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NcDeuce
12-19-2004, 06:11 PM
Signature on death letters fuels Rumsfeld criticism
Hagel: Signing letters to next of kin is 'least we could expect'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faced renewed criticism Sunday from lawmakers, including one prominent Republican, after he said he has not personally signed letters sent to family members of troops killed in action.

Rumsfeld made the acknowledgment in a statement to military newspaper Stars and Stripes, saying that he would begin signing such letters.

Stars and Stripes had reported that Rumsfeld's letters carried a mechanical reproduction of his signature, which angered some military families.

Sen. Chuck Hagel, a leading GOP critic of Rumsfeld, called the news about the letters "astounding," and noted that President Bush signs each of his letters to military families.

"I think it's very reflective of how out of touch this crowd is," the Nebraskan said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "My goodness, that's the least that we could expect of the secretary of defense."

But Bush chief of staff Andrew Card said Rumsfeld enjoys the president's confidence, and Sen. John Cornyn of Texas said Rumsfeld's dismissal would be "a gift to the jihadists and the insurgents" in Iraq.

"Secretary Rumsfeld is doing a spectacular job, and the president has great confidence in him," Card said on ABC's "This Week."

"He is helping to lead our troops as they meet an awesome responsibility to protect us and to bring freedom to others. He's also transforming the military. And any time you do that, there are controversies."

More than 1,300 U.S. troops have died in Iraq, and more than 1,000 of those have been killed in combat. In fighting in Afghanistan and elsewhere, more than 60 have been killed in hostile action.

In his statement published Friday, Rumsfeld said he "wrote and approved the now more than 1,000 letters sent to family members and next of kin of each of the servicemen and women killed in military action.

"While I have not individually signed each one, in the interest of ensuring expeditious contact with grieving family members, I have directed that in the future I sign each letter."


Charges of failed leadership

But his critics characterized the flap as another failure of Rumsfeld's leadership.

Hagel, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said some fellow Republicans have argued that the dispute over Rumsfeld is a matter of style over substance.

"I would suggest that those who believe that, in my party and elsewhere, they better wake up and smell the coffee," he said.

"We're isolating ourselves in the world ... And I think that the leadership of the Pentagon has done that in many ways to us," Hagel said. "This issue of a secretary of defense not personally signing these letters is just astounding."

And Sen. Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat, told CBS he was "shocked."

"We ask these young men and women to sacrifice themselves, to give their lives," said Reed, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "I believe it's part of that leadership of that department that the secretary of defense would personally write these letters, personally sign them at least."

Some lawmakers have complained that Rumsfeld failed to adequately plan and equip troops for the resistance in Iraq. Those complaints increased this month when a soldier asked Rumsfeld directly at a town hall meeting in Kuwait why some troops were not provided with armor for vehicles.

Rumsfeld said armor was being produced as quickly as "humanly possible" -- which turned out not to be true. Some lawmakers said they have long been telling the White House that manufacturers were not working at capacity and were offering to make more.

Sen. Evan Bayh, an Indiana Democrat, said on CNN's "Late Edition" that he was among them.

Although Rumsfeld has agreed to sign the letters, Bayh said, "What's most important here is that we do what it takes to minimize the number of letters that have to be sent."

He accused the administration of failing to recognize its errors.

"We have to learn from these mistakes so that we do better to minimize the number of casualties to win this thing," Bayh said. "It's the lack of any introspection that I find to be very troubling."


Polarizing figure

Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona has said he has no confidence in the defense secretary, but Bush has said he wants Rumsfeld to stay.

Republican sources told CNN before the presidential election last month that some top GOP figures were holding off on criticizing the Bush administration until after the vote -- but would then give the president an earful.

Still, some Republicans remain supportive of the secretary. Sen. Richard Lugar, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, told reporters Sunday that Rumsfeld is learning from the criticism.

"To go through another secretary of defense set of hearings and nominations and all the turmoil of this would be very destructive in my judgment to the momentum of what we need to do," the Indiana Republican said.

Aerosoul
12-19-2004, 06:31 PM
Saw this this morning on Face the Nation.

Some will say, "Why are they maing such a big deal about it?" I'll ****ing tell ya why. If Rumsfeld can't do what has historically been done by the Sec of Defense, which is signing a letter to the families of the fallen himself...then what DOES he do?

It may not mean much, in fact it may mean absolutely nothing to those without friends or family in Iraq, A-stan etc, but I know the families would most likely be quite aggrevated the SECDEF can't sign a damn letter.

If my friends (I know many people over in Iraq right now) come home in a body bag and that letter is signed by a machine, I'm gonna be raising hell.

The troops give their lives and Rumsfeld lets a machine do his job. **** him.

usa320
12-19-2004, 10:11 PM
its my personal opinion that having a civilian secretary of defense is pointless.

