Syria's murderous role

[2RHPZ]

Syria's murderous role

By Richard Carlson, Barbara Newman and William Cowan

A factor complicating the coalition mission of bringing stability to Iraq is the covert role played by Syria in financing and supporting the present insurgency, and the ineffectual attempts by the United States to counter it or even publicly acknowledge it.
A number of current and former U.S. intelligence officers experienced in counter-terrorism who were interviewedbytheauthors believe that Syria should have been long ago included on Washington's "axis of evil" list although it is still not. But the State Department, acknowledging recent publicly cooperative gestures from Syrian President Bashar Assad (a British-trained eye doctor who "inherited" the presidency and the leadership of the Ba'ath Party from his bloodthirsty deceased father, President Hafez Assad) considers Syria a "partner" in the war on terror. This, in spite of a documented list of Syrian perfidy against the United States that begins with the bombings of the American Embassy and the Marine compound in Beirut in 1983 that killed more than 240 young Marines and sailors. There was no punishment for those murders then or since, even though the bomb-making materials passed through Damascus on their way to Beirut, and Syrian intelligence assisted in the fabrication of the device and in the attacks' operational planning.

The Syrians went on to shoot down two U.S. Navy jets in 1983, again without the slightest response on the part of the United States. By 1985, as Hezbollah began to morph from various radical elements in Lebanon into a full-fledged terrorist organization, Syria provided access for the movement of men, supplies and materials to move freely through Damascus on their way to and from terrorist centers and camps in Beirut, the Bekaa Valley and Tehran.
When Pan Am 103 was downed over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, the world soon focused on Libyan intelligence as the culprit. And it was. But the planning for the operation had been conducted in Damascus under the watchful eye of Syrian intelligence.
When the Khobar Towers were bombed in Saudi Arabia in 1996, at a cost of 19 U.S. servicemen's lives, it was Syria which had been nurturing Hezbollah with cash and secret bases.
Yet last year, after a meeting in Damascus with Mr. Assad, Secretary of State Colin Powell held a news conference in Washington to tell the American public he had received assurances that Syria would crack down on terrorists and evict the many terrorist organizations headquartered in Damascus. To date, no terrorist groups have left, and there are no visible signs that Syria has cracked down on anyone.
In the earliest stages of the ground war in Iraq, U.S. forces engaged uniformed Syrians near Baghdad, killing more than 100 of them. Current intelligence reports on battlefield kills, captures and interrogations, show that hundreds of Syrians are fighting alongside insurgents in the Sunni Triangle.
In October of this year, U.S. intelligence sources identified three relatives of Saddam Hussein, who had fled to Syria and were funneling millions of dollars to the Iraqi insurgents through middlemen and front companies.
U.S. intelligence sources have told the authors that Syrian intelligence officials have identified targets for the insurgency, provided its members with logistical support and helped plan operations against coalition forces.
Syrian intelligence officials have allegedly shown visitors a video of the beheading of two American soldiers who were captured in Iraq, possibly in fighting near the airport in the early days of the invasion. They were allegedly beheaded by Syrian fighters working with the Iraqi insurgents. The U.S. government disclaims any knowledge of this, but two sources who say they have seen the video described it in detail to one of the authors. In a meeting with Syrian intelligence officers in which the tape was supposedly shown, said the source, a Syrian official mocked the executions by saying "this is what we do to Americans."President Bush's insistence on not compromising with terrorists has been endorsed by a majority of the citizens of the United States and by the leaders of our global allies. The president's goals in Iraq, and elsewhere in the region, will not be achieved until the Syrians are forced to halt all assistance to our enemies. To win the ground war in Iraq and the larger war on terrorism, we must stop more than two decades of Syrian complicity with terrorists. Failure at this point is not an option.

William Cowan is a retired U.S. Marine colonel and counterinsurgency and terrorism expert. Barbara Newman is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. Richard Carlson ran the Voice of America during the last years of the Cold War and is vice chairman of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

Link (http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041206-122715-5905r.htm)

[LordHalbert]

I think it's time to bomb Damascus.

[KB]

Source?

Long overdue article. Cowan is a stud...he was heavily involved in US effort to track down Imad Mugniyah and his cohorts in Lebanon in mid '80s. Glad to see he's speaking out.

