Operation Urgent Fury

[NcDeuce]

Good learning experience for our armed forces, especially for special operations in joint missions.

URGENT FURY
http://www.nightstalkers.com/urgent_fury/default.html

On October 19, 1983, Grenadian Prime Minister Maurice Bishop and a number of his top aides were executed by the People's Revolutionary Army (PRA), on orders from a radical new political group known as the "Revolutionary Military Council." Intending to replace Bishop's Marxist government with an even more virulent Marxist regime, General Hudson Austin and his sixteen member RMC quickly moved to assume control of the island-nation. Fears of the possibility of a new Soviet ally so close to U.S. shores (a fear bolstered by the recent construction of a 10,000 foot runway capable of handling the largest military transports), and the fact that hundreds of US citizens resided in Grenada and might possibly be in danger, caused President Reagan to act to prevent a potentially grave situation from developing. He authorized the US military to intervene effect a noncombatant evacuation operation (NEO) to rescue the American students and, in no small part, to restore a more mainstream government on Grenada.

The two primary objectives were Fort Rupert and Richmond Hill prison. Fort Rupert, which intelligence reported was housing the core of senior advisors to General Austin, was collectively known as the Revolutionary Council. Richmond Hill prison which held scores of illegally imprisoned civil servants and other citizens arrested by the oppressive RMC regime. Ideally, of course, the commandos would have preferred to conduct these operations at night, under cover of darkness. These conditions, too, were favored by the pilots and crew from the Army's elite, and also newly formed, 160th Special Operations Group, known also as Task Force 160, but better known as the "Night Stalkers". Flying MH-60 Black Hawks and AH/MH-6 "Little Birds", the 160th had been raised to provide the US SOF community with an all-weather, day/night helicopter capability. One primary 160th mission was the covert infiltration and exfiltration of SOF personnel into hostile locations. Such would be their tasking in Grenada. Upon receiving word of the pending actions in Grenada, the 160th dispatched a number of Black Hawks from Fort Campbell, Kentucky to a nearby island staging area on Barbados. The "Little Birds" were simultaneously transported by Air Force C-130 and C-5 cargo planes to the same secret location. It was here that they met up with the Commando troopers recently arrived from Fort Bragg.

The Richmond Hill prison was built on the site of an old fort, overlooking the town of St. George's. The prison, in turn, was overlooked by Fort Frederick, at the time a fully-manned garrison outpost used by the People's Revolutionary Army. Between the two locations was a small valley, and it was through this valley that the assault team would have to fly. Upon arrival at the prison, the helicopters would move to their predestinated location around the facility, slow quickly to a hover, then the teams would immediately fastrope to the ground and execute their assault.

The original plan called for a nine ship flight, ferrying both commandos and elements of Charlie Company, 1/75th Rangers, departing at approximately 0100 hours. Due to chaotic planning and last minute interservice bickering at senior levels, however, they would not leave until 0630, over five hours behind schedule. This meant that instead of racing in to the objective unseen, under cover of darkness, the airmobile assault would take place in the stark light of the rising sun. Any enemy defenders (already alerted due to a the fact that the conventional invasion had begun hours earlier) would have the advantage in defense. Still, had the pre-assault intelligence of lightly-armed prison guards at the objective been correct, this situation may not have been as disastrous as it would prove to be.

When the nine Black Hawks raced toward the prison, however, it was clear that intelligence had failed them. Two enemy gun emplacements, which intel had not predicted, were visible on a ridge approximately 150 feet higher than the prison - a perfect location to engage any forces trying to land nearby. At home flying at night, the darkly-painted helicopters stood out clearly in the morning sunlight. Enemy gunners were able to acquire the helicopters visually and took advantage of the opportunity. As the first flight of commandos and Rangers approached, they were immediately taken under fire from the ZSU-23-2 (twin 23mm) guns at medium to close range. In the first volley of AAA gunfire, one Black Hawk was shot down as it raced along the coast. Due to the heavy volume of AAA being directed at them, it quickly became clear that this was virtually impossible without putting all involved at extreme, and unacceptable, risk. With close air support aircraft engaged at other locations across the island, elimination of the defenses was impossible - despite valiant attempts at providing suppressive fire by 160th Black Hawk pilots and crewmen. The stricken flight could do nothing but abort the assault and head back to base. This mission would be attempted once again shortly after, however it would prove equally unsuccessful.

