US Forces Loose Control of Key City-Westerner Beheaded.

[achilles]

By Patrick Cockburn in Baghdad
18 December 2004

Gunmen raked a car with machine-gun fire in the northern city of Mosul yesterday, killing three foreigners and their driver. They then cut off the head of one of their victims.

The killings show that at the same time as the US was recapturing Fallujah in a heavily publicised assault it largely lost control of Mosul, Iraq's northern capital. Though US troops launched a counter-attack, their grip on the city remains tenuous. The four men who died yesterday were travelling in a white sedan when it was attacked with automatic weapons and set on fire at a traffic intersection in Mosul.

One of the foreigners was briefly captured by the insurgents, according to an eyewitness. When he tried to escape they cut his head off and left his body in a pool of blood.

A photographer for ******* news agency saw four bodies lying beside the burning car. Three of those who died appeared to be foreigners, one of whom looked Turkish and the other two European. The fourth body, possibly of the driver, was partly burnt, but appeared to be that of an Arab.

The men were carrying small automatic weapons, indicating that they may have been working for one of the private security companies in Iraq.

Mosul, a city on the Tigris river with a population of 1.2 million, is largely populated by Sunni Muslims but has a large Kurdish minority. It has increasingly fallen into the hands of Sunni insurgents over the past six weeks.

Insurgents launched an uprising on 10 November, two days after the US Marines started their attack on Mosul, and stormed 10 police stations. Out of a local police force of 8,000, all but 1,000 have deserted and only 400 of those remaining are considered reliable.

Earlier in the year, the US occupation of Mosul by the 101st Airborne was presented as a model of what the occupation should have been in the rest of the country. Several thousand army officers publicly renounced Baathism. The local police force was being built up. The unpopular political parties of returned exiles in Baghdad were kept at bay.

Until the past few months, guerrilla attacks in Mosul were both less frequent and less effective than further south around Baghdad. This may have been because Mosul and Nineveh province, of which it is the centre, was never seen as a bastion of support for Saddam Hussein. But the city was always a nationalist centre and a recruiting ground for the officer corps of the Iraqi army. The defence minister under the old regime was usually from Mosul.

Unlike Fallujah, the guerrillas did not contest the recapture of Mosul by US and Iraqi forces in November. Leaflets were issued instructing fighters to hide their weapons and stay in the city. Since then 150 bodies have found, many of them members of the National Guard or other security forces. US forces in Iraq are being built up from 138,000 to 150,000 men and are already stretched trying to hold Sunni Muslim cities and towns around Baghdad. They were never able to surround Fallujah, even at the height of the battle last month, and many fighters escaped.

Much of the US Army in Iraq is tied down providing support services, guarding fixed positions or protecting convoys that are frequently attack. US patrols often seem to serve no particular purpose but severely disrupt traffic because Iraqi drivers do not want to get close to the American vehicles in case they are attacked.

In Fallujah, the mayor, Mahmoud Ibrahim, said the first families would start to return to the south of the city yesterday. But this may be in doubt because there is shelling is continuing in northern Fallujah.

There are more than 250,000 refugees who fled the city to seek shelter in Baghdad 35 miles away or the nearby city of Ramadi. Others are in camps on the city outskirts or in neighbouring villages. Fallujah has had no power or water since the US assault and these will take time to restore.
The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=594312)

[seruriermarshal]

Lose control of key city ?

Because 3 foreigners and 1 Iraqi killed ?

:roll:

[achilles]

Lose control of key city ?

Because 3 foreigners and 1 Iraqi killed ?

:roll:

perhaps you should go back to the article and take a second look ;)

[seruriermarshal]

Lose control of key city ?

Because 3 foreigners and 1 Iraqi killed ?

:roll:

perhaps you should go back to the article and take a second look ;)

This is link title :

Westerner beheaded on Mosul street as American forces lose control of key city

Media think Westerner beheaded on Mosul street = American forces lose control of key city .

[achilles]

Lose control of key city ?

Because 3 foreigners and 1 Iraqi killed ?

:roll:

perhaps you should go back to the article and take a second look ;)

This is link title :

Westerner beheaded on Mosul street as American forces lose control of key city

Media think Westerner beheaded on Mosul street = American forces lose control of key city .
Here is how the story goes:

WRONG: US forces lost control of key city because a westerner was beheaded.