[eightyfive535i]

I think it's time to bomb Damascus.

Agreed.

[plodey]

Bomb Damascus and create even more terrorists ?

You guys don't seriously think these people wake up one day and say "well I think I want to become a terrorist". If the US bombed my neighbourhood killing friends and relatives even I would take up arms against them.

[eightyfive535i]

Bomb Damascus and create even more terrorists ?

You guys don't seriously think these people wake up one day and say "well I think I want to become a terrorist". If the US bombed my neighbourhood killing friends and relatives even I would take up arms against them.

I think the die has been cast, so to speak. All it takes is one radical mullah or imam to whip up the jihad. That is why we have to take it to them.

Flame away. But I would also be interested in discussing my ideas about this intellegently, so I won't be abusive if you won't!

'85

[plodey]

Bomb Damascus and create even more terrorists ?

You guys don't seriously think these people wake up one day and say "well I think I want to become a terrorist". If the US bombed my neighbourhood killing friends and relatives even I would take up arms against them.

I think the die has been cast, so to speak. All it takes is one radical mullah or imam to whip up the jihad. That is why we have to take it to them.

Yes, but its much easier to "whip up" support if your local town has just been bombed, or if you have just been shown a video of US soldiers shooting Iraqi prisoners, or have seen photos of US troops humiliating POWs....

get the picture?

The United States cannot play at being the "World's Policeman".

[eightyfive535i]

In the absence of "real" agression propaganda will be used to whip up emotions.

I don't think America really wants to be the World Cop, but the UN has failed to act in anyone's best interest other than the career beuracrats in the UN. There is a power vacuum right now, and the US is filling it in response to the nuttiness that has been allowed to happen since the end of the Cold War.

[spyguy]

hmm, this may sway my decision to study at Damascus University next summer. Although I've heard some of this before. Anyone know if there have been attacks on western tourists/students in recent memory within Syria? Thanks in advance.

SG

[Coop]

Anyone know if there have been attacks on western tourists/students in recent memory within Syria? Thanks in advance. Been to Syria already several times: the people are friendly and curious, and you can go wherever you like as much as you like.

Just for comparission: try walking on the street in Amman after 22:00hrs local time and see what happens. Most of the cities in Israel are empty after 20:00hrs. There are sizeable parts of KSA where - as "Kafir" you'll never be permitted to go.

Then try doing the same in Damascus: you can walk, you can go to coffee-shops, restaurants (delicious food, but mind ice-cubes!), bars, casinos, enjoy your time until deep in the night at will - whatever else. It's a very busy city, with streets crammed full with people and cars. You can get all sorts of goods, food, foreign press, and watch US satellite channels even in 3-star hotels.

Yes, there are military posts in front of any more important building, and plenty of policeofficers all around - especially around the presidential residences (but you still can walk or drive around that place, which you cannot in Cairo, just for example). However, nobody really cares about them. The people in general mind their own business and care about earning money most of all.

Over the summer the population grows up to 6 million, because between 2 and 3 million of "Gulf Arabs" come to the city, to escape the summer heath in Saudi Arabia and the UAE - and enjoy local freedoms: Moslem women in Syria have a choice - if they want to wear traditional scarfs or modern clothes (most of the younger women go for the later solution). Especially the Saudis are meanwhile massively investing in Damascus, so that you can see building sites (new hotels, restaurants etc.) everywhere around the city.

Re. terrorists - which, I guess, most of the people here expect to see everywhere in Syria: all I've seen so far was a group of Hizbollah girls (from Lebanon: they are easy to recognize because no Syrian woman would ever wear such black scarfs) visiting the Teshreen Panorama (memorial for the 1973 war). Out of curiosity I went to the site attacked by Israelis in October 2003: nothing there to be seen at all - except a small cave, some bush - and traces of a bomb crater.

BTW, before you can board an airplane on Damascus IAP you'll go through three security checks. In total, I never felt unsafe there... except while sitting in a specific taxi: you don't have drivers from Mars in NY only...

Of course, it's not a paradise: most of the Syrians earn very little. A considerable part of the population depends on state support for surviving (which in turn makes the country very cheap for tourists). Educational system is largely obsolete. The economy suffers from Western blockades and is only slowly improving since Syria became an oil-exporter, some two years back, plus due to investment from KSA and UAE. But, I've never heard anybody stating he hates the USA or any Wester country: many of them do hate Israel, of course, but they make a considerable difference.

