Soviet Space Battle Station Skif and its prototype Polus.

[Abbyy]

Soviet Union was developing laser space battle station Skif from beginning of 80's.
Length: 37 meters
Diameter: 4.1 meter
Weight: around 80 tons
It was supposed to be launched by Energia booster (same as for Buran shuttle)

http://www.army.lv/photos/3984.jpg

Unarmed prototype filled with scientific equipment was created around 1985 and launched 15 May 1987. It was failed to start operations and with the fall of Soviet Union project was scrapped.

My father personally participated in this project (he also worked on Mir and International Space Station projects) and he was very dissapointed with this failure as i remember. It was big blow for Energia Corp engineers.

http://www.army.lv/photos/3986.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3996.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3997.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3983.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3999.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3995.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3992.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3994.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3991.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3982.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3988.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3989.jpg

[TheKiwi]

Awesome looking piece of kit. Looks very 'Thunderbirds'-ish.

[Hellfish6]

Awesome. I never knew this existed. Thanks!!

[Deuterium]

Awesome looking piece of kit. Looks very 'Thunderbirds'-ish.

Yeah that's what I was thinking as well.

[A large wooden rabbit]

Boy, reagan really pulled that one off. :lol:

[Raistlin]

My father personally participated in this project (he also worked on Mir and International Space Station projects)
Receive my full respect

[KDF]

Wow, some great photos I hadn't seen before (and I'm a long time space enthusiast)..pictures of Polyus were impossible to find until the Energia anniversary book was published back in about 1996.
If I recall correctly a software error caused the failure - the engine to get into final orbit was in the nose (under a fairing in those pics) so the craft was instructed to rotate 180 degrees then fire..however the error caused it to rotate 360 and it boosted itself back into the atmosphere..oops.

[GazB]

Interesting Pics Abbyy... thanks for posting them.

[J-10]

Awesome!!! Star war would begin. :|

[aartamen]

And they said that movie with Clint Eastwood in space was farfethced. Hah!

[sp2c]

exactly what happened to it??

failed to take of or did it take of and crash??
were there any cassualties?

[Abbyy]

exactly what happened to it??

failed to take of or did it take of and crash??
were there any cassualties?

KDF said right things about what happened

[Durandal]

Neato!

A very interesting post. Any other cool tidbits gleamed from your father?

[Abbyy]

Neato!

A very interesting post. Any other cool tidbits gleamed from your father?

About this station? Almost nothing. Secret thing, you know.
As for Mir and ISS stations i can tell a lot of interesting stories.

One thing i can tell you - Energia Corp now workin on Mars mission.

[aartamen]

Whose?

[Abbyy]

At this stage it doesn't matter. Subdivision where my father worked now developing autonomous life supporting facilities solutions for expedition.

[aartamen]

I am confused. When someone is working on something as concrete as a space mission he usually knows where his check comes from and who's going to use the results of his research. Or is this purely theoretical work?

[Raistlin]

Please please please please share with us his stories. Any intreresting stories from his work. Especially ISS would be fun - I always crack up when they start telling the anecdotes about how russian engineers tried to work with american.

[Abbyy]

I am confused. When someone is working on something as concrete as a space mission he usually knows where his check comes from and who's going to use the results of his research. Or is this purely theoretical work?

No, practical.
There's one problem - they're preparing Russian expedition but they do not receive enough funding.

So this may end like with ISS where Russian modules built for Mir-2 were used.

[Abbyy]

Please please please please share with us his stories. Any intreresting stories from his work. Especially ISS would be fun - I always crack up when they start telling the anecdotes about how russian engineers tried to work with american.

Yes it was much funny things with ISS development. But I would like to tell about space sauna.

My father was one of developers of shower and sauna for space station. Actually it was project for his graduation from institute. Leter when he came to Energia it became his job to implement both on space station. What he with developers team did for Mir space station.

So cosmonauts enjoyed not only shower but also good sauna during their missions. But one day bosses decided that sauna consumes too much energy and ordered to dismount it from station.

Cosmonauts of current mission said: no way, mother****ers. Bosses were very angry but what can you do when thing which you want to destroy flies 300 kilometers above you. So when mission returned to earth and next team arrived to station they issued this order once again.

Next team said: umm... ok... after all experiments will be done....
Guess what happened. In result they sabotaged order too :)

So when third mission were about to launch military man was included who received strict orders to dissassemble sauna at any cost :) And he did this job.

So in turn my father was very angry and dissapointed :)

[A large wooden rabbit]

Space saunas? Now ive heard everything! :lol:

[joka]

So if it would have reached operational status, the Sovjet Union would have had a laserbeam pointing at earth from space?

What kind of laserbeam are we talking about here? "Independence day City destroyer" or.. ?

[JimO]

These are the best photos I've ever seen in my life,
and i've been LOOKING hard, even in Russia.

THANK YOU for sharing.

I have some written and unwritten stories on Polyus I'll share when
I have more time, Monday for sure.