RIGHT: But due to the fact that US forces have largely lost control in Mosul a westerner was beheaded. (plus other killings)

[Argyll]

Exactly....the headline is misleading!

Once again for those who have some difficulty in understanding the situation in Iraq.........there has ALWAYS been a strong level of insurgency in Mosul.........Always........it's just never got media attention,it is not something new,or something that was brought on with the Battle for Fallujah........there are Thousands of former Republican Guard and Fedayeen in Mosul.......but there are far more Kurdish Peshmergar,and they are not sympathetic to the Arab's of the former Regime!!

Every city and town in Iraq,form Tal Afar.......to Al Quiam,to Um Quasar all have their insurgency cells.....and when the media start to go about how attacks seem co-ordinated across Iraq,it's mainly because these attacks have been planned for weeks.or possible months,because as anyone who's been in Iraq.......the phone coverage for cell phones is crap,with less than 50% countrywide coverage!
So how do the guys in Mosul co-ordinate with Fallujah,unless they have Iridium's or Thuraya's.......(and very few of them have been recovered in safe houses),they cannot talk via radio's,they have to do it with runners,and errand boys.....and that takes time to organise,so most of the time,the local insurgency cell's will just meet up,plan an attack,execute it,and lay low and plan the next one......it matters not to them if it's succesful or not........that is the difference between the Coalition and the Insurgency!!

[ogukuo72]

I agree that the headline is misleading. The article gave no information to suggest that US forces have lost control of the city. Someone added their interpretation of the significance of the facts reported in the article.

It may be impossible to hold the elections in areas such as Mosul. Then the media is going to claim that the elections are a disaster.

Here's what I would advise the White House to say: would you consider the US Presidential elections to be a disaster if - say - San Francisco got hit by an earthquake on election day and it was impossible for that city to vote. Of course not.

[analyst]

if that happened then the eleection would be postponed

[achilles]

Exactly....the headline is misleading!

Once again for those who have some difficulty in understanding the situation in Iraq.........there has ALWAYS been a strong level of insurgency in Mosul.........Always........it's just never got media attention,it is not something new,or something that was brought on with the Battle for Fallujah........there are Thousands of former Republican Guard and Fedayeen in Mosul.......but there are far more Kurdish Peshmergar,and they are not sympathetic to the Arab's of the former Regime!!

Every city and town in Iraq,form Tal Afar.......to Al Quiam,to Um Quasar all have their insurgency cells.....and when the media start to go about how attacks seem co-ordinated across Iraq,it's mainly because these attacks have been planned for weeks.or possible months,because as anyone who's been in Iraq.......the phone coverage for cell phones is crap,with less than 50% countrywide coverage!
So how do the guys in Mosul co-ordinate with Fallujah,unless they have Iridium's or Thuraya's.......(and very few of them have been recovered in safe houses),they cannot talk via radio's,they have to do it with runners,and errand boys.....and that takes time to organise,so most of the time,the local insurgency cell's will just meet up,plan an attack,execute it,and lay low and plan the next one......it matters not to them if it's succesful or not........that is the difference between the Coalition and the Insurgency!!

I really dont see any incompatibility between what you say and the article. Of course your description is more detailed. From what i understand from both you and the article is that Mosul is not under control. Sure, the title is not the best that could ever be but reading the full article gives a clear picture of what it really means.

[BlackRain]

We are just a little touchy on this subject.

How would you like to see this headline?

Greek forces lose control of key city - Albanians Kidnap Innocent Civilians.

Hardly accurate and misleading.

[achilles]

We are just a little touchy on this subject.

How would you like to see this headline?

Greek forces lose control of key city - Albanians Kidnap Innocent Civilians.

Hardly accurate and misleading.

It probably has to do with the difference in our mother languages. Such a title in a Greek newspaper for example, would imply that the Greeks forces have lost control of the key city (big picture) and as part of that big picture, the non-controlled Albanians kidnapped innocent civilians (let say 'smaller picture'). Simple as that. As i said not the best title to post but seemed intuitive to me.

I ll pass on that one...its your language and you know better what is more accurate and what is not.
The point is that Mosul is not under control and this is clear both from the article's contents and Argyll's post.