Oh, yes: and many of them dislike Gulf Arabs too, because these drive oversized cars, are frequently arrogant - and their women wear heavy scarfs...

What the Syrians do with members of al-Qaida etc. I already explained in another post, few days back. Let me add that they've arrested and delivered over 300 sought-for terrorists to KSA and Turkey in the last three years: the Saudis have left most of theirs to freedom again...

So, I'm still waiting for any kind of serious evidence that Syria is activelly supporting either the insurgency in Iraq or al-Qaida. Not only this: nobody bombs US consulates in Syria, nobody is murdering Westerners on the streets there (like in KSA, whever over 200 were killed in the last two years), and nobody is bombing foreign hotels or tourists (like in Egypt).

[fantassin]

This article has all the aspects of the shaping of the next battlefield by propaganda...

Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...

And before you know it, it's been attacked in the name of "good" against "evil".

[2RHPZ]

In the absence of "real" agression propaganda will be used to whip up emotions.

I don't think America really wants to be the World Cop, but the UN has failed to act in anyone's best interest other than the career beuracrats in the UN. There is a power vacuum right now, and the US is filling it in response to the nuttiness that has been allowed to happen since the end of the Cold War.

Agreed. BTW, rather follow my way and do not discuss such matters with (western) Europeans. It´s vain. Their antiamericanism, based on envy, is behind the limits. They don´t see even the tip of their nose. They stand up behind their powerless, antiquated empire and wait for the next big lesson to recognize that the real politics, I mean answer to the aggression or to the indication of danger for society, must ne strong and prompt. For all who still attack me for being American ... I am from Central Europe!

[seruriermarshal]

This article has all the aspects of the shaping of the next battlefield by propaganda...

Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil... Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...Syria is evil...

And before you know it, it's been attacked in the name of "good" against "evil".

Of course Syria is evil !

[bloddyaxe]

actually I think it is time to kill everyone in the Middle east and nearby areas...

they charge too much for their oil...

[username]

In the absence of "real" agression propaganda will be used to whip up emotions.

I don't think America really wants to be the World Cop, but the UN has failed to act in anyone's best interest other than the career beuracrats in the UN. There is a power vacuum right now, and the US is filling it in response to the nuttiness that has been allowed to happen since the end of the Cold War.

Where the U.N has failed the US has failed. The USA is a highly influential member of the U.N and a member of the security council. You cannot go around blaming the U.N for the world's problems they are not some magical country in the clouds. They are a reprasentative body of it's member nations which includes the USA.

The USA has been and still does play the role of 'world cop' with the dramatic difference being that it enforces it's own brand of justice. Take a look at the "your either with us or against us" speeches Bush Jnr has made. What about all the comments talking about bringing peace and democracy to the middle east and other areas? What about Bush Jnr labeling the Australian Prime Minister the Deputy in South East Asia? All examples of world cop on the beat.

With that said do not get me wrong. I am not calling the USA and it's citizens bad people. There are many good people that call them selfs americans and i have no problem with them. I was simply pointing out the actions caused by US policies.



In the absence of "real" agression propaganda will be used to whip up emotions.

This is true. There are muslim extremists doing this constantly which in my opinion is not acceptable and should be stoped. There is a very good example which was conducted by the Bush Administration prior to invading iraq. They whipped up emotion making claims about iraq's WMD's and attempts to get uranium to build nuclear weapons. 100, 000 Iraqi people have died since the invasion.

[username]

actually I think it is time to kill everyone in the Middle east and nearby areas...

they charge too much for their oil...

nearby meaning the people on planet earth.

[Coop]

Where the U.N has failed the US has failed. The USA is a highly influential member of the U.N and a member of the security council. You cannot go around blaming the U.N for the world's problems they are not some magical country in the clouds. They are a reprasentative body of it's member nations which includes the USA.
The USA can be blamed for their own part in UN's failure. But not all alone and not for everything. Others are to blame for their own parts too.

It's certainly a bad example when the USA tolerate a fact that Israel ignored every single related UN-resolution so far, and even support that country with all their might, while the same USA demand from specific other countries to stick even to UN-resolutions and regulations that are not void for them.

