AK47 penetration

[b33f]

Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?

(yes, i did multiple google searches which yielded no useful result)

[Virus]

for a second i thought this was some crazy kinky gun **** :p





but seriously, i wouldnt mind knowing either :D

[Dennis G]

Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?

(yes, i did multiple google searches which yielded no useful result)

What material do you wish to penetrate? I may be able to help or refer you to a site that can be of service to you.

[American Patriot]

Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?

(yes, i did multiple google searches which yielded no useful result)

What material do you wish to penetrate? I may be able to help or refer you to a site that can be of service to you.


Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?

(yes, i did multiple google searches which yielded no useful result)

AKA rolled homogenous armor

[Firefly26]

Here's a partial answer to your question.
http://world.guns.ru/ammo/am05-e.htm
I guess it could be applied to steel RHA. You could probably swag it from there.

[Geezah]

Anatomy of a Bullet Wound


One of the tools used to compare the effects of ammunition is the "wound profile." Wound profiles are simply dimensioned photographs or carefully prepared scale drawings of test firings in calibrated ballistic gelatin. The wound profiles below are some typical examples of what a bullet does on impact.

Properly prepared and calibrated ballistic gelatin gives performance and penetration results within about 2 percent of of results obtained in actual tissue. "Properly prepared" means that the gelatin is a 10 percent mixture of ballistic gelatin (Kind and Knox Type 250) prepared water heated to no more than104° F (40° C) and then stored and shot at a stabilized 39° F (4° C).

http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Zielwirkung/ak47.jpg

This is the wound profile of the 7.62x39 PS Steel Core AK-47 round at 2340 f/s. Great penetration but otherwise not very impressive, eh? The permanent cavity is flat in cross-section. I removed two sections so the image would fit on the page better. At around 60cm the bullet yawed downward and wound up base first as shown.

Link (http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Zielwirkung/Frog.html)

[memphiz]

I shot a Chinese made SKS rifle, and used 7.62 NATO ammo

I shot at a 1/4 inch steel pipe, went through one side but only made a huge dent on the other side, After putting 5 bullets through the pipe the other side (where it was denting) started to crack open....coolest thing ever

[Stl. boy]

Try this...

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32613

[GazB]

Armour penetration for the 57-N-231S steel core 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 round is 1,000m for a steel helmet, 300m for a 6mm steel plate, and 60m for a 6Zh85T vest.

[b33f]

Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?

(yes, i did multiple google searches which yielded no useful result)

What material do you wish to penetrate? I may be able to help or refer you to a site that can be of service to you.


Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?

(yes, i did multiple google searches which yielded no useful result)

AKA rolled homogenous armor

@Dennis G: as AmericanPatriot (thank you) stated above.. rolled homogenous armor aka rolled steel (i'd say) ... i'd need to know how much steel an AK47 bullet (Armour Piercing) is able to penetrate, given ideal parameters

@GazB: Can you tell me what the characteristics of an 6Zh85T vest are? (google search yielded zero results)

@Stl. boy: thank you for the link but i knew that a SAPI plate is able to stop an 7.62x39mm AP round.

@memphiz: interesting, do you know how much difference there is between shooting a 1/2 inch steel plate and 2 (in your case) 1/4 inch sections and an air pocket inbetween (i mean there must be a reason for spacing steel plates on tanks (air pockets inbetween))? edit: forget it, (but thank you) researching the AP characteristics of an 7.62x51mm AP round wasn't difficult, (12mm maximum, M993, source: fas.org)

@all: thanks for the ressources

[REMOV]

Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?7,62 mm PS (normal, steel core bullet, weight 7,91 g) can pierce 3,5 mm thick RHA plate from 280 m. The same plate is pierce by 5,56 mm SS109 from 640 m, 5,56 mm M193 - 400 m, 7,62 mm NATO 620 m, 5,45 mm 555 m.

At the 200 m (at angle 90 degrees) the 7,62 mm BZ (i.e. AP round, weight 7,77 g) has 90% chance to pierce 7 mm thick armor, from 300 m the chance is lowered to the 50%.