[Argyll]

Achilles Mosul is under the same control as Ramadi,Baghdad,Baquaba,Tikrit,Basrah,Al Hilla,Yusifiyah.......understand what I'm getting at here?
Even Fallujah is NOT under control,at any given time the insurgecy can strike in any given town/city or village in Iraq,that does not mean they're not under control.
Masked insurgents are able to walk around certain districts within Baghdad with impunity......and kidnap and execute Westerners and Iraqi's........therfore Baghdad is not under US Control?

What is your interpretation of control?Where there are no insurgents and people live happily ever after,and the US troops don't get shot at?......Hmm let me think I'm sure people have taken potshots at some of them In Ft Bragg........oh my God.....Ft Bragg is not under control of the US Military?

You have also got to remember this is a journalist's story,and journalists "sensationalise",that's how they get these "exclusives",it's how they sell these stories especially if they're freelance,half of these assholes cannot get simple facts right anyway,and half wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a HUMVEE and a VW.......but hey,they're foking experts on Clandestine and Guerilla warfare,hold Master's degree's in Counter Insurgency and Terrorism!?.......yeah like fok they are!!

Right now,seeing as the "Free Press" are not getting sod all out of Fallujah they've moved on,and this Month it's Mosul,November was Fallujah,October was Ramadi,September was Baquaba......every network all made the same claims for these respective places,they were not under control.......,January it'll be back to Baghdad........same song,same tune,same routines,different choreographer!!!

[achilles]

Achilles Mosul is under the same control as Ramadi,Baghdad,Baquaba,Tikrit,Basrah,Al Hilla,Yusifiyah.......understand what I'm getting at here?
Even Fallujah is NOT under control,at any given time the insurgecy can strike in any given town/city or village in Iraq,that does not mean they're not under control.
Masked insurgents are able to walk around certain districts within Baghdad with impunity......and kidnap and execute Westerners and Iraqi's........therfore Baghdad is not under US Control?

What is your interpretation of control?Where there are no insurgents and people live happily ever after,and the US troops don't get shot at?......Hmm let me think I'm sure people have taken potshots at some of them In Ft Bragg........oh my God.....Ft Bragg is not under control of the US Military?

You have also got to remember this is a journalist's story,and journalists "sensationalise",that's how they get these "exclusives",it's how they sell these stories especially if they're freelance,half of these assholes cannot get simple facts right anyway,and half wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a HUMVEE and a VW.......but hey,they're foking experts on Clandestine and Guerilla warfare,hold Master's degree's in Counter Insurgency and Terrorism!?.......yeah like fok they are!!

Right now,seeing as the "Free Press" are not getting sod all out of Fallujah they've moved on,and this Month it's Mosul,November was Fallujah,October was Ramadi,September was Baquaba......every network all made the same claims for these respective places,they were not under control.......,January it'll be back to Baghdad........same song,same tune,same routines,different choreographer!!!

Yeah i understand what you are saying. Mate, we are draggin' it a bit too much to semantics. What is 'control' and stuff.
What you call a certain degree of 'control' can be equalle purported to be a certain degree of 'lack of control' am i right? Noone with a minimal amount of reason within his brains would expect kids in Iraqi cities to be playing baseball by now. Thats not what i am saying.

But you said yourself in your previous post that Mosul is sort of a special case, mainly because of its sunni populace. Now you claim that all cities enjoy the same amount of control...i presume you are speaking on a 'more-or-less' basis. IMO not all cities enjoy the same amount of calmness and control...you could verify or refute that by beiing a bit more specific.
Still, my impression is that Mosul is not under control, or at least not under a satisfactory degree of control...meaningless semantics again.

So lets make this clear. Are you happy with the situation in Mosul? Place yourself in the shoes of a general who supposedly has Mosul under his supervision. Would you call that control, lack of control, chaos, paradise or what have you?

[achilles]

From the article:

It has increasingly fallen into the hands of Sunni insurgents over the past six weeks

Is this true or not?

[JTAR7242]

There was an armed bank robbery a couple miles from my house the other day.


I think US forces have lost control...

[Argyll]

From the article:

It has increasingly fallen into the hands of Sunni insurgents over the past six weeks

Is this true or not?

Nope,like I said they've always been there,thousands of unemployed ex Republican Guard and Special Forces......the recruiting centre for Insurgents...what's stopped Mosul becoming an Insurgents Bastion is the 8-10 thousand Peshmerga surrounding the place.