It is, however, equally a very bad example when some other countries deliver as much weapons and equipment to certain dictatorships, tolerate their behaviour and different violations, support them by all means despite UN-embargos etc. Or, worst yet, when these same countries show time and again they are completely unable to solve specific situations without US help, then cry for US help when there is none, or blame the USA when these attempt to help.

IMHO, the problem is therefore how the people understand such situations and draw lessons from these (which is that we need cooperation and no dictates from either side).

That specific politicians can behave like idiots should actually be nothing new...

[Mailman]

The US is not the UN...if it were the UN would have acted over Iraq instead of stuffing around like it did.

Mailman

[Ratman]

The US is not the UN...if it were the UN would have acted over Iraq instead of stuffing around like it did.

Mailman

But wasn't it the UN that said that it didn't appear that the inspections were working and that there weren't any weapons of mass destruction.

Where was the threat, really. All propaganda. Not ONE of the ORIGINAL reasons for attacking Iraq has withstood the scrutiny of time. Saddam sucked but the US and the war on terror would have been better served by securing and rebuilding Afghanistan - I think.

Sadly, over a thousand dead American and countless others are dead because the US rebuffed the council of the UN on a bag of lies.

[bloddyaxe]

actually I think it is time to kill everyone in the Middle east and nearby areas...

they charge too much for their oil...

nearby meaning the people on planet earth.

No no,, not neccessarily on earth... they could also be flying! or sailing! or swimming!... you can never know! :(

I have just figured one thing "know" and "cow" very similar!! :cantbeli:

[Javehn]

The situation in Syria is a fight between several person in the government . For example , the situation between Mustafa Tlas clan , Syrian minister of defence , and followers of president Assad . While Tlas clan most probably playing the card of bad guy , and Asad has too little power behind him to effect . There is a good article about it in Acig.org , but somehow this forum having troubles lately(or it's just me) .


Most of the cities in Israel are empty after 20:00hrs.

I have no idea what forsaken villadge you visited , but this is not correct . Specially in Gush Dan area .

[S'13]

Most of the cities in Israel are empty after 20:00hrs.


Heh! :lol: rofl

Where did you visit and when?

No insult intended, but this sounds like pure BS to me (and to anyone whose been to the cities in Israel)...

[spyguy]

Coop (or anyone else that can contribute,)
Yah I studied in cairo last summer, and before i went everyone was telling me how reckless i was being with my life. but it turned out great, had a great time. the people were.....Arabs, which is not a slight but the best definition. My Egyptian teachers were some of the best teachers I've ever had, they'd make the US a better place if they'd move there, (none had any interest.) Got to see relatively nice cairo, and then desolate areas on down to Luxor and Aswan. I have a question about the people in Syria. I wanted to go there in stead of Beirut because i heard less people in Damascus will speak english compared to Beirut or Cairo, does that sound accurate? Not to mention this time i won't be going to an American University. Also just for the record do you think most people assumed you were american or western european (if you are?) If so, did you tell them when they asked where you were from, (if anyone did?) i was just curious about those things.

Thanks again for your insight.
SG

[Coop]

I have no idea what forsaken villadge you visited , but this is not correct . Specially in Gush Dan area .
Jerusalem, of course, Tel Aviv, and foremost the north.

Perhaps your - and S'13's - experiences in Israel are different, but after being in position to compare what I've seen with my own eyes in both countries (plus some), I can only conclude that night life in Israel is nothing compared with Damascus.

...Which I saw confirmed also with the usual Israeli rush on the Austrian casino in Gaza, as long as this was open, in the mid-1990s...


The situation in Syria is a fight between several person in the government . For example , the situation between Mustafa Tlas clan , Syrian minister of defence , and followers of president Assad . While Tlas clan most probably playing the card of bad guy , and Asad has too little power behind him to effect . There is a good article about it in Acig.org , but somehow this forum having troubles lately(or it's just me).
The Tlass clan - especially the two sons of Mustafa Tlass - actually controls the largest Syrian companies, and thus a better part of the Syrian economy. That makes them rich = influential. Add to this that their father is in control of the military and a better part of the security apparatus. It's them who are interested in few controversial matters: on one side, they want to earn as much as they can, which is possible only if there is peace in Syria; on the other they support specific circles - mainly in order to demonstrate their power to the President.