At Fort Rupert, however, the situation was much different. Arriving by helicopter, troopers assaulted the complex and rounded up their quarry quickly, without sustaining casualties. Their mission completed, the team called for extraction from the 160th who arrived and transported both the commandos and the detainees to the USS Guam offshore for questioning and formal processing by officials.

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/usa_grenada_invasion_map_001.gif

[Merik]

A big problem I have always noticed while reading about Grenada is when the Rangers came in they didnt land on high ground. And because they didnt there was an enemy AA gun up on the damn hill right next to them that shot up thier helos. There was also very poor intelligence on thier LZ. Plus they didnt have any fire support.

[ogukuo72]

You might call Grenada a prototype for the "new model" US military. It was the first major military operation after Vietnam War, and was also the first after the US military had been turned into a fully professional fighting force. On a unit level, I believe that it was the first major action seen by spec-ops units like the 160 and Delta.

Noteworthy is the heavy use made of spec-ops forces to open the door. Not strictly a first, but seemed to have served as a model for all subsequent conflicts.

[NcDeuce]

Yep.

p-)

[martinexsquaddie]

interesting fact even maggie thought the OP was a bit over the top especially as grenada is even further from the states than Cuba.
More like ronnie saw the falklands thought I'll have some of that and found the weakest possible oppostion and still made an amazing balls up of the entire op :roll:

[Ranger Matt]

I jumped into Grenada with B Co, 1-75 Rangers 20 years ago as an Seargent. As time has past, I beleive many have lost the true meaning of what Grenada accomplished for us all--I see it as an awakening from the low morale and dark post-Viet Nam days for the Army, and our nation. Not to dillute the efforts and sacrafices of the Viet Nam veterans and Senior NCOs who raised me as a young Ranger during the early '80s, but Grenada was the first successful post Viet Nam operation for the US Army, and the Special Operations Command as a new organization, displaying to the world that we CAN project power in support of our national policy! We have coordinated a 20th Grenada Anniversary ceremony and basic Ranger gathering this October 24-25th at Hunter Army Airfield (HAAF) Savannah, Georgia starting at 1200 hours on Friday. All Rangers, friends, family, and supporters are welcome. If interested, contact me at RgrMatt@aol.com.

[martinexsquaddie]

invading a country to prove your military can work is a bit pathetic.
Grenada was'nt really a threat to the US or any of its neighbours.
The invasion was competely over the top

[Argyll]

I think Martin that because there were American Students caught up in some kind of coup,or something like that,it was deemed a threat to US personnel,and hence the Invasion was given the green light.
I think that the SOF troops would've been able to pull off a rescue of some sorts,without having an al lout invasion!!

[NcDeuce]

There is no "over the top" in war.

[Trigger]

There is no "over the top" in war.
No, only in your posts. Lighten up kid, save some of that attitude for the Q course.

[martinexsquaddie]

well its Hardly a war when the mission is to resecue some medical students and invade a Golf course :lol:

[Argyll]

It is if you're teeing off at 0900!! rofl

[NcDeuce]

well its Hardly a war when the mission is to resecue some medical students and invade a Golf course

Invasion
The US units involved in Urgent Fury started moving on the evening of 23 October. The Plan for the operation called for a combined initial attacks by rangers, marines, and paras, partially deployed from the air, and in part by amphibious landings. These were first to capture both airfields, and then neuralgic points around Grenada.
Of course, the first wave was to a large degree to consist of units for special purposes, like USN SEALs and US Army DELTA Force operators. Both were deployed to Grenada during the night to 24 October, with the help of Lockheed MC-130 Combat Talons of the 8th SOS, using the HALO-jump technique. The SEALs and DELTAs first took positions from which they could observe the situation on the two airfields, as the US commanders realized that they were lacking proper intelligence, and even the SR-71-overflights could not properly help.