They sould just have the Chairman of the joint cheifs or some other high ranking military person in charge of the D0D.

Aerosoul
12-19-2004, 10:17 PM
Yup...agreed. A civilian SECDEF is quite a rediculous idea. I'd love to see Wesley Clark in there--now. I rooted for him for Prez until he had to drop out...sigh.

charlie
12-19-2004, 11:57 PM
It just shows you how much a man in a suit really cares. How many more of those are there anyway? Would you like to die for a man like this?

In the end your only a number and a burden to future political aspirations. Like how it's always been.

Mailman
12-20-2004, 07:07 AM
So you are saying that of the 292,131 soldiers killed in action and the 115,187 who died of other causes in World War Two their families received personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

What about the 60,000 odd soldiers killed in Vietnam, did their families also receive personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

You know...I think the Secretary Of Defences time could be used "better" doing other "more important" things...like sorting out armour for trucks and so on.

Mailman

Marmot1
12-20-2004, 08:11 AM
So you are saying that of the 292,131 soldiers killed in action and the 115,187 who died of other causes in World War Two their families received personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

What about the 60,000 odd soldiers killed in Vietnam, did their families also receive personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

You know...I think the Secretary Of Defences time could be used "better" doing other "more important" things...like sorting out armour for trucks and so on.

Mailman

come on giving few signatures a day isn't very time consuming... but for families it mean a lot...

Baboonass
12-20-2004, 09:31 AM
So you are saying that of the 292,131 soldiers killed in action and the 115,187 who died of other causes in World War Two their families received personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

What about the 60,000 odd soldiers killed in Vietnam, did their families also receive personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

You know...I think the Secretary Of Defences time could be used "better" doing other "more important" things...like sorting out armour for trucks and so on.

Mailman


It's a good point, and in both the conflicts you just stated it would be incredibly time consuming to sign over 1000 (avarge) consolation letters a day.

For the record, the loss of life in Iraq is pretty minor by comparison, so signing a few letters really shouldn't be too much to ask.

On the other hand, I heard on the news that he wrote every letter, so it is possible that he wrote them by dictation, and just wasn't around to sign them.

As usual, we should probably wait untill all the facts are in before jumping on the dogpile.

Baboonass
12-20-2004, 09:38 AM
It just shows you how much a man in a suit really cares. How many more of those are there anyway? Would you like to die for a man like this?

.


Pashaw.

You don't serve your country to die for anyone. Why would you put your life on the line for this man? Because you made an oath that you would. Because you made an oath to follow the orders of the appointed officers above you. Because you swore alliegence to protect our nations against enemies both foreign and domestic. Etc..etc...

There's no need to personalize it. There is a great many people I would not piss on if they were on fire, but then there are a great many others that I would willingly risk my life for.

You have to put this into perspective.

Beloved Shiv
12-20-2004, 12:04 PM
So you are saying that of the 292,131 soldiers killed in action and the 115,187 who died of other causes in World War Two their families received personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

What about the 60,000 odd soldiers killed in Vietnam, did their families also receive personally signed letters from the Secretary of Defence?

You know...I think the Secretary Of Defences time could be used "better" doing other "more important" things...like sorting out armour for trucks and so on.

Mailman

Certainly a good point, but possibly irrelevant based on the situation and the fact that (this is clearly in the article above) ... "Sen. Chuck Hagel, a leading GOP critic of Rumsfeld, called the news about the letters "astounding," and noted that President Bush signs each of his letters to military families."

charlie
12-20-2004, 11:41 PM
Every fallen soldier should get a letter. Those who didn't came back are the real heroes. If you're only putting out the flag, well that means nothing to me. I also would like to take it a step further and compensate those who saw heavy combat and lost a limb and/or having psychological problems.

Skullknight
12-21-2004, 12:43 AM
Are you people mentally retarded or just morons? We aren't talking about every soldier killed in action. This is referring to the letters that Rumsfeld's office say are personally from him with signatures forged by a machine.

Trigger
12-21-2004, 11:01 AM
Does this mean you dip****s wouldn't cash a check because it was 'signed by a machine'?
Get off the political bandwagon.

Trigger
12-21-2004, 12:36 PM
I don't know if this one is politics, Trigger. After all, people have complimented President Bush's personally signing the letters. People are asking, "Hey, why can't Secretary Rumsfeld be more like the President?" ;)
He's probably busy slapping armor on Humvees so the embeds can come back home in one piece and question his humanity. ;)

Zeknix
12-22-2004, 12:18 AM
Great as if Rummy doesn't have anything else to do during the day. I can almost say with certainity, that none of us has "walked a mile" in his shoes. I'm pretty sure his day is full of meetings, confrences, etc. I really hate it when people that don't even do my job start to tell me what to do, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same.

