socom taking best troops

[warchild1/27scout]

the marines and most conventional forces have always resented spec ops not only for thier being special but also they steal all the best solgiers out of the regular line units.i think when the marines made the decision not to enter socom thier issue was probably not to lose thier most talented warriors.but now thier being left out of some missions in spec ops and everyone knows all services compete for the action

[David]

i've never heard of anybody being forced to join a specops group, usually they "volunteer". so the only ones i think that would consider them being stolen is the leaders of the reg inf, not the actual guys in the marines or whatever. i don't really blame them i'd be disappointed to lose the smart motivated guys to specops units.

[warchild1/27scout]

well david in my unit our plt sarg would have to ask for vollunteers and when me and others guys would raise our hands our plt sarg would smoke us with push ups. of course it was kind of funny and the plt sarg thought of us as his kids he always tried like hell to deter his best fighters to leave his unit.its just like gen schwarzkopf not liking spec ops. hes a conventional guys and resented the bravado of the spec ops solgiers

[Bala ya khumak]

well david in my unit our plt sarg would have to ask for vollunteers and when me and others guys would raise our hands our plt sarg would smoke us with push ups. of course it was kind of funny and the plt sarg thought of us as his kids he always tried like hell to deter his best fighters to leave his unit.its just like gen schwarzkopf not liking spec ops. hes a conventional guys and resented the bravado of the spec ops solgiers


I've yet to met a SF guy with bravado.

[warchild1/27scout]

saint what i meant was maybe the percieved bravado and the perception from conventional forces that spec ops are hot dogs.dont get me wrong i have the utmost respect for them and most dont get and dont want any acclaim.shadow warriors

[GearGod]

"but also they steal all the best solgiers out of the regular line units"

Correction: Theyre not forced to join. They VOLUNTEER to join. BTW, the whole "marines not in SF" thing TO ME I BELIEVE is an understatement. Marines are under the DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY are they not? The Navy's SF = NAVY SEALs. If you say marines dont have SOCOM guys, think again

[Ratamacue]

The US Navy SEALs don't fall under the Marine Corps. However, the Marines just started up Detachment 1with SOCOM, whose combat unit is made up of the best 30 Force Recon Marines, and will probably slowly grow over time.

[GearGod]

But Navy SEALs and Marines travel together via Navy Carrier correct? Why would the Navy need another SF/SOF team in a addition to the SEALs? It doesnt make sense. To me, SEALs are under Navy and the fact that marines dont have a SOCOM-Official unit is because the Navy already has one under SOCOM-NAVY SEALS!

[Ratamacue]

The Marines may technically be under the Navy, but not in reality. The Marines has its own commandant, and wants a unit that they can deploy when they want to deploy it, yet under SOCOM.

[Merik]

SEALS dont travel on an amphibious assault boat unless their mission co-incides with that of the Force Recon or whatever the Marines are sending in.And no one said the SEALS were under the Marines department,they were saying they the Marines were under the Department of the Navy.Read the posts again.

[96B]

The USMC wanted to make the best first impression of the unit so thats why they selected the very best within the Corps. I didnt know it was only 30 guys from Force but I do know that out of the four 200 strong Force Companys including the reserve, 30 guys narrows it down pretty good so I think they've definately got a good group to start with. On a personal note I hope they come up with some cool name for them rather than simply Det 1 ;)

[FallenAngel]

i concur with Semperfi...

maybe "Marine COmmandos" eh? Or "Badass Mother F*ckers"?

although, Detatchment 1 does have that sorta cool cloak and dagger mystery feel to it :D

[TacoDelRio]

Sometimes, soldiers in the US Army who are trying out for SOF are seen as traitors by their peers in their present unit. It just happens that way. People think you are ditching them to do something "different".

There's camaraderie for ya!

Hooah! p-)

[GearGod]

MrSkorotsnoy: Isnt there a new SF/SOF program where one WITHOUT the standard 2 year infantyr experience, who is "off the street", can tryout for SF/SOF? Check it out(Click on TRAINING): http://sf.goarmy.com/flindex.htm

"For the first time in 22 years the Army is recruiting civilians to join the US Special Forces as weapons sergeants and engineering sergeants"

Basicly if you have what it takes you'll get RIGHT INTO Special Forces, Im guessing(like the ranger regiment) that if you dont make it you'll be assigned to some airborne infantry unit(i.e. 82nd, 101st etc.) or rolled back to a previous class---Anyone know more about this stuff?

[David]

yeah i know a little bit about it adam. at least i think i do, i signed up for it.

[GearGod]

David: What would happen if one doesnt meet their standards? Would they get another chance to try out next year? rolled back into a previous class? join an airborne infantry unit?

[David]

contract says, "IF SOLDIER FAILS TO COMPLETE ANY PORTION OF THE TNG AFTER 11B TNG, HE WILL BE DESIGNATED AS AN 11B." but i assume if i pass airborne they'll assign me to an ab division. but i don't plan on failing so i'm not too worried about it.

[David]

i don't know anything about the trying out again in a year or whatever you'll have to ask someone else.

[rnwang]

The idea of elite troops is very attractive, but in reality they may be detrimental of the overall fighting ability of an army. I'm not saying elite troops aren't necessary. But let's not be blinded in our infactuation of them as to their true role. Let's not confuse what is portrayed in the movies with real life.

Elite forces by their very nature are few in numbers. They are superbly trained and highly motivated fighting men, and because of their training and morale they can achieve seemingly impossible objective. But their own successes many times also leads to their own failures. Since they are so effective, sometime commanders will assign them to improper operations with the resulting consequences.

Also because they are so few in numbers, they can not survive long in sustained operations. They are there for the short sharp shock not the long hard slog.

Finally because they attract the most fit, skilled and aggressive individuals, elite forces may deplete an army depth. A case in point: By 1918, the German Army was really two seperate armies. The first were the elite units, the Stromtrooper. The stromtropper units were younger, better trained, better equipped, and even better fed. The rest of the army was made up of those not able or not willing to be stromtroopers.

During the final German offensive of the war, the stromtroopers performed outstandingly. They broke the Allied lines and advanced at an unheard of rate. But the offensive stalled once the stromtroopers became exhausted and the regular german troops were not able to sustain the tempo. And once the Allied counter-offensive commenced, the second rank German troops could not defend the gain made by the stromtroopers and German army collapsed.

[SHOOTERB]

The new program is called SOPC. The guy off the street will do basic/11B AIT, ABN school, SOPC, SFAS, PLDC/BNCOC, then start the Q-course. If at anytime the guy fails he will be sent to the Needs of the Army. Since he is already at Bragg he will most likely go to the 82nd ABN Div. There may be a case-by-case basis but in the end its still needs of the Army. The problem SF may face is when the guys contract is up will he stay in the Army/SF long enough to get the bang for the buck. Oh yeah, some time ago the Navy did have two SOF teams UDTS and SEALS. Remember them?

[96B]

Yea, I believe the Navy finally integrated UDT into SEALs in the very early 1980s.