The PS (normal round with steel core) at the 900 m has 85% chance to penetrate steel helmet. The BS (AP round) at the 1100 m has 85 % chance to penetrate the same steel helmet.

[Sabre]

I shot a Chinese made SKS rifle, and used 7.62 NATO ammo

I shot at a 1/4 inch steel pipe, went through one side but only made a huge dent on the other side, After putting 5 bullets through the pipe the other side (where it was denting) started to crack open....coolest thing ever

Now THAT's intelligent! ;)

[memphiz]

I shot a Chinese made SKS rifle, and used 7.62 NATO ammo

I shot at a 1/4 inch steel pipe, went through one side but only made a huge dent on the other side, After putting 5 bullets through the pipe the other side (where it was denting) started to crack open....coolest thing ever

Now THAT's intelligent! ;)
:D haha thanks, ,we knew the bullets wouldnt rikochet, they kinda just disintigrate



@memphiz: interesting, do you know how much difference there is between shooting a 1/2 inch steel plate and 2 (in your case) 1/4 inch sections and an air pocket inbetween (i mean there must be a reason for spacing steel plates on tanks (air pockets inbetween))? edit: forget it, (but thank you) researching the AP characteristics of an 7.62x51mm AP round wasn't difficult, (12mm maximum, M993, source: fas.org)
Yeah I wouldnt have a slightest clue, It was just cool to see what the bullet did to the pole...

[b33f]

Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?7,62 mm PS (normal, steel core bullet, weight 7,91 g) can pierce 3,5 mm thick RHA plate from 280 m. The same plate is pierce by 5,56 mm SS109 from 640 m, 5,56 mm M193 - 400 m, 7,62 mm NATO 620 m, 5,45 mm 555 m.

At the 200 m (at angle 90 degrees) the 7,62 mm BZ (i.e. AP round, weight 7,77 g) has 90% chance to pierce 7 mm thick armor, from 300 m the chance is lowered to the 50%.

The PS (normal round with steel core) at the 900 m has 85% chance to penetrate steel helmet. The BS (AP round) at the 1100 m has 85 % chance to penetrate the same steel helmet.

thanks for the information!

can you tell me whether 200m is the ideal distance (or near-ideal distance) for penetration for a 7,62mm BZ?.. i ask because i read before that rifle bullets don't penetrate too well at close distances and rather tend to fragment...

[GazB]

can you tell me whether 200m is the ideal distance (or near-ideal distance) for penetration for a 7,62mm BZ?.. i ask because i read before that rifle bullets don't penetrate too well at close distances and rather tend to fragment...

Russian ammo tends to be steel cored, which would not disintegrate well and tends to maintain shape better than western ball rounds which have lead cores.

Regarding the vest... sorry that is just from the brochure for the ammo.

[Durandal]

I've been searching for a good supplier for rolled steel plates at my range. This is my own person experience all of the rounds were fired from 100 yards away in the same conditions at a 12" by 24" static AND reactive plate 3/8" steel plate I ordered from a local shop.

7.62x39 (a variety of makes and grains seemed to all perform the same)
• HPs no penetration on splash.
• FMJs no thru penetration, 1/3 penetration, large dimple.

5.56
• FMJ no thru penetration, 1/2 penetrations, small deep dimple

7.62x51
• FMJ complete penetration on non-reactive plate, near penetration of reactive plate.

.30-06
• complete penetration on all plates.

.454 (from 75yrd)
• no penetration, splash, slight dimpling

.45 and 9mm (from 75 yrd)
• (pistol and carbine FMJ, Soft, and HPs) splash, no penetration, no visible dimpling (neither round does this at 5 yards either).

12 ga
• Shot and buck, obviously, no effect, lucky to have a pellet contact at 100 yards
• Solid Slug 2.75" and 3.5" seem to have the same penetration. Roughly 1/4 penetration with a large dimple.
• Sabot will attain nearly 1/2 penetration using a 3.5" round.

Nothing scientific, but simply my experience. I need to buy some denser steel for certain, but that shows you what the rounds do to stock metal.

[perdurabo]

I shot a Chinese made SKS rifle, and used 7.62 NATO ammo

I shot at a 1/4 inch steel pipe, went through one side but only made a huge dent on the other side, After putting 5 bullets through the pipe the other side (where it was denting) started to crack open....coolest thing ever
SKS and 7,62x51??
dude SKS is 7.62x39 same as AK ...

[Aussie E]

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/fl_aw_report2.txt


STOCKTON -- THE FACTS by Martin L. Fackler, MD

Madman shoots 35 in Stockton schoolyard; 30 of those hit survive. That
would have been the appropriate headline. Why did the media dwell almost
exclusively on the five that did not survive?
A military type AK-47 rifle was used. Full-metal-jacketed military type
bullets were used. That 86% of those children recovered from their wounds comes
as no surprise to those who understand this particular bullet's wounding
potential
. Those familiar with the international laws governing warfare
recognize that the military full-metal-jacketed bullet is specifically designed
to limit tissue disruption -- to wound rather than to kill. Purportedly
mandated for "humanitarian" reasons by the Hague Peace Conference of 1899, this
type of bullet actually proves to be more effective for most warfare. It
removes not only the one hit from the ranks of the combatants, but also those
needed to care for him.
Full-metal-jacketed bullets
are prohibited for hunting; they are too likely
to wound rather than kill. Most full-metal-jacketed AK-47 bullets do not deform
significantly on striking the body, unless they strike bone. They
characteristically travel point-forward until they penetrate 9 to 10 inches of
tissue (if a bullet yaws, turning sideways during its tissue path, it causes
increased disruption). This means that most AK-47 shots will pass through the
body causing no greater damage that produced by handgun bullets. The limi
ted
tissue disruption produced by this weapon in the Stockton schoolyard is
consistent with well documented data from Vietnam (the Wound Data and Munitions
Effectiveness Team collected approximately 700 cases of AK-47 hits), as well as
with controlled research studies from various wound ballistics laboratories.
To put the 17 January 1989 Stockton incident in context, it must be
compared with past shootings:
1. Only four of the eleven shot at the ESL Co. in Sunnyvale, CA, on 16
February 1988,
survived. The weapon was a 12 gauge shotgun.
2. Only eleven of the thirty-two shot in the MacDonalds (24 July 1984, San
Ysidro, CA) survived. Of the three weapons used, the deadliest weapon by far
was a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun.
The overwhelming majority of the media coverage of the Stockton shooting
has consisted of misstatements, exaggerations and inappropriate comparisons.
It is ironic, in this country where firearms have played such a prominent
historic role, that the general kn
owledge of weapon effects has become so
distorted. Cinema and TV accounts of shootings constantly distort and
exaggerate bullet effect. When shot, people do not get knocked backwards by the
bullet; nor do they become instantly incapacitated, as usually depicted.
False expectations resulting from these misleading performances have
confused crime scene investigators, law enforcement and military trainers, and
our courts of law. Exaggerations of weapon effects in the post Vietnam era even
affect
ed wound treatment adversely. It is just within the past year, that these
errors in military treatment doctrine have been corrected ("Emergency War
Surgery - NATO Handbook", Washington, DC, GPO, 1988).
 Television accounts showing assault rifles exploding watermelons, newspaper
descriptions comparing their effects to "a grenade exploding in the abdomen,"
and describing organs being destroyed and bones pulverized by apparently magic
"shock waves" from these "high-velocity" bullets must cause the t
hinking
individual to ask: If these rifles really cause such effects, how is it possible
that thirty children (actually 29 children and one teacher) hit in that Stockton
schoolyard survived?
The effects of the media frenzy have been to produce at least a four-fold
increase in the number of AK-47's in California. This immense demand has drawn
stocks of these weapons from all over the USA and abroad. If producers of these
weapons had advertised their effects as portrayed by the media, they would
be
liable to prosecution under our truth in advertising laws. When the same
misinformation is presented by the "free press" it is apparently perfectly
legal.
These are the facts. Why have you not seen them in the reports of this
incident? Ask the media. Ask them also about accountability and
responsibility. Corrections have been offered, in writing, to the "New York
Times", the "San Francisco Examiner", and the "Oakland Tribune", with no
response. Phone conversations with media sources m
ade clear their preference
for the more dramatic misconceptions and exaggerations over verified scientific
facts.
Everyone with a political axe to grind that can be even remotely related to
the Stockton schoolyard shooting is coming out of the woodwork for their share
of the free publicity ride on the media-produced emotional frenzy roller-
coaster. It's really sad, if not downright disrespectful, to see the deaths of
those children used to produce the lynch-mob/three-ring-circus atmosphere ext
ant
recently in the California State Legislature.
The lack of any comprehensive data on gunshot wounds (incidence related to
weapon type, bullet type, outcome, etc.) has long been a serious handicap in
considering how to approach the gun problem. The situation has now been
compounded by unprecedented media zeal. Zeal mixed with misinformation is a
prescription for disaster. The exaggerations used to whip up their emotional
frenzy have, at the same time, deprived the public of the established
facts
about weapon effects.
Gunshot wounds pose a serious problem. Any sensible solution demands sober
consideration of valid data on wound frequency, severity, circumstances, and
treatment. Considering the many thousands of shootings in our urban areas each
year, competent collection of these data on a national basis could, in a short
time, define the problem realistically and objectively. Both sides of the gun
control argument should replace confrontation with cooperation by jointly
sponso
ring a National Gunshot Wound Study. Valid, objective data might then
replace uninformed exaggeration and hysteria as a guide to action.
The assault rifle fiasco brings to light a far more basic problem: Who is
to protect the public from a zealous media whose "cause" takes them beyond bias
to falsehood and fabrication?
FACTS Martin L. Fackler, MD, FACS