Right from the start, the special troops encountered severe problems: for example, a group of SEALs jumped too far from the coast and fell into the water. Four operators did not manage to get free of their chutes and heavy equipment, and drowned. All lacked good maps of Grenada (in fact, most of the troops went into the battle using tourist maps), and time and again the operators stumbled over completely unknown enemy positions. Nevertheless, the insertions of special troops remained undetected.

On the other side, on the morning of 24 October a Cuban Antonov An-24 landed at Pearl, bringing the Col. Comaz to the island. Comaz was to take over the command of 53 Cuban instructors and 636 workers and lead them into the fight against the Americans. He could not do much, however, as there was simply not enough time. In the night from 24 to 25 October, around 2200hrs local time, additional SEALs were deployed to the northern coast of Grenada, where they were to do reconnaissance of the eventual defenses on local beaches. But, their reports – exactly like those from the troops deployed the night before – brought no good news: the beaches were surrounded by coral reefs, and no amphibious landings were possible. On the first view, it appeared as if the whole operation would have to be cancelled. But, this was not possible any more, as at the same time as the additional SEALs were deployed to Grenada, already the first Lockheed C-130E Hercules transports of the 314th 317th, 459th, and 463rd TAW USAF, as well as the C-130Es of the 913rd TAW were starting from their bases in the USA, loaded with rangers of 82nd Airborne. The Hercules‘ were escorted by five MC-130Es, carrying rangers of the 75th Regiment, and a single Lockheed AC-130H Spectre-gunship of the 16th SOS/1st SOW, which were to lead the attack against Point Salines. During their ten-hours long flight, the transports had to be refueled two times in the air from Boeing KC-135s.


The invasion of Grenada was to start with simultaneous strikes at both airfields on the island, so to immediately cut off the Cubans and Grenadese defense forces, as well as to ascertain an undisturbed flow of supplies and enable reinforcements to be brought forward. (US DoD)


The Battle for Point Salines
Around 0500hrs local time, the sole AC-130H arrived over the Point Salines airfield, and found the runway blocked. This revelation caused the commander of the battle group that was about to land there to change the plan in the last moment – while in the air, approaching the target. There was not to be any kind of an amphibious landing, and the Hercules were not to land on Salines in order to disgorge rangers: not only the first blow but also the whole initial invasion had to be delivered from the air. While the troops aboard the Hercules-transports now started getting ready for a jump over the airfields, aboard the USS Guam the marines were forced to get ready for a heliborne deployment, using Boeing-Vertol CH-46E Sea Knight helicopters, escorted by Bell AH-1T Cobras of the HML-167. Their attack against the Pearl airfield, however, had to be postponed due to strong rain.

The whole US operation was now on a brink of a failure – before it even properly started.

The Marines were not to stop, however: the heavily loaded helicopters took off nevertheless, formed a column and took a course towards Grenada. Around 0520hrs, they exited the rain right above the target, and landed immediately. The sudden arrival of the helicopters and a considerable number of the marines despite the bad weather took the defenders completely by surprise: most were captured almost in a state of shock and panic. By 0630hrs, not only the Pearl airfield, but also the nearby town of Grenville were under the US control.