Jim O
kosmicheskiy syshchik

[goldman]

WOW, i never knew that even existed, awome! woot

[goldman]

http://www.aerospaceguide.net/pics/buran_trans.jpg

[UVA Cavalier]

Hey Abbyy

My Dad is currently working on the NASA Mars mission. He does human life sciences as well. Evidently he is going to be traveling to Europe, Russia and Kazakhstan, meeting with the other space programs to see what they are doing, share research and so forth.

Pretty cool coincidence.

[aartamen]

I am confused. When someone is working on something as concrete as a space mission he usually knows where his check comes from and who's going to use the results of his research. Or is this purely theoretical work?

No, practical.
There's one problem - they're preparing Russian expedition but they do not receive enough funding.

So this may end like with ISS where Russian modules built for Mir-2 were used.

OK. I've never heard that the Russians were even talking about a Mars shot. We are talking about a manned expedition, right?

[stateofequilibrium]

It would probably be safe to assume that the Russians are trying to do everything the Americans are doing, and the Americans are trying to do everything the Russians are doing.

[aartamen]

Not safe at all.

[DDAY]

It would probably be safe to assume that the Russians are trying to do everything the Americans are doing, and the Americans are trying to do everything the Russians are doing.

No, not correct. The Russian program is starved for cash. Their space science program is virtually dead.

The Mars mission that he referred to is probably Phobos-Grunt, which I think means "Phobos-Soil." Phobos is one of the two moons of Mars. The Russians have proposed a mission to put a lander down on one of them and collect soil samples and return them to earth. I don't believe the mission is funded, but the Russians would like the Japanese to participate.

I have an image of Phobos-Grunt, but I'm new here and am not sure how to post it.[/img]

[punder]

Raistlin, I would be very interested to hear what you and your father think of the possibility of refurbishing/reactiving the Energia booster and its launch facility to participate in launches to the Moon or Mars.

Here in the US there is a some controversy about whether NASA should use part of its meager "Vision for Space Exploration" budget to develop a new heavy-lift launcher, or whether to size payloads for existing medium-lift launchers like Atlas V/Delta IV or (hopefully) SpaceX Falcon V.

But with a Saturn-class launcher having been developed by your father's company not long ago, it seems like it could be useful to reactivate it, perhaps with funds provided by international partners.

Guys, I'm sure you want to jump on me and explain to me why this is a bad idea--but I'd like to hear what Raistlin has to say.

Patrick

[punder]

Duh, I'm new here, not used to handles, shoulda been more careful. I mean, I want to hear what ABBYY has to say.

[DDAY]

On the subject of the Polyus station depicted in those great photos, this was supposedly an experimental unmanned space station equipped with lasers and missile interceptors. It was launched into orbit but failed to orbit properly and reentered.

It would have fired the lasers in space at ICBMs. It was probably intended to fire at the ICBMs while they were still in boost phase (i.e. rocket firing) and therefore the laser would have to fire through the atmosphere.

It is highly doubtful the Russians could have made this thing work. Even if they did, the orbit was so low that they would have had to launch a lot of them to keep some within range at all times. Very expensive to do.

However, Polyus remains an enigma. Much about it is secret, so we do not know any details.

The rocket that launched it was the Energia which also launched the Buran. The Energia is long gone. That capability no longer exists. At least one of the shots shows the vehicle during assembly inside a large building. This was known as Site 110 at the Tyura-Tam launch facility (this was the same building where they assembled their N-1 moon rocket during the 1960s). A couple of years ago the roof of that building collapsed, destroying the Buran that flew once in space along with another Energia rocket. So that facility is destroyed, although the building next to it is still in use.

[DDAY]

punder wrote:
But with a Saturn-class launcher having been developed by your father's company not long ago, it seems like it could be useful to reactivate it, perhaps with funds provided by international partners.


The Energia was launched twice, in October and November 1988. That's 16 years ago, making this an old vehicle. People have retired and tooling has been destroyed. So that's one reason.

A second reason is that the building where the Energia was assembled collapsed a few years ago, destroying an extra vehicle and a lot of spare equipment, along with much of the construction equipment. The capability to build the Energia no longer exists. It would have to be recreated.

[Abbyy]

Kind of wonder how many space fans are visiting Military photos site :)

Yes it is great challenge for modern Russia to restart production of many things made in Soviet Union.

[Kurt9]

Abbyy,

You say that Energia corporation is making hardware for a Mars trip and that financing is difficult.

Anyway that Energia can cut a deal with the Chinese? A JV (joint venture) deal where the Chinese put up some of the money and get to send some of their astronauts on the mission might work.

Has anyone discussed this?

Kurt

[Abbyy]

Abbyy,

Has anyone discussed this?

Kurt

I don't know. I'm not a boss. :) Actually i suppose this is more political question rather then economical.

[KDF]

I see news of this thread and the Polyus photos got posted to sci.space.history overnight (my time)...alot of the 'grey beard' space experts will be visiting I think :D

[punder]

[quote="DDAY
The Energia was launched twice, in October and November 1988. That's 16 years ago, making this an old vehicle. People have retired and tooling has been destroyed. So that's one reason.

A second reason is that the building where the Energia was assembled collapsed a few years ago, destroying an extra vehicle and a lot of spare equipment, along with much of the construction equipment. The capability to build the Energia no longer exists. It would have to be recreated.[/quote]

Actually much of the Energia still most certainly exists--the strap-on boosters are still in production as the Zenit first stage. The RD-170 is in production as the RD-180, which is all RD-170 parts except for the turbopump.

There are other mitigating factors that go beyond a simple yes/no. A collapsed roof, for example, does not equal complete destruction of the building. We build bigger roofs for football stadiums. Building and repairing large buildings is not that hard, especially in the context of an international effort to explore the Moon and Mars. Much of the building is still in use for ongoing Progress and Starsem launches. Much of the rest of the infrastructure still exists, rusty perhaps... And even if tooling is all gone (is it really? I wonder), blueprints certainly exist.

Looking around a little, I found a statement from Aleksandr Derechin, Head of International Division, RSC Energia, indicating that while cost of restarting production would be considerable, it would probably be cheaper than creating a whole new vehicle. I found that at

http://chapters.marssociety.org/winnipeg/russian.html

As for the Energia being "old" technology: Lockheed certainly wouldn't say that, using as they are the RD-180. Engines developed for Energia are still among the best in the business. NASA studied the RD-0120 for improvements to the SSME.

You may be right, it would cost too much. I just think that if we DO go with a heavy-lift, we should examine this option closely and not dismiss it out of hand.

Patrick

[Ballistic.]

It would probably be safe to assume that the Russians are trying to do everything the Americans are doing, and the Americans are trying to do everything the Russians are doing.

Such a shame that they dont just start working together.

Excellent post Abbyy, thankyou for sharing these pictures.

[DDAY]

punder wrote:
Actually much of the Energia still most certainly exists--the strap-on boosters are still in production as the Zenit first stage. The RD-170 is in production as the RD-180, which is all RD-170 parts except for the turbopump.


The core vehicle has been out of production for over 15 years. That qualifies as "old."


There are other mitigating factors that go beyond a simple yes/no. A collapsed roof, for example, does not equal complete destruction of the building. We build bigger roofs for football stadiums. Building and repairing large buildings is not that hard

I used to have a picture of the building. It is destroyed. I know someone who was there in the mid-1990s and said that it was clearly structurally unsound at that time--cracks in the walls, water inside, etc. It would essentially have to be torn down and rebuilt.


especially in the context of an international effort to explore the Moon and Mars.

There is no international effort to explore the Moon and Mars. There is an American effort to explore the Moon with robots and eventually humans, and Mars with robots. No other countries have signed on to this plan or even been formally asked to participate. The Russians are short on money and would want to be paid to build their contribution to any exploration plan.


And even if tooling is all gone (is it really? I wonder), blueprints certainly exist.

The point is not that it is impossible but that it would be expensive. It is not simply a case of restarting a dormant production line.


I just think that if we DO go with a heavy-lift, we should examine this option closely and not dismiss it out of hand.


Suppose the Russians estimate that it will cost $6 billion. Do you think it is realistic to convince the US Congress to spend $6 billion in Russia as opposed to the United States?



DDAY

[DDAY]

kurt9 wrote:
You say that Energia corporation is making hardware for a Mars trip and that financing is difficult.

Anyway that Energia can cut a deal with the Chinese? A JV (joint venture) deal where the Chinese put up some of the money and get to send some of their astronauts on the mission might work.

Has anyone discussed this?



Actually, he never said that it was a human Mars mission. I think he is referring to the Phobos-Soil robotic mission.

As for cutting a deal with the Chinese, it is not likely. China has a very slow and deliberate human spaceflight program, averaging only one launch about every 12-18 months. They do not want to spend the money on a fast-paced exploration program. And they are only spending the money so that they can create the spaceflight capability for themselves. They do not want to pay others to do it for them.

The Energia is a historical vehicle. It has not flown for 16 years.

[joka]

So if it would have reached operational status, the Sovjet Union would have had a laserbeam pointing at earth from space?

What kind of laserbeam are we talking about here? "Independence day City destroyer" or.. ?

I just re-read my post and noticed that I may have come across sarcastic, which wasen't my intention. Which is maybe why there has been no replies to my question.. .?

Anyway, I'm really curious about this "Laser space battle station". To my knowledge, even to this day humans have been unable to build a laserbeam powerful enough to be used as somesort of weapon ?? yes? no? And this space station was being developed in the 80's.. .

What was it's purpose cause it obviously couldn't have taken out cities like I speculated :lol:

[DDAY]

joka wrote:
Anyway, I'm really curious about this "Laser space battle station". To my knowledge, even to this day humans have been unable to build a laserbeam powerful enough to be used as somesort of weapon ?? yes? no? And this space station was being developed in the 80's.. .

What was it's purpose cause it obviously couldn't have taken out cities like I speculated

Reread the other posts on this. I already noted that it was intended to shoot down missiles, probably in boost phase. In other words, most of the firing would have been through space and thin atmosphere. It also carried missiles.

You are right to be skeptical. I doubt that this would have worked. And keep in mind that it was only a test vehicle, not an operational one.