Aerosoul
12-22-2004, 12:42 AM
We all understand he has a hectic job, especially in these times. But it's not like there are hundreds to sign each week. It takes only a few moments for someone to bring the damn letter to Rumsfeld and have him sign it. I really don't think it's much to ask.

As for telling him how to do his job...I'm surprised people really aren't doing that, given the situation.

StarvingStudent47
12-22-2004, 12:48 AM
You know...I think the Secretary Of Defences time could be used "better" doing other "more important" things...like sorting out armour for trucks and so on.

But it seems like he hasn't been fixing those supply problems EITHER. What IS he doing all day every day? Inquiring minds would like to do.

By the way, it takes me approximately 2 seconds to sign my name. Eventually my hand would get tired, but I could sign a couple hundred in a sitting before my hand started to cramp. That would take about seven minutes.

And we're certainly not losing two hundred men per day. This isn't a lot we're asking of him. Give him a stack of letters and a pen.

Aerosoul
12-22-2004, 12:50 AM
You know...I think the Secretary Of Defences time could be used "better" doing other "more important" things...like sorting out armour for trucks and so on.

But it seems like he hasn't been fixing those supply problems EITHER. What IS he doing all day every day? Inquiring minds would like to do.

Yup, yup, yup. Only time he gets someething done that shuld have already been done is when the media gets hold of it.

Example 1: Body Armor
Example 2: Vehiicle Armor (in the process)
Example 3: Signing letters...ehh probably not.

Beloved Shiv
12-23-2004, 08:57 AM
Great as if Rummy doesn't have anything else to do during the day. I can almost say with certainity, that none of us has "walked a mile" in his shoes. I'm pretty sure his day is full of meetings, confrences, etc. I really hate it when people that don't even do my job start to tell me what to do, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same.

Good point, but not particularly relevant. The President is signing the same letters himself. The President has more time on his hands?

Let's set that aside for a moment - the previous secretaries of defense all signed these tragic notices themselves - it's the least you can do in that situation.

Take a walk in the shoes of a family that's lost a son or husband.

Mailman
12-23-2004, 11:07 AM
Its good that Al Presidento signed those letters...but come on...lets be honest here. His time could be used elsewhere doing "more" important things, like resolving supply issues etc.

Id hate the next story to read "Runsfield too busy signing letters to resolve supply issues".

Mailman

sp2c
12-23-2004, 11:09 AM
hey if he's gone through all the trouble to dictate the letters then the least he can do is sign them personally, it just adds 2 seconds to the work he's allready doing.

or he can just admit that he has nothing to do with these letters and stop having them send out in his name

Beloved Shiv
12-23-2004, 11:32 AM
Its good that Al Presidento signed those letters...but come on...lets be honest here. His time could be used elsewhere doing "more" important things, like resolving supply issues etc.

Id hate the next story to read "Runsfield too busy signing letters to resolve supply issues".

Mailman

rofl

Excellent forecast! Regardless of one's opinion on the matter, I think you summed up the situation. Once you're in the public spotlight, get ready to be criticized. 'Well said.

Aerosoul
12-23-2004, 01:09 PM
Doing something mroe important? More important than taking literally 3 seconds to easy a family's grievance? What's more important?

A family lost their child in war, and the SECDEF can't take three seconds to sign the letter himself? How compassionate of him.

Trigger
12-23-2004, 01:28 PM
Doing something mroe important? More important than taking literally 3 seconds to easy a family's grievance? What's more important?

A family lost their child in war, and the SECDEF can't take three seconds to sign the letter himself? How compassionate of him.
You seem to be an expert on the situation.
Would you kindly post the EXACT daily itinerary of the SecDef?
I'd like it broken down by minutes and seconds, so we may more closesly monitor and critique his daily activities. :roll:

Aerosoul
12-23-2004, 02:09 PM
Doing something mroe important? More important than taking literally 3 seconds to easy a family's grievance? What's more important?

A family lost their child in war, and the SECDEF can't take three seconds to sign the letter himself? How compassionate of him.
You seem to be an expert on the situation.
Would you kindly post the EXACT daily itinerary of the SecDef?
I'd like it broken down by minutes and seconds, so we may more closesly monitor and critique his daily activities. :roll:

I'm not trying to say I know everything he does day in and day out. If you could point out where I said that I did know, then show me.

And if America shouldn't voice how we feel about our leaders then I guess we should just all sit by and let them **** everything up. Like I said, it doesn't take much to sign a damn latter.

Mr Gently Benevolent
12-23-2004, 02:51 PM
http://www.danzigercartoons.com/img/2004/dancart2243.jpg

Aerosoul
12-23-2004, 02:54 PM
......lol ?

Saddens me.

I wish I hadn't post so angrily here. I know he's got a job to do. And I am in no position to judge him.

I apologize...