1. Military full-metal-jacketed bullets, such as those used on the Stockton
schoolyard, are des
igned to limit tissue disruption -- to wound rather than
kill. In warfare, this bullet is effective: it removes not only those hit from
the ranks of the combatants, but also others needed to care for them. These
bullets are prohibited for hunting because they lack killing power. Bullet
type, not weapon type, is the critical factor in determining the amount of body
tissue disrupted.

2. Most full-metal-jacketed AK-47 bullets do not deform unless they strike
bone. They travel point-forward throu
gh 9 to 10 inches of tissue before they
yaw (turn sideways, and strike more tissue). Thus, these bullets generally
cause no greater damage than handgun bullets. The results from the Stockton
schoolyard (35 hit, 30 survivors) are consistent with data from Vietnam (700
cases of AK-47 hits were studied in detail), as well as with studies from wound
ballistics laboratories.

3. To put the 17 January 1989 Stockton shooting in context:

A. Only four of the eleven shot by Richard Farley at
the ESL Co. in
Sunnyvale, CA, on 16 February 1988, survived. The weapon was a
12 gauge shotgun.

B. Only seven of the twenty-one shot by Christian Dornier on 12 July
1989, in Luxiol, France, survived. The weapon was a 12 gauge
shotgun.

C. Twelve of the twenty shot by Joseph Wesbecker on 14 September
1989, in Louisville, KY, survived. The weapon was an AK-47 rifle
(which he had boug
ht in May or June 1989).

D. Thirty of the thirty-five shot by Patrick Purdy in Stockton
survived. The weapon was an AK-47 rifle.

SHOTGUN -- 33% survived
RIFLE -- 76% survived

4. The overwhelming majority of the Stockton shooting media coverage has
consisted of misstatements and exaggerations. Television reports showing
assault rifles exploding watermelons, newspaper descriptions comparing their
effects to "a grenade exploding in th
e abdomen", and describing organs being
destroyed and bones pulverized by apparently magic "shock waves" from these
"high-velocity" bullets must cause the thinking individual to ask: if these
rifles cause such effects, how is it possible that 30 out of the 35 hit on the
Stockton schoolyard survived?
5. The result of the media created frenzy, in California, has been more than a
four-fold increase the number of AK-47s, AR-15s, etc. despite the tripling of
their price.

6. Good sense demands that
any action be supported by historical precedent.

"No matter how one approaches the figures, one is forced to the rather
startling conclusion that the use of firearms in crime was very much less
when there were no controls of any sort... Half a century of strict
controls on pistols has ended, perversely, with a far greater use of this
class of weapon in crime than ever before."
Greenwood, C. "firearms Control", London, Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1972
p.243.

N
ot only have the many thousands of gun laws in the USA failed to have the
desired effect, they have been counterproductive.

7. Near total noncompliance has resulted from "assault rifle" laws passed in
California. Recent reports from Denver also indicate massive noncompliance.
Our law enforcement judicial system can ill afford the weakening resulting from
such wholesale noncompliance.

8. The first step in any rational approach is defining a problem's magnitude
and scope. Is the total number
of deaths caused by firearms (the often cited
30,000 per year), including suicides (over one-half of the total), felons killed
while committing a crime, terrorist hostage takers killed by police, killings in
self-defense, hunting accidents, etc. an appropriate focus? Or are we primarily
interested in the criminal use of firearms? Whatever the scope decided upon,
both sides must confine their figures to it alone in order to avoid the
distortions and inconsistencies ("comparing apples and oranges") t
hat have been
conspicuous in previous "gun" debates.

9. Lack of any comprehensive, reliable data on gunshot wounds (incidence
related to weapon type, bullet type, treatment, outcome, etc.) is a serious
handicap. Media distortions have created an emotional frenzy and, at the same
time, deprived the public of the established facts about bullet effects.
Sensible problem solving requires sober consideration of valid data. Competent
collection of data from urban shootings could define the problem r
ealistically
and objectively. Instead of wasting millions of dollars fighting each other,
both sides of the gun control dispute should jointly sponsor an ongoing National
Gunshot Wound Study. Valid, objective data might then replace uninformed
exaggeration, bias, and hysteria as a guide to action.
WOUNDING EFFECTS OF THE AK-47 RIFLE USED BY PATRICK PURDY IN THE STOCKTON
SCHOOLYARD SHOOTING OF 17 JANUARY 1989
by Fackler, M.L., Malinowski, J. A., Hoxie, S.W., Jason, A.


ABSTRACT

The limited disruption produced in tissue simulant by the rifle and bullets used

in the Stockton schoolyard shooting is entirely consistent with the autopsy

reports of the five children who died from their wounds. It is also entirely

consistent with well documented battlefield studies and with previous tissue

simulant studies from many laboratories It is inconsistent with many

exaggerated accounts of "assault rifle" wounding effects described by the media

in the
aftermath of this incident. This information should be documented for

the historical record. However, the critical reason for correcting the

misconceptions produced by the media reaction to this incident is to prevent

injurious distortion of gunshot wound treatment.




KEY WORDS -- wound ballistics, military rifle bullets, assault rifle, ballistic

injury, wound treatment.
Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 2

On 17 January 1989 Patrick Purdy used a semi-automatic AK-47 Chines
e

military type rifle (Norinco, serial #MS010963) to fire 104 shots into a

schoolyard filled with children in Stockton, California. All of the bullets

that he fired were 124 grain full-metal-jacketed military type loaded in 7.62 X

39 mm cartridges, made by the Federal Cartridge Company, Anoka, Minnesota

(documented in the Stockton Criminalistics Laboratory by identification of the

empty cartridge cases recovered from the crime scene). Thirty-five of the

individuals in the school
yard were injured by Purdy's bullets. Thirty of the

thirty-five wounded were treated in eight hospitals and survived their wounds.

Five died on the schoolyard.

The media seized on the Stockton incident with sensationalistic zeal.

Distortions, exaggerations and uninformed assumptions were presented as fact.

Corrections of factual errors were, in most cases, ignored. The public and

medical personnel called upon to treat shooting victims have consequently been

deprived
of the established facts about the true effects of "assault rifles".

These failings have made this paper necessary. For any chance of a rational

solution, the gunshot wound problem must be approached with verified facts and

competently collected data.
Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle --3


METHODS

Eight shots were fired from a distance of 3 meters into 25X25X50 cm blocks

of 10% ordnance gelatin placed end to end at 4 degrees C gelatin tempera
ture.