Mosul and people in Mosul were getting "pinged"on every rotation I've been on,some days more ,some days less.
What has increased is their confidence,attacking at occupying Police Stations and Government Offices,sounds really bad,but for the US Military this is actually quite good,because then they know where these assclowns are,and off they go and JDAM the place,and then you're 10-15 bad guys down.......think between the lines here with this,would you rather fight an enemy who hides in the shadows,or would you rather "lure them into the open",and take the fight to them?

Fallen......as in Mosul was under seige,just like Fallujah was?.....not even close,there are places with more **** going on,but never gets reported,and that's the way it should be.
Taking over a few Police stations is hardly classed as a City under seige,when the US Military withdraws under contact from Mosul in it's entirity,then I'll say yes it's Fallen into the habds of the Insurgency.
Mosul is not a small city by the way,and it covers a huge area of land.

Here's one to think on,almost daily,and almost with impunity,the BIAP road is attacked,either by Small arms,RPG's ,IED's or VBIED's......does this equate to the BIAP road having fallen into the hands of the insurgency?

[seruriermarshal]

Lose control of key city ?

Because 3 foreigners and 1 Iraqi killed ?

:roll:

perhaps you should go back to the article and take a second look ;)

This is link title :

Westerner beheaded on Mosul street as American forces lose control of key city

Media think Westerner beheaded on Mosul street = American forces lose control of key city .
Here is how the story goes:

WRONG: US forces lost control of key city because a westerner was beheaded.

RIGHT: But due to the fact that US forces have largely lost control in Mosul a westerner was beheaded. (plus other killings)

I give you a title Mosul safe as Iraqi Security Forces and Multi-National Forces Foil Separate Insurgent Attacks, Detain six .

Iraqi Security Forces and Multi-National Forces Foil Separate Insurgent Attacks, Detain six

Mosul, Iraq -- Iraqi Security Forces and Multi-National Forces repelled separate attacks by anti-Iraqi insurgents as they attempted to seize a police station and attack an MNF convoy on Dec. 11 in Mosul. MNF Soldiers also detained six people wanted for anti-Iraqi activities and destroyed a large cache of weapons and munitions in western Mosul.

The Iraqi Police Academy came under attack during a coordinated effort by insurgent fighters to overrun the academy in southern Mosul. The Iraqi Police at the academy successfully repelled the attack preventing a reoccurrence of the events of Nov. 10, when many police stations were abandoned and later looted. This is the second time since Nov. 10 where insurgents have tried but failed to take police stations.

In western Mosul Soldiers from 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment destroyed a large cache of weapons during a patrol that consisted of several roadside bombs, rocket propelled grenades and ammunition. During the destruction of the cache, insurgents attempted to ambush the Stryker patrol when a suicide car bomber drove his vehicle into a Stryker killing himself instantly. The car bomb only slightly damaged the Stryker vehicle and seven U.S. Soldiers injured were all returned to duty. The Stryker vehicle self-recovered to a nearby MNF base demonstrating once again the survivability of the Army’s newest infantry troop carrier.

Approximately 20 insurgents then opened fire on the convoy of Soldiers using RPGs, small arms fire and indirect fire. Soldiers quickly responded with light and heavy weaponry which included synchronized close air-support. Soldiers killed an estimated 10 insurgents

In southeast Mosul, Soldiers from 3rd Battalion, 21st Infantry Regiment conducted a cordon and search and detained six people suspected of planning and conducting attacks against Iraqi civilians working with MNF. The suspects are in custody with no MNF injuries reported during the operation.

Multi-National Forces from Task Force Olympia continue to work with the Iraqi Security Forces, leaders and citizens of Iraq to make it a safe, prosperous, and democratic nation. Anyone with information should call the Joint Coordination Center’s new telephone numbers at 513462 or 07701623300.


Release #0412012g

[achilles]

From the article:

It has increasingly fallen into the hands of Sunni insurgents over the past six weeks

Is this true or not?

Nope,like I said they've always been there,thousands of unemployed ex Republican Guard and Special Forces......the recruiting centre for Insurgents...what's stopped Mosul becoming an Insurgents Bastion is the 8-10 thousand Peshmerga surrounding the place.

Mosul and people in Mosul were getting "pinged"on every rotation I've been on,some days more ,some days less.
What has increased is their confidence,attacking at occupying Police Stations and Government Offices,sounds really bad,but for the US Military this is actually quite good,because then they know where these assclowns are,and off they go and JDAM the place,and then you're 10-15 bad guys down.......think between the lines here with this,would you rather fight an enemy who hides in the shadows,or would you rather "lure them into the open",and take the fight to them?

Fallen......as in Mosul was under seige,just like Fallujah was?.....not even close,there are places with more **** going on,but never gets reported,and that's the way it should be.
Taking over a few Police stations is hardly classed as a City under seige,when the US Military withdraws under contact from Mosul in it's entirity,then I'll say yes it's Fallen into the habds of the Insurgency.
Mosul is not a small city by the way,and it covers a huge area of land.

Here's one to think on,almost daily,and almost with impunity,the BIAP road is attacked,either by Small arms,RPG's ,IED's or VBIED's......does this equate to the BIAP road having fallen into the hands of the insurgency?

No, of course not. It seems that it all comes down to how we define our terms here. You sure have a point.
So it seems that there are two ways to view the situation in Mosul:
---It is actually under control but the insurgency is strong enough to create problems on a, roughly, daily basis.
or
---The insurgency takes action more often than sporadically and that does not grand any sort of solid control over the city.

Lest all have our pick p-) ...i would be willing to take both views depending on which semantics i will employ, and based on your posts.

[chauncy republicans]

I give you a title Mosul safe as Iraqi Security Forces and Multi-National Forces Foil Separate Insurgent Attacks, Detain six .

The title implys that the two incidents coincided with each other...


Westerner beheaded on Mosul street as American forces lose control of key city

...just as this one does.
Notice how they used the word as? Why dont you go talk to Farmgirl?

[Skullknight]

Lose control of key city ?

Because 3 foreigners and 1 Iraqi killed ?

:roll:
Over 150 people have been executed in Mosul since the assault on Fallujah.

[cut]

I give you a title Mosul safe as Iraqi Security Forces and Multi-National Forces Foil Separate Insurgent Attacks, Detain six .

The title implys that the two incidents coincided with each other...


Westerner beheaded on Mosul street as American forces lose control of key city

...just as this one does.
Notice how they used the word as? Why dont you go talk to Farmgirl?

I don't see the problem with that.

I drink a cup of tea as I read militaryphotos.net

I'm not drinking tea because of this site, and I'm not reading this site because I'm drinking tea.

Similarly the title is entirely correct, because article titles are often shortened they can have multiple meanings, that's intentional, to get you to read the article...

[Aerosoul]

By Patrick Cockburn in Baghdad
18 December 2004

Earlier in the year, the US occupation of Mosul by the 101st Airborne was presented as a model of what the occupation should have been in the rest of the country. Several thousand army officers publicly renounced Baathism. The local police force was being built up. The unpopular political parties of returned exiles in Baghdad were kept at bay.
The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=594312)

101st is perhaps the best conventional unit we got. I have a friend who's Air Assault with the 101 and is returning early next year with them.
I really do think that with enough of the 101 over there, things will change.

[Kenshin]

Damn [some] Journalist... theyll write anything just to make a buck out of it.

[seruriermarshal]

I give you a title Mosul safe as Iraqi Security Forces and Multi-National Forces Foil Separate Insurgent Attacks, Detain six .

The title implys that the two incidents coincided with each other...


Westerner beheaded on Mosul street as American forces lose control of key city

...just as this one does.
Notice how they used the word as? Why dont you go talk to Farmgirl?

I don't see the problem with that.

I drink a cup of tea as I read militaryphotos.net

I'm not drinking tea because of this site, and I'm not reading this site because I'm drinking tea.

Similarly the title is entirely correct, because article titles are often shortened they can have multiple meanings, that's intentional, to get you to read the article...

I see problem with that .

You drink a cup of tea as you read militaryphotos.net .

Both of incidents happen to you ( If that's truely ) .

Who Drink a cup of tea and read militaryphotos.net ? Answer that's you .

To the title : Westerner beheaded on Mosul street as American forces lose control of key city

American forces lose control of key city , that's media's idea .
Maybe right or wrong .

Westerner beheaded on Mosul street , that's a incident .
It happen .


Like this title :

I'm glad as I wrong .

Two incidents coincided with each other .

But why I put both of incidents in a title ?

You tell me because article titles are often shortened they can have multiple meanings, that's intentional, to get you to read the article...

That's two problem : For read the article and Produce the illusion ?