom line, they are still just movies.

I bet the Zulu's are wicked pissed at Michael Caine.

[Trigger]

Personally, I felt sorry for the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. I mean those Hollywood polesmokers made him out to be this cold blooded killer and...ah....
I mean, ah... :D

[California Joe]

It's always the pickle smooching polesmokers. I hate them. Bastards.

[Rantanplan]

Joe is right. Spielbergs Nazis are Comic Nazis.
I growed up with Captain America and Wonder Women Comics.
So His Image of Germans don't bother Me.
You could also blame James Bond Movies because the German Villans.
What realy pissed me on in SPR were the first 20 Minutes.
I mean this poor Bastards were fighting six Hours at Omaha Beach.
But the smart Heros in the Movie won the Battle in 20 minutes(realy not the Scene was 20 M long, the hole Battle was 20 M long!!!! )
I the Sequel the Hero will conquer Berlin in 15 Minutes. :lol:


P.S. I was searching on google for a Pic of Wonder Women how she beats up some Nazis. But I found this one!!!! rofl
http://www.gr8bighair.com/images/bighair13.jpg

[Kitsune]

I like the Indiana Jones movies, too. And as I said: They are obviously not to be taken seriously. Just cartoonish entertainment. But SPR is made to look real. It takes great pains to look real, feel real. Thats what makes it so...manipulative.

And I am just crisizing it okay? And I think rightly so. I didn't say it should be forbidden or something. Fact is: many people are not well educated and take these movies for real. More than they should.

And I think it is somewhat dangerous. Look, if you are a German and visit Great Britain, you are...taken aback... if you relize the downright hostility there. If in a pub the people relize you are German you probably are in trouble. Someone starts: "****ing Germans...Concentration Camps...Hitler..." and you can contemplate what to do, attack the one right or left or simply run.
Why is that? If one visits France (no problem at all, by the way), the Netherlands (a bit), even Poland (a bit more, but in their case understandable) it isn't so bad. In these are Nations who have suffered more, were humilated more. The Brits can rightfully and proudly claim "Well, we British have killed much more innocent German women and children then the Germans have killed innocent British women and children!" (And there are not many nations who can say that...I shamefully add). But the Antipathy is nowhere greater. And their knowledge of postwar Germany is dim, at best (There are exceptions of course). Even the british friend of mine, I mentioned, conceded that Germany is not as he expected (he expected much worse) But he stated: "Its not that bad." (Coming from a Brit this is quite a compliment. Lucky we.)
And it is movies like U 571 or especially SPR who have a part in this. Not they alone, but a significant part nontheless. And I am disgusted especially by SPR because it is done so cleverly and deceitfully.

@Budanski: Many horrific deeds were comitted by Germans, aye. And I have not demanded that a movie should downplay or even heroize them. But to depict every German soldier as an cowardly evil-doer, is as unjust as it is false. Period.


Again I state: I am merely critisizing the manipulative character of SPR. Thats my privilege. And you may critisize me for critisizing it.

That's your privilege.

[Kitsune]

@Rantanplan: Do you really think you would enjoy six hours of Omaha Beach Battle? That doesn't bother me in the least...a movie can't show reality correctly. But it can try to be fair.

[Rantanplan]

Fairness, of course. But here was also a Debate on historical Correctness. And that Scene was rubbish.
Landing at the Beach, going in cover, making a Bubble-Gum Trick, burn some Krauts and that all in 20 minutes. historical Correctness? Nope!

[California Joe]

Hello? Bean? Movies are 2 hours long. Unless you're Mel Gibson wearing a skirt or Kevin Costner dancing with some type of large dog. But other than that it's 2 hours.

[Rantanplan]

Yes, but Tom Hanks won the Battle of Omaha Beach in 20 Minuits. this were not Cinema minutes (with a good Cut you can show the hole War in 20 minites) But this were realtime Minutes! :lol: