New Zealand SAS

[new zealander]

Does enyone have pictures of New Zealands special air service.

Thanks

[Jack Mehoff]

They have British SAS, Aussie SASR and New Zealand SAS?

WTF is going on? why can't you guys make a better name for your special operation? rofl I don't care if you name your special ops KICK ASS, as long as it's not SAS because it's overused

[bikewrench]

Why don't you look into history to see why?
You know how all of those commonwealth countries are into preserving regiments right? Well, aussie nz and britain all had members in the original LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) which became the SAS.
There are some really good books on it but I don't have any titles for ya.
Adam

[Registered_fugitiv]

Sure mate Ive got some NZ SAS pics Give me your email and I will send you what Ive got

[Co17]

Here are a few, they are really hard to come by p-)

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/New_Zealand/trooplift.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/New_Zealand/patroljump.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/New_Zealand/exercise3.gif

[EvanL]

canada used to have an SAS regiment as well.

[96B]

Special Air Service sounds like a competitor to UPS or FedEX to me...

[USMarine3521]

Special Air Service sounds like a competitor to UPS or FedEX to me...

imo i think force recon is the coolest name

[ogukuo72]

Why don't you look into history to see why?
You know how all of those commonwealth countries are into preserving regiments right? Well, aussie nz and britain all had members in the original LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) which became the SAS.
There are some really good books on it but I don't have any titles for ya.
Adam

Just to elaborate on that. There was originally only one SAS that was disbanded after WW2. During the Malayan Emergency, it was found that a specialised unit was needed to conduct counter-insurgency warfare in the thick jungles of Malaya using specialised techniques like tracking, ambush, hearts and minds campaign etc..

The 22nd SAS was re-constituted to conduct such operations. (The history of the modern SAS can more properly be traced to the Malayan Emergency rather than the LRDG of WW2 fame.) They were so successful that more SAS units were raised from other Commonwealth countries like Australia, New Zealand and Rhodesia. Initially, all of them operated using the same techniques under a single command. When the Malayan Emergency ended, these units went back to their own countries, and from there, developed in their own way. That's why they were all called SAS.

[Gordon]

Why don't you look into history to see why?
You know how all of those commonwealth countries are into preserving regiments right? Well, aussie nz and britain all had members in the original LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) which became the SAS.
There are some really good books on it but I don't have any titles for ya.
Adam

Actually the SAS was not born from the LDRG. They both came about during WW2 and, as far as I can remember, the LRDG was in existence before the SAS in the role of recon in the desert, hence the name. The SAS was created by David Stirling, Paddy Mayne and others whose names I cannot remember. The connection between the LRDG and the SAS is that the LRDG often helped transport the SAS to and from targets in the desert, the LRDG were recognised as masters in the desert by both the locals and western/allied soldiers involved in the area.

[ogukuo72]

Forgot to add that the reason why the Special AIR Service was chosen was that one of the specialised techniques was insertion by parachute. This was before the days of mass helicopter insertion (like the Vietnam War Air Cav units). SAS troopers jumped directly onto the tall jungle canopy (off the ground by as much as 100 feet), then lower themselves from the trees using ropes.

I've seen old photographs from the Emergency days of this daring technique. Anyone of us who had been in the jungle would know that it takes a special kind of courage to do something like this.

I also noticed that in many of the photos, the troopers were carrying the Australian submachine gun with the top-mounted magazines. Can't remember the name of that gun. Don't know if these are representatives of the Australian SAS or if that was a preferred weapon to the Stens.

[Dominique]

You forgot to mention Popski's Private Army in the SAS's history. Also, If i remember correctly the name Special Air Service was choosen becuse they were airborne qualified and they used it to confuse the Axis as to what their true role was.

[Gordon]

Popski's private army and the SAS were two different units. I think, as you said, the name Special Air Service Brigade was chosen to confuse the enemy and, as far as I can remember, it was to do with creating the impression to the enemy that the SAS was far larger than it actually was, ie. that it was a unit of Brigade strength rather than a few hundred soldiers.

[Royal]

Forgot to add that the reason why the Special AIR Service was chosen was that one of the specialised techniques was insertion by parachute.

Wrong. L Detachment binned parachuting after 2 jumps (one training and one operational went badly wrong). As Gordon says, the name was chosen to make the Germans believe there was an Airborne Bde in Egypt. BTW, for most of WWII (41 -43) most members of the different SAS regiments were not jump qualified. It wasn't unitil Ops in Northern Italy and France that parachuting became a major tactic.



I also noticed that in many of the photos, the troopers were carrying the Australian submachine gun with the top-mounted magazines. Can't remember the name of that gun. Don't know if these are representatives of the Australian SAS or if that was a preferred weapon to the Stens.

The Owen Gun. Chosen because it was far better than the God awful STEN Gun. M1 carbines and shotguns were also widely used at this time.


Just to elaborate on that. There was originally only one SAS that was disbanded after WW2.

There were 5 SAS Regiments by the spring of 1945. 1, 2 & 3 SAS were British and Empire (read Commonwealth), 4 was French and 5 was Belgian (the reason the Belgian Para Commandos still wear a red beret with the flaming sword (not winged dagger) - by 1944 the SAS were considered Airbourne, so lost the sand beret. They didn't get it back until 1960 (later still for the Kiwis)).


They were so successful that more SAS units were raised from other Commonwealth countries like Australia, New Zealand and Rhodesia. Initially, all of them operated using the same techniques under a single command. When the Malayan Emergency ended, these units went back to their own countries, and from there, developed in their own way. That's why they were all called SAS.

3 Squadrons (Rhodesian, Kiwi and Aussie) were raised in 1952 to agument the reservists of 21 SAS who had been mobilised for the Emergancy. 22 SAS was created as a temporary command structure for these Squadrons and another raised in theatre from British units there. This structure was quickly formalised and selection and training returned to the UK to be coordinated by Dare Newell.

The Regiment was to be disbanded as the Emergency wound down (ie we beat the CT's). The Commonwealth Squadrons did indeed return home and indirectly led to the creation of SAS units in those countries. The first Dhofar war was starting at the time and the head shed talked their way in to it. 22 SAS was formalised as a part of the British Armys ORBAT.

[Dominique]

Popski's private army and the SAS were two different units. I think, as you said, the name Special Air Service Brigade was chosen to confuse the enemy and, as far as I can remember, it was to do with creating the impression to the enemy that the SAS was far larger than it actually was, ie. that it was a unit of Brigade strength rather than a few hundred soldiers.

PPA, LRDG, and the SAS were all seperate units, but they performed alot of thesame missions or worked together on several occassions. Unlike the LRDG, which was disbanded, PPA continued to mount operations in Italy. including raids, ambushes, prisoner snatches, and the insertion of agents. Sound familiar? ;)

[Royal]

Unlike the LRDG, which was disbanded, PPA continued to mount operations in Italy. including raids, ambushes, prisoner snatches, and the insertion of agents. Sound familiar? ;)

The LRDG was disbanded in 1945. It was involved in operations in North Africa, Greece & the Eastern Med, The Balkans and Adriatic and finally Italy.

[ogukuo72]

[quote="Royal
Wrong. L Detachment binned parachuting after 2 jumps (one training and one operational went badly wrong). As Gordon says, the name was chosen to make the Germans believe there was an Airborne Bde in Egypt. BTW, for most of WWII (41 -43) most members of the different SAS regiments were not jump qualified. It wasn't unitil Ops in Northern Italy and France that parachuting became a major tactic.[/quote]

Thanks. Look like I got some of the facts wrong! Time I get the guys in the education section to revise their lecture material on the Malayan Emergency. :)

Btw, do you have any reference material on what you wrote above. Might help us in updating our material.

[ilxAudrey]

If I remember correctly, Royal, the SAS "winged dagger" is actually Damocles' sword, right?

[Royal]

If I remember correctly, Royal, the SAS "winged dagger" is actually Damocles' sword, right?

Right


Thanks. Look like I got some of the facts wrong! Time I get the guys in the education section to revise their lecture material on the Malayan Emergency.

No worries. Tree jumping was used in Malaya in the early 1950's (and to a much lesser extent later in Borneo), but it was never very effective due to the horrendous casualty rates.

For open source on early SAS history. Try Tony Geraghty's book (I think called "Who Dares Wins", not read it for years and it gets ropier as we come to the 80's but... Failing that try looking at biogs for Stirling, Blair-Maine, Lewes etc.

[ogukuo72]

Thanks.

When it comes to counter-insurgency warfare, it's hard to beat the amount of experience and expertise accumulated by the Brits over the past fifty years. The British and Commonwealth may not have always won their wars (e.g. the Palestine Mandate and Aden), but their track record (Malaya, Oman, the Konfrontasi) still stood out in comparison with American failures.

The Americans are getting into trouble with insurgents again, this time in Iraq. It's time they take a leaf out of the Brits' play book and re-look at what they are doing on the ground.

[Dominique]

The LRDG was disbanded in 1945. It was involved in operations in North Africa, Greece & the Eastern Med, The Balkans and Adriatic and finally Italy.[/quote]

I could have sworn it was PPA that went to the Balkans, Italy and the med and the LRDG got disbanded. I could be wrong, but I double check to make sure.

[Royal]

I could have sworn it was PPA that went to the Balkans, Italy and the med and the LRDG got disbanded. I could be wrong, but I double check to make sure.

PPA did serve in the Eastern Med, particularly Greece and Italy. So did the SOE, LRDG, SAS, SBS, Army and Royal Marine Commandos and the Parachute Regiment (and probably a few other 'special forces' (used in it's WWII sense, rather than modern one) I've forgotton).

[DerekZoolander]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629375&ref=rss


New Zealand's elite SAS troops have been involved in another firefight in Afghanistan, and once again press photographers have captured them in action.
Prime Minister John Key said yesterday that up to 15 Special Air Service soldiers were part of an Afghan-led force that turned out when a car bomb explosion killed eight civilians in Kabul on Friday.
In the aftermath, they fought Taleban rebels in a guesthouse for about an hour.
By the time the battle was over, a total of at least 17 people had been killed.
French photographer Lionel de Coninck was on hand at the end of the 90-minute shootout and captured images of the New Zealand soldiers.
"The SAS guys, they went straight into the hotel and the whole street was blocked by police," de Coninck told 3 News last night.
"We could not see what was exactly going on in the guesthouse. After an hour, hour-and-a-half of fighting inside the hotel, they walked right out and left the scene pretty quietly and armed."

Mr Key earlier confirmed that "some members of the SAS" were fired upon by insurgents and had returned fire."Before the insurgents could be apprehended by Afghan security forces, they blew themselves up. No SAS personnel were hurt. There were some civilian casualties from the initial car bomb blast."
Mr Key said the SAS were likely to be involved in further combat. "The SAS are there to act on what is required of them. Some of that is combat."
The details follow the Prime Minister's decision last month to reveal more details of SAS operations.
He said Friday's incident was the first instance of a shootout where the SAS had opened fire that he was aware of since he had started receiving such reports.
The Al Jazeera news service reported that the first blast occurred about 6.45am, local time, near Kabul's largest shopping centre in the main commercial district. Two smaller ones followed.
Gunfire broke out as a crisis team and emergency services arrived.
Kabul correspondent Hoda Abdel-Hamid described the attack as Taleban defiance in the face of a major Nato-led offensive in the bloodier Helmand province to the south.
"An attack like this one sends a message that no one is really safe, that even a city like Kabul, with heavy security, is not safe from the conflict any more."

Didn't know if it was posted or not. Interesting to note but isn't this the 2nd or 3rd recent comment the PM has had on SAS activity in Afghanistan. Seems the press is suddenly SAS hungry to sell papers.

[Waterman]

Good on ya boys !

The SAS has always been "the quiet professionals"

[goat89]

Jesus christ! I thought the title meant the NZSAS were getting sh*t from the media and gov. >< Good to know they are willing to take up the fight though.

[jackc]

well i guess that blows the cover story that they were deployed to Bamyan Prov to watch the reconstruction team stack bricks
deployed with the UKSAS (sas)in Helmand makes much more sense with the AUSAS (sasr)in the adjacent prov for get togethers

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

There's never been a 'cover story' about them being deployed to Bamian.

They're not in Helmand either.

It's been reported openly for months where they are and what they are doing.

[jackc]

my bad, i had a lapse and thought kabul was a town in helmond, it isnt
i thought i read they were with the NZ reconstruction in bamyan training ghan soldiers
i havent read anything about nz forces for months to correct my thinking

edit
this was the sort of info that was around in mid 09
Some 70 SAS personnel will be sent in three rotations, initially lasting 18 months. They will join the 130 New Zealand troops serving as Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT), which will remain in Afghanistan for another five years, “re-aligned” to help train the Afghan police. Key also announced a beefed-up civilian role in Bamiyan province with a focus on agriculture, health and education

[Albatross]

"The SAS are there to act on what is required of them. Some of that is combat."

Then what the hell is the other some?

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Cruisin for bitches.

Punking Americans.

The usual.

[goat89]

Cruisin for bitches.

Punking Americans.

The usual.
Sweet. Rock on NZSAS. :D

PS: Woah woah woah Wait. What do they do to Aussies then? :O

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Laugh at them.

The usual.

[Albatross]

Cruisin for bitches.

Punking Americans.

The usual.


Laugh at them.

The usual.

I see someone has been in the bottle again...........

[trunk_munkey28]

Cruisin for bitches.

Punking Americans.

The usual.
You forgot robbing everyone else blind. Also, mis****ouncing vowels.

[Creampuff]

123456789.....

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I see someone has been in the bottle again...........

Switch your gaydar to standby, your panties are showing.

[Albatross]

Switch your gaydar to standby, your panties are showing.

Why are you looking at my ass?



fag.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

You've been working out, haven't you?

[Flagg]

You forgot robbing everyone else blind.

Prove it!

According to Sub Chapter 4 Dash 3 of the Auckland Convention of International Law anything that is painted with a black or white Kiwi stencil silhouette whereby the paint is at least semi-dry becomes ipso facto the property of the NZDF, with all prior property ownership evidence and claims becoming moot.

[digrar]

Sweet. Rock on NZSAS. :D

PS: Woah woah woah Wait. What do they do to Aussies then? :O


Laugh at them.

The usual.

Try and put 40mm holes in our choppers, while they're still sitting in them, the usual...

[Flagg]

Try and put 40mm holes in our choppers, while they're still sitting in them, the usual...

I think you might be slightly mistaken......I heard that was a speed hole..........or more specifically, a high SPEED low drag HOLE.........

[digrar]

Handy to have a hole there, there would have been some urgent need for ****ting going on I would have thought... :)

[DerekZoolander]

my bad, i had a lapse and thought kabul was a town in helmond, it isnt
i thought i read they were with the NZ reconstruction in bamyan training ghan soldiers
i havent read anything about nz forces for months to correct my thinking

edit
this was the sort of info that was around in mid 09
Some 70 SAS personnel will be sent in three rotations, initially lasting 18 months. They will join the 130 New Zealand troops serving as Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT), which will remain in Afghanistan for another five years, “re-aligned” to help train the Afghan police. Key also announced a beefed-up civilian role in Bamiyan province with a focus on agriculture, health and education


I guess once that mandate ends the SAS most likely won't be returning.

[budgie]

Hope not a repost:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8272545/sas-paid-for-interaction-with-businessmen/

Seems like businessmen were shelling $500 a head for an 'open day' at Papakura. Is the unit a little short of funding?

[BLUE THOR]

Direct Capital had "indicated a desire" to make a charitable donation to the NZSAS Trust, established in 2004 to support past and present SAS soldiers and their families. Sir Wilson Wineray is chairman of the trust

sounds like thats where the money went....
I've seen suckier open days, so if they put on an open day and manage to get a donation out of it, I say well done.

[vinny_121_ND]

That's money well spent. No need for an investigation which will cost more tax dollars.

[WKD]

There are probably rules regarding this sort of thing. If they broke then there are probably rules as to what happens then. I guess it's between them and the MoD.

[Maverick82]

Please post NZSAS pics here

[TheKiwi]

Have you had a look in here: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?150690-New-Zealand-Defence-Forces

[digrar]

Please post NZSAS pics here

Always nice to start a thread with a contribution of your own, or to do a search and see if a similar thread is already running, like this one. Merged.

[BafuD]

8 years? God damn.