At Point Salines, however, the matters developed differently. The five MC-130Es and the single AC-130H first had to orbit off Grenada, waiting for the remaining Hercules transports and additional Gunships, so to be able to start a massive onslaught and overpower the enemy by their sheer numbers, but also in order to give rangers enough time to ready for the jump into combat. Once everybody was ready, the transports formed a long column, lead by an AC-130H that had the commander of the 75th Rangers, Col. Hunter, aboard, and five MC-130s, and then turned towards Grenada, flying at a very low level, in order to evade early detection by the Cuban radars. On the end of the column, two additional AC-130Hs were positioned.
As soon as the first AC-130 arrived over Salines, the Cubans and the PRA-troops opened fierce anti-aircraft fire. Col. Hunter immediately ordered all AC-130s to suppress the enemy AAA, but the first ingress for the drop of the paras had to be aborted, and the whole column turned away. One of the Hercules-crews misunderstood the order, however, and dropped its paras right into the defensive fire: as in a wonder, not a single of 30 troops was injured, and – supported by the AC-130s – they were swift to organize and start their attack. Nevertheless, the Grenades flaks damaged two Gunships and also a single MC-130E, before the rangers fought them down, around 0615hrs. Now the whole column of transports came back and in the following minutes 250 rangers jumped from a level of only 220 meters. In fact, the level was so low, that the Cubans crewing anti-aircraft guns on nearby hills were unable to depress their barrels low enough to open fire at them!

As soon as the Rangers were on the ground, the first LTV A-7E Corsair IIs from USS Independence arrived to deliver more bombs on Cuban and Grenadese flaks. The Cubans were expecting an amphibious invasion and not an airborne attack; consequently, only a small number of their AAA-guns were deployed around the airfield. This was swiftly neutralized by the heavy fire from 20-, 40-, and 105mm cannons ofthe Gunships and bombs as well as 20mm cannon fire of the A-7Es. In the following minutes the rangers captured the airfield, and then secured the perimeter, defending several local Cuban counterattacks. By 0730, Point Salines was finally in US hands, and 200 Cuban soldiers and workers were captured, together with a considerable cache of weapons and ammunition. During one of the Cuban counterattacks, the Rangers were supported by Marine AH-1Ts, which destroyed three APCs.
After the runway was cleared, at 1405 the first transports with additional troops of the 82nd Airborne landed on Salines, and then even more followed, flown in aboard Lochkeed C-141 StarLifters of the 60th, 62nd, 63rd, 315th, 437th, 438th, and 514th MAW.

SEALs in Trouble
While the Marines and Rangers managed to secure their first targets despite considerable enemy resistance and bad weather, the special operations operators run into one problem after the other. A platoon of SEALs captured the radio-station „Free Grenada“, but managed to put it off the air only after it reported the start of the US attack and issued a call for general mobilization.

The DELTA troops were inserted to Richmond Hill with the help of Sikorsky UH-60A Black Hawk helicopters of the 101st Airborne Division – that refuelled aboard the USS Guam – but, contrary to the Marines, they came 45 minutes late due to the bad weather, and found defenders alerted and ready: fierce anti-aircraft fire immediately hit and shot down one UH-60A, and at least a single Hughes MH-6, killing a pilot and injuring six crewmembers. The attack had to be called off – that is, as soon as the crews of downed helicopters could be evacuated.

The third operation of the special forces was undertaken by the SEALs, and was planned to free the British Governor: the representative of the British Commonwealth, was still a highly important and influential figure on Grenada, was held captive by the PRA in his house. The 22 SEALs were highly successful in entering the house, but then fell into a well-set-up trap. Admiral Metcalf immediately ordered the AC-130Hs to support them, and dispatched additional Marines aboard helicopters from USS Guam: what he and his officers oversaw, however, was the fact that the Governors House was inside the range of Cuban and Grenadese flaks positioned around Forts Frederick and Ruppert.

As the first two AH-1Ts approached the Governors House, the Cubans opened withering fire from their ZPU-14s, ZSU-23s, and BTR-60 APCs. The Cobras tried to take cover behind the vegetation: as one of them climbed slightly in order to fire a TOW ATGM, however, it was hit and he pilot injured. The crew survived the crash of the helicopter, but as the gunner tried to extract the pilot out of the wreckage he was shot by small-arms fire. The second Cobra called for help, and – together with an AC-130H – then supported a CH-46E that landed in order to evacuate the downed crew. As the Sea Knight started back into the air, however, the Cobra was simultaneously hit from several sides and shot down. The crew was immediately killed.

The situation of the SEALs now became precarious, as minutes later the Cubans started a vigorous attack against the Government House: this was stopped only with the help of the Specters, and precise fire of the SEALs: the last, however, lacked anti-tank weapons, and were slowly running out of ammunition. The troubles of the SEALs finally forced the American commanders to order AC-130s into more attacks. As the Spectres were delivering one salvo after the other, also additional A-7Es were called in, and the fierce air attacks finally forced the Cubans to pull back. There was no respite, however, as the SEALs were still surrounded. Additional air strikes simultaneously forced the Cubans also out of Pearls, and as the perimeter around that airfield was thus enlargened, in the evening also six 105mm guns were flown in.

After the war, there was severe criticism for the SEALs, which were blamed for poor preparation of their operations – especially the attack on the Governor House. The fact was, however, that the main reason for the mishaps and casualties suffered during this attack was the poor intelligence: the US commanders simply lacked exact reports about the enemy positions and strength.

More Problems
On the morning of 26 October, Admiral Metcalf was actually preparing to deal with some other problems but the situation of the SEALs at the Governors House; but, these were in such a critical position, that now an order was issued for the Marines to attempt an amphibious landing on the beaches nearby, and breach through. At the dawn, a number of LVT-7 APCs and five M-60A1 Patton MBTs went on the beach at Grand Mal: supported by additional heavy attacks, they breached the Cuban positions and drove for Grand Anse Campus, where it was suspected that also 200 US students were held captive.

In support of this drive the Marines organized their next heliborne operation. Around 1630hrs a column of CH-46Es approached the Campus, but was immediately confronted with fierce anti-aircraft fire. The lead helicopter was hit while still over the water, and forced to make emergency landing into the shallow sea. The rangers and the crew were evacuated by another CH-46s. Minutes later, however, Grumman A-6E Intruders and A-7E Corsair IIs from USS Independence delivered a heavy strike against the anti-aircraft guns, and either disabled them and killed the crews, or forced the rest of them to flee. The A-7s also continued their strikes against flak-positions near Forts Ruppert and Frederick, but one of the bombs went astry and hit the psychiatric hospital nearby, killing several patients. Despite problems, in the afternoon the Marines finally reached the Cuban positions surrounding the Governors House, and around 1900hrs they established a contact with the SEALs. The crisis was now finally over; the problems not.

Simultaneously, the troops of the 82nd Airborne were – after being reinforced and getting enough supplies – to breach out of their bridgehead at Point Salines towards north. Supported by Bell OH-58 Kiowas and UH-60A helicopters and Spectres, they destroyed a better part of a small Cuban battle group in their way. In the following night, it was felt safe to deploy the Black Hawks of the 82nd Airborne, together with some OH-58s and UH-1s, and a medical company to the Point Salines airfield. The helicopters started arriving around 0200hrs on 27 October. But, once they landed it was realized that the local fuel dump was empty. Because of this, in the same night a large-scale transport operation for considerable amounts of fuel had to be organized, with Sikorsky CH-53 Sea Stallions and CH-46s of USS Guam being used. Regardless how much fuel was flown in, however, it became clear that no additional helicopters could be stationed on Grenada for the time being: all the other machines of the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions had to remain on Barbados. The same was the case with AC-130s: none could be refueled on the island, and so the A-6s and A-7s from USS Independence – as well as the two remaining AH-1Ts from USS Guam – remained the most important air-support assets. Nevertheless, the C-130 and C-141 transports continued landing at Salines, while the Lockheed C-5 Galaxys were forced to divert to Barbados, as the airfield was simply not large enough to handle them.

The Search for US Hostages
Despite many mishaps, the operation of securing and evacuating US civilians was a success: one campus was secured and evacuated successfully already on the first day of the war, and Grand Anse followed on 26th. Most of the civilians were flown out to USS Guam aboard CH-46 helicopters. Others were evacuated from Campus True Blue to Point Salines, from where they were flown out directly to the USA aboard the transport aircraft. All this was undertaken without a single loss despite the constant threat of Cuban and Grenadese snipers.

On 27 October, the elements of the 82nd Division – repeatedly supported by A-7Es from the USS Independence – continued their advance via Frequente towards north. Some problems in coordination of the air strikes were encounered, and in one case a USN Corsair hit the US Army positions, injuring 16 soldiers. Nevertheless, other strikes were highly effective, and under the pressure the Cuban resistance almost ceased, while the PRA largerly fell apart. By the noon of 27 October, the situation of the US troops on Grenada was thus slightly surprising: the local population was very friendly, most of the US citizens were safe and underway back to the USA, and the enemy was pulling back or giving up. Nevertheless, one task remained to be done: the attack against the last Cuban stronghold, near Calvigny.

Without any apparent need, this operation was prepared in a rush and without proper reconnaissance. A whole company of Rangers was put into eight UH-60As of the 82nd Airborne and sent on the way.

The Black Hawks reached their target around 1645hrs, on the heels of another fierce strike delivered by the A-7Es from USS Independence, and even some naval bombardments, by 127mm cannons of US destroyers. The UH-60As arrived over the target in a formation of two columns, and the first two landed without any problem. As the third and fourth helicopter came to land, one was hit into rotor and crashed – from only few meters over the ground – on the Black Hawk No.2. Behind the crashing helicopter, the No.4 tried to evade, but made a very hard landing, which caused the tail to break. After the rangers jumped out, the pilot – obviously not knowing about the heavy damage to his helicopter – attempted a take-off: the Black Hawk flipped on the back and fell over the troops that were still nearby, killing three and causing severe injuries to 12 other. Then the helicopters attempted to take off back towards USS Guam: the 30 Cubans defending Calvigny, however, were still in the area, and firing fiercely. In addition to causing the loss of two UH-60As, they also badly damaged another Black Hawk and also a single OH-58: the UH-60A returned to USS Guam with 45 holes in the fuselage!

Aside from this chaos, the remaining three UH-60As landed without problems, and the troops secured the target within only 15 minutes... The tragedy of the helicopter operations near Calvigny was not yet over, however. A single CH-53D was dispatched from USS Guam with an order to recover the wrecks of the UH-60As from Grenada. This operation, however, ended in another loss, as both wrecks had to be released over the sea and written-off, as the crew of the CH-53D tried to winch and transport them back to the carrier both at once.

The troops on the ground were meanwhile in a much better position: the Rangers, Marines, and paras were swift to mop up the remaining groups of Cubans and PRA troops: they found and liberated the remaining students, and then also captured the Richmond Hill prison. By 29 October, „Urgent Fury“ was – for all purposes – finished.

Conclusions
Already on 2 November, the Marines of the 22nd MAU were pulled out from Grenada and embarked to their ships, in order to continue the trip to Lebanon. The Rangers followed few days later, while the troops of the 82nd Airborne remained on the island slightly longer. The USS Independence carrier battle group also continued the voyage to the Mediterranean, and was only two months later to participate in the fighting there as well. As there were still some concerns about a possible Cuban reaction, on 30 November eight F-15As of the 33rd TFW were deployed to Puerto Rico, while several A-10As of the 23rd TFW deployed to Bridgetown.

The operation „Urgent Fury“ remains an example for typical US interventions in similar cases until today, even when it comes to the losses: in less than three days of combat 19 US servicemen were killed, and 116 injured – a large number of these in accidents and ceases of fratricide fire. On the other side, the Cubans lost 25 killed and 59 injured, and the PRA 45 killed and between 350 and 410 killed.
For this intervention, the Pentagon deployed almost the same assets like the British did during the Falklands War: while the number of involved ships was much smaller, the number of deployed aircraft and helicopters – and the total firepower – were considerably superior to that of the British in 1982. This came not out of nothing: the Cuban and Grenadese defenses were not as strong or as well armed as the Argentinean, but they were definitely a serious opponent, and there was a need for the Americans to hurry up due to the large number of their civilians in the hands of the enemy. Also, there was always a possibility of a larger Cuban intervention.

The full extension and purposes of the Cuban involvement on Grenada, however, became known only after the US troops captured the local headquarters and most of the Cuban and Soviet „instructors“: the island was already used as a base for training of different Latin American terrorists, and there were considerable connections also to different countries of the Warsaw Pact. This revelation caused much damage to the Cuban influence in the area.

From the purely military standpoint, Urgent Fury was used as a proof for different concepts, tactics, and new weapons systems (including the introduction of the UH-60A helicopters and McDonnell Douglas KC-10A Extender tankers in combat operations) of the US military, which was still recovering from the trauma of the Vietnam War, and provided a number of highly valuable lessons for the future – which were to be used during similar operations in or against Libya, in 1986, Panama, 1989, and Haiti, in 1994, but also during the II Persian Gulf War, in 1990-1991.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_159.shtml

Hardly a war my ass. Did you know anybody who fought in Grenada? 19 dead, over 110 wounded. Just because you don't know anything about the men who fought there and what exactly happened, don't preach.

[JMooch]

"Hardly a war my ass. Did you know anybody who fought in Grenada? 19 dead, over 110 wounded. Just because you don't know anything about the men who fought there and what exactly happened, don't preach."

Well said, I've been working on a book about the operation and I'm proud to call many of those veterans, I have interviewed, friends. I'd like to see you stand face to face with them and tell them it wasn't a war. You probably wouldn't be spouting crap with your face pushed in. :fork: I'd like to see you do what those Rangers, Marines, SEAL's, Delta operators, USAF Spectre crews, 160 SOAR crews and Airborne troopers did.
S/F
Mooch

[martinexsquaddie]

whatever.
The op was rushed and had a dubious rational Grenanda was never a threat to the USA and the American students were in no danger until the military Op began.
America wanted to look big and suceeded but only just against an enemy with no air assets at all. It was hardly a glorious victory against the odds Professional soldiers with total air superiority naval support against the feared Grenadidean Army a hundred eastern european advisors and 700 cuban workers who'd all had military training not exactly a crack fighting force. Belive what you will If the op had been planned better most of the heroics would not have been neccesary

[mocking_loudly_died]

Oh god, Grenanda a war? :roll:

That was a penis competition, America hadn't gotten laid in a while and decided to try out the ugly no challenge chick for kicks.

Kaboom!

[NcDeuce]

enemy with no air assets at all
Have we fought anybody in the past 15 years with major assets? Gulf War? Somalia? Afghanistan? Philippines? The recent war in Iraq?

The point of this thread was to honor the veterens, not question why they were deployed or to belittle their actions. You, my friend, have no business talking down on the actions of these men. So sit your liberal ass down.

[mocking_loudly_died]

I seriously hope you are not speaking to martin in that manner.

He has been there done that - while you have twiddled thumbs and flicked through mags going "cor this gun is mighty pretty!".

[Argyll]

The best way to honour the fallen is to do it privately,alone with your thoughts,that way nobody can say Jack ****!
TF there are a lot of Brit BTDTs here,I for one was getting incoming from the IRA when you were not even a twinkle in your Pop's eye......you ask for respect..........earn it my friend,that's how it works!
Now no disresect to the guys who gave their lives in Grenada,but it was IMHO not a war,it was more a confrontation in the school playground,it was more a battle than a war.
Same as the Falklands was only a conflict because no act of war was declared!.
I don't recal the US ever declaring War on the Grenadan's.....so why call it one?

As to the Air assets,If I pick him up correctly he may have also meant Ground to Air systems too.
The Iraqis in 91 also had air assets,but were simply overpowered by the sheer numbers of COALITION aircraft,the Yugoslavs also had air assets,again the whole of NATO was involved,so no surprise to their effectiveness!!.......!