Tlass is also a guy of the "old guard" type: total control of the state over the public sector and economy etc. Kind like under Assad.

The President, Bashar al-Assad, on the other side, is not interested in wars, but in reforms, which he has to organize very slowly. Otherwise he'll be past before you say "cookie". So, what's he's done so far is to upgrade the situation in educational and hospital sectors (he invested over $600 million for introducing computers there), invite foreign investors (mainly from KSA and UAE), improvise economy (now possible due to oil exploatation), and pull Syria out of international isolation (which, I'd say, he's quite successful so far, then every time I'm there there are several foreign delegations visiting him too).

Under him, the Syrian security net was completely re-built and re-organized: they still have something like 600 different security services (no, that's not a typo!), but at least these are now not responsible for controlling every single human being and corner in Syria.

So, eventually, there is a dangerous mix with Bashar having to find compromises with Tlass-clan in order to push his ideas through - and remain in power. IMHO, he's doing very fine. Not as present in the public like his father, but very popular between Syrian youngsters. IMHO, he is the only guarantee for stability in Syria (I'm sure that without him on the top we'd already have three or four new military coups in Damascus since the death of Assad Sr.). Remove Bashar and you have not only another Iraq, but probably another Afghanistan there - then without him the last non-religious Arab regime in the ME is away...

Re. ACIG.org forum: it appears they have got a problem with somebody who played with their security settings. That website - and especially the forum - are frequently a target of hacking attacks, because they publish quite some things many people either don't like to hear, or don't like to be published.


Spy,
my experience is that one can't generalize about Syrians and their knowledge of foreign languages. Many older people speak French or German (especially former "gastarbeiter(s)"): the number of youngsters who speak English is increasing, however, and my guess is that English is meanwhile the most widely spoken foreign language there.

So, for example, most of taxi-drivers do not even understand English, but some speak it fluently; in most of the shops - and certainly in any good restaurant - you can "survive" without Arabic. Otherwise, it's always the best to speak at least some Arabic: that makes the people even more friendlier.

The major difference between Syrians and Egyptians, IMHO, is that Syrians can get quite nervous if you "suddenly" have a camera in your hands: they are still not really used to their new freedoms installed under Bashar, and consider almost everything for something like a "military secret".

Re. what do I think most of the people considered me: those who were interested always asked me first. So, I'd say they do not make themselves a picture before knowing something about you. When I told them where do I come from they were extremely curious to hear how do the people live here, how much they earn, how is the economy functioning, what are the taxes, social insurance, how much the cars cost, business opportunities etc. - i.e. all the "everyday stuff", if you know what I mean.

BTW, in Syria there is no such large difference between Damascus and "province" like in Egypt: quite on the contrary, most parts of - especially northern - Syria look far better than Damascus (which is really a BUSY city). But, I guess, it's not on us to explain the people living in the oldest city of the world what and how should they build and arrange their Damascus.

Re. going to Beirut: I plan to visit the place the next time I'm in the area. I've heard the city should be quite sparkling and exciting. But, I've also heard there are areas of Lebanon where no Western people should go without some Arab escort. In general, the Syrians recommend a visit to Beirut, but stress that Damascus is "better".

[Javehn]

Thanks for the interesting and insightfull input . You should visit Lebanon , as Lebanese women are the most beautifull in the region (well , after us offcorse ;) ) .
I still think you don't right about night life in Israel , but that's another matter to discuss :)

[S'13]

Perhaps your - and S'13's - experiences in Israel are different, but after being in position to compare what I've seen with my own eyes in both countries (plus some), I can only conclude that night life in Israel is nothing compared with Damascus.


I think you probably visited the wrong places in T.A and Jerusalem... ;)

[Raistlin]

Dude, seriously, where the hell were you in TA? The place has enough people all night long - almost every day. And my very little town of Kfar Saba has people downtown all the way until 1am.

[goldman]

Hey guys my girl friend and i r planing to visit egypt pyramids and isreal after univ any suggestions.

[spyguy]

I only spent two months in Egypt, but if you have any specific questions i'd be happy to answer them, you can PM me as I might forget about this thread

SG