This gelatin has been shown to reproduce the projectile deformation and

penetration depth seen in living animal muscle (1). Sufficient gelatin blocks
were placed end-to-end to capture the entire projectile path. The rifle was

fired from a fixed rest. Five shots were fired using the Federal 124 grain

full-metal-jacketed ammunition found in Purdy's possession. This was identical

to the ammunition shot on the Stockton schoolyard. One shot each was also fired

using a Winchest
er-Western full-metal-jacketed bullet, a full-metal-jacketed

bullet of Chinese manufacture (Norinco), and a Winchester-Western 123 grain

soft-point bullet. All of these bullet types were found in Purdy's possession.

Velocity was recorded and tissue disruption measured as described in the wound

profile methodology (1).

Autopsy reports on the five children who died of their wounds were

reviewed, and hospitals were the survivors were treated were contacted for

follow-up informa
tion.



Wounding effects -- AK-47 -- 4

RESULTS

Numerical results of the shots are listed in Table 1. Figure one shows the

five Federal full-metal-jacketed bullets recovered from the gelatin blocks. The

last bullet on the right is listed as number five in Table 1. It passed out the

side of the gelatin block (at 66 cm penetration depth) and struck the wall of

the shooting range. These Federal bullets have a copper jacket and a lead co
re;

they all deformed slightly in the gelatin (bases flattened to approximately 5 X

9.5 mm -- see Fig. 1). The bases of these Federal full-metal-jacketed bullets

were unusual; they had a conical depression about 4 mm deep in the lead core. A

similar depression has been seen in only one bullet previously shot in our

laboratory -- the 7.62 X 54 R, used in Russian and Chinese light machine guns

and sniper rifles. The Winchester-Western full-metal-jacketed bullet (No. 7,

Table 1) per
formed identically to the Federal bullets. The Norinco full-metal-

jacketed bullet did not deform at all, as expected, because its largely steel

core is much more resistant to compression than lead, as shown second from the

left in Figure two.

The maximum temporary cavity diameters estimated from the radial cracks in

the gelatin (1) were all between 14 and 16 cm in diameter, and their location

was at a penetration depth 6 - 12 cm deep to the location where the bullet yaw

began
(see Fig. 3).

Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 5

The Winchester-Western soft-point bullet deformed by flattening its tip and


expanding its diameter to 15 X 16.5 mm. It also lost 22 percent of its weight

through bullet fragmentation (see lower right, Figure two), and its temporary

cavity began after only a few cm of penetration, where bullet expansion

occurred.

Summary of autopsy findings:

1. In each child the bullet path passed through a vital structure. In one


case it was the head, another the heart, another the liver, another the lungs,

and the last, the aorta and spinal cord.

2. On two occasions a second shot was reported to have passed through a hand,

and in one case, through a foot. In one of the hand perforations, it is

unequivocal that it was a second shot rather than the same shot perforating two

body parts. In this case, the bullet had passed through the sternum, the heart,

and then through a vertebral body; the bullet was fou
nd just under the skin of

the back. This was the only bullet retained in the body on any of the

autopsies.

3. The weights of the children were 20, 18, 26, 19, and 25 kg.

4. The largest tissue disruption in any of the organs was approximately 3.81

cm, in the right lobe of the liver.

5. There was no damage to any organ not hit directly by a bullet.

Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 6

DISCUSSION

All of the full-metal-jacketed bullet
s followed the basic pattern described

previously (2) and shown in the wound profile (Fig. 3). The Federal full-

metal-jacketed bullets used by Purdy are of flat base design and shorter in

length than the military rounds (compare Figs 1 and 2). Their mean penetration

distance before significant yaw (13.7 cm) is considerably shorter than that of

the Ak-47 military round as shown on the wound profile (25 cm) and that seen in

shot number 7 (20 cm).

That 86% of the wounded survived
is not surprising to those who are

familiar with the relatively mild wounding characteristics of the Ak-47 military

round (3). The Russian/Chinese military full-metal-jacketed AK-47 bullets, with

steel cores, do not deform on striking the body, unless they hit bone. These

AK-47 bullets characteristically travel point-forward until they penetrate 25 cm

of tissue. Only when this type bullet yaws, turning sideways during its tissue

path, does it cause significantly increased disruption
(Fig. 3). Therefore,

many AK-47 shots will pass through the body causing no greater damage than that

produced by nonexpanding handgun bullets. The limited tissue disruption

produced by this weapon in the Stockton schoolyard is consistent with well

documented data from Vietnam (the Wound Data and Munitions Effectiveness Team

collected approximately 700 cases of Ak-47 hits), as well as with controlled
Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 7

research studies from wound ballistics labora
tories (2-4).

Our study shows the Federal full-metal-jacketed bullets used by Purdy yaw

(increase the angle between the bullet long axis and the bullet path) at a

shallower penetration depth than the standard Russian/Chinese military

ammunition. Ordinarily, this action should make these bullets more disruptive.

However, the children shot were small (18-26 kg), obviously increasing the

chances for a bullet to pass through the body before yawing to a significant

degree, and un
doubtedly contributing to the high survival rate. The slight

flattening seen in the lead-core Federal bullets does not add significantly to

the wound size. The magnitude of the tissue disruption reported from the fatal

shots inflicted by the AK-47 bullets fired by Purdy was, in fact, no greater

than that produced by many common handgun bullets.

Much of the media coverage generated by the Stockton shooting has

contained misstatements and exaggerations. The myth of "shock waves"
resounding

from these "high velocity" bullets "pulverizing bones and exploding organs"

(even if they were not hit by the bullet) "like a bomb" going off in the body

was repeated by the media, in certain cases even after they were furnished solid

evidence disproving these absurdities (5). None of the autopsies showed damage

beyond the projectile path. One "expert" was quoted as stating that the death

rate from "assault weapons ... approaches 50 percent" (6). Another, reporting

on
the effects of "high speed" bullets, stated "Most of those hit in an
Wounding effects -- AK-47 -- 8

extremity will end up with amputations. If you're hit in the trunk, it becomes

a lethal injury ..." (7). On the Stockton schoolyard, the death rate was 14

percent and none died later; none required extremity amputation. Extensive war

wound experience (Wound Data and Munitions Effectiveness Team information on

1400 cases of rifle wounds from the Vietnam conflict) and laboratory studies


with the AK-47 are consistent with the Stockton injuries (2-4). The first

author of this paper has treated many nonlethal trunk wounds from a variety of

"assault rifles". In his experience, extremity wounds from these weapons

requiring amputation are extremely rare. The "assault rifle" shoots a bullet

that is intermediate in power between the regular infantry rifle and a handgun.

Trunk wounds are lethal when they hit vital structures, as supported by the

autopsy findings from
Stockton.

Pertinent to the material reviewed for this paper, the Chief of Police of

the City of San Jose, Joseph D. McNamara, stated, "One bullet hitting a child in

Stockton, took out his entire stomach." (8). Our review of the autopsy reports

shows that only one of the children killed by Mr. Purdy in the Stockton

schoolyard had damage to the stomach. It states, "STOMACH: There is a

perforating wound of the antrum due to passage of the bullet. The stomach is

otherwise normal
. There is no spillage of gastric contents." An unsuspecting

public and medical community might accept Chief McNamara's highly exaggerated

description as fact.
Wounding effect -- AK-47 Rifle -- 9

The exaggerated assault rifle effects presented by the media have had the

pernicious effect of causing an unprecedented demand for "assault rifles".

Estimates from sales figures indicate that the number of these weapons in

California has greatly increased since the Stockton shooting

[Baltic]

I can say from my experience that AK47 7.62x39 rikochet much more than NATO 7.62x51.

[b33f]

thanks alot everybody for providing thoughts, comments and resources

[One_A]

Can anybody tell me how much RHA an 7.62x39mm AP round (fired from an AK47 or similar) is able to penetrate (given an ideal hit angle, range, other conditions) ?

(yes, i did multiple google searches which yielded no useful result)

I tell you from personal experience, that ammunition will penetrate the IBA at 100m.