[NcDeuce]

It is a little different when you don't know anybody who fought or died in a conflict, huh?

Maybe if the dead could speak, they would tell you about gearing up before the jump and being all anxious about going to war. Do you really think the men were in the transports saying, "This isn't a war, it's going to be more like a confrontation on a playground?"

[Argyll]

Kiddo this was when you were a child or even before you were born?,so don't try and come the "I knew him and I knew him "crap,nobody but the guy who's just about the step out knows what it was like,and most old soldiers I know know how to spin a yarn to the young interested ear!!

Unless you jumped then your comments mean jack,you ever been under effective fire........nope,ever seen the effects of a 1000lb IED .....nope.

Your posts are very interesting and informative,but you're just coming over like some kind of Military history buff,despite your fathers occupation,of which he has my utmost respect,but kid you're not your Father,and never will be,you've got some hard footsteps to follow.
I'd suggest respecting others who've been in firefights rather than make innocious comments

I also doubt seriously the men who took part in the Operation said This is it ,this is war,for the 1st timers they'd be saying nothing,for the older seasoned guys they'd be saying I hope to God I bring them all out alive.!!

In your eyes,and it seems yours only it was a war,in otheres who were around in that era it was more like the Falklands,a skirmish,Conflict,Battle whatever,..........if this was the case then Panama was a war,Somalia was a war,Bosnia was a war,the actions taken by SOF in South America is war.

Who decalared there was a war,was there ever a ceasfire agreed,was there ever a surrender negotiotion agreed,just like GW1?

19 KIA yes a tragedy,we lost 18 Paratroopers in Warrenpoint to 2 PIRA roadside bombs in one day,one of them was my next door neighbours nephew.The differencethe US forces were killed in Battle,our guys were murdered by Terrorists!!
Do you grieve over them?

[martinexsquaddie]

I am a liberal and proud of it. Its not an insult to belive theres more to life than doing what the chief says and money is the sole value of a person.
while no disrespect for the men on the ground. A lot of disrespect for the planners and politicos who sent them on a badly planned dubious mission.
If you every join up you may find yourself in moraly dubious postions. Like being sent to Put tents up for kurds in Northan Iraq while Turkey was still using them for target practice. If you ever grow up you may realize your country has done some well dodgy things in the past I know the UK has.
look at some of the stuff that has come out about undercover ops in NI personally i think a loy of that was justifiable but I may be wrong.

[XASA]

I'm currently reading "No Room for Error: The Covert Operations of America's Special Tactics Units from Iran to Afghanistan" by Colonel John T. Carney & Benjamin F. Schemmer (Ballantine Books). Carney was the founding father and first commanding officer of USAF Special Tactics units and took part in the planning and execution of the Grenada invasion.

In his opinion, it was a cluster f*** because of inter-service rivalries, compartmentalization, poor intelligence and piss-poor command structure. That being said, the men involved in the "invasion" did the best they could considering the circumstances.

[martinexsquaddie]

how the hell did the US manage to start an OP without decent Maps I thought thats what spy sats and sr71s and the CIA were for. :(
the British had to rely on a boating guide made of the falklands by some ex officer a few years before the invasion who sailed there and having some to do with beach recces written up the best beaches to land on. Lots of officers running round rare book shop s looking for copies of the book :D but we are basically broke.
The US have more money than anyone else. :roll:

[XASA]

What happen was the powers that be kept a tight security lid on the mission and the Defense Mapping Agency wasn't even asked for maps. There were a few outdated tourist maps but, again, due to security, only a few had access. The carrier pilots had satellite photo images but rain and sea spray destroyed those before they were in the air. Lack of maps was only one of the FUBAR issues of the mission :(

[NcDeuce]

:cantbeli:

[NcDeuce]

I know, those previous comments are just funny.

[Argyll]

LOL
no probs,keep the intersting stuff coming!!