[GDS Starfury]

Suppose the Russians estimate that it will cost $6 billion. Do you think it is realistic to convince the US Congress to spend $6 billion in Russia as opposed to the United States?


that would depend on the technology transfers going into US companies. A good argument can be made that while the up front cost of $6 billion might seem high the backend profits would be considerably more.

[aartamen]

Joka, there most definitely lasers that can be used as weapons. Some are entering deployment stage, some have been tested. There was a lot of talk about 20 years ago about Soviet strides to develop massive lasers. Just rumours. The Soviets were paranoidly secretive.

[DDAY]

GDS Starfury wrote:
that would depend on the technology transfers going into US companies. A good argument can be made that while the up front cost of $6 billion might seem high the backend profits would be considerably more.

Okay, if a "good argument can be made," make it. Explain also how this will get through without loud objections from US rocket makers Boeing and Lockheed-Martin. Also, explain how this will get through without loud objections from members of Congress. And for good measure, explain how this can be done without violating the provisions of the Iran Non-proliferation Act. Can you provide any previous examples of the United States spending billions of dollars to purchase a foreign rocket system?


DDAY

[Cifu]

My father was one of developers of shower and sauna for space station. Actually it was project for his graduation from institute. Leter when he came to Energia it became his job to implement both on space station. What he with developers team did for Mir space station.

So cosmonauts enjoyed not only shower but also good sauna during their missions. But one day bosses decided that sauna consumes too much energy and ordered to dismount it from station.

Cosmonauts of current mission said: no way, f***. Bosses were very angry but what can you do when thing which you want to destroy flies 300 kilometers above you. So when mission returned to earth and next team arrived to station they issued this order once again.

Next team said: umm... ok... after all experiments will be done....
Guess what happened. In result they sabotaged order too :)

So when third mission were about to launch military man was included who received strict orders to dissassemble sauna at any cost :) And he did this job.

So in turn my father was very angry and dissapointed :)

As i know, the exact history is a little different:

The Shower consumes not only too much energy, but too much water. In originaly, the Buran space shuttle make the transit route to MiR, but the Buran only fly once, and never fly to the MiR... So the needed resources for MiR are carried by the old way: the Progress space ships. But the Progress are far less capable, than the Buran-class shuttles, so, the resources are cutted down, wich means the water become luxury, and the crew can use the shower less and less time, and in the end, its never use any more, even, if the crew liked to use it. So the shower ended nothing more than a chest, filled with not needed stuf. The shower survived not only the third, but many more crews, then in 1995 the MiR needed new giroscopes for the MiR-STS rendezvous, and the Progress can carry only smaller size giros, can be used "indoor" the station, so must to find a place where the place it. The shower not used years ago, and wont needed, so cut in pieces, and stowaged to the Progress, which is brought the new giros...


PS: Sorry for my bad english.

[Cifu]

If you want to speak what can do the russians engineers, you might need to see the MAKS-OS (~Multipurpose Aerospace System - Orbital Spaceplane). It is a small space shuttle, developed by the NPO Molniya, wich start from the An-225 gigant cargo plane back (almost similar method that use the american Pegasus/Pegasus XL system). In generaly, the MAKS-OS are more capable, than the NASA OSP (now abadoned, and recreated in the CEV project) project, wich want to start from an expendable launch rocket top (Atlas V. or Delta IV.) . A wont hear from the MAKS-project years ago (probably financial problems)... sad, because i like it much...

http://www.space.hobby.ru/projects/maks_os_maket.jpg
Image of an An-225 maketl, carrying the MAKS-OS on her back.

MAKS @ Buran.ru - http://www.buran.ru/htm/molniya6.htm

[Abbyy]

If you want to speak what can do the russians engineers, you might need to see the MAKS-OS (~Multipurpose Aerospace System - Orbital Spaceplane). It is a small space shuttle, developed by the NPO Molniya, wich start from the An-225 gigant cargo plane back (almost similar method that use the american Pegasus/Pegasus XL system). In generaly, the MAKS-OS are more capable, than the NASA OSP (now abadoned, and recreated in the CEV project) project, wich want to start from an expendable launch rocket top (Atlas V. or Delta IV.) . A wont hear from the MAKS-project years ago (probably financial problems)... sad, because i like it much...

http://www.space.hobby.ru/projects/maks_os_maket.jpg
Image of an An-225 maketl, carrying the MAKS-OS on her back.

MAKS @ Buran.ru - http://www.buran.ru/htm/molniya6.htm

Never heard of it. Thanks for info :)

As for shower and sauna - this is long story and i heard it when i was a child. It seems you mixed up both while i didn't give exact details.

[RuSoKaR]

darm I am almost 100% sure that I saw on tv that this baby
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/maxokb2.jpg
was being experimented in a while ago... and it landed in the ocean and thatamericans were also trying to pick it up :P

[fdiddy]

Joka, there most definitely lasers that can be used as weapons. Some are entering deployment stage, some have been tested. There was a lot of talk about 20 years ago about Soviet strides to develop massive lasers. Just rumours. The Soviets were paranoidly secretive.

I didn't know there were any government military institutions that weren't paranoidly secretive?

[el_kab0ng]

BTW, this topic hit Slashdot this morning. Expect the bandwidth on militaryphotos to go through the roof for the next 24 to 48.

http://slashdot.org/

[hood]

Yeah I just noticed it a little while ago when things stopped working. :)

[Abolith]

F*cking slashdot ****heads. :)

[Alexey]

So if it would have reached operational status, the Sovjet Union would have had a laserbeam pointing at earth from space?

What kind of laserbeam are we talking about here? "Independence day City destroyer" or.. ?

I just re-read my post and noticed that I may have come across sarcastic, which wasen't my intention. Which is maybe why there has been no replies to my question.. .?

Anyway, I'm really curious about this "Laser space battle station". To my knowledge, even to this day humans have been unable to build a laserbeam powerful enough to be used as somesort of weapon ?? yes? no? And this space station was being developed in the 80's.. .

What was it's purpose cause it obviously couldn't have taken out cities like I speculated :lol:
Sorry for english .So . One of basic idea of this laser - knocking down of balloons with the espionage radio-electronic equipment which the countries of NATO did not stint during cold war. It very much irritated the Soviet management .. Has been yet reall functionable model of this laser, it was the most usual chemical laser, capacity a little bit megawatt. It has not found development as good relations with America (romantic time) at this time have been adjusted.. And we did not want problems.. Then there were other complexities..

[aartamen]

I didn't know there were any government military institutions that weren't paranoidly secretive?

Do you know that I can easily find out the phone number, name and rank of any US base or unit above batalion commander? It's open public information. How many divisions and where they are and what their order of battle is is also completely open. So are the characterstics of most of the hardware.
On the other hand the f**king bus schedule in Moscow used to be classified. There's paranoia and there's Soviet paranoia. But though they unclassified the bus schedules they still imprison people for espionage for producing reports from unclassified materials.

[thomthom]

punder wrote:
especially in the context of an international effort to explore the Moon and Mars.

There is no international effort to explore the Moon and Mars. There is an American effort to explore the Moon with robots and eventually humans, and Mars with robots. No other countries have signed on to this plan or even been formally asked to participate. The Russians are short on money and would want to be paid to build their contribution to any exploration plan.


What about the british lead Beagle project? http://www.beagle2.com/
Remember not many months back when you had the US Rover and the UK/EU Beagle landing on Mars around the same time.

[Abbyy]

BTW you can order 3CD set with huge load of info, photos and videos about Energia and Buran development.

Here->
http://www.buran.ru/htm/cd-rom.htm#volume

[Abbyy]

http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/tehnogr.gif

[Abbyy]

I didn't know there were any government military institutions that weren't paranoidly secretive?

Do you know that I can easily find out the phone number, name and rank of any US base or unit above batalion commander? It's open public information.

And?

How many divisions and where they are and what their order of battle is is also completely open. So are the characterstics of most of the hardware.

Good BS.

On the other hand the f**king bus schedule in Moscow used to be classified.
Bull****

There's paranoia and there's Soviet paranoia. But though they unclassified the bus schedules they still imprison people for espionage for producing reports from unclassified materials.

Bull**** and BS.
If something published on anonymous web site it doesn't means that you can violate security and join whistleblowers too. Information must be OFFICIALLY unclassified prior to be published.
When we received security clearance for access to secret information we were warned that it doesn't mean is any classified information already posted somewhere on Internet. If you'll begin to distribute it too you'll directly violate laws.

PS Also i would like to notice that i consider people like you as pure traitors of their native countries. You're free to choose where to live and do you become or do not become patriot of country where you live. But you're cheap evil clown if you're beginning to spread hate to country where you was born and raised.

[kineret]

thanks for the pics of Polius, i didnt even know this program existed. as a kid, i remember seeing the An-225 Mriya, jesus what an amazing plane. A mythical titan. Too bad you dont see them in use much due to the cost.

http://www.bearcraft-online.com/museum/photos/b.19.3.jpg

[Raistlin]

BTW, this topic hit Slashdot this morning.
http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/11/22/1159203.shtml

[Throbert McGee]

I'm peering at my monitor, trying to read the blurry Russian captions in the diagrams (I speak Russian pretty well, but it's a second language for me)


My brother-in-law is gonna flip when I send him the link to these photos...

[Throbert McGee]

Anyway, I'm really curious about this "Laser space battle station". To my knowledge, even to this day humans have been unable to build a laserbeam powerful enough to be used as somesort of weapon ?? yes? no? And this space station was being developed in the 80's..

I thought that the "theory" behind Laser Space Battle Stations (insert "Star Wars" SFX) is that they would fire their laser-light onto the metallic "skin" of ICBMs, causing the "skin" to rupture, which would destabilize the missles to such a degree that they would self-destruct before they could start the nuclear reactions. So you'd get a conventional explosion and a rain of radioactive materials over the landscape, but no KA-BOOM!

[KDF]

darm I am almost 100% sure that I saw on tv that this baby
http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/maxokb2.jpg
was being experimented in a while ago... and it landed in the ocean and thatamericans were also trying to pick it up :P

What you probably remember is the BOR-4..was photographed being recovered in the Indian Ocean in 1983:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/bor4.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/b/bor4p32.jpg

[KDF]

Anyway, I'm really curious about this "Laser space battle station". To my knowledge, even to this day humans have been unable to build a laserbeam powerful enough to be used as somesort of weapon ?? yes? no? And this space station was being developed in the 80's.. .


High energy lasers that could be used as weapons have been around for several decades now..however they couldn't be used for Practical military uses due to their large size and power requirements (not to mention the hot noxious exhaust fumes that many chemical lasers produce) ..most have been fixed in one location or mounted in large aircraft (US NKC-135, YAL-1, Soviet A-60). When you have a rocket as powerful as the Energiya you don't have to worry so much about making the payload small.

[nickname888]

http://art.vcmedia.net/bw.jpg

[Raistlin]

Good job. You might work more on your air distortion filters though :P

[MAXX]

Scalar weapons make ALL advanced weapons useless.
also known as TESLA HOWETZERS(excuse my spelling)
the reasons these projects (the laser) go forward are many but usually are for making money for influencial people, also to keep secret the REAL weapons of SCALAR technology by keeping the public focused on military "black ops" projects.
check out
WWW.CHENIERE.ORG
ALSO
SPACE ALIENS FROM THE PENTAGON
the elite are ALREADY on the moon and mars via electric craft that rerite conventional physic as we know it. flying saucers are us and are electrical.

[MAXX]

WWW.CHENIERE.ORG/BOOKS/PART1/TESLAWEAPONS.HTM

[jivedude]

http://k26.com/buran/Info/Polyus/polyus-energia.html

[redpig]

cool!!!

[layo]

Hi

As You have so strong USSR connections

Was / Is there any doubt among Russian Space Scientists
about the Apollo Moon Visits.

As passing VanAllen is 200,000 X-Rays, . .
How can these Astronauts be so old without cancer
.

I was always stunned they left no simple
radio transmitter on the moon and Hubble Never took
a photo of the "Moon Rover"

I'm so awaiting your answer ! ! ! . . . .

George Layo

[MAXX]

there is evidence that russians,americans,germans,(elite-those.-in the know), have already bases on the moonBEFORE the apollo missions.
Again they got there by electrical craft, probably discs. look up
Thomas Thompson Brown
(and this guy was a late comer to this Tesla technology)

project winterhaven

These rockets are considered "stone age " tech for the masses.
(whom the NWO considers cattle)
ALSO a "tesla dome"will destroy ANY rocket or aerospace platform that intersects it.

www.cheniere.org

[MAXX]

one more thing, on the interview called THE ELECTRICAL UNIVERSE
www.lauralee.com

the speed of an electron is two and a half MILLION light years a second!!!
Einstien was only fractionally correct.
this is based on new observations from recently launched satelites and mathematical/laboratory experiments.

[layo]

hé maxx
years ago I read
all from Scalar, Bearden, . . Naudin with OverUnit etc
I even use a medical Scalar Device , named "Pulsur"
perhaps you know for health.

But my questions about "Fake Apollo Missions" are more
realistic than any workable device from Mr Bearden .

Again :

No simple beeper left on the moon. Any thirdgrader would have done that !!!!!

George

[Flagg]

Soviet Union was developing laser space battle station Skif from beginning of 80's.
Length: 37 meters
Diameter: 4.1 meter
Weight: around 80 tons
It was supposed to be launched by Energia booster (same as for Buran shuttle)

http://www.army.lv/photos/3984.jpg

Unarmed prototype filled with scientific equipment was created around 1985 and launched 15 May 1987. It was failed to start operations and with the fall of Soviet Union project was scrapped.

My father personally participated in this project (he also worked on Mir and International Space Station projects) and he was very dissapointed with this failure as i remember. It was big blow for Energia Corp engineers.

http://www.army.lv/photos/3986.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3996.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3997.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3983.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3999.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3995.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3992.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3994.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3991.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3982.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3988.jpg

http://www.army.lv/photos/3989.jpg

Awesome photos Abbyy

I've always enjoyed reading about the Russian space program.

Thanks for sharing

[Raistlin]

Am I the only one who had a big "WTF" on his face while rading MAXX's and layo's posts?

[TheKiwi]

Nope, I think someone's tinfoil hat needs adjusting. It's picking up unauthorised mind control beams. :P

[Supercool_Dude]

Hi! I'm not interested in Polyus Spacecraft.

I'm interested in the Russian Mars Ship!

Nice pics!

It was a satellite built by the USSR as a Star Wars Weapon.

It was a giant orbiting machine gun in space that crashed into the Pacific Ocean.

The Russians say that that have a Mars Ship just like it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Mars_Ship

[MAXX]

condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance, but nice disinfo anyway.
(i think you could have done better than tinfoil hat though...)

check out the term ENDOTHERMIC EXPLOSION
IT WILL "CHILL" U

[MAXX]

WWW.CHENIERE.ORG/IMAGES/WEAPONS/COLDEXP1SM.JPG
WWW.CHENIERE.ORG/IMAGES/WEAPONS/ABMDEF1SM.JPG

[MAXX]

HTTP.CHENIERE.ORG/IMAGES/WEAPONS/INDEX.HTML

[Supercool_Dude]

But the Apollo Astronauts left a package called ALSEP that beamed back radio tansmissions data called Telemetry that were powered by Nuclear RTG's.

Last I heard back in 1980 they were still working!

Better call up NORAD! :bash:

[Johnny_H]

VERY INTERESTING man :D thanks
I also although I feel bad your father never got to see his work on this project flourish am happy it never came to be, that is i dunno just more then a lil bit of a threat seeing as Halifax was a Top targed western Navel Base in the cold war :( So a sigh of reliefe knowin that thing never made it to its proper role is granted IMO. However IM sure your father has had a very interesting career workin on the Soviet and Russian space plan, the Russians as far as space go's are the only ones goin right now with the shuttles grounded so maybe they could launch it and instead of a tactical nuke? fill it with small bags of candy? and launch at random cities?
so they can have it rain candy from teh sky? just a thought

[MAXX]

the cold war NEVER went away, that is propaganda. Now is is getting hotter.
we are already in the first stages of world war 3.


WWW.propagandamatrix.com

[bantik]

>About this station? Almost nothing. Secret thing, you know.
>As for Mir and ISS stations i can tell a lot of interesting stories.

NO !!!! (Sorry for my pure English. Translate better, if you can more time's)

Death of this station is interesting too. This station REALLY was started from russian Baikonur spaceport in 1987 year. Generals have counted charges of Energy rocket . It's was over 500 Mln $ .
For first launching ENERGY must by started with EMULATOR of space station - mass eq 30 000 Kg . This was unpossible - launch in Space 100 Kf sand and nuts . Russian general's give instruction -
To replace a cargo with real almost ready station . Time for performance - lower six months

But is the great problem - battle station was projected to ANOTHER spaceship. She have OTHER size of connection with BURAN (russian space like Shuttle-program ) comparsion. And scientist's find the good answer - battle station must launched with REVERSE direction (see picture - back side of battle station located on top of rocket's ). After start (5 min) - should be started turn-engine and turn station in normal position . For this purpose used ordinary mechanical hours with electric contact's group from another spaceship.

S-T-A-R-T !!!!! After start has passed five minutes ..... Sucessfull started turn-engine. Station turn at 180 degree ... Now should be started another turn-engine for a stop rotating ..... Trouble !!!!! The rocket continues to rotate and engine to a stop rotating is silent..... So the rocket rotating has burned down in an atmosphere ...

After investigation of time patterns it was found out that simultaneously with inclusion of second engine hours send command to SWITCH OFF all onboard electric network

Electric contact's group was from another spaceship with another time-to-do cycle diagramm !!! In the majority of satellites after the termination of work of the engine the network of a rocket is switched off and the network of the satellite is included to ON. This OFF cycle also has ruined a space station and rocket

And the command on deenergizing has been found in ALL reports of check of the mechanism !!! ... Only in conditions of shortage of time anybody did not read them ..

So the mistake of a clockwork has led to loss from above half billion dollars - rocket's, space station , special platform the cosmodrome

Do not save on testing & For peace space !!! :-)))

[Seoulstriker]

http://www.aerospaceguide.net/pics/buran_trans.jpg

Is that a US space shuttle?? Those boosters look awfully different, but the fuel and the shuttle look almost identical. What's with that.

[Abbyy]

http://www.aerospaceguide.net/pics/buran_trans.jpg

Is that a US space shuttle?? Those boosters look awfully different, but the fuel and the shuttle look almost identical. What's with that.

No.

center missile here is a main booster while for US shuttle it is just fuel tank

[Weasel]

I think it´s the Soviet space shuttle. It looks very similar to the US one.

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/mtkkman.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.buran.ru/htm/molniya5.htm&h=429&w=344&sz=68&tbnid=4YNrkIb8CMcJ:&tbnh=122&tbnw=98&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsoviet%2Bspace%2Bshuttle%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3Dlang_de%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:de-DE:official%26sa%3DN

[Cifu]

http://www.aerospaceguide.net/pics/buran_trans.jpg

Is that a US space shuttle?? Those boosters look awfully different, but the fuel and the shuttle look almost identical. What's with that.



Thats the Russian Space Shuttle, called "Buran". For first look, it's very similar to the US STS system, but in depth the two system are quite diferent. The Soviets are use a big booster rocket (called "Energia") to reach the space, the shuttle itself wont have (larger) engines, while in the US system the shuttle have three large H2-O2 engines, a large fuel tank, and two solid booster rocket. The Buran fly only once, in 1988, then the program are seized because the lack of money. The only Buran flight are managed fully automated, without on-board crew, and has 100% succefull.

If you wanna know more, look at this web site: http://www.k26.com/buran/Info/energia_-_buran.html

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/spacecraft/buran/buran-pad.jpg
The Buran-Energia before launch.

[Baron Harkonnen]

MIR-2

http://img143.echo.cx/img143/3966/39840fl.jpg

[Baron Harkonnen]

http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/gubanov.jpg

http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/pole51.jpg

http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/pole91.jpg

From

http://www.buran.ru/

[Baron Harkonnen]

http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/pole31.jpg

[ElHombre]

nice pics, baron. :)

[M4ko]

Russians anounced their moon and mars missions right after US announced theirs. Except Russians said they will get to mars by 2014 while US are aiming at 2030.

[Seoulstriker]

http://www.aerospaceguide.net/pics/buran_trans.jpg

Is that a US space shuttle?? Those boosters look awfully different, but the fuel and the shuttle look almost identical. What's with that.



Thats the Russian Space Shuttle, called "Buran". For first look, it's very similar to the US STS system, but in depth the two system are quite diferent. The Soviets are use a big booster rocket (called "Energia") to reach the space, the shuttle itself wont have (larger) engines, while in the US system the shuttle have three large H2-O2 engines, a large fuel tank, and two solid booster rocket. The Buran fly only once, in 1988, then the program are seized because the lack of money. The only Buran flight are managed fully automated, without on-board crew, and has 100% succefull.

If you wanna know more, look at this web site: http://www.k26.com/buran/Info/energia_-_buran.html

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/spacecraft/buran/buran-pad.jpg
The Buran-Energia before launch.

Whoa, I did not know that! Thanks for the story. :)

[jmatucd]

heh, here we are lauding the soviet's failed SDI project which is now public, but we do not speak of succeses here in the states... because they are just that.

[Berkut]

Abbyy,
Please thank you father for me, people like him make all of us russians proud.

[Berkut]

GDS Starfury wrote:
that would depend on the technology transfers going into US companies. A good argument can be made that while the up front cost of $6 billion might seem high the backend profits would be considerably more.

Okay, if a "good argument can be made," make it. Explain also how this will get through without loud objections from US rocket makers Boeing and Lockheed-Martin. Also, explain how this will get through without loud objections from members of Congress. And for good measure, explain how this can be done without violating the provisions of the Iran Non-proliferation Act. Can you provide any previous examples of the United States spending billions of dollars to purchase a foreign rocket system?


DDAY
Yes,
The US purchased not so long ago Russian rocket boosters, they also bought Russian missiles and planes.

[Berkut]

one more thing, on the interview called THE ELECTRICAL UNIVERSE
www.lauralee.com

the speed of an electron is two and a half MILLION light years a second!!!
Einstien was only fractionally correct.
this is based on new observations from recently launched satelites and mathematical/laboratory experiments.
What the HELL are talking about?? :bash: Half a million light years a second what??! I'd like to see you prove that!

[Supercool_Dude]

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2169/burandamaged7jm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here is an image I have of Buran damaged irrepairably after the hangar collapsed on it killing about 8 workers.

[Dima-RussianArms]

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2169/burandamaged7jm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here is an image I have of Buran damaged irrepairably after the hangar collapsed on it killing about 8 workers.

Something had definitely collapsed but it doesn't look like "Buran", when did it happen, any links?

[Paracaidista]

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2169/burandamaged7jm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here is an image I have of Buran damaged irrepairably after the hangar collapsed on it killing about 8 workers.

Something had definitely collapsed but it doesn't look like "Buran", when did it happen, any links?

I only feel like crying :'(

[Drunkensquid]

buran:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/buran-00a.html

[Paracaidista]

buran:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/buran-00a.html

Yes, thats one of them. Disgraceful fate :petting:

[Drunkensquid]

buran:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/buran-00a.html

Yes, thats one of them. Disgraceful fate :petting:


Wasn't a Los Angeles radio station going to buy one of them?

[ChuckThunder]

I remember an episode of the "new" Johnny Quest (now like 10 years old) where terrorists (I think they were Ezekiel Rage's men) took over Kennedy Space Center, stranding U.S. Astronauts in a space station. Race Bannon took a Russian Space Shuttle to the space station to rescue them. Sorry, this thread caused me to remember that.

[Cifu]

buran:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/buran-00a.html

Ohhh.... that crappy sources... :P

No. Thats not the Buran, thats the OK-TVA, an test-mockup.

If you interest whats is the Story of the russian shuttles, go there: http://www.k26.com/buran/Info/energia_-_buran.html

[drfunk]

your father gets my utmost respect. I love Energiya's work

[budgie]

How come it had 'Mir 2' written on the side? Was it a trick to throw everyone off?

[dunkin]

Nice post, thanks for sharing.

[Abbyy]

How come it had 'Mir 2' written on the side? Was it a trick to throw everyone off?

It based on some elements of Mir-2 hull.

[Satellite Weapon]

Is golden age of Russian space science still ahead? http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20060904/53468937.html Despite the troubled times in the 1990s, Russia is still a great space power. It is enough to mention that it is the leader in the number of space launches, accounting for 40% of the world's carrier missile launches in the 2001-2005 period. Regrettably, the majority of them were commercial launches of foreign space vehicles, as well as Soyuz and Progress spaceships for supporting the International Space Station.

[khukuri]

wow.........cant believe I missed this thread.

[Antimatty]

